I first became aware of this rare black position years ago on the Mark Levin show when he had on Stephen A Smith to talk about conservativism and why it makes more sense for the black community to hold those values. Since then I've listened to Jesse Peterson on and off via his channel on YouTube, but just recently started picking up on Larry Elder. Started with running into this clip:
When non-blacks point out the things they do, they get called names and have attempts to discredit them via the fact they aren't black, yet when black men state the same facts and point out the same fallacies of black culture and the welfare state destroying the black family they get shut down too. It's a rather frustrating situation.
Now with Sup Forums being a place that doesn't racially discriminate, how do y'all feel about these "redpilled" black men?
It's really mind boggling that the response to sound, well spoken realities like this is "he's an uncle tom."
Alexander Martin
I think you would do well to forget about imagined conversations with leftists and liberals. Most of the time they have not themselves struggled with difficult problems, but installed whatever kindergarten "just be nice" + socialism was around during their education years. Forget about 'using' based black men to try and get your point across to them. If they won't listen then that's that, you go your way. Elder and Sowell are both entry level "redpills" however you look at it, they can still be on TV. Better go beyond.
David Martinez
Where I get hung up on is their "entry level" voices on TV and in media isn't opening eyes or fostering minds to go looking for themselves, but instead getting ignored or shrugged off. Here in the US the black community is in shambles and is a serious parasite on our economy. These men are offering statistics and valid points as to why it is stuck in a fatherless, welfare dependant situation but instead the mainstream response seems to be just give them more. Liberal or conservative it seems like.
Luke Price
Yes indeed. Your education system and media has been rigged to make voices like this all but impossible these days. You've found a couple of old gems on youtube but almost nobody knows them anymore, certainly not young kids. Conservatives (republicans) have cucked out hard against the democrats and since the 60s most ground has been lost. It's frustrating but the conclusion is that the education/media complex is completely useless and probably actively harmful in many ways. The welfare state since FDR has been defended and glorified so much that it's disgusting. You won't get out from under that with some based black men, and trying to wooo the left tends to be dangerous. Some people might be ready for the truth and they'll find it in time.
Camden Bailey
Jesus fucking christ this black man just
DISMANTLED SOCIAL LIBERALISM
Angel Miller
Oh of course. This is generations old now. I was just thinking that even if these men and views got way more attention it and policy started being reeled back to put blacks back on a more stable, self sustaining path it would get worse before it got better. 2-3 generations of blacks living off the government dole means they sure as shit wouldn't change views or convictions overnight, but it would be a start. It has to start somewhere. And the reason I use these men in this thread is logically it seems better for the message to come from within than a bunch of politicians and "privilaged" people telling them what is good for them. Stories like Ben Carson who grew up in the slums, accelled at school, and became a surgeon to make a better life should be celebrated by these people. It's just such a shame the fix seems so obvious and simple to me, but among the masses it gets muddied up by almost a century of the mentality that government has to fix everything.
Ayden Myers
>the reason I use these men in this thread is logically it seems better for the message to come from within than a bunch of politicians and "privilaged" people telling them what is good for them. You don't come here often do you? It's probably better to pass these vids around to your friends and gauge reactions, then move on to stronger stuff. Btw it will not be as simple as rolling back the welfare state. The genius of all those New Deal constructions is that they make everyone dependent on the state. That way you can't change anything without doing some serious damage to citizens. Sad times.
Kevin Taylor
I lurk here very often. It's 5AM on the east coast of the US and I'm bored. Typically I get lost in my head around this time and with nothing to do, I decided to take a stab at Sup Forums and see if I could find a decent discussion at best, and at worst just get a chain of amusing memes and names thrown at me.
I remember learning in school the grand genius of FDR and the New Deal. How man oh man he saved the US from the Great Depression. Only later on in life to learn the truths. And it seems like with each passing year more and more opinions change on what he did. He put the GREAT in Great Depression and all that. A younger, way more libertarian me liked to daydream of a USA that dismantles a lot of these socialist programs and gets back to basics, but now I'm older I know most aren't going away. But I do find myself hoping things start tilting the other way at least. The dropping of the corporate tax rate, for instance, was something I never thought would ever happen, but it did. I started 2017 very pessimistic with Trump as our President, but man did the current administration and congress change my outlook by the end of last year.
Brody Cruz
I see. I think the really hard red pill is losing faith in the democratic system altogether. Americans tend to be extremely loyal and faithful to their constitutional republic. It's also your country's history's event horizon I suppose. All this stuff is tiring and frustrating because the left has been rolling out perpetual (democratic) revolution for decades now. You tried to defend yourselves with separation of powers, limited government, etc etc, and it was all for naught. I think you're wise to abandon faith in limited government by constitution only, but as for >now I'm older I know most aren't going away this is probably not true because socialist plans are not just expensive and silly, they are extremely destructive. What happened to the ghettos can happen to society at large, especially as more and more of the third world is imported. So in that sense something will HAVE to change, but mostly because reality catches up and the ideological games of politics get put on ice.
Justin Gomez
>I dont care about being called racist! >WOW LOOK AT THIS BASED BLACK GUY THAT DOESN'T THINK WE'RE RACIST
Mason King
Niggers evolved out of African tribal hierarchies and are therefore naturally 'right-wing', in the philosophical meaning of that phrase. Unfortunately, in the west their instincts have been degraded - mostly by liberal white and jewish domestication - more so than actual white racism. Infact, a black-backlash will damage white liberalism far more so than white identitarianism - in the same way Islam threatens liberalism.
Cooper Rivera
One reason it's common for conservatives to stick to our Constitution and the design of our republic is because, by its very design, it outlines a government of non-governance. The whole idea was to set up a system so inefficient and mangled that a belief and policy would have to be REALLY REALLY amazing to make it all the way through. Where we are falling apart is in the circumvention of it. Executive orders and our Supreme Court pretty much legislating through the Judicial Branch. Ever heard of Calvin Cooliage? I would say his presidency embodies the essence of Americanism and what our founding fathers intended.
As for rising above the idea that governing bodies are needed, I don't think I can ever get to that level. I'm in the "necessary evil" camp. And like I mentioned with our Constitution, I want it to be as small as possible while being able to protect the liberty and freedom of its citizens.
Lincoln Campbell
The 20th especially is a sad sequence of government overreach and retarded supreme court precedence. Including the two world wars pretty much all powers were captured by the state, which ironically then dispersed them into a bureaucratic swamp and left congress/president with comparatively little power. I think I understand how your country was initially set up, and certainly I understand the motivations of the founding fathers, but any of them would have admitted even 100 years ago that it had failed. Hell, even 50 years after the founding it became an obvious tendency.
>rising above the idea that governing bodies are needed I'm not sure you understood me right, because this is not what I'm advocating for at all. The failure of democracy does not mean that nothing can be done, just that "self-governance" and "the will of the people" are taken a little less seriously. This would only be in a mythological sense though, because you don't live in a real democracy anyway, and neither do I. Both our countries are nominally democratic but are in reality run by a massive organization without much oversight. Anyway we still need such a structure, but what I mean is simply that no constitution can defend against democracy. It's impossible by definition. That's the red pill.
Liam Nelson
Yeah it's something I thought too. If say somehow tomorrow the black community woke up and realized the welfare state crushed them into this perpetual state of needing it to survive the Democrat party would implode. A huge portion of their platform would just dissolve.
Ian Gomez
Based black men are the reason I still believe civic nationalism is possible.
Asher Campbell
You mean something akin to how Socialism always leads to corruption? I think I can make sense of that. I've always loosely held a belief that democracy or something close to it where the wisdom of a people can be detrimental to what is best public policy. Where a trend or poisoned pill can infest a citizenship and set into motion politicians catching wind and using it as a platform to then gain power and govern from it.
Jaxon Reed
Reminder that Jesse Lee Peterson revealed the true christcuck that Pastor Anderson is:
The people who built your democracy honestly believed that getting citizens involved in governing would make them wiser and responsible. I think we can all agree that this is not actually what happened, and that education/media is what controls public opinion. By now public opinion doesn't even matter all that much, at least in the details. All that's required is unwavering loyalty to democracy and its charitable efforts in the world. For a constitutional republican like yourself it should be very easy to imagine the dangers of democracy. Far from being some mechanism that makes people "dutiful" or whatever, it's more like degeneracy and thievery incarnate. Anybody can siphon power from the state by changing people's minds and shilling for something. Your founding fathers were positively obsessed with all the ways democracy fucks things up. Your faith in constitutions is similar, a sort of statement about a few principles that MUST be enshrined as almost holy. And surprise surprise all those principles are about curtailing the power of democracy, and they all failed. Scary!
Robert Adams
I think that's the most frustrating thing of all. Watching over the years how the Constitution gets ignored and the very thing it was written to protect us from becomes a reality. Politicians like Rand Paul, who probably could have been right at home in the first Continental Congress, try their best to remind their peers and the American people, but only get seen as sticks in the mud. It's a really interesting and complicated place to be standing too; to be in a position of power and advocate for taking power from the very office/assembly he stands.
All that aside I think I got a much better understanding with what you are saying.
Brayden Morris
don't get so fascinated at the idea of black men who aren't liberal, if anything it should be expected for them to be conservative
Parker Taylor
That was kind of the angle I was shooting for, yeah. And yet the majority of the community buys into the liberal policies that keep them shackled. And when these guys speak to the truths and realities of the situation they get labeled sell outs and uncle toms.
Angel Butler
Rand Paul might have some great ideas about minimal government, but he doesn't stand a fighting chance in the democratic bonanzo of the fed handing out gibs and their minions talking about liberals being the essence of human kindness. Like you said, he was trying to take power away from some very powerful people, and that's not the least of his problems. I think obama was inevitable.
Dylan Young
they probably wouldn't be thought as uncle toms so much if whites didn't put right wing blacks on such a pedestal they're what should be normal, not what should be a goal
