>What makes a flat Tax bad You just pointed it out, it's unfair to tax someone who is poor at the same rate as someone who is rich because the marginal utility of his money is much higher than is the case for the richfag.
Xavier Thomas
Treating everyone fairly and stimulating the economy is bad because of poor people and their feelings.
Jacob Morgan
>implying that's a lot
In this shithole i earned 22k USD last year and just in taxes (city, state and national ones) i had to pay 12k USD not counting VAT that is 27% for all services (landline telephone, water, electricity and gas) and 21% on every other article (except electronics that's 10,5% but they have another tax of that amounts to 50%).
Jose Long
Money becomes exponentially more important to living standards the poorer you are. Above a certain line, more money doesn't really improve living standards in a meaningful way. That's why there is usually a line for federal/state tax even in a flat tax system. Look at russia.
Ryder Wilson
well your stupid utopia won't work without it
Christopher Nguyen
If people are naturally charitable then why do we need to compel charity by government force? If people aren't charitable then why would we want to help the poor?
Andrew Murphy
Poor people spend 90-100% of their income on necessities while the rich only a small share while the rest is disposable income. Making them pay more won't reduce their quality of life significantly.
>b-but they will dodge taxes instead >implying they don't do it anyway
Luke Green
Because the richer someone is, the less taxes affect them. Generally speaking, money has a lot of diminishing returns for a person's quality of life.
Once you reach a certain threshold, there's little you can do to improve your quality of life without the costs becoming exorbitant and most of the things you do won't nessecarily be better, they'll just seem better. Things like branded clothes that are made at the same factories as non-branded by cost five times as much.
David Brooks
Okay, but I don't get why the proposed one is any bad.
The proposed one would reduce both my tax and the ones paid by the rich.
In a long term perspective, it's unfair. I concede it. But since I already pay 23% of my gross income, I don't see why 15% could be negative for me... Except I don't believe the party who proposed it will ever have the courage to do so.
Camden Wilson
There is no such thing as utopia.
Carter Sanders
Nothing If you go out and you use the same roads bridges, the same police and the same army to protect you, and you pay 10% and the other guy pays 20% this makes the system unfair
BTW really wealthy people don't pay taxes at all because the tax code has gorrilion pages of regulations and they pay to difference to lawyers and other scammers to reduce their effective tax payment
Owen Adams
>doesn't really improve living standards in a meaningful way t. her majesty the mind reader
Nolan Smith
It's really easy to dehumanize the rich.
Juan Sullivan
Agreed. Utopia is a word crafted by those in power to prevent people from thinking their dreams can be achieved
Gavin Gomez
The problem with a flat tax is that it doesn't raise enough revenue to cover expenses.
Jace Kelly
Jacquerie when?
Btw it is also really easy to dehumanize the poor ones just because they didn't have access to wealth and education.
Actually poor people are more often dehumanized than the rich ones.. See the Refugees in Europe. Everyone hates them...
What I dislike of the current left wing is that they cannot admit things can go really bad. I disagree with the idea Refugees are saints or poor chaps by definition and I disagree we have to help them a priori.
But I would never go to the extent of claiming a negro is less human than I am.
Anthony Brown
>But I would never go to the extent of claiming a negro is less human than I am Spaghetti education
Carson Green
Best form of taxation, outside of no tax.
Leo Gray
is ok germany will pay
Kayden Ortiz
checked, but you're a niggering shitwit kys
Christopher Gray
With an 8k income you don't pay taxes, retard.
Ayden Gonzalez
>Btw it is also really easy to dehumanize the poor ones just because they didn't have access to wealth and education. We aren't stealing from the poor. Not giving money to someone isn't theft.
Ethan Nelson
Fair or not, a flat tax would be great for the economy and would lower the prices of goods like food and toilet paper. Usually when the economy does good even the poor benefit. But nope let's just increase the minimum wage to $15 so a burger costs $10 and you have to wipe your ass on a Bible right?
Cameron Ramirez
youtube.com/watch?v=2hPAJ8Pvaec Every people has a max of 3000 euros to take from taxes for each person in its family, so, I have 10k, I should pay 1.5k but I will pay 0.
Elijah Brooks
A $15 minimum wage is a big >FUCK YOU to hardworking families, and anyone living off a $15/hr job isn't saving money anyway.
Jose Jenkins
Anarcho Capitalism is hardly a utopia. There will be lots of poor people living in shanty towns. As it should be.
Colton Martinez
The obvious answer is that 15% of a poor person's income is worth a lot more to them than 15% is worth to a rich person.
That being said, I still prefer a flat tax.
Chase Anderson
U racist muhfuggin cracka, whitey bettah pay my ass $15 for entry level jobs othawise I'm staying on welfare shieet.
Benjamin Martinez
I feel to see how it's a fuck you if it's restricted to areas with high expenses like NYC. If it's nationwide that's a problem.
Jeremiah Kelly
I fail*
Dominic Anderson
I don't get it, are you for a flat tax because you don't want to wipe your ass on Bibles or are you a black man living on welfare?
Carson Smith
This is not what I wrote, retard. Go back to school and learn English again.
Jordan Murphy
I can see that, since the high cost of living in NYC and similar cities is due to more complex forces than the costs to keep people employed. I don't want to get into that discussion, but even so, raising the minimum wage dramatically year after year isn't the answer even in NYC.
Robert King
>Close fields >not a theft, which now people would advertise as the birth of contemporary society
Basically there was a lot of free land in the UK. People started putting fences around it and the richest had access to better lawyer who made their case at local courts.
Result: a lot of gentry gets the land. Most poor fags don't. Yet it was public land that got occupied. Governments saw some personal gains, so they let people get away with such theft of public property, which should have been employed for the public good.
Now, the grandsons of those very thieves go around lecturing the world on the importance of private property.
Aiden Morris
You don't need to "compel charity" by government force, but you do need a military and a police force to defend against outside threats, and to punish inside offenders. The military and police don't have time to work, they need to spend all their time training for war and policing society, therefore you need to support them with tax money.
If you don't have a military you will be destroyed by enemies, if you don't have police you will collapse under crime and evil deeds.
Ryder Nguyen
That explains tax funded military and police but not tax funded welfare.
Jaxson Barnes
I am using sarcasm to emulate humor... Yes I am for the flat tax nationwide and Herman Cain was a genius.
Jackson Garcia
I totally agree that's why i hate socialism.
Sebastian Murphy
I think there's an argument for certain non-military applications of socialism. Fire department also makes sense to me, if they were privatised I foresee a strange increase in arson cases.
Jack Brooks
Yes but we could view it this way: Fire is an enemy that threatens society, therefore Firefighters are really military men who specialize in fighting that particular enemy (fire). In this definition they are part of the military in the sense that they protect the people from hurt.
Brody Davis
You could apply that kind of logic to many things. Illness is an enemy that threatens society therefore nationalised healthcare. Poverty is an enemy therefore welfare etc etc.
What I was saying is that if you start a firefighting business and there aren't enough fires you need to go start some to make money, that's a bad idea.
Jace Long
It works great.
t. Hungary 15% flat tax
Zachary Brooks
>has to pay 23% income tax on the WHOLE amount (NOT 15k-8k) Jesus Christ you guys are fucked. Even here in Cuckistan the tax rate is 0% up to 11k, then 15% up to 40k and only 20.5% after that, which only gets applied on your income between 59k to 94k. Last year I think my fed tax averaged out to about 17% or something. You are getting jewed hardcore to pay for niggers
Mason Adams
plus welfare, plus mandatory state pension, plus ridiculous vat, plus the shit your employer has to pay on top of the shit that gets deducted by your salary...
Aiden Butler
Monte Carlo sampling
Isaiah Murphy
I don't think you can compare fire with illness and poverty because they are very different. Poverty is due to poor decision making by the person afflicted by it, or it could actually be a personal choice to be poor, for spiritual reasons. So being poor is not always bad in fact during the middle ages it was seen as impressive to be poor (in certain contexts).
Illness is one thing but a person can be injured because of his own faults. It's not the governments responsibility to compensate for your own faulty decisions. For example if you get drunk and fall over and hurt your ankle then that was your own fault, you shouldn't have been drunk in the first place and the state shouldn't heal your ankle.
Fire is special because it spreads so for example if one retarded citizen decided to start a fire then his bad decision can lead to the fire multiplying, consuming other (innocent) citizens houses. The citizen who started the fire should be punished and the firefighters should put out the fire.
Also one could argue that nationalised healthcare should exist to treat outbreaks of viruses and epidemics because those affect everyone. But i would not argue for nationalised healthcare for stuff that the citizen himself could have prevented such as obesity.
Michael Reyes
>disease can't spread from person to person
Jonathan Rivera
Fatness cant.
Joseph Johnson
that's the sad part, the welfare state obviously has to end but a flat tax is a good start
Nathan Watson
>Monte Carlo sampling What? It's not random sampling it applies to everyone here. Are you drinking Ivan?
Joshua Miller
This, diminishing marginal utility is the key to understanding why flat tax is retarded.
Carson Phillips
nice quads where do yo live?
Hunter White
Welfare is about crime prevention. You make sure people don't have to commit crimes for their survival and thus only criminals your society is left with are antisocial assholes and migrants who refuse to assimilate into the host culture.
I didn't say that though? I argued that diseases that spread should be treated by the government but personal injuries should not because they are due to the persons own fault.
Basically i see the nationalised healthcare as part of the military, who's duty it is to protect the people. A disease that spreads, such as the black death, can be seen as an enemy. But the following is important: The disease or virus has a cause. And the government's role should, maybe, be to fight against the cause, not the symptom. This is very interesting because when the black plague was devastating Europe, it was common to state that the plague was a "punishment from God". The conclusion many drew was that they should pray to God the plague would go away. If we remember that the Church ruled during this time, this can be seen as the rulers (priests) attempting to combat the cause of the plague.
Jose Kelly
Tax should be 8% flat for every single person. No tax credits. No reductions or additions. Just 8%.
And if the government can't operate on that 8% they have to just deal with it.
Xavier Thompson
A more reasonable way of crime prevention would be to kill criminals. The military or police could perform this function. It's just those pesky human rights that get in the way, kek.
Noah Thomas
So you have the government steal to prevent the poor from stealing themselves? Sounds rational.
Ryder Rivera
and neither can physical trauma, but it's retarded to say certain ilness' can't spread from person to person like fire
Leo Martin
How have you picked this random number out of the sky?
Nathan Ortiz
I was only pretending to be stupid. It was funnier in my head but then I realized 4am is around the time my sense of humor plummets.
I wish more people were reasonable like you, who understand that even if it eats into cost of living, it's fairer in the end.
Flat tax is the most fair tax. Nothing wrong with it.
Xavier Allen
Maybe because at all the parties of 100 he has ever been to, it took only 8 people to run them. Joking, but that sort of logic would apply perfectly toward assessing the cost of government. Of course it's not linear but it's a start.
Ian Jenkins
Pretty much minarchism
Carson Price
Very interesting way of looking at it, but my question is why not 7% or 9%, not 8% or 25%.
Blake Reyes
There's literally nothing wrong with a flat tax. All counterarguments are flawed appeals to fairness, which is a subjective concept. Someone taking the other side can just as well argue it's unfair higher earners pay more money in absolute terms for the same level of public services.
So what does a flat tax, given reasonable levels of taxation (20-30%), actually do? Highest earners lose incentive to delocalize their activites and assets to tax havens, and you end up getting that 30% of their money instead of 0%. The argument people will evade taxes anyway does not hold up to scrutiny. Opportunity cost is everything, and everyone has a different tolerance level for how much of their income they're willing to part with before going through the drudgery of cheating the system. In countries where high earners are currently taxed 50%+, a flat tax of 30% or below would be seen as such a respite psychologically, few people would even bother dodging taxes.
Asher Price
In the USA, the wealthy are all for a flat income tax. Most of the money they earn in a year isn't considered "income" so it wouldn't be taxed at all. You should probably check whether this proposed tax applies to all earnings regardless of how they are earned, or whether it just applies to wages (how not-so-wealthy people earn money).
Charles Nguyen
He didnt.
Andrew Jones
Are you implying that Australian education teaches you that niggers are lesser beings? Doubtful coming from cuckville.
Ayden Barnes
Sounds like a thing Governments have done pretty much from day 1 of Civilization in one form or another. In times of need such as war or famine rulers have always socialized property to ensure maximum survival rate for maximum of their subjects. It's how they keep themselves in power in times of crisis. Democracy is a constant crisis since unlike the kings of times past our leaders are in a constant fight for their political survival if not even actual survival in some 3.rd world shitholes.
And once you make it so that individual soldiers and policemen have the power to act as a prosecutor, judge, jury and the executioner what exactly is preventing him to just declare you as a criminal and kill you and confiscate your property for himself?
Aaron Carter
From my experience, most people who are for flat income taxes are also for low taxation.
I've never heard of anyone advocating a flat 25% tax rate, for example.
Cooper Cruz
>the latest iPhone is a necessity most poor people in non-shitholes wouldn't be poor if they were good with money
Jace Clark
>once you make it so that individual soldiers and policemen have the power to act as a prosecutor, judge, jury and the executioner
I think that's a bad idea. In my opinion though, we should remove the "prison" system, and instead distribute only 3 types of punishment: >fines >exile >death penalty This seems to me the best justice system. Prisoners would be kept only until their trial. Death penalty would be given for most crimes (theft, battery, murder and such.) Imagine the money saved if we didn't need prisons. And imagine the crime reduction, if we simply removed criminal elements forever.
Tyler Bell
Thats a nice claim
Grayson Wood
>15% flat tax
That would mean a HUGE tax reduction. Which is fine if they also cut spending.
But what would actually happen: - Italian government keeps spending 40% of GDP every year - Only gets 15% so deficit is 25% of GDP. - After 8 years debt rises by 200% of GDP. - Investors no longer want to lend money to Italy. - Italians: OMG YOU NAZI GERMANS FUCKING CUNTS GIBS ME FREE MONEYS!!!!! WHITEY IS RACIST!!!! WE WON'T PAY DENBTS NAZI SCUMBAGS!!!! GIBS US MONEY GIIIIIBBBSSS!!!!!
Joshua Nelson
Yes, low taxation, as in zero taxes paid on most of a wealthy person's income. All the flat tax proposals I've seen have not taxed income from interest, dividends, capital gains, or investments. They only apply the flat tax to wages. Which means wealthy people will be paying near zero percent income taxe rates in many cases.
Lincoln Barnes
>See the Refugees in Europe. Everyone hates them... because rapists and pedos are the easiest group to dehumanize
Charles Williams
>See the Refugees in Europe. Everyone hates them... don't equate poorfag to refugees.poorfags are less likely to rape murder and steal from you
Kayden Perez
> most people who are for flat income taxes are also for low taxation >never heard of anyone advocating a flat 25% tax rate, for example 25% is still high seeI could pull in 10 million a year and still only pay 20.5%, the solution is to cut welfare and not import niggers that almost always get paid for pay tax payers for most of their lives
Carter Jenkins
>All the flat tax proposals I've seen have not taxed income from interest, dividends, capital gains, or investments. Can you give me an example? I've never heard of anything like this.
Leo Thomas
This. Big surprise when you gangrape an entire city that people hate you.
Grayson Wood
The only problem I see with the flat tax is the same thing wrong with the VAT.
every time something changes hands it gets taxed. Therefore the largest businesses that can produce a product start to end only pay the flat tax once. Small businesses that do not have the ability to produce a product from raw materials to consumer product are taxed every time it changes hands meaning the product is exponentially more expensive for many small companies to produce compared to large monopolies regardless of how efficient or innovative the small companies are.
This is a problem with income tax in general, but the only way it works at all is to add in deductions and loopholes and all the other garbage.
tl;dr -- income tax is a scam, its design ensures the rich stay rich and the poor cant compete.
Carson Cooper
How do you suppose gov:t spending can be lowered then?
Isaac Butler
not intentionally but the token abo does the trick
Ethan Gutierrez
>be latvian >bruto pay is 1000 EUR >neto pay is 700 EUR >30% tax Not to mention that food and clothes are more expensive than in Germany all while housing and rent is the same but Zimbabwe tier.
Sebastian Hernandez
Meanwhile your politicans give millions away to foreign countries, the EU and immigrants in aid, tax and benefits. Sure is great living in a democracy.
Samuel Turner
Fuck off commie bastard, and go back crawling to Boldrini, Grasso and the ius soli.
A flat tax is exactly what Italy needs. Less fiscal oppression, freedom to keep what you gain.
James Martin
What Italy needs is to go back in time and lower government spending and forbidding itself from taking loans.
Jeremiah Torres
>lower government spending desu most nations need to do that
Joshua Green
But why do that when you can take loans n shieet? not like inflation is tax rite? But yeah true. Democracies are retarded at economics, and the constitutions should in the future have a economic amendment, saying that you can't give away free money if it doesn't benefit the country or some basic shit. Im tired of giving millions in "aid" to african warlords... aren't you? >inb4 swiss
Isaiah Gutierrez
We have up to 45% tax for upper class, ~35% tax combined. Do you have to pay VAT too? We have 19% tax on all goods. I really hate paying taxes because I know where they land. This country is a laughing stock.
Cooper Morris
A flat tax is a scam. 25% of 100 is still less than 25% of 200 and the poor don't even pay taxes to begin with, they receive from taxation so they WANT more taxation.
Taxation is theft, all taxation is bad.
Chase Brown
The state can't take from the poor, because they don't have anything and they can't take as much as the state wants from the rich, because the rich can defend their assets. Therefore the state fleeces the middle-class. The state can't fleece the middle-class as easily with a flat tax, therefore it won't happen. This arguments only applies to proponents of big state and social welfare state.
Easton Lewis
>they receive from taxation so they WANT more taxation Can you tell me exactly what do I receive from taxation? Namely, a list of things.
Joshua Cooper
Yeah dude, kickstarter and voluntarily paying for things you want and being able to opt out when it isn't being delivered? That'll never work! Clearly we need a man with a gun to force people to do the right thing, that's why the Soviet Union, Venezuela, Cuba and North Korea are the most successful countries on the planet.
Also jews ending up at the top of these types of countries is clearly a coincidence.
