Sup Forumsnons will pretend that they let this get passed of as character development

>Sup Forumsnons will pretend that they let this get passed of as character development.

Moeblob to sexy, don't see the problem here.

It's 愛よ, I ain't gotta explain shit

Homura is still moe

Homu simply ascended to a higher level of moe, one you simply can not understand. There is nothing wrong here.

How do I understand this next level?

You need ai

Rebellion was a mistake and you all know it.

It's better than cutting you hair and call it character development

You're clearly not /homu/ here.

You KNOW it.

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Rebellion was just a half-assed effort of milking something that should have ended with the anime.

Suffering

>from doormat to devil

The series was a dismal deus ex machina and rebellion saved the series.

It was not a deus ex machina. How Madoka was able to become a god and why she did it was explained in the story and connected directly to the plot and character development.

She was perfect in the TV anime. Rebellion ruined her.

>able to become a god

My argument. Thank you.

That isn't the extent of what deus ex machina means. You either don't know what the term means or are deliberately misusing it.

>user before Sup Forums
>user after Sup Forums

Here's what I know: The arc of the series is based on Homura's conflict. Madoka interrupts this arc and invalidates it before it can reach it's conclusion. In doing so the entire narrative up to that point is voided to switch the story into a deus ex machina in which Madoka simply wishes herself into godhood and abruptly ends the arc before it's absolute resolution. Trust me, I've written 80 thousand words over this deus ex machina.

Did KyoAnus animate that scene?

>The arc of the series is based on Homura's conflict
Except Homura's conflict is completely out of focus until episode 10. There are hints and foreshadowing from the beginning, however, the main focus is on Madoka and Sayaka. Madoka's arc is drawn out over the course of the entire series, while Sayaka's is more prominent until it concludes with her death. Homura remains on the sidelines, even antagonistic at times, but her arc is only the most important in the overarching plot, not the narrative of the series. While you are correct on Homura's struggle being invalidated by Madoka's wish and she's denied her reason to exist, that's exactly where Rebellion comes into play, and Homura achieves victory in extremely Pyrrhic form.

You don't know what deus ex machina means so I can only assume all of those words were bullshit
It has nothing to do with the overall quality of the narrative and everything to do with whether the event was foreshadowed

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>unexpected
Kyubey brings up the notion of Madoka becoming god in episode 2.
>contrived
It's specifically explained how Madoka is so powerful.

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Never mind it being brought up, one of the bad futures is literally her destroying the planet.

time to post in the homu thread

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The expectation in the scene is that Homura completes the fight to the death with Walpurgisnacht. She doesn't.

That's how contrived Madoka is: that in defiance of the universe's rules of the balance of blessings and curses should even out to zero for absolutely no explicable reason Madoka is uber+1.

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>That's how contrived Madoka is: that in defiance of the universe's rules of the balance of blessings and curses

you've completely misunderstood the basic framework of the show's rules so I don't know why you're trying to critique it. The whole basis of the incubator's system rests on there being a deficiency of magic to go around - and a consequent surplus of curses. That asymmetry is what makes it such a valuable reaction for the incubators.

>expectation in the scene is that Homura completes the fight to the death with Walpurgisnacht.
Why would anyone expect that when Homura did absolutely nothing that cycle that would make her more likely to win than the previous hundreds of times she tried?

post rare homus itt

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Because that's the fulfillment of the character's arc. Homura concludes that to grant her wish she must defeat Walpurgisnacht. It is therefore expected that Homura and Walpurgisnacht will enter into a no quarter battle from which either one the other or neither will emerge victorious. Before this arc can be completed Madoka interrupts the narrative and literally wishes it all away.

The deficiency is constantly made up for by the creation of new magical girls they all meet the same demise, and their wishes and curses cancel out leaving them with nothing. Madoka breaks this internal rule of the universe for no discernible reason other than being Madoka uber+1.

If my waifu ended up becoming a god and a state of non-existence, I'd put a stop to that shit too. I don't care who the fuck is benefited by her not existing, I certainly wouldn't be. And since my waifu isn't real, well, guess I've got something I need to do now.

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Homu a qt.

I'd be okay spending the rest of eternity in valhalla with my waifu.

>The deficiency is constantly made up for by the creation of new magical girls they all meet the same demise

No, it isn't. QB explicitly says that the largest release of energy comes from the transformation of a gem into a grief seed, and that the rate at which magic is restored through the use of grief seeds is less than the magic that is expended to kill a witch. This is literally the whole reason witchification is inevitable in the first place, and why there were always be more curses in the world than magical girls to deal with them.

Madoka never breaks an "internal rule of the universe" - her wish was actualized because Homura's time-travelling had accreted an enormous amount of magical potential around Madoka because magical potential is directly determined by depth of emotion (and Homura's time-traveling made Madoka's contract-making wish imbued with the emotion of every loop she underwent, thereby literally transcending time and space.)

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>world than magical girls to deal with them.

Which is exactly why the whole world is doomed without anyone knowing it. If the constant supply of magical girls stops, say if the incubators move on then the witches will destroy the world and human kind 'goes back into caves.' again the wishes and curses cancel and the universe should reset to its baseline.

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>If the constant supply of magical girls stops,

It won't stop, you're conflating entropy with the magical girl/curse ratio. QB can create as many magical girls as he can manage - the point is that they need curses to fuel their magic, there are not enough curses to do that because the transfer rate from grief seed - soulgem is ineffecient, and so the deficit of magical girls compared to extant witches will never be fixed. This is the fundamental conceit of the show and the engine of the plot and the reason why Walpurgisnacht is impossible to beat (given only a single temporal dimension, anyway). Please rewatch it!

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According to Wraith Arc Madoka was an incompetent bitch and Homura is a 110% improvement in all conceivable ways.

There also are multiple Homuras now according to it and the Concept Movie.

Good franchise.

Fuck off, shitbrain.

no thanks.

Then post Madoka related things. Not off topic tumblr nonsense.

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Thus with Madoka's amplification you'd expect her powers to annihilate the world, as it does in the final episode but madoka has the +1 boost that she shouldn't have according to the universe's own internal logic

I haven't mentioned entropy. Defeating Entropy is just the motivation of QB to make the contracts. I'm dealing strictly with the bindings of the contract. Magical girls have positive emotional energy and negative emotional energy and the incubators take as much of it as they can in order to combat entropy and they get the biggest energy boost in the conversion from positive (Magical girl) to negative (Witch), so the incubators are always taking up energy, no doubt, my argument is not about that, I am addressing only the stipulations of the contract, and Sayaka's realization that the wish creates an equal curse.

go fuck yourself my dude.

Moemura is a non-character.

Homura's character is great if you leave out moeblob homu that comes out of nowhere and had little to no characterization

Her transition from obsessed Time traveler to devil yuri god is actually good though.

How in the hell is she supposed to gain Mami points?

Maybe if I was doing something wrong, but I'm not.

Yeah me too but the hellish limbo madoka is in ain't valhalla.

Just a reminder that Madoka never loved Homura.
Especially the stupid evil at end of Rebellion.

>Sayaka's realization that the wish creates an equal curse.

It's not equal though, the curse produced by witchification is greater than the magical energy created at the moment when a magical girl is created. This is why magical girls are always outgunned by Walpurgisnacht: as an amalgamation of all extant curses, there will never be an equal amount of magic (from a single universe) to combat it, since it is a product of a reaction that produces more energy than its reactants.

the good boy is doing nothing wrong and I don't give a shit. kill yourself.

And of course you just can't fucking stop yourself, because you're a subhuman shithead.
You have to ruin every single fucking thread.

This is your life. You have literally nothing in other than trying to harass people on Sup Forums.

>i can shitpost because im special
No.

So I think I might have actually been conflating number of witches with quantity of curses: the point is that there's an asymmetry of curse-energy and magical-girl energy because the production of the former is definitionally greater.

no, I'm "shitposting" because I don't give a fuck about your tastes in posting. Go hang yourself.

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I don't think it's a question of which is more, its more like magical girl energy is constantly being burned up so it can't cover everything. It is impossible for 100% of a magical girls energy to combat curses even tho the balance is still 1:1 wishes and curses because of the maintenance needs of magical girls you can't stop a significant amount of curses from leaking out. So the rules of the universe are that more magical girls allow the human race to keep up with the witches, but each individual magical girl is always falling behind the curve.

It's completely implausible for Homura to outright defeat Walpurgisnacht. A mutual kill might be plausible, but that would leave Madoka's arc unresolved, unless she wished to revive Homura, which would subsequently mandate a reset ending. There is no truly universally satisfying ending in this case; Madoka must (inadvertently and unintentionally) trample over Homura in order to actualize herself. Rebellion is the antithesis of this, except this time, the action is completely deliberate.

Madoka may have obliterated her own despair by paradoxing out her own witch, but that despair was, in fact, conserved-- it was shifted upon Homura, who ended up manifesting as a witch in a world where witches should not be, before despair was transmuted into love, and the devil was born.

>durrr everything is about personal taste
No again.
It also really is pathetic how obsessed you are with having the last word.

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Rebellion demonstrably has artistic integrity because it pisses off people like you.

The whole movie is an in-depth character study that made people mad by showing exactly who Homura was and how she got there. If it had been pure pandering there'd be way fewer ruffled feathers.

>It also really is pathetic how obsessed you are with having the last word.

He says in the post where he once again attempts to get the last word. I'd call you clever if you weren't so transparently trying to save face at this point. Can you honestly tell me why you haven't killed yourself at this point in your life?

I wish your life wasn't so pathetic, that way you wouldn't be so obsessed with shitposting on this site.

Rebellion Made Homu's character actually good.
Her going from moeblob to badass in the anime was quite lackluster, but her development in rebellion was nothing short of great.

No, as you've been told many times before, you are the only one obsessed with getting the last word. Trying to reason with you and make you realize what you're doing is wrong is not trying to get the last word.

The TV series ending is a deus ex machina, it suddenly and in a contrived manner removes the central conflict. Rebellion's ending is a twist: it suddenly and in a cleverly forshadowed manner created a whole new conflict.

I say that Rebellion saved Madoka. I just hope the concept film doesn't ruin it all.

>I don't think it's a question of which is more, its more like magical girl energy is constantly being burned up so it can't cover everything.

Well it's canonically both. QB explains that the greatest release of magical energy is when a gem turns to a seed, and it's also explained that the transfer rate of magic between a seed to a gem is inefficient, in comparison to the preternaturally efficient reaction of soulgem->grief seed.

A mutual kill with Walpurgisnacht is impossible for the reason I explained above. The whole point of the lore in Madoka is to write tragedy into the fabric of the universe: only by stepping outside of it is Homura able to subvert the natural disadvantage magical girls are placed at.

>No, as you've been told many times before, you are the only one obsessed with getting the last word

Ahaha, ok bud. Please enjoy the rest of my posts!

would you give a traitor headpats?

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Do you think of you don't quote the other half of that post that no one will see how it explains why you are wrong?

And your in ironic use of exclamation points just outs you are new shit cancer so much.

But it was character development, and pretty well done too considering it was set up in the TV series instead of Homura spontaneously wanting Madoka pussy all of a sudden in the movie.

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It's not a deus ex machina, it's set up. In fact it's the whole point. Madoka's wish is the most prominent plot point brought up in the first episode. The entire show is about Madoka learning when, where, and how to use that wish to resolve a problem with the order of the universe. It can't be contrived when every episode is about the mechanics of that wish and what Madoka learns as a person to be able to make that wish.

Homura turning things around in Rebellion is more of a deus ex machina, because while it's set up thematically, hijacking Madoka's godhood isn't mechanically established or explained.

>Do you think of you don't quote the other half of that post that no one will see how it explains why you are wrong?

>you are the only one obsessed with getting the last word.

>it suddenly and in a contrived manner removes the central conflict
See
It's not sudden if it's brought up as an actual plot point, and it's not contrived if the mechanism is explained. Homura killing Walpurgisnacht would be deus ex machina.
Moreover, the series ending was exactly what permitted Rebellion to exist.

>hijacking Madoka's godhood isn't mechanically established or explained.

it actually is, please read this thread, where I explain it:

this thread needs more homus

that's the good stuff

>hijacking Madoka's godhood isn't mechanically established or explained
It can, however, be inferred. Homura is intimately and uniquely tied to Madoka and the same strings of fate that granted Madoka her power as the result of her timeloops. It's why naked lesbian space hugs happened. It's why Homura is the only one who remembers her. In essence, it's a magical tug-of-war between Madoka and Homura.

this shoujo sharks you for all your money: what do you do

Madoka threads are really autistic.

As I have said no amount of set up can contradict two facts about the narrative: 1) the wish interrupts Homura's arc at it's most crucial moment of resolution and prevents her resolution from occurring 2) Madoka's aditionall power boost that lets her be a magical girl even after she has become a witch is a violation of the universe's own internal logic.

Interruption, contrivance forced resolution. Deus Ex machina, and a bad one. Want to see a good Deus Ex Machina? End of Evangelion. It waits until after all the other plot threads have been resolved, pays off on continuously building stakes that unit-01 had demonstrated through the whole series, went all the way in the execution department and felt truly powerful, godly, redirected the focus of the narrative onto the characters and gave all of them a completed story arc, though confusing one at that.

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