Could we, with our actual technology survive a BETA invasion without recurring to impracticable TFS?

Could we, with our actual technology survive a BETA invasion without recurring to impracticable TFS?

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This belongs on /m/ /m/ate.
Underrated post.

Only by nuking their hives when they land or ideally before. We might lose lot of territory but we'd be mostly okay.

Otherwise it'd be a very long and incertain battle as most of our technology isn't designed for BETA battles. Fuck laser classes.

>Could we, with our actual technology survive a BETA invasion without recurring to impracticable TFS?
Probably not. But more importantly, if they are suppose to be mining machines, isn't it possible to trace them back to their masters?

I know that the franchise basically have no intention for the Betas to be defeated. That this is basically Sci-Fi zombie apocalypse. But I still am always wondering why no real attempts were made to track down the source.

I guess it would be possible to track their origin. But only thing you can figure out is that they came out of our solar system. There isn't enough data for anything more precise.

No. It would be same as in Muv Luv. BETA might go slower, but it would still be heavily unstoppable.

Actually after MLA humanity is doing much better against BETAs so maybe a victory could be attained someday. As for the source it's probably way too far to be found. After all they can't even catch the things BETA send in space because it'd take too much efforts.

Yes.

How?

Real world physics is on our side.

explain further.

Also real world terrain would negate the range and accuracy of their lasers while we comfortably shell the fuck out of them with long range artillery from out of visual range.

>fast moving jets with electro optical missiles.
There problem solved. Also tungsten/APFSDS can go through almost anything because it creates a high heat reaction in the armor.

They have numbers on their sides, though. It took half of the alliance ammo just to lessen their numbers during the Sadogashima assault. Possibly nukes too, I forgot.

Also
>Weak top armor
Exactly why we have LOAL mode on hellfires for top down attacks. Are the aliens even trying?

>what are Laser class

>what is physics

>Hive bunkered in on Earth
>US generals yawned and sent a Nuclear bunker buster

What? They have 1Trillion laser class guarding it?
>launch a Nuclear bunker Buster in the middle of a storm, snow storm, or sand storm

Sorry to say but that is not realistic, mankind has a large stockpile of weapons and ammo and a frightful capacity to produce tons more once war production kicks in, the only way we could be Zerg rushed by betas is if they could build up their forces without us noticing them

Good job, you made that place inhabitable for decades.

>10+ second fire delays.
Fucking pathetic. Even ye olde AAA cannons had better fire rates.

But each shot is a hit.

>An underground explosion releases a larger fraction of its energy into the ground, compared to a surface burst or air burst explosion at or above the surface, and so can destroy an underground target using a lower explosive yield

Nuclear bunker busters have a penetration of 15-30 meters with most of its explosive damaged compressed beneath the soil. The major concern would simply be the Earthquake, which could be felt for a hundreds of miles depending on kiloton.
Very little radiation and little concern over fallout

if we can't have it no one can

Anti-laser equipment of the mech is a fucking smokescreen.
lmao

Sounds vulnerable to saturation attack with low attitude cruise missiles.

For that you need resources and manpower. We might have enough but there are only 1 billion people left in BETAverse.
Also, you forgot the biggest problem that comes with BETA fighting, it's their numbers. Taking the surface for a few hour isn't that hard, but then reinforcements that were underground come from everywhere, chain of command crumbles and so on. To solve that you need to infiltrate the hive and destroy the reactor which means close combat with herds of enemies. Infantry can't do that, tanks are less fit than TSF for BETA fighting and can't get around the hive as fast.

Only one? That is not the American way, sent at least 20

This is excactly what happened, they built up forces on Mars and then proceeded to send them to the Moon, and from there to Earth.)

First off. It takes only 100 men with common sense to get rid of the entire BETA threat
Second: The fuck would underground system do when we are equip with tools that can read seismic waves to track down earthquakes
Third: We only need to take out the hive

You are going back to their universe, we are talking about a real world scenario.

Tsfs are the least efficient way to do things to be honest. Mounting guns on top of trucks would be better.

The BETA are useless nonces without the Laser-Class, which is physically impossible. Without that one magnificent asspull, the BETA would get wiped out.

Again:explain how it works, then.

This, common sense would be our winning strategy

>Third: We only need to take out the hive
what?
Taking out the BETAs on ground wont cut it because a lot of them are still underground and eventually overwhelm the surface by coming out from everywhere in the front lines. If you want to put an end to this you need to destroy the reactor in the hive. It's filled with dozens of thousands of BETAs.

Meh, like user said, a couple of nuclear bunker Buster's would produce an earthquake that either trap or crush most of them

They're literally digging machines. After 1 or 2 hours, thousands of them pop out of the ground and you haven't achieved anything.

Bunker Nukes and Seismic Monitor, my little friend
Tons of boulders collapsing above you are far more destructive than hellfire missiles.

Add a good dose of cloud seeding to render laser class completely ineffective

What? there are still 1Gingolilion BETAs deep beneath the soil? Heh! Their entire point is the numerical tactics but a tunnel system completely funnels them.
One man with a good tank is enough to take everything down in that tunnel. Just change him with another guy once he felt bored

Yes but 2 hours is a pretty long time to destroy the core and then you achieved victory

>tunnel
These tunnels are huge. You have hundreds of creatures simultaneously coming out of them. Even if you manage to shoot them all (at the same time, and only with your ground equipment), you're not making any progress toward the core and the bodies actually help shielding them. Remember those Destroyer class that can run at 170 km/h and are so tough that 120mm doesn't do shit to them? While you're trying to make a dent on their armor the smaller ones just get around you and fuck you up (they can bit through mechs)

The 2 hours pause is just the delay you get on the ground (and it's not exactly free time since there are likely still BETA popping out/still alive during that time). It doesn't mean the hive is empty. That's just the time you get to try and infiltrate it before the people on ground have to fuck off.

They wanted to get out of the tunnels?
Nice. The heavy atmospheric condition brought by the rain is gagging the laser class. Let a single apache kill them all

Oh, the tank can't kill the Destroyer at front? Target his legs.

this is getting dumber and dumber but at least the reaction pics are okay

I know right?
BETA classes are comedy gold

I wasn't talking about BETAs.

Reminder that a fog alone is enough to render laser war completely defunct

Muv Luv obviously operate on the rule of cool and sci-fi bullshit as well. If it didn't it wouldn't even have TSFs in the first place.
The setting establish that only their mercury bombs are able to create a proper defense against Laser class BETAs, a cloud is nothing to them.

The justification being muh metal clouds.
Not sure how much it holds up in real life, but it doesn't break my suspension of disbelief.

Do the laser classes only shoot down guided missiles and planes or can they shoot at unguided shells too?

They prioritize electronics / manned weapons, don't know about that. They do tear down walls and doors to move around when needed but I don't know about shooting stuff.

I guess laser classes would detect a fast incoming simple object and shoot it because there are no humans or computers around.

Missiles are the size of a man. Shells are the size of a child
Betas can't even hit a mech under a smoke screen cover lol

They shoot down artillery shells like flies.

>only after 1995
Is the Soldier-class the result of using humans, right? Considering that its size is just a bit bigger than human, what kind of monster race did the BETA used as blueprint to design the Fort-class?

120mm cannons don't shoot bullets dumbo the APFSDS rounds melt the armor no matter how hard it is.

Could we, with our actual technology, have sex with BETAs without recurring to impracticable TFS?

there was tentacle rape in the vn

>15 hardness on Mosh scale
A diamond (10) can easily be crushed by a hammer.
Tank plate armor are made up of varying layers of steel, plastic, and ceramic armor to produce various degrees of softness and hardness. Going full hard is no different from going full soft because the harder and object is, the greater the effects of stress would be. With hardness comes brittleness

Also, that 170km/h is just 47m/s. A modern layered tank laughs at shells flying at less than 1,600 m/s

Yes, but it will lead you to a pleasurable death.

Probably.

Hell no

well yeah. Lasers are a pretty dumb weapon that are too susceptible to the elements

Nope

This sort of reminds me of an argument I had with a friend arachnids from the starship trooper universe vs beta

>mohs 15 hardness
doesn't exist. and if it existed we would harvest it from their corpses and strap it onto vehicles.

Can't stop telephone poles hitting them at orbital velocities.

You'd have a hard time taking back the corpses though.

...

>launch a Nuclear bunker Buster in the middle of a storm, snow storm, or sand storm
Not possible. ICBMs can't be fired into particulates, such as hanging dust, sandstorms, ash plumes, or blizzards, because the material hanging in the air will sandblast the descending warhead to scrap before it reaches the appropriate detonation altitude.

This is a critical part of ICBM silo defense, because it means that a silo can't be nuked twice in quick succession thanks to the mushroom cloud, which ensures that the silo can return fire; the missile's speed at launch is comparatively sedate and has no problem climbing through debris.

A fiction where DU rounds don't exist. Wonderful.

>ayys wiped out
>some land is fucked up for some decades
A win in my book

>A modern layered tank laughs at shells flying at less than 1,600 m/s
It doesn't really matter whether an object hits you with 47 m/s or 1600 m/s when it's multiple times your tank's weight

That's not really a tactical win, though. USAs destroyed half of Canada to get rid of a single hive. There are more than 20 and the number only keeps growing if you don't prevent ayys from multiplicating too much.

Although you can find some really useful materials in the hive after capturing it to create nukes on steroids and gravitational fields, so that's not a bad deal.

I don't see the problem. Kill the ayy- worry about other things later.

>losing canada
And nothing of value was lost

That's....Actually pretty interesting, you learn something new every day.

Wasn't that because the BETA were moving toward the US?

Either way, I don't understand why they never just used artillery to clear the surface of laser-class BETAs and then just drop a couple of nukes to clear out each hive in MLA. Laser-class BETAs could never be a tenth as effective as they are in MLA so humanity would probably survive; a big part of why humanity was losing was because they couldn't rely on aerial superiority because laser-class BETAs were fucking stupid.

Is this meant to be impressive? Top kek. Drop bombs, everybody goes home.

Can't develop without land and resources. The war is still ongoing after 30 years and could last a lot longer, so you need to think a bit on the long run.

Well, if it was only nukes it'd be a thing but the kind of bombs they use to destroy hives completely destroy nature on a large scale and for decades. So while it's still a call to be made sometimes, it can't be used for all hives.

>Either way, I don't understand why they never just used artillery to clear the surface of laser-class BETAs and then just drop a couple of nukes to clear out each hive in MLA
Clearing the surface of laser-class BETAs already comes at a big material cost. Actually they can't "clear" the surface, only keep the rate of laser-class low enough for TSFs to be able to operate.
Then, as far as I remember, the nukes aren't that useful against hives. They used some during the Sadogashima attack but it only helps clearing the surface.

space whales or some giant space coral.

Actually you have to get deep into a hive for nukes to be efficient.
>Nukes might have a small offensive role in clearing out hives, but only if you can get deep enough into the hive in the the first place to make it worth while (drift entrances could be just as easily cleared with cheaper air-fuel bombs). Once humanity had the capability to penetrate hives that deep, G-bombs were already available and mass producible.

muvluv.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Unin/FrodoTip:_Nukes?

Or you could just set it off inside an entrance and clear out the tunnels for about ten miles, then set off the next nuke ten miles in.

I thought they cleared the surface during the Sadogashima attack in their initial salvo without nukes. Either way, I'm surprised that humanity never found a way to collapse the hives or something like that. I bet they could've also attached nuclear devices to a bunch of BETAs and let them return to their hives since BETAs are fucking stupid and they won't be able to relay that information to the Original Hive since their hive would be destroyed.

Nukes seem to be pretty weak in MLA too, they used a bunch of them inside the Original Hive and they didn't even collapse one of the passageways

It wouldn't help all that much.

>Maybe nukes could be used to dig to hive reactors!? 1 MT in hard rock - 100 Ft crater, and that's if it's adequately plugged. A constrained detonation also takes longer to cool, reducing rate of excavation further, unless your nukes are lava-proof.

They used S11 which are supposedly about as strong as tactical nukes. But it was only two TSFs doing that, and they were in the OG hive.

They did block an entrance using half of their S11 and missiles, but it wasn't shown.

Humanity would win easily because Laser class is fucking stupid and wouldn't work

i wonder who's behind this post

I've never read Muv Luv. Can these things resist sarin gas?

Easily. They can live on Mars, on the moon, and cross the sea by foot.

BETA are pure magic and physically impossible in almost every aspect of their existence. Either their existence means humanity can develop their own magical bullshit to counter them (and no, not just mechs) or they cease to exist all at once the moment they try to exist in our universe due to being impossible.

If they can use bullshit lasers, why not just make bullshit lasers to use ourselves? I mean, given that they would clearly work

So, let's do some science:

You have a creature that is 4 times the linear dimensions of an elephant that can charge at 7 times the speed of a charging elephant. It doesn't look like it has significantly greater biomechanical efficiency, (in fact, it looks worse, but let's be generous), and energy consumption for moving creatures is basically driving force times speed, and the force needed to keep a creature moving is roughly proportional to its mass, which in this case will be at least 64 times that of an elephant (more, given its heavy armour). So, we have 448 times the energy consumption of an elephant, or roughly 1.5MW. Pictured: 1.5MW of portable industrial cooling capacity. We don't need to kill the Destroyer-class, we just let them boil in their own waste heat.

Because their usage of bullshit lasers requires G-Elements, which is used to explain why Betas are so bullshit.Humans eventually make bullshit lasers of their own at the end, but they only have a limited amount of G-Elements to use

But they're aliens, What if they have that shit all figured out already?

Reading comprehension much? Tunnels are made of air, not rock.

>using logic against the BETA
and this is where you fail

Thought you meant for digging tunnels.
They already nuke the insides of the hives with their suicide devices but it's not enough, so unless you're talking hundreds of nukes it won't do much.

Couldn't you just capture some laser betas and use whatever G elements they have in their bodies? Hell, you could probably cut out the middleman and find a way to force the laser betas to fire, like press something into the back of their eyeballs or something. Strap them on a mech, and you're good to go

yeah their nukes look to be about 4kt, which is 4x weaker than hiroshima, not to mention bombs like the minuteman and tsar bomba, which would probably vaporize the entire hive

The laser-classes are practically magic, I wouldn't spend effort too much effort to explain things that the author didn't justify well enough with normal common sense.

Just release Ebola. Whats stopping us from using biological/radiological and chemical weapons?

>nuke betas
>harvest g-elements
>create bullshit
>??????
>profit

While capturing betas is possible and has been done in the series (although at a big cost), they don't friendly fire ever, and researches on their bodies hasn't given anything other than the fact they're carbon-based lifeforms.
G elements are inside the hive, not inside their bodies.