How is a drawing like this achieved? how did the artist drew those lines and shades so well? is this computer generated...

how is a drawing like this achieved? how did the artist drew those lines and shades so well? is this computer generated? or just a photo with the outlines been scanned.

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It looks like CG to me.

Probably everything except character coloring is done with a computer. The line art would be hand drawn, although possibly rotoscoped given the level of detail.

Most of these "super realistic" mangas are actually made through tracing.
These artists do not actually have the skill to pull out amazing realism so they trace either photos or 3D models.

>These artists do not actually have the skill
Or time.

The point is most readers are misled to the idea that the artist is some wizard who can produce realistic drawings super fast, readers such as OP for example.

That explains why Gantz and his new manga is so fucking ugly.

Even more reason why Akira is so fucking fantastic.

Take a photo and slap a black and white filter over it, then draw in the rest of your scene on top.

And then we have people like Tsutomu Nihei who studied architecture.

Mangakas have this weird obsession with deadlines, this why modern mangas just are traced photos, just because it´s easy.

B-but it's stylistic.

dailymotion.com/video/x3vtvdy

Here is Asano Inio's process

Inu Yashiki looked interesting but after seeing this post I've lost all interest in reading it.

It's garbage. The author is a complete hack.

I hate that sort of sterile art. Give me unrealistic, emotive art like pic related every time.

Do they breath through their dicks?

>[most working people] have this weird obsession with deadlines
Fixed.

>modern mangas just are traced photos
Oh, please, read more. And stop saying "mangas" and "mangakas."

I've developed bakiholm syndrome as far goes the gantz guy

>all those times I tried to ink realistic trees or mountains as a kid like in muh japanese mangos
>they were all filtered photos

It's fine. Photography is art. Manga is art. Why not mix both?

The managaka of Tsugumomo has lots of videos on his channel that show how he makes his stuff:
youtube.com/watch?v=yqqj07WnQqs
youtube.com/watch?v=PAUKymZigxQ

...

The majority of anime backgrounds are photos too. I don't see what's the big deal.

I'm not against it, just thinking of the wasted effort by all the tricked kids out there who try and fail to copy the visuals.

>how is a drawing like this achieved?
If you look really closely at the textures it looks like a mix of photo filter and hand drawn.

Look closely at the electronics and you see a really high level of detail. Lots of small details in buttons and even subtle changes in gradients of tone on the shading. The Background is probably a photo with a few tweeks to make it look more like a drawing kinda like
But there are a lot of drawn elements in the background. Look at the pad of paper and a lot of the garbage around the room. They are pretty flat in their shading. They stand out from the rest of the BG. These are all probably drawn because the room photo wasn't as cluttered as the artist wanted. Same goes for the character. Obviously drawn because he shows such a different level of detail compared to the rest of the room. (also he's in a simple enough pose that it would be a waste of time to look up a photo ref. Any half decent artist could draw him sitting from behind like that).

>If you look really closely at the textures it looks like a mix of photo filter and hand drawn.
Yeah that's very common

I disagree, doesn't looks like photo filter at all. On the other hand there is post probably some 3d modelisation and render work at first, then other details added by hand. Still, this panel looks really fucking good, work was put into it.

Hey now, at least he has a nice ass.

If anything the fact that those 3d mosels are so undetailed shows he's got the skill to back it up and just use it to set properly the scene and scale.

It's a chick.

That's a trace though, not a straight filter

Some wageslave had to sit there and copy all those details by hand

>It's a chick.
Dropped without even picking up

this is a great video, thanks user

A job for Rustle

delete this

Don't mention Nihei in the same breath as people like Oku or Asano. Yes, Oku and Asano are idiots and incompetent writers - but at least they stick to their own principles as mangaka.

Nihei has to be inspired by something to draw those.

Still, it is a next level of inspiration.

Well, he has a degree in architecture, so there is a completely different background.

Then scan it below the Nyquist resolution?

Nihei has been drawing entirely digital since Sidonia, and a fair percentage of that stuff is computer-made.

So what?

So don't credit him for things he hasn't accomplished. It's essentially the same as the Asano pages. His originality and value in design and concept are worthy of praise, but the actual pages are not.

Many ways to do it OP, and from working on art deadlines here and there, and with friends in the industry aswell I can tell you you do whatever you can to speed up the process.

In general a manga artist will use 3D and photos in order to create BGs like this. This isn't to say they don't draw in elements. Alot of the filth around the room is purely drawn but but fridge in the corner/microwave and television are probably 3d objects just rendered/drawn over.

To add, it's not impossible to achieve a drawing like this without such tools, it's just ridiculously complicated process if accuracy is your wish, and you'll be setting up perspective grids, looking up material refs, and messing with lighting for a good day in order to fully achieve. The more you do it the faster you get, but it's still hard.

I always like the quote by Michelangelo, "If you knew how much work went into it, you wouldn't call it genius". Murata and alot of Manga artist put a ridiculous amount of time and effort into their craft. Most good artist do. If you put equal amount of time and effort into the same craft you would be able to achieve their skill, or something of note atleast.

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE user?!

>doesn't looks like photo filter at all. On the other hand there is post probably some 3d modelisation

I mean, there isn't a way for us to know 100% without seeing the artist work on a page. But the reason I suspect Photo ref over 3D modeling is the difference in the level of detail in a lot of the objects in the room.

Looking in the top left corner for example you see a white box on top of the shelf and a microwave underneath. The microwave has crazy levels of detail on it. Everything from the linework on the buttons to the tone looks entirely different than the white box or the boxes around the white box. The boxes look like they were added after the microwave. Now if you're modeling the electronics, it takes seconds more to toss in the shapes for those other boxes, so why not just do that all in one pass? why add the other boxes and clutter later? If it's a photo ref then you have to add the clutter.

Not that it really matters one way or the other. Modeling and photo ref/filter are nearly the same in the hands of a skilled artist.

Are you retarded? Just using digital is cheating now?

He didnt actually draw it. Look below the bubble.

That's why I'm saying it's done with a 3d render for the most part. It just doesn't looks like something you could get out of a photo. Would also make sense that way because most of the lines would have been rendered too, explains how they manage to get so much precision.

...

Are you capable of reading?

Even some of his work in Blame is computer-generated. I love Blame, but that does not change the fact that he did not draw all of it. He's become more and more reliant on computer-generation as his works have proceeded. That is what I despise.

Wait a second. Are you implying that doing CG manga isn't as difficult as drawing?
Just because he already has models doesn't mean he doesn't have to change facial structure in every frame, reposition every character and give them an appropiate pose an dlightning, change the toning of the picture to match the artstyle he is going for etc.

>Are you implying that doing CG manga isn't as difficult as drawing?
Mhmm. Yeah, yeah, no, yeah. Totally.

You need in account the fact the models needs to be created retard.

If it looks good there is nothing wrong with using them. No rules, just tools.

wtf i hate seinen manga now

Is this how people justify things like Berserk 2016? That it took effort, therefore it must be good?

Also I quoted that post but I don't think the 3d blends very well in Inuyashiki.

No, Berserk 2016 looks like hot garbage. And not just because of the 3d. Could have looked way better if they just traced over the 3d.

I'm defending the use of 3d in itself, but only when it looks good, don't misunderstand.

If Backgrounds are this fucking easy to make, I really can't understand memestars like Kubo and the like not doing it.

>I'm defending the use of 3d in itself, but only when it looks good, don't misunderstand.
Sure, I'll agree to that. But I've never seen an instance of it looking particularly good. There's always an oblique flaw which betrays my attention - even in scenes which I rather enjoy, such as Satou vs the SAT in Ajin's [poor] adaptation. In that case, one such flaw is the bizarre switch from 8 frames-per-second to 24, or whatever higher number it is, and then back again.

In Asano or Oku's or Hanazawa Kengo's work, there's always a clear misrepresentation of perspective whenever photography is used. Even if/when I ignore that aspect so that I can enjoy the work, it's still distinctly present.

My point, really, is that there hasn't been a good enough example of usage of 3D/CG in anime or manga yet so as to justify its proliferation. Re: Nihei, I simply have a massive vendetta against him for deliberately betraying his audience; I tend to use the computer-generation fact as just a cheap way to effect insult at him.

Shit manga, right?

It's quite simple, it's just because a good use of 3d is when you can't notice it.

The OP panel seems to have some use of 3d but it looks great, what do you think of that?

>tfw Atsushi Kaneko uses an iPad and free drawing software to make all of this manga and you're still a shit artist with a million excuses

It's probably a combination of deadlines and Kubo not wanting to put in the extra effort of adding backgrounds or having a gofer assistant make them.

That looks like a photo with filters/screen tones added over it.

> But I've never seen an instance of it looking particularly good.

Go check Yoshikazu's videos process.
youtube.com/watch?v=PAUKymZigxQ
That's what I'm talking about when saying good use of 3d.

actualy it isn't even just tracing

pure tracing would be getting a blank piece fopaper , putting it over teh iage, and drawing with your own hand.

these images don't even do that, they just use sophisticated filters to create teh backgrounds from photos, adjust teh colours and some of teh borders on a computer screen, then draw the characters on top.

The main problem I have with this page is how the lines gets way too small for the second and third panels for the character. It just doesn't feels natural, especially with the thicker ones on the first. The background doesn't looks bad at all on the other end.

Depends. Some redraws parts, others doesn't.

What an effective means of both rejecting the proposal and complimenting your favourite artist(s) at the same time.

I'm probably the least neutral human capable of answering, but yes. Sidonia is a story about a boy who is the reincarnation of the greatest mecha pilot ever and already has the skills; and then it devolves into a intersex, interspecies harem with MISUNDERSTANDINGS.

>What an effective means of both rejecting the proposal

What, is there anything wrong with what I said? You're using examples where it's noticeable. And I'm saying you're just using the bad ones.

>It's essentially the same as the Asano pages.

Totallly false

inio asano just takes a photos of someone's room or whatever and slaps some filters on it

nihei draws on a tablet so he can make adjustments more easily but he still DRAWS it
He can't just go find space ship architecture to take a photo of then put it through soe filters and call it a background

Saying "hurr he doesn't use only pen and paper , he uses a tablet so he does the same thing as asano" is retarded

kill yourself you stupid fucking retard

I've seen it. I'm still very aware that it's flawed - the light doesn't change the color/shading of the two characters on the left. If we're following the 'architecture' of the perspective of the image, those two aren't actually facing the two walking towards them. The balcony on the left onto which light is shining isn't darkened, even though it should be dark. So on, and so forth.

So Sakamoto Shinichi is the best when it comes to actual drawings?

the only parts he won't draw will be the kind of window dressing that is too precise to be done by hand, e.g. fonts

this is not really any different to how manga artists before computers would use print-setting techniques to put in text or say bar codes in a picture

it is totally incomparable to just lfting a background from a photo and not even tracing it or using it as a reference but putting black and white filters on it.

That's not even a problem linked to 3d at all. And my point was that you can't notice that there was some use of 3d.

It's traced, He looked at reference photo and drew over it.

That's some maximum nitpicking

his layouts are often a very gaudy , not that effective.

each element you could cal wel drawn but how he decides to put them on the page, I don't think is very good

it's like if you told a bunch of artists "draw someone in this exact, sightly awkward position" with a picture of what to reproduce closely sakamoto would be one of the best at doing that

but if you made the instructions more broad and told a bunch of arists "draw a page depicting the following scene" I think other artists would know what angle to choose, what position for the characters, etc. "WHAT" to draw better than shinichi who is mediocre in terms of "WHAT" but pretty good in terms of "HOW"

It took him whole day to make a detailed model of rectangular room. I respect the effort but at the same time: what's the fucking point?

Would it really be harder for him to just draw a goddamn perspective grid and then render it the same way he already did? At least the photos traces bring out certain ammount of detail that is extremely hard and tedious to achieve by hand but he just sat there and did just that except in top of extremely low poly midel.

I mean, I could understand if it was something done by his assistants but it's just fucking redundant.

Well, take in account he then used it for the whole chapter, it wasn't for one page.

Well, yeah I guess you are right.

>3D
i think that's just gantz

i know others buy reference books specifically made for manga backgrounds
the most interesting thing about this video for me is that the japanese watch foyle's war

And then people shit on Oshimi Shuzo for his shading and shit, at least he's drawing the fucking thing.

>He's become more and more reliant on computer-generation as his works have proceeded. That is what I despise.
I'll never understand this argument. As long as pages continue to look good, there's no issue with the tools used.

If you have a problem with pages turning out low-quality, then your complaint should be centered around the artist's lack of skill with CG tools. You only seem to be complaining that CG tools were used at all.

>Smoking WHILE drawing
Fuck off Oda

But you can literally watch Murata draw this shit from scratch?

Murata doesn't works on the backgrounds.

dropped this shit right after the island arc because of this. glad I never came back to it

It's fixed in the volume.

This was also likely traced, albeit from a photo taken in real life or a collage of buildings assembled by the artist.

In the commercial art industry, be it comics or illustration, tracing of photos or other materials is a common time-saving technique and generally not looked down upon so long as it is not overused or infringes on another artist.

It's not to say the artist is incapable of drawing these things free hand, but that they could not manage it in the time constraints they have to work within.

>My point, really, is that there hasn't been a good enough example of usage of 3D/CG in anime or manga yet so as to justify its proliferation.

You have to consider the cost too, not just the quality. Let's say the output is merely tolerable in visual quality, the show still might not get made if someone actually would have to draw it by hand. I assume this is especially true for mecha shows where accurately drawing complex mechanical objects with lots of battle scenes would expensive. So I think it's currently used as a cost-saving measure because it's simply not at the point where it's a tool for creative freedom that can be used in high-value productions. As technology progresses it'll also become more useful in movie productions.

Scratch that actually. He's doing just that for some of his panels.

youtube.com/watch?v=yqqj07WnQqs

>mangas

>Fuck off Oda
MY GUY

I am genuinely curious how your picture relates to your statement about tracing.

Do you really think anyone short of retarded amateurs actually draws over those crude ass models?

You know he also puts more details and he draws his own characters. See the video where he shows how he works with the photos. And he takes his own pictures.

I don't know if you're still here, but can you post some examples of this "computer generation" stuff you're talking about in Nihei's work? I don't understand what you mean by that.

No they're not, the mangaka aren't claiming shit. They're still creating comics, there's no such rule that doing everything by hand makes you any more of an artist.

It's a single point perspective drawing, it's pretty awesome and obviously require experience and knowledge but in terms of technical skill it's nothing outstanding with the simple perspective it has.

People underestimate how difficult this is to make.