Romanian Origins

>tfw Vlad Tepes was a bozgor
What would Romanians do if they found out that Romania was founded by a Hungarian Turk, and that the coat of arms of this dynasty, of which Vlad the Impaler belonged to, used the Hungarian arpad-stripes and the szekely symbols and colours in its coat of arms?
Daco-Roman? More like Hunno-Roman

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Romanian_words_of_possible_Dacian_origin
britannica.com/place/Bulgaria/The-first-Bulgarian-empire
britannica.com/topic/empire-political-science
en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/tsar
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsar
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

WE MONGOLS NAO!!!

Embrace your roots chinaman

restauration of glorious mongol empire when?

You guys still butthurt about that triathlon or something?

might work as a theory - but only as that. The origin of the house of Basarab is still pretty much disputed by contemporary historians; moreover, the flag that you showed is from the "Draculesti" branch of the family (which Vlad originated from), while the other branch was called "Danesti". The original flag of the dynasty, before it branched out, was pic related.

>The Cuman or Pecheneg origin of the name is, however, only a conjecture and a matter of dispute among historians. Contemporaries constantly identified Basarab as a Vlach.[5] Charles I of Hungary speaks of him as Bazarab infidelis Olacus noster ("Bazarab, our treacherous Vlach").

If you take into consideration that Vlad's father, who was an influential member in the "Order of the Dragon" (that had massive Hungarian influence at the time), had a very good relationship with the people from Transylvania, it wouldn't be a far fetched idea that he adopted some of their symbols in his own coat of arms - at least that's how I see it. Nonetheless, most sources (both Romanian and Hungarian) classify the Basarab line as being of "Vlach" origin. It wasn't until the 19th and 20th century that historians started searching for the actual origin of the house, and given the lack of sources from that period, it's very hard to actually pinpoint their origin.

It's basically the same as me saying that King Corvinus of Hungary was of Vlach origin, because his father (Iancu de Hunedoara/Hunyadi) is mentioned by Hungarian sources as being a Vlach himself.

>John Hunyadi (Hungarian: Hunyadi János, Romanian: Ioan de Hunedoara; c. 1406 – 11 August 1456) was a leading Hungarian military and political figure in Central and Southeastern Europe during the 15th century. According to most contemporary sources, he was the son of a noble family of Romanian ancestry.

>15th-century chroniclers—Johannes de Thurocz and Antonio Bonfini—write that Voyk had moved from Wallachia to Hungary upon King Sigismund's initiative.

(cont)

>Two 15th-century chroniclers—Johannes de Thurocz and Antonio Bonfini—write that Voyk had moved from Wallachia to Hungary upon King Sigismund's initiative.[3][7] László Makkai, Malcolm Hebron, Pál Engel and other scholars accept the two chroniclers' report of the Wallachian origin of John Hunyadi's father.

Yet you don't see me sperging out that one of the most legendary Hungarian Kings was actually Romanian, don't you?

>t. Szabó Lajos

Vlad Tepes was also raped when he was in the Ottoman Court. That explains all the fucked up things he did and why he was so easily set off over the smallest things.

>[citation needed]
Vlad Tepes is Guts, big if true

supposedly raped, but there aren't any sources that confirm that. Most likely, he was angered by his brother's decision (Radu cel Frumos) to fully embrace Islam and the Sultan - there are some sources that testify that Radu was the gay lover of the Sultan himself. Coupled with the fact that Vlad was a "court prisoner" in Constantinopol up until he become off age, and you might see why he hated Turks so much.

Voyk (Vajk/Bajk) is a common turkic name, so Jon Hunyadi's father was most likely a Walachian Cuman or Tatar.

>triathlon
phone poster detected

Triathlon? The sport competition, right? Aren't Hungarians mad 'cause they lost or something?

Might be, but if you look at the family tree of the Hunyadi family, you'll see that the first reported member was called "Costea", a name which is of latin origin (Constantinus). The second generation of the Hunyadi family was comprised of Serbe (Serban, formed from the latin "servus") and Radol (Radu, of slav origin). Only from the third generation of the family do we get the "Voyk" variation. As I've said before, pinpointing the exact origins of these families is very, very hard, as the various sources directly contradict each other - if we look at the direct sources out there, we'll see that even the Hungarians of that age admit that Jon was of Vlach origin, with his family moving from Wallachia to Transylvania (brought there by King Sigismund).

>Voyk was born in Wallachia, according to the nearly contemporaneous historians Johannes de Thurocz and Gáspár Heltai.[7] Voyk had been serving as a "court knight" in the royal court when he received the demesne of Hunyad from King Sigismund, suggesting that he was descended from a prominent Wallachian family.[7] Modern historian Kubinyi wrote that Voyk most probably joined Sigismund in 1395.[7] In this year, Sigismund invaded Wallachia and restored his vassal, Mircea the Old, to the princely throne.

pic very much related

Moreover, "Voyk" might be a variation of "Voicu", a name that is quite popular in our country, which is of slav origin (meaning "fighter"). Mind you, the spelling of the name would have been different at that time, especially in Hungarian sources that tended to "magyarize" the latin/slav names.

He was taken by the Janissary's and they would physically torture the children of noble or established families in order to have them sign over control, then give back the children as programmed killers. Vlad and his brother were definitely fucked.

>Yet you don't see me sperging out that one of the most legendary Hungarian Kings was actually Romanian, don't you?
>sperg
No one is sperging mate. I am trying to discuss what I feel is an interesting topic of central european history. I also reject the Hunyadi comparison because Matyas was not the founder of the Hungarian state. He was simply a Hungarian king who had some Vlach/Cuman origins, which no one disputes, or minds.
What I am pointing out here is that Basarab created the founding dynasty of Romania, and yet all we know from his is that he came from the territory of Hungary and had an "ugric" sounding name.
Also, in regards to the coat of arms. It is undeniable that the crescent moon and star upon a blue backdrop seems to be a universal symbol for Hunnic-esque cultures such as the Szekely and the Cuman (pic related). And these symbols were used by the Draculesti consciously as a celebration of these origins. The colours of the Draculesti coat of arms are also the colours of the modern Romanian flag.
The Hungarian influence over Romanian origins is undeniable. I'm not trying to be a cunt here either, I am just fascinated and also have taken a quite a liking of Romanians due to this.

He actually wasn't taken by the Janisarry corps - he was imprisoned in the fortress of Eğrigöz, alongside his brother and father (who was released first after the war ended). Moreover, there are no sources that talk about torture, there's actually a mention that both of the boys came back to Wallachia without any scars, as their father feared. Nonetheless, there are indirect sources that attribute the fact that his brother, Radu the Beautiful, embraced Islam and Ottoman lifestyle and was the lover of the Sultan himself.

>heir lives were especially in danger after their father supported Vladislaus, King of Poland and Hungary, against the Ottoman Empire during the Crusade of Varna in 1444.[22] Vlad Dracul was convinced that his two sons were "butchered for the sake of Christian peace", but neither Vlad nor Radu was murdered or mutilated after their father's rebellion.

check'd and it was only a remark, user, didn't mean to sound condescending at all, I'm down for a discussion myself.

>yet all we know from his is that he came from the territory of Hungary and had an "ugric" sounding name.

There are no sources that claim this. The origin of the Basarab family is disputed and although the name might seem similar with other Cuman names, if you read my posts above you'll see that family names have suffered a lot of modifications during those times, especially when reported to different courts (such as the Hungarian one, which used to "magyarize" most of the Slavic/Latin names). Moreover, even if the Basarab family was of Cuman origin, it wouldn't equate to the Romanians having Cuman origin, as only the ruling dynasty would have had that, not the people that inhabited Wallachia.

In regards to the coat of arms - as I've mentioned before, given the very close relationship between Vlad's father with the Hungarian nobles and kings (via the Order of the Dragon, which had massive Hungarian influence at that time),

(cont)

(cont)

the coat of arms might have been changed to reflect the close relationship between the Draculesti branch of the Basarab family and the Hungarians/Szeklers that helped them. If you look at the other branch of the Basarab family - the "Danesti" - you'll see that they didn't adopt those symbols at all on their coat of arms.

>The Hungarian influence over Romanian origins is undeniable

Is is undeniable indeed, but there's a reciprocity here - the Romanian influence on the Hungarians themselves was huge as well. There was a study conducted by a Hungarian lingvist a couple of years ago that pretty much showed how the Hungarians borrowed and transformed a lot of Romanian words (especially church/administrative related), mainly because the Hungarians lacked them due to their early type of Hun society (nomadic in nature).

>trying to debate history with a Romanian

You dug your own grave m8

>There are no sources that claim this
You are right. I haven't seen any sources attesting Basarabs origins as being from Transylvania as I suspected. He possibly hailed from Oltenia.
Oltenia was Hungarian territory known as Havasfold at the time, and may have had elements of the Hun nobility present there administrating it. Regardless, the Cuman and Pecheneg presence in Wallachia and Moldova is undeniable. Also, Basar-aba is a cognate of the hungarian word Vezer-apa, making this all the more intriguing.

>Regardless, the Cuman and Pecheneg presence in Wallachia and Moldova is undeniable

This is completely true, if other people say otherwise they are completely mad. The migration waves that started at the end of the 9th century have brought A LOT of different ethnic compositions into Wallachia/Moldova/Transylvania.

>Although his name is of Turkic origin, 14th-century sources unanimously state that he was a Vlach. Basarab came into power before 1324, but the circumstances of his ascension are unknown. According to two popular theories, he succeeded either his father, Thocomerius, or the legendary founder of Wallachia, Radu Negru

This means that Basarab was either the son of Thocomerius (who some Hungarian historians say that it's derived from Toq-tämir - ‘hardened steel", but it's very unlikely, mainly because if it was indeed true, then Basarab would have embraced this, as the Chingisid princes claimed ancestry directly from Genghis Han); or he was the son of the founder of Wallachia, Radu Voda, which was the son of Barbat (literally meaning "Man"), a legendary figure that ruled in Wallachia in 1278.

Also, Oltenia was a Hungarian territory at that time, yea - but it was firstly inhabited and ruled by Vlach voiveods (Litovoi, Barbat, Menumorut), all of which are classified as Vlachs by modern historians. Regarding Litovoi:

>He is mentioned for the first time in a diploma issued by king Béla IV of Hungary (1235–1270) on 2 July 1247.[2] The diploma granted territories to the Knights Hospitaller in the Banate of Severin and Cumania, “with the exception of the land of the kenazate of Voivode Litovoi,” which the king left to the Vlachs “as they had held it".

>Although the names of Litovoi and Seneslau are of Slavic origin, they are expressly said to be Vlachs (Olati) in the king's diploma. According to the Romanian historian Ioan Aurel Pop, the king had grabbed Haţeg from Litovoi shortly before 1247.

AFAIK it was more of a western latin influence, brought in by the german and italian priests. In fact, the official language of the Hungarian government was latin, up until the middle of the 19th century.

could be, I'm not denying that, it makes sense - I was merely talking about that study that the Hungarian lingvist did about the issue. If I'll find it in my bookmarks, I'll link it here, it's quite interesting.

>danesti branch
Can you point me to their CoA ? I tried but could not find anything.
> is undeniable indeed, but there's a reciprocity here
Yes, I agree. Our shared history has a lot of positive, and glorious elements, with the Order of the Dragon being but one example.
However, it is clear that Hungarian influence over the shaping of Romania is paramount. Both Moldova and Wallachia were established by the Hungarian state as marches, or fiefs.
All this to me simply says we should be friends. Fuck Trianon and the jews. There is a historic relationship here that should not go noticed, and could be utilized to help mend our differences, and maybe even cooperate together to save our people from these fucking tranny loving marxists.

which makes sense if you look at it this way - the Hungarian nomadic tribes settled in the Panonian region (also at the time when the Szeklers settled in Transylvania or were already settled), which in turn put them into contact with the local population over there (comprised of not only Vlachs, mind you, I'm not shilling for anything here) -> which might have made for a very unique cultural exchange between the Hungarians/Szeklers, especially in terms of linguistics as the Huns lacked specific terms in administration and church-related issues due to their nomadic nature.

you won't find it online, sadly. It's the same variation as the original Basarab one - the shield and the stripes, and that's pretty much all. It lacks the other symbols that the Draculesti had on their coat of arms.

>Both Moldova and Wallachia were established by the Hungarian state as marches, or fiefs

Will argue about this - Wallachia was formed independently, mind you. Basarab fought a war against the Hungarians to retain his independence (Posada battle, look it out); Moldova was formed out of Romanian nobles that left Transylvania because they didn't conform with the Magyar assimilation policy at that time (which forced them to convert to Catholicism if they wanted to occupy important functions in the state or if they wanted to live in the big cities). Bogdan I was the first ruler of Moldova, and his genealogy is clearly of Vlach origin - he even admits himself that he left the Maramures region, with a big group of Vlach noble families.

>Bogdan I, or Bogdan the Founder (Romanian: Bogdan Întemeietorul), was the first independent ruler, or voivode, of Moldavia in the 1360s. He had initially been the voivode, or head, of the Vlachs in Maramureș in the Kingdom of Hungary. However, when the first certain record was made of him in 1343, he was mentioned as a former voivode who had become disloyal to Louis I of Hungary.

>Basarab
Do you think it's likely that Basarab would carry a turko-ugric name without sharing those origins? Since we don't know for sure, we should go with common sense assumption that he was at least partially of turko-ugric origin, if not fully.
>Also, Oltenia was a Hungarian territory at that time, yea - but it was firstly inhabited and ruled by Vlach voiveods
I am not claiming Magyars in particular populated those areas in any significant amount, but I would suspect it was mostly Cumans and Pechengs who lived there. With possible latin elements as well.
See, all sources of Vlachs in that region seem to stem from the period directly after the Mongol Conquests, which unfortunately effectively wiped out the Cuman people from that region. The resulting void could have been filled with Latin people. I am just speculating of course.

All I'm saying is that if he was indeed of turko-ugric origin (the son of Thocomerius), he would have embraced his origins openly, as Thocomerius was supposedly a Chingisid prince that claimed ancestry directly from Genghis Han. Instead, Basarab never claimed this at all, which makes it quite strange, considering the fact that he might have allied himself with Hungary due to the cultural similarities and ancestry.

Regarding the void - it's very unlikely that it could have been filled with people of Latin origin - where did those people come from, if not from those lands themselves? The latin continuity has been disputed heavily over the ages, but it still stands strong when referring to the population that lived in Wallachia, as it's the only thing that makes sense, linguistically speaking. The only people that had any "latin" origin (language wise, not ethnic wise) were the people that used to live in Roman Dacia and in Moesia inferior.

You believe that Vlachs populated Transylvania? Even as a Magyar I don't object to the truth so it is irrelevant to me. However, just logically, I would assume the Vlachs are the post-Roman citizens of the Balkans who retained their linguistic origins and evenetually ended up concentrating around modern Romania. But I would assume there was far more Vlachs hailing from the Illyrian and Thracian provinces than Transylvania, Transylvania was not even a Roman province for centuries by the time the pagan slavs arrived in large numbers and started displacing the roman citizens in the balkans. Again, not trying to be a dick or anything, just being curious
>Will argue about this - Wallachia was formed independently, mind you.
The sources are pretty clear that Wallachia was a Hungarian fief before the battle of Posadas. Look at pic related.
>Moldova
Wikipedia seems pretty clear that Moldova was founded in 1353 by the Behest of Louis the Great in order to create an anti-chink march and operated with various degree of autonomy between 1350 and 1490.

>pic related

also nice we wuz for the entire thread, but history might disagree with you

> Thocomerius was supposedly a Chingisid prince that claimed ancestry directly from Genghis Han
The key word is supposedly. Also, we don't know what Basar-aba claimed to be, as our sources of him are scant. What we do know, is his son used the variation of the arpad stripes, coupled with szekely symbology in his coat of arms, and that he had a ugro-turkik name. That's all we can really go by. And the fact that he established his state on the land formerly known as "cumania"
>where did those people come from, if not from those lands themselves?
Vlachs=all surving roman citizens of the Balkans who spoke latin and not greek. Thats basically anything north of Makedon. So they could have come from any of those regions.
Cumania definitely dissapeared after the Mongol Invasion, and that coincides with the appearance of Vlachs in that region by contemporary sources.
Please enlighten me. If you think Im doing some Hungarian chauvanistic we wuz fucking jesus then you are simply wrong.

I admit I used to hate Romanians but Im starting to really like you fuckers. After all, you are descendants of Romans from the Balkans. Thats badass. You survived, kudos.

Well we have to look at what the Vlachs truly are - they are a population that spoke a language that originated from Vulgar Latin, located in the occupied Roman Dacia (meaning that they were of Dacian origin). Now, when you take into consideration the fact that the core of the Dacian "Empire" was located in Transylvania (and it was never conquered by the Romans themselves), you would assume that the ethnicity of the population was quite similar between locals in Transylvania and Wallachia, for that matter. What I do believe is this - the native populations that lived in Transylvania after the Aurelian retreat (271) up until the Hungarian "invasion" were decentralized and confined themselves into small villages dispersed all around the mountainous regions of the place. That's why we still have quite a lot of words of Dacian origin in our language (and that's why most rivers and mountains in Transylvania have names of Dacian origin as well).

>Wikipedia seems pretty clear that Moldova was founded in 1353 by the Behest of Louis the Great in order to create an anti-chink march

You're right, but that's wasn't an independent state of Moldova - it wasn't even called Moldova for that matter, as that name was given by Bogdan I after a river (Molda) - other variations of the name given to the land are either of German origin or even Czech, but the first one is the accepted one.

>Bogdan and his retainers left Maramureș for Moldavia between 1359 and 1365. Moldavia had been under the rule of Sas of Moldavia, a vassal of Louis I of Hungary, but the local Vlachs were opposed to the Hungarian suzerainty. Bogdan expelled Sas's son, Balc, by force and seized the throne. In retaliation, Louis I confiscated Bogdan's estates in Maramureș in 1365. Bogdan reigned as the first voivode of Moldavia. He did not accept the overlordship of Louis I of Hungary, transforming Moldavia into the second independent Romanian principality.

>If I don't like something, then trianon

>Vlachs=all surving roman citizens of the Balkans who spoke latin and not greek. Thats basically anything north of Makedon. So they could have come from any of those regions.
Cumania definitely dissapeared after the Mongol Invasion, and that coincides with the appearance of Vlachs in that region by contemporary sources.

Yea, but that doesn't explain the Dacian words that we have retained in our vocabulary, or the fact that the Romanians used Dacian names for rivers / mountains, long after the Dacians themselves disappeared. The Dacians never expanded in Moesia Inferior + most of the river names for example are located in the North part of Romania.

Vlachs truly are - they are a population that spoke a language that originated from Vulgar Latin,located in the occupied Roman Dacia
Why specifically Dacian tho, there is definitely no solid evidence of this. Or iss there any Greek, Hungarian, or German sources of this?
If not, is it not more logical that Vlach = Balkan people who retained their Latin origins? Because all throughout the Balkans the people spoke Vulgar Latin. Besides, you have Aromanians still living scattered all around the macedonia and shit, which also adds to my point. I don't, I just think its more likely that the Latins surving the fall of Rome in the Balkans are more likely to be from the Balkans itself as opposed to a former roman province that was abandoned a long time ago. Now, I could understand some elements of Vlachs surviving in Transylvania, but I am just saying it was probably not the majority.

moreover, regarding the foundation of Moldova

>The House of Dragoș,[1] also known as the House of Drăgoșești[2][3] (Hungarian: Drágfy , Drágffy, Drágffi) was founded by Dragoș[4][5] (also known as Dragoș Vodă[6] or Dragoș of Bedeu[7]), who was traditionally been considered the first ruler[4] or prince of Moldavia and who was Voivode in Maramureş.

Balc and Sas were part of the House of Dragosesti. The name of the house is derived from a slavic term, literally meaning "to love".

>dacian words
If you can provide me evidence that Dacian is retained in the Romanian language in a noticeable amount, then that's all the evindence I would need to convince me. Perhaps a word list?
Although I still prefer Hunno-Roman to Daco-Roman >:D
>Dacian names for rivers / mountains
That could have been preserved by the Avars or Bulgars even, and passed on to vlachs. No?

>According to the specialist Ion I. Russu, there are 160 Romanian words of Dacian origin (representing, together with derivates, 10% of the basic Romanian vocabulary).[1]

Here's the list: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Romanian_words_of_possible_Dacian_origin

And this only refers to Dacian words that have survived up until now - there's another list for names or rivers / valleys / mountains / medicinal plants that have been retained in the Romanian language up until now

>getting baited by the town rapist

D E L E T E THIS

And yet Voicu had a brother named Radu.

>The name of the house is derived from a slavic term, literally meaning "to love".
Drag in Hungarian also means wealth, or expense. Drag-os in Hungarian would literally mean he who is expensive. Just sayin.
>Sas
A Hungarian pagan name, meaning Eagle. Remember, Sas was the appointed Hungarian governor of Modlova, so his Romanian father probably intermarried with the Hungarian nobility, as was the custom at the time.

>That could have been preserved by the Avars or Bulgars even, and passed on to vlachs. No?
romanians are basically bulgarians

they have lots of bulgarian words, bulgarian personal names and bulgarian place names

We have slavic influences, yes, but we are not bulgarians. Moreover, most of our loan words are slavic from the slavic migrations or modern russian.

>Below is a list of Romanian words believed by early scholars to be of Dacian origin, which have also been attributed to other origins
> which have also been attributed to other origins
Hmm. I don't know man. So far we have no historic sources, and we have a disputed word list. Its kinda weak, but maybe Ill look into it deeper sometime later.
>Bogdan and his retainers left Maramureș for Moldavia between 1359 and 1365. Moldavia had been under the rule of Sas of Moldavia, a vassal of Louis I of Hungary, but the local Vlachs were opposed to the Hungarian suzerainty. Bogdan expelled Sas's son, Balc, by force and seized the throne. In retaliation, Louis I confiscated Bogdan's estates in Maramureș in 1365. Bogdan reigned as the first voivode of Moldavia. He did not accept the overlordship of Louis I of Hungary, transforming Moldavia into the second independent Romanian principality.
Nice. But you are proving my point. Wallachia and Moldova both basically declared independance from Hungary. Hungary is to Romania what England is to America and India
Embarce your inner M O N G O L

This discussion is a lot longer than it should've been.

Mods lock this, please. It's stupid circlejerking.

And Bulgars are basically Crypto-Magyars.
Bulgars should drop Slavic, and learn Magyar instead. It is much closer to your true origins.

>but we are not bulgarians
wrong
>Moreover, most of our loan words are slavic from the slavic migrations or modern russian.
the name radu
the title voivode
the title boyar
the name targovishte
the word for yes
the word voinic (and many more)

I do agree with your last part - the romanian nobles and the hungarian nobles intermingled a lot during those times, heck look at what the house of Dragosesti turned into during the next centuries (one of the most influential hungaryan house).

It’s still me btw, on a phone right now as I’ve left work. If the thread is still up when i get back home, we’ll continue it from there. If not, I really enjoyed having this civil conversation with you, reminded me of old Sup Forums.

>ancient slavic words used throught the slavic world are now bulgarian
Arent you fucking turkic at origins?

>ancient slavic
you fucking retard

Why don't you give us your thoughts and contribute? Don't hate Hungarians mate. They are good volk.
>It’s still me btw, on a phone right now as I’ve left work. If the thread is still up when i get back home, we’ll continue it from there. If not, I really enjoyed having this civil conversation with you, reminded me of old Sup Forums.
Yes. I opened this thread specifically to have a good chat regarding our history with a reasonable chap. Thanks.
> heck look at what the house of Dragosesti turned into during the next centuries
Ill look into it. It is interesting to me of late to see all the various ethnicites that contributed to my country. We really did share a lot of amazing shit.

>Bessarabia
Fuck guys they are already renaming your territory to their own shitty Islamic states or something. Do something Eurofags before Britain becomes Baja Libya!

>what are the sclavenes and the antes

Romanians are a mixture like us and their nobility probably had bulgarian roots as our nobility had caucasian roots. You do know why western historians refer to us as an EMPIRE not a Kingdom or right ?

actually they refer to us as a kingdom you fucking retard lmfao

>EMPIRE
Boi, I thought our WEWUZZERY was overblown.

britannica.com/place/Bulgaria/The-first-Bulgarian-empire

britannica.com/topic/empire-political-science

"Empire, major political unit in which the metropolis, or single sovereign authority, exercises control over territory of great extent or a NUMBER of territories or PEOPLES through formal annexations or various forms of informal domination."
>>inb4 random ranting
You are proven wrong. Have a nice day.

>links me britannica as a source

what a fucking moronic retard

what's next, wikipedia?

Haпpaви мaлкo пpoyчвaнe и виж oткъдe идвaт дyмитe цap и цapcтвo. И кaтo видиш чe cи ce изгyбил в пpeвoдa мoжeш дa ce пoпpaвиш. Кaтo ти глeдaм aкълa нямaш apгyмeнти и пoчвaш c oбиди. Tипичeн измeкяp.

mnoo si nadyhan be muhlio

въй въй изкapa ce лeвeнт c диплoмa пo иcтopия и aкълa нa 12 гoдишнa пиклa
en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/tsar
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsar
Caмo дeтo цap идвa oт цeзap кaктo и нeмcкитe Kaiser и oщe 10-20 paзнoвиднocти. И aкo cи тoлкoвa тъп кoлкoтo cи миcля Цeзap cтaвa cинoним нa ИMПEPATOP. Taкa чe мoйтo мoмчe ceдни пpoчeти eднa двe книжки, виж някoя дpyгa cтaтия пo възмoжнocт oт нaдeждeн изтoчник и cи paзкapaй зaдникa oт чaлгoтeкитe в cтyдeнтcки.

1/10, try harder burger