When a communist state fails (eg: Soviet Union) Leftists say:

When a communist state fails (eg: Soviet Union) Leftists say:
>lol that wasn't REAL communism
When a communist state succeeds (eg: China) right-wingers say:
>lol that's not REAL communism
What is "REAL communism", Sup Forums? Has it ever been tried?

The USSR was superior to 2017 America

China isn't communist. When it was it failed horribly and millions died.

tinamen sqare

Real communism is no government and no class system. that is why the USSR wasn't real communism.
China isn't communism anymore because they all starved. The Chinese only succeeded when they flipped to a more capitalistic view

American education is simply pathetic. Socialism has not even been tried once in human history, let alone Communism.
>lol that wasn't REAL communism
???
It was never meant to be Communism to begin. China and Russia were trying to develope themselves in a captalist manner just to prepare for the revolution. In a communist society, there is no money, no class, and you can take whatever you want according to your needs.

I just can't fathom how you people can be so fucking stupid to not even know what Communism means.

It is if the US was communist. An impossible task.

>What is "REAL communism

Real communism / Authoritarian Stateism
means that the state holds monopoly and decides how to distribute the means of production - wealth - to the population.

it doesnt work, most states are allready corrupt, why would you want to give them more power?

Real marxism is forgotten and destroyed by cultural marxism, but right-wing populism is as close to actual marxism as you come these days because it represents the will of the people / populism.

China had a free market from 1978 to 2012. They had 34 consecutive years of 10%+ nominal gdp growth. After 2012 their (((economy))) could only be held up by a house of cards gdp projection based on government spending. They either go full stalin in the next 10 years or go.back to a shithole.

according to these retards, there's supposed to be a period of socialism before pure stateless egalitarianism just sorta happens

but socialism is part of the roadmap, and the countries in the USSR always referred to themselves as "Actual Existing Socialism"

if the roadmap always fails and the "real communism" never materializes, then what's the difference between that and real communism failing?

China is unironically not real communism.

Yes and the Chinese economy became heavily privatized during the early 2000s

Socialism is worker ownership of the means of production

Communism is a stateless,classless,moneyless socialist society. Does the USSR/China follow any of these two definitions?

China was communist. Millions died. They realised communism was stupid. Implemented some capitalistic policies. Conditions improved as a result.

In 2012 their government stepped in on commerce. They realized foreign investments had more power than they did in their own country.

and in a sense, going full market would get closer and closer to the egalitarian "full communist" utopia than socialism does

the technological advances through market economics has already brought previously unattainable luxuries into the projects and trailer parks. the real distinction between the dirt poor and the super rich will become more and more cultural rather than economic. full communism was supposed to be "classless" but it's even better if people can have everything they need but be who they want to be.

At least read the wikipedia page on communism.

>according to these retards
>retards
>anarcho-capitalist flag
>literal meme ideology for mentally challenged

the beauty part is that they didn't go full market, and things got better but they're nowhere near the first world.

when we say capitalism and communism we talk like it's a binary choice. it's a spectrum and every step in the market direction is good and every step in the socialist direction is bad.

the market isn't penicilin. if you go only half way it doesn't backfire and turn to shit. it's just not as good as if you went further.

L E A F
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Yeah if you read Marx you would know he said that same thing. There is a reason he said Communism is supposed to happen in rich capitalist societies and not dirt poor agrarian countries.

if everything will get automated then there would be no other choice than communism

when everyone even the ruling elite lives as well as the disabled that is when you have true communism

I agree, but we living in real world.
Country without government can't resist against other countryes with centralised governments and army.this mean, real communism is impossible idealistic construction.

>At least read the wikipedia page on communism.
so you're a wikipedia communist

that explains your backwards and retarded views.
What's the matter? Europe not fun enough to destroy? You want more faggot?

>no bread lines, money is used to buy things
>companies arent owned by the state
>regulations on business are full of loopholes
>wages are determined by the market value of the good produced
i wonder why communism is working so well

here we go

of course it is, in many senses
in many ways their rich, corporations are extensions of the regime
and rich that doesnt cooperate gets killed

neither mao nor lenin advocated for a total ban on private property

makes you think

also
>google: min wage is $3 usd an hour at the highest
>at the highest
>highest
>$350 usd by month compared to us $1000-$1200
>liberia has $6 an hour
LIBERIA, WHICH IS FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES A FAILED STATE, HAS DOUBLE THE HIGHEST MINIMUM WAGE OF ANY PROVINCE IN CHINA
>its 11 yuan or $1.66 per hour at the lowest

>When a communist state succeeds
That never happend and can not happend. You are just retarded

No. Its about as "communist" as its former dynasties or the British empire.
You are just talking retarded shit now.

China's biggest successes are as follows:
1. Having an authoritarian state that can make long term economic plans
2. Having a large, ever increasing flood of foreign investment
3. Having poor human rights. As soon as cheap labour-mass industrial production becomes unviable, factories will shut down left right and centre in China.

Which of these things are communism? Authoritarianism? Foreign investment? Or poor workers rights?

China still maintains some Communist aspects, such as massive state ownership of land and niche industries (like tobacco, arms and oil).

All 'communist' states either tried in earnest, or simply used it as a ruse to consolidate power for themselves. The Soviet Union came closer to being a full Communist state with full state ownership, manual adjustment of prices and heavy wealth redistribution. This is probably the closest any state got to 'pure' or 'true' communism. China started moving away from this with Deng Xiaoping's economic reforms. The Chinese Communist Party is too embarrassed to admit that economic communism wasn't working, and that they would much prefer an authoritarian mixed market economy.

this too