CHRISTIAN GENERAL -- /cg/ -- FREE WILL EDITION

Atheists get btfo

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>tfw were in the last days and well live to se the gaytheists get their comeuppance

Honestly I believe we're about 100-200 years away, because technology won't reach the "required" point until then. I don't think it will happen in our lifetime but it might.

I just feel sorry for them. Throwing away eternal life just so they can be temporarily smug about "muh science"

We're real close

Were there alright. The tech is there, most of its in the hands of the elites. Were already brainwashed as fuck from it anyway. The 2020s would be an accurate estimate. Most biblical scholars sary that it could happen between the 2020s and 2040s. Once ai hits the singularity were gonna be in deep shit.

>FREE WILL EDITION
Arminicucks out. Check these.

>god only let's you into heaven if you're a certain religion

dumbest assumption I've ever read

Stop LARPing as christians.

Guess I need to read up on my Revelation... honestly I'm a bit afraid of delving hardcore in Revelation because there's so much there and so many references to the OT and NT Scripture I get scared

The best argument for free-will comes from Kant. And even then he doesn't make any objective claims about the validity of free-will

Read the missing book of enoch

>Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

>christianity is the correct religion

another dumb assumption

Reminder to fedoras: we was walking on water, while yall pagan and atheist Romans was living in caves.

nationalvanguard.org/2010/10/on-christianity/
youtube.com/watch?v=dnrT7yZEV-g

>assumption
Guess again, bud

Get in here

...

The fact that there are multiple religions proves that religion is fake. If god was real he would've given us one religion to unite us.

You guys better be saving up for the your jizya. It's owed

it's entirely possible that christianity is the correct religion, just as it's possible that islam or hinduism is correct and all others were fake. But any one of these being true would make the god of the universe essentially a trickster in the vein of Hermes, since he doesn't want people to arrive at the correct views through any kind of reasoning or evidence, but rather by taking a blind guess at a set of irrational conditions. I guess this does fit into framework of divine horror story, but I'd much rather believe that the truth isn't veiled in 500 layers of interconnected mythology mixed with falsifiable historical records

To know Jesus is to know God's law. To know God's law is to know the cosmic universal order of morality.

Call it dharma, karma, God's law, or whatever. It's all the same thing. If you understand that this law is within you, and you are within it, then you have found Jesus.

>But here's the thing - we DON'T know that. You take it by faith, because you were probably raised to do so, but this makes you incapable of understanding how irrational this belief is to someone who WASN'T raised to take that by faith, and has to determine the truth value of religions based on believability and not by what you were raised into.
Yeah, I freely admit that I believe it because of faith, and not because of evidence. The thing is, I KNOW that you're not inherently against the idea of believing things without evidence. You probably believe in morality and right and wrong, and all sorts of other things, yet without evidence. I hate to break it to you, but you're just angry with God.

>this is an admission that man should cause progress in ways that god didn't think of, which implies that the world wasn't created perfect and requires man to make it better and different
Show me this in the Bible. I don't know of any Bible verse that said the world was "perfect" the way it was after creation and that economic development and innovation is forbidden. You're just using man's logic to render the word of God to be of none effect. I thought God made the earth for us to dwell in... Technological innovation and economic development is just a natural result of a capitalist system anyway.

>This means that there will be hierarchy and inequality between citizens of heaven. If it's pure bliss anyway, how is it in any way useful to be "called great" ? If you're in a spiritual equivalent of drug-enduced orgasm coma,
The Bible says that those who don't do his commandments will be called "least" in the kingdom of heaven, and vice versa. We'll see what this entails when the day comes, but I'd rather be called great than least.

>If god was real he would've given us one religion to unite us.
He did. Humans consistently set themselves up as false prophets to mislead others but Christianity remains the true faith. Can't blame God for charlatans like Muhammad or L Ron Hubbard, that's just humans being humans.

>no qt trad-wife

"On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you."
John 14:20

Ask questions if you don't understand what I am saying.

>he did

lol no he didn't

You should discern the point of view of a Creator and the point of view of a Saviour. For a Creator, the free-will scenario is the most desired scenario, as we've argued. A Saviour whose purpose is to 'cleanse' its creatures from evil, on the contrary, would be 'obligated' to let only spiritually pure souls in His Kingdom i. e. creatures unable to do wrong, because the essence of Heaven is to be free from evil. So the 'cleansing' is the very core of what is going to happen during Redemption and what will allow us to deserve to be part of Heaven.
Heaven =/= World.

Bumpity

>Objectively false, if your measuring stick for "bless us in this life" has to do with experienced happiness, comfort, power, finances or anything else that humans desire
No, not "objectively false". If we do good works for the Lord we will be blessed.

>This is exactly the same as doing nothing at all, the point is that this makes the "laws" completely moot
No, it doesn't. Because salvation is only one part of the Bible. We should be honoring God on this earth as well, and receive His blessing in this life as well as the next. Just because you don't like the laws and only care about salvation, doesn't mean the rest of us don't care. You're free to not do any works, all the power to ya.

>You keep misunderstanding, I'm not saying that it's explicitly forbidden in the bible, I'm saying that the fact that we feel any kind of responsibility to progress NECESSARILY reinforces the notion that THE WORLD NEEDS TO BE IMPROVED, and that god didn't make it proper in the first place
Okay, so you can't show me anywhere in the Bible where your presumptions are reinforced? I mean, I'd rather sleep in modern bed than in a cave... that's an improvement I really enjoy, lol! Guess God isn't perfect, since he never made me a bed and a PC.

yes he did.
See Religions consistently speak of connecting with the divine source though morality and only morality. To profess Jesus in your hearts is merely to profess that you are taking this understanding seriously and you believe his message that this salvation is possible

>Sends down his son to tell people of the good news
>Warns people not to fall for false prophets
Hey, you were warned buddy. If you fall for bullshit like Islam or Buddhism that's on you being a gullible dumbass, not God

...

Again for is there free will in heaven.

was getting some really interesting answers so want to keep going.

so you believe because the bible told you so, we get it, you're a tool

reminder that its critical to learn hebrew and read the old testament in its original language

I am a tool. A tool of God. You're a tool too, but your handler is the Devil.

Hit me with an invitation for the discord group bois

>I can't refuse any points that have been made
>anyone who disagrees with me is either a libshit or the devil


In the end this is all you can do, stay brainless

I was warned about your type, fool professing himself to be wise.

Best answer I found:

>In heaven we are completely conformed to the image of Christ (Romans 8:28–30). Our sanctification will be finished; we will not even want to sin. Also, in heaven there is no temptation to lure us and no devil to deceive us. Unlike Adam and Eve, we will face no test; our moral state will be secure. No one will get kicked out of heaven. Just as our Lord Jesus has a truly free will yet is without sin, so will we retain a free will yet be without sin. We will be like Him (1 John 3:2).

>I KNOW that you're not inherently against the idea of believing things without evidence.
Absolutely not, ultimately every choice from the most transcendent to the most biologically basic (getting up from bed, eating) is traceable to an overarching principle that CANNOT be raitonally based. Difference is that at this time I believe that transcendental ideal to be godhood itself, rather than submission to a set of rules from jewish mythology that verifiably derive from Phoenician deities and the cult of Cronos. Really the major crossroads is whether or not there is a god to punish us if we ourselves attempt to reach godhood, which I don't think there is, ergo there can be nothing higher or transcendental than godhood.
> I hate to break it to you, but you're just angry with God.
Which god?
Also I'm not angry, I just don't believe.

>I thought God made the earth for us to dwell in
Look, take something like a fake organ. If we can make you a liver that works 20x better than the original and doesn't ever malfunction, should we? Would this not be inherently satanic since we're taking something that god created and making it "better" or "progressing" ?

>We'll see what this entails when the day comes
this is a dodge. If heaven is PURE bliss, then the threat of being called least is of none effect since there isn't supposed to be any pain of inferiority

I don't think he cares about what your rabbi told you

>muh free will
so let me get this straight
your god gave you the free will to do whatever you wanted weather it ruined you or not. but you as a whole want to subjugate women and make us obey under pain of death. In fact, the very idea that someone might raise someone in an environment where they could be allowed to make a mistake in your eyes like, be a faggot, be fed garbage, or support diversity, in your eyes, is abusive and must be punished.


But when your nigger invisible sky wizard runs out on humanity it's called free will. because if he was here, being a proper father, we wouldnt have the opportunity to act like niggers.

Free will is bullshit, God doesn't give a shit about free will.
youtube.com/watch?v=0jyg8_qPNbY

I'm not pretending to be wise, I'm making fun of you retard, now get back to larping fag

>Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the Lord your God.
—Leviticus 26:1–2, King James Bible

Based on this, which would be the most logical action for a strictly observant christian: to take down the statues of Robert E. Lee, or melt them down?

Calling Jesus a rabbi, thinking it's an insult just proves you know nothing. Because He is a rabbi. In fact He's the only one allowed to be called "rabbi".

If nothing is the true is that the truth, if everything is a lie is that a lie?

Yes we want do do all of that. He like any father tries his best to steer us in the right direction but like any delinquent child we ignore it and end up in jail

>would be 'obligated' to let only spiritually pure souls in
Okay, but then the souls in heaven would have to be in a state that would be by definition "not free will" or "pleasure robot"

>If we do good works for the Lord we will be blessed.
You didn't address what your measuring stick is for "blessed".
If it has to do with experienced happiness, comfort, power, finances or anything else that humans desire then we can just point to pious christian negroes in africa that live and die by the bible but still suffer in disease until an early grave, and we can point to people in the west who live extremely comfortable and rewarding lives despite being atheist. Obviously there is no direct causality, unless your metric for "blessed in this life" is something like "closeness to god"(lol)

>No, it doesn't. Because salvation is only one part of the Bible.
It changes the main telos of man from following the law to acknowledging jesus, and the fact the following the law is no longer necessity to get into heaven, this actively discourages people who perhaps would have worked harder TO follow the law just to try and win a spot in heaven, which is incoherent.

>I mean, I'd rather sleep in modern bed than in a cave... that's an improvement I really enjoy, lol!
Absolutely, but this was given to you by man's craftiness, not by god.

you are literally blacked

And a delusional fuckwhit. You would never let any parent act like god yet when god does exactly as a human he is immune. he is all powerful and capable of coming here and guiding us in person.

I like how sensitive you are about that

"Man's craftiness" is from God, you dense fucker.

Maybe, he did give correct views. To those who would exercise their free will and place themselves in those positions to show that it wasn't needed. After all, the power of darkness are in high places in this realm. And there is a mountain of documentation across any country that shows men change things based on their agendas and even in the lower levels of society, the lessers interpret things in a certain way to entertain their lifestyles without even realizing it. How much more so a great snake whose moves are always purposefully calculated?

Wrong, you overfed lesbo. This is the whole fuss we Orthodox have about Orthodoxy, you h as be free will as a human being, but the price to pay for spiritual error is less flexibility AFTER you die.

I know it sounds crazy but you better ponder this as it is given to you.

what is your point? the bible isn't insulated from that process at all.

>incohearant arguement isn't even legible
>doesn't excuse gods abscence in parenthood
>insults my faggotry while posting a giant lesbo.
watch the video if you are just going to string random words together.

Morals can produce verifiable results. The problem is, is that it can't be quantified. Science requires that. Using one's eyes physically can show the net result of good morals versus bad ones, but applying good morals in a hostile environment is like being lost in darkness. It's only really verifiable in a good or neutral environment. Not one ruled by the law of the flesh, which also includes the mind.

wrong. morals can be scientifically verified, you just have to assume an axiom, a goal the morals are supposed to fulfill ahead of time. Morals under scientific terms are not universal and must have a context.

>I thought God made the earth for us to dwell in etc
Sorry if I intrude in your debate...
1. Nowhere in the Bible you'll find that the Lord created the earth for us to dwell in. This is what you'll fin instead:
>Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.” Gen. 1:26
So, at most we can say that God granted dominion on said creatures.
2. This is linked to what I've said before in some way. Finnish user says that men feel the need to improve the world they live in in order to better their lives, therefore the world God has created isn't perfect etc. There's one problem in your line of reasoning: that the perfection of the world should be in line with man's desires and purposes. But this is not the case, as you can easily see that man's egoistic desires aren't supposed to be part of the Will of the One who created this world, therefore the latter could be perfect and not mirror our needs.

>this is a dodge. If heaven is PURE bliss, then the threat of being called least is of none effect since there isn't supposed to be any pain of inferiority

I'm going to bed but I'm just gonna address this argument.

Where in the Bible does it say that there won't be any inferiority in heaven? Uhm... what about God? What about Jesus? Are you inferior to them in Heaven? Also: we know that there will be 24 preachers that will be extra-regarded in heaven for their work on earth, etc.

Most of what you're saying are just presuppositions that have no scriptural basis whatsoever. You've just concocted those "ideas" in your.

The Bible says to "beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ".

Sounds like exactly what you're doing right now.

Good night and I hope you find faith in the end.

Convert to Satanism now!

Look how cute Satan is! You don't want to disappoint her, do you?

youtube.com/watch?v=Ki8NvLLuq6U
HAHAHAHA! Look at your idol fall. You retards all get completely crazy over it.
Ephesians 2:8-9:
"8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast."
>salvation by works BTFO

Matthew 23:9:
"9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven."
>"Pope" translates to "father" - Pope BTFO

1 Timothy 2:5:
"5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;"
>praying "with" saints as a mediator BTFO

1 Peter 3:21:
"21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"
>salvation by water baptism BTFO

Isaiah 42:8:
"8 I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images."
>worshipping Mary BTFO

Matthew 6:7:
"7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking."
>repeating retarded Latin phrases about Mary BTFO

Your local kiddie-fiddler priest might have necked the last drops of wine, but there's enough brimstone for you all.

I'm not going to wear my elemental star upside down just because satan-chan messed up and wore it that way the first day of school and is now trying to pass it off as normal.

Fuck, why is Christ-chan so incredibly qt.
I love her so much.

Real girls are too easy. I chad for half a second and their legs are open. Am I supposed to put my dick in the same whole as 20 other men? It would probably be less gay to put my dick in a man because it would be just one man.

I want that qt Christian-chan waifu. Eternal Christ-chan! Why have you eluded me?

Bump for Salvation

>anyone who comes to me and hates not their father, mother, wife, children, brethren, and sisters, are not my disciples.
Family values btfo.

because she's a slut like most christfags.
she even looks like a dyke.

The cutest chan of then all.

Do you bow down to and worship a statue of Robert E Lee? No? Then you're not breaking the rule, it's only heresy if you worship the idol itself and not God.

I never mentioned anything about the bible. There is only one origin. That is God. The rest are just their own flavor of plagiarism and not giving credit where credit is due. They could not be where they stand if not for God. Both the good and evil, bug that will not stop mankind from taking legit truths of God and perverting it for their own agendas. I never claimed it was insulated. I believe there is a lot of truth in it, but laced with other things. I was thinking more globally. Like even basic tribes. God is real. There is something more than just this life. All religions speak about this, but they're laced with "something", and it's impossible to give it an identity because look at the behavior of those that "believe". Hardly seems conductive of a true believer of an all good being, or maybe such expressions is an explosion of a lifetime of suppression and offenses given.

I don't know because I'm not there for every case, but it seems reasonable that God at some point DID come down. Man can't have an original thought. We really are like big kids. Even those at the top. Everything is taught or learned by a source or through trial and error. Scientists are the physical expression of teetering on the edge of the abyss of madness.

You don't know the outcome, but you will pursue it to validate a belief to yourself or monies. Sometimes at your own life.

>you as a whole want to subjugate women and make us obey under pain of death
tits or gtfo, what awful moaning

>support diversity
I'm an atheist and yes you deserve to be punished 1400's inquisition style

according to you, but this is a rationalization to fit everything to the credit of god. The underlying implication here is that god made the world such that it requires man's craftiness to improve in a way that god either didn't see as proper or couldn't do, and both of these scenarios contradict your view

>Maybe, he did give correct views.
No. Subscribing to jewish mythology that can be traced back to Phoenicia is not an obvious choice at all. If any one of these religions is true in its entirety that would be a cosmic existential joke of the highest degree, an irrational trick to end all tricks

>1. Nowhere in the Bible you'll find that the Lord created the earth for us to dwell in.
It's implicit that the world was intended to be a place to dwell, since where else? Also this doesn't address the fact that this means the world was intentionally made shitty and imperfect and REQUIRES man's judgement for what a better world would be like

>There's one problem in your line of reasoning: that the perfection of the world should be in line with man's desires and purposes.
If it's not, then those guidelines should be in the bible
>But this is not the case, as you can easily see that man's egoistic desires aren't supposed to be part of the Will of the One who created this world, therefore the latter could be perfect and not mirror our needs.
So is a new and improved techno-liver satanic or not? And if not, why not just remake our whole bodies?

Nigger what?

No, the whole point is that you repent your failed faggotry , even if you're not directly responsible for it.
>why should I repent, I 'm a psychosexual victim of incomplete parenting.
Get over it, repent and walk on, you were just unlucky.

They can't be quantified. It's why there is such a huge disconnect with the belief that they are "not universal". They are.

>I believe there is truth in it.
then you believe your universe creating god intentionally put his word to us in a form he knew would be corrupted when he could have easily prevented it.

What? Did you bother reading past the first sentence or is elementary reading beyond your grip?

Maybe if your hand wasn't busy doing a reach around you could pick up a book.

>I'm an athiest
so? that doesn't mean you aren't obligated to provide an arguement if you're going to insinuate mine is lacking.

This. God will forgive you no matter what you do if you are genuine in your plead.

in like 50% of all her drawings her braid isn't even visible so she looks like serenity at the end of, well, serenity.

Why is Christopher on benzos anyway?

>Where in the Bible does it say that there won't be any inferiority in heaven?
You're completely misunderstanding once again.
IF there is meaningful inferiority and superiority in heaven, then this means heaven isn't pure bliss since you suffer pain from being inferior to others.
Now, IF you DON'T feel any pain of inferiority, then there by definition isn't any hierarchy of inferiority since none of it matters to anyone and everyone is in a drug-fueled spirit-coma.
One or the other has to be true, but both contradict biblical doctrine. You have not addressed this.


>Good night and I hope you find faith in the end.
You get too emotional and your responses don't address the point behind any of my posts

Heh?

I have no reason to repent to an abscent father. If I where to be remorseful for anything, it would be to other human beings. since you have no arguement other than "shut up" like the jews of old, i'll be moving onto the next (you)
they can.
you set a goal for the moral, and measure the rule and its effectiveness at providing the desired outcome.

What?

I haven't done anything wrong to him that I'd need to pray for forgiveness for, if anything he should be apologizing to us.

Who are you to judge so someone you know nothing of, calling another a fool is ironic coming from a Christian larp since it says in the scripture you are a fool if you call another a fool.
Stop larping life.
Start living it.

Fugg, this picture was intended.

>Christopher on benzos
no idea who that is. maybe you meant someone else.
cmon you know i'm right.

Apologising for what?

by every possible metric, freedom and enfranchisement for women, faggots, niggers, muzzies has made the collective worse off, and has robbed western civilization of any transcendental options we had since just sustaining these disaster groups and keeping them from destroying everything requires all attention, money, time and effort

>It's implicit that the world was intended to be a place to dwell
It's just your assumption. It could be just a void object of contemplation for God, as well.
>If it's not, then those guidelines should be in the bible.
Again, your opinion. And anyway, man's desires can clash against the principles of the world: what is hybris? What is sin? Exactly that. So we must not mistake our egotic will for what the world is meant to be.
So is a new and improved techno-liver satanic or not?
Holy shit no, it's not satanic.
>why not just remake our whole bodies?
I've got nothing against it, but I bet we'll never be able to build a whole human body from scratch. God knows his art and we're His masterpieces.

are we assuming the god of the bible or deism? because if the former, pretty much everything in the bible is his fault, including original sin. if the latter, just, not being there.

>complete non sequitor
Are you retarded? do you even know what I was arguing?

You gave me your name I gave you mine. I'm a total mess but I'll figure out how to deliver on my promises eventually.

>original sin
Retarded Catholic doctrine.
If God truly loved us, he would give us free will, not make us a slave race with no ability to think.

dunno what the point of this point was, either to larp as god, or if you think I'm on benzos. I dont recall giving my name either. Are you really on drugs?

I have an alcohol problem that I decided to give myself back when I wanted to die.

>retarded catholic doctrine
its part of almost every form of christianity anyway. you cannot be saved except through jesus christ. etc.
catholicism was just that + indulgences ^:)