Religion and Morality

Sup Forums why do you behave morally?

A lot of you, like me, don't believe in God. And yet, for some inexplicable reason you feel compelled to not kill people, not steal their things, etc. despite the fact that we know there is no higher power and, assuming you don't get caught by police, nothing to lose from doing such things.

A truly high IQ person could easily use reason and logic to deduce that using things like deceit and theft for personal gain is the most logical thing you could do considering there are no downsides (again as long as you don't get caught).

What is it that keeps us from doing these things? What is it that niggers lack that allows them to do things like commit theft and violence so freely and openly with seemingly no remorse?

You're scared of the repercussions. Don't even try to deny it. Coward.

Because feelings.

What repercussions?

>A truly high IQ person could easily use reason and logic to deduce that using things like deceit and theft for personal gain is the most logical thing you could do considering there are no downsides (again as long as you don't get caught).
If your IQ is as high as you imply, you would be able to do a risk/reward analysis of these activities. Even if there's just a 10% chance you get caught, the consequences would be dire, even if it's just jail time, all that time being unproductive isn't a reasonable cost to pay for whatever it was you stole. You would need a massive reward to offset such a risk, but as the rewards go up so do the risks: security is greater which increases the odds of failure, and penalties are greater for stealing items of higher value. This is by design: it ensures that rational people don't decide to turn to crime, because it's a bad investment.

>why do you behave morally?
because i happen to not be disconnected with reality and realize the effect my transgression have upon myself and others.

i also fully believe in God but also realize that what most rebel against is a cartoon version of THE GREAT DIVINE.
that just happens when you grow up.

Because god is real and you do know it deep inside

>Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

But yet everyone uses gods name in vain , even the atheist use goddamit with a non existent god , how odd ? why dont we just use easterbunnydamit , satandamit ,zeusdammit ? , god is real and we all know it

Totally this. If you were on an island with pic related and no reprocussions I think most people would "help themselves"

It's biological. Not hurting people helps the species' survival. Also, I don't wanna go to jail.

I'm not really meaning to imply I'm super high IQ or anything. That's more a jab at people who say things like "uh, I'm smart enough to know that behaving morally is OBVIOUSLY what you should do! I don't need a sky fairy to tell me that!"

It's really not so obvious at all.

>Coward.
That's not a reasonable argument. The ability to properly analyze the risks of an action is exactly what it means to have a high IQ. Refusing to take a action because the potential risks outweigh the potential rewards doesn't make you a coward, it makes you reasonable. A coward is someone who does not take a risk even when the rewards outweigh said risk.

Morality is survival instinct applied to groups. If the group survives, you survive. If the group thrives, you thrive. If the group dies, you die. Actions that benefit the group without disproportionately harming you end up benefiting you.

This is human nature, religion is just one way of articulating it, which ended up getting mixed up with a pre-scientific attempt to explain the world.

>you can't be moral unless someone threatens you with eternal suffering if you are immoral
this is what cristcucks actually believe

>Morality is survival instinct applied to groups

>This is human nature

But how is it that some people have it and some people don't? Niggers live in groups, but they have no qualms with stealing from and killing each other. Same for Mexicans and Chinese.

Morality seems to be a nearly exclusively white phenomenon. And I'm not even some white supremacist. That's just what it looks like.

True, but exploitation of one group by another group can greatly benefit the exploiting group. And I'm not talking about some SJW bullshit either, look to UAE for a modern example of exploitation of not-quite-but-almost slave labour to build some of the luxuries that exist in Dubai and Abu Dhabi. Those cities are beautiful due to actions that disproportionately harm.

Not all humans have a soul. You're surrounded by philosophical zombies

>I'm not really meaning to imply I'm super high IQ or anything. That's more a jab at people who say things like "uh, I'm smart enough to know that behaving morally is OBVIOUSLY what you should do! I don't need a sky fairy to tell me that!"
>It's really not so obvious at all.

It breaks down into a sort of "prisoner's dilemma" situation.

-Two prisoners are arrested for a minor crime (1 year jail time) the police have strong evidence for and a somewhat more serious crime (2 year jail time) they need a witness for.
-They offer to drop the minor crime for whoever offers testimony against the other for the more major crime.
-If prisoner A and B snitch on each other, they both get 2 years in prison
-If one makes a deal and betrays the other, the snitch goes free and the loyal prisoner serves 3 years in prison
-If both remain silent they both serve 1 year in prison.

The best situation is where they both remain loyal for a combined jail time of 2 years (1 year each) but regardless, a purely rational prisoner would nonetheless betray his accomplice because his own action is all he can control. But humans have a bias towards cooperation for exactly this reason: cooperation forms a better society which creates a greater benefit for individuals.

Do you believe this? It's fucked up to think about if true. Most likely we are all soul-less.

You're not doing it because it's the "right thing to do", you're not doing it because you're scared of the consequences and getting raped in jail with Tyrone. If this was any other time, you would be raiding and pillaging like the damn white niggers that you are. Be thankful that Christianity civilized you whites and made you kinder and more emphatic.

No you can’t. Morality is built off of religious notions, even going way back to the Ancient Greek philosophers who believed that the soul is divine and thus acting to harm the soul is blasphemous against god.

Fucking atheist fags are so retarded

Because right and wrong have nothing to do with religion.

...

hahaha, christcuck posting always make my sides split

'Standard "moral principles" are arbitrarily assumed by their orthodox apologist to be a fixed and unalterable quantity, and that to doubt the divine rightness of these "principles" is treason and sacrilege. When the greatest thinkers of a race are incapable, or afraid to perform their manifest and logical function, it is scarcely to be wondered that average citizens are also somewhat unwilling to "risk life,fortune and sacred honor" for the overthrow of popularized "right and wrong" concepts, that they know from bitter personal experience, are unworkable falsities.

Although the average man feels in his heart that nearly all political and religious conventionalisms are dynamic deceits, yet how cautiously he avoids any open display of antagonism thereto? He has not the courage of his opinions. He is afraid to say openly what he thinks secretly. In other words he is living in a state of subjectiveness; of vassalage. He allows his brain to be dominated and held in bondage by the brain of another. From his infancy he has been deliberately subjected to a continuous external pressure, especially designed to coerce his understanding into strict accord with pre-arranged views of moral, political or religious "duty."

He has not been permitted one moment of real mental liberty. His mind is sterilized by authority before it has had a chance to mature.

Thus youth is mentally castrated, that its natural vitality may be afterwards used up in the yoke of custom- which is the yoke of slavery.

Although the average man has taken no part in manufacturing moral codes and statute laws, yet how he obeys them with dog like submissiveness? He is trained to obedience like oxen are broken to the yoke of their masters.'

FUCK OFF SHLOMO

Hahaha atheist retard, enough said.
If you don’t believe in God then you’re likely subhuman with below average intelligence. And also probably a faggot

kek you can't be moral and religious faggot. It's one or the other. Go back to shilling for the kikes

>Implying that a high I.Q. denies empathy and morality instead of reinforcing it.

Rule utilitarianism

>Implying a vast intellect narrows the priorities of an individual from the society they inhabit to the self.

The inverse is objectively true.

>What is it that keeps us from doing these things? What is it that niggers lack that allows them to do things like commit theft and violence so freely and openly with seemingly no remorse?

They are niggers and we are not, and the fact they cannot, or will not, change is why we harbor such putrid disgust.

The fact that others protect their animalistic behavior instead of integrating them into society as useful members is why we hate most liberals and SJWs.

These are literally the most basic redpills of the unmotivated Genuis fresh out of highschool, OP.

Because I want for my own sake to live in a peaceful and honest world. i want to be able to trust people and work together with them for the good of us all. Any body with a "high IQ" knows 10 honest men working together will yield more then 10 immoral men who keep robbing of each other. being moral helps us all work together. you don't even need a high IQ when you have friends you can trust.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Because if I kill people, people are gonna kill me
We learned that millions of years ago
Sup Forums will instantly talk about muh good white genes but cant accept that morality is genetic
European countries do well because they learned to cooperate as much as possible
Africa is shitty because they still are tribes fighting each other for a piece of desert
Morality is genetic

>calling somebody a subhuman and low IQ
>is literally a nigger without his Jewish religion
kek, please keep responding to my posts

>atheist using kek
Imagine that, some retarded atheist fag knows nothing about the evolution of morality. Pseudo intellectual fedora tipper faggots who don’t even read ancient philosophy and then try to debate the religious nature of morality.

Hint: religious morality is older than Christianity you fucking retard

The Enlightenment Era was a mistake

Evolutionary pressures to do what is best for the GROUP and a European history of killing the violent for generations.

This is what I used to believe until I realized that most people simply cannot be reasoned with. The overwhelming majority of people spiral out of control when left to their own devices for to long or when they are given “responsibility” for themselves. Now, I’m not only talking about low IQ thirdworlders. Even Hitler understood that, among his beloved people, most were just herd-like in behavior and they just simply follow the group because it is the easiest and most prudent thing to do. He did not hold this behavior against them, in fact he used it to his advantage since it wasn’t just a matter of circumstance, but a fact of life. Not everyone is desires to be this completely free spirit that has to be “broken down” in order to listen to authority. Most likely, it’s just a function of intelligence and the ability to really analyze what you are being told to do and what the true motivations are for doing so. I don’t believe that you can simply “educate” the masses to think outside the box or to have introspective thoughts. It would be an extremely inorganic and inefficient tactic anyways. Also, at the end of the day, what matters is a nation’s homogeneity of purpose. Some will do the thinking, and some the doing. This is the most efficient and ethical way.

I want to stick my 27cm uncut BBC in that arse of hers

>A lot of you, like me, don't believe in God
Stopped reading there.
Sup Forums is a christian board.

This really isn't true. Otherwise, why would it be morally wrong to kill the homeless, the disabled, and the retired? Not to mention anybody in an outgroup, or civilians in an enemy state.

Exactly this. When you have someone who is of higher IQ that looks out for his lower IQ neighbor, you have vicariously boosted the IQ of the dumber neighbor to some extent. Obviously sharing a common heritage, therefore culture, therefore ideology, therefore goal, is necessary for one to truly care for their neighbor.

You don't act morally reprehensible because you have a comfy society and rule of law incentivizing good behavior. Most people with weak moral codes would be horrified by the things they would do if that society were to cease.

>A lot of you, like me, don't believe in God. And yet, for some inexplicable reason you feel compelled to not kill people
mirrorneurons

Don't speak for us pagan nigger, christcucks believe man was made in the image of god and we have the responsibility to behave more like god than beast.

Intelligence is genetic. Morality is a function of intelligence. Without intelligence, morality is determined by adherence to religion (implied punishment) or by a state (possible punishment). That is also why when you cripple religion, the state must grow to contain those without the intellectual captacity to self govern.

Because most languages are patchworks of different concepts and other languages. Werewolf is a perfectly acceptable english word even though 99% of the native speakers wouldn't know what the 'Were-' stands for, or the 'Mer-' in mermaid. Similarly, The word Hell is from Germanic/norse mythology, yet everyone uses it in english translations of christianity, and even swear using it.

Unfortunately for you 99% of the world finds groids hideous

>thinks whites need laws not to murder eachother en masse

History might have turned out differently if that were the case

People are born with a God given conscience. Some people choose to ignore it and over time they become hardened to it to the point of being able to do these things you say.

What causes people to ignore it? Is it a matter of intelligence to be able to isolate and understand this internal compulsion or is it the environment that causes the disconnect?

If only that were true. We are born with sin in our hearts. Selfishness is natural. You must chisel away at the heart of sin and fashion yourself after Jesus. This takes hearing the Lord's word which is why we must be vocal now when the time is ripe.

Mixture of things. Environment, influence, lack of seeking God. I think with some parts of black culture it seems anti-social to me & christian parts seem more normal.

You'll never be the best or the smartest, or the richest or the most powerful. And it sucks to have your wife raped in front of you, your shit stolen and your guts stabbed.

So while you may prey on the weak, you'll eventually meet some one stronger than you.

Makes more sense to just not be an edgy teenager

> this pic
Look like a hand coming from an anus.

This idea is one of the main reasons christianity is harmful to Western societies. Christianity is the dopamine of the general population.

In ALL of European religion, there was the concept of the afterlife only being open to those WORTHY.
Any subpar attempt at life would land you in some endless numb place (like the Asphodel Meadows in Hellenism).
This was likely a safety mechanism put in place by cultural evolution to motivate the general population to aim high.

Christianity on the other hand, allows anyone to go to heaven, as long as they don't 'act out', and do naughty things. It is not something I think about much, but it seems VERY likely to be a reason why so many people were eager to adopt christianity in classical times; otherwise, they would have to WORK to get into the good afterlife.
People in modern times know that christianity is wrong, but when they reject those teachings, they are left with nothing, no dopamin effect, no motivation, just the abyss. Thus the angst and suicidal tendencies of many atheists today.

tldr; European paganism was about self improvement, christianity is dopamine trash

This applies to slavery, abortion, and pretty much every serious moral issue. It can't be a tool for group survival.

I guess the entire point of religion (objectively across all religions) is to harness this instinctual appeal to authority and give it actual direction. Without this direction you have people using horoscopes to govern their lives and harp on and on about baseless "spirituality" from doing yoga. People have an internal desire to connect to the unknown and great things can be done when this will is harnessed and directed (typically for a common morality among a population)

>why do you behave morally?
>american flag
>la creatura de Zion

giving away your free will to ANY higher power releases dopamine for an overwhelming majority of people. Pagan gods, Christian god, a state, a king. The masses crave control (or at least are so easily brainwashed into craving it there is no point to undo it). Our greatest weakness is that we get caught up thinking that it is wrong to take advantage of this unpalatable fact of life while leftist ideologues take control unimpeded. Since religious monarchies, one of the only successful attempts at an ideologically non-leftist leader once again taking the reins of the masses from the leftists (communists/jews) was Hitler because he knew the truth. He believed in what he was doing and he fucking did it with no reservations. The only way to fight against egotistical ideologues is to become one yourself and that is not a bad thing if it is objectively better for your people. Read Mein Kampf

>there are no downsides
but there are, you shortsighted nigger

When you do bad things to people, it makes them angry and depressed, which affects their behavior. I dont want to live in a world where everybody treats each other like shit "because thats what they do to me". I also care about the future and the lives of my descendents, so I want the world to be better for them.

Selfishness beats altruism in groups. Altruistic groups beat selfish groups. That's basically why white people are best and shitskins are inevitably corrupt and primitive.

Also I have genetic empathy; I feel bad emotionally when I do bad things. If you don't have that, you may be a subhuman psychopath.

Because you were behaviorally groomed to think that way. It has been with you your entire life, had you grown up being taught it was okay, you would think the opposite. Morals are social constructs used to make cooperation more trustworthy and smooth. Athiests and partially agnostics must accept that outside of a religous system who holds morality to an empirical system based on their sacred texts, we do not have morality, but strong social pressures coupled with child rearing techniques to keep society oprearing efficiently.

I literally just spoke of how Paganism sent underachievers to a place of numbness and nothingness(atheist death). And to those who actually did something with their lives, they got to go to one of several 'good' afterlives(involving seemingly optional rebirth). The greatest of the great went to the greatest of afterlives.
And considering that the pagan gods were mainly thought of as impartial overlords, exacting tribute from their subjects, I fail to see how that is "giving away free will". Especially when people were faced with the void if they did not actively strive to improve.

Nigger

el mercader sin luz

Whites can be quite incongruent. I’ve never seen babies murdered at a black metal show.

You think maybe it’s all theater?

Because you also recognize the ability for an individual to change or improve his or her situation or even for an enemy civilian to defect as with German rocket scientists

But I dont. My behavior is purely based on self interest and risk assessment. If I behave "morally" it is only to obtain something or out of fear for potential social repercussions.

Because I have an instinct, based on a genetic imperative, to not fuck up the society I live in, since that could hurt my future success, reproductive and otherwise.
For some reason, niggers seem to lack this.

stfu nigger and give sauce on this semen demon

most non-practicing people are still bound to chrisian morality in the west by legal frameworks based on liberal and therefore by extension protestant moral philosophy.

>I wont be moral unless someone threatens me with eternal butt rape in federal prison
this is how fedoracucks actually feel.

Because I have empathy and the ability for abstract thinking. Niggers lack both of those faculties.

Also psychopaths have to keep moving around because you can lie, cheat and steal in one place only for so long. I'd rather form bonds and connections the psychopaths and niggers can't.

I think this is a very valid question which boils down to the center of religious morality. Religious theologists have long argued that, ultimately, if you dont subscribe to the idea of God, there isnt much reason to be moral in your behaviour.

Afterall, suddenly there is no such thing as absolute morality. There is only your gain, or your loss. Inaction on the persons side is then no longer influenced by concepts of right or wrong, but by consequences of your actions.
ie: If you can steal $10,000 and get away with it, then there isnt much reason not to.

This is why for a long time a distinction has been made between "being good" and simply "not being bad". One is subscribing to a belief system, and accepting the underpinned laws of that system. The other simply is non-action due to fear of consequences/insufficient incentive.

Ultimately, If I start at a $1000 and say there will be no consequences to you stealing it, some will take it. If I keep multiplying it by 10, more and more will eventually succumb to stealing it. Whereby, at the extreme end of the simulation, only the most religious will still stand their ground, and "everyone else" will have succumbed into stealing the cash.

This is why you should start reading your Bible and trying to understand God + Christ on a deeper level besides "do this", "dont do that".

There are plenty of downsides to living in a world in which people rationalize doing bad things.

All behavior is incentive-based. If people could get away with doing these things without repercussions they could. And I can guarantee you that the depraved relish with which the 'religious' people would carry out their evil would be greatest of all.

Because I prefer not to fuck over my common man.

>What is it that keeps us from doing these things?
Majority of western people have been selected over the generations to have a "biological morality". An uncorrupted, not desensitised person will feel revulsion at murder, theft and rape, even if they might have something to "gain" from doing it. This was selected for in the western peoples since we had around 1800 years of hanging and crucifying any idiot who so much as stole bread or fucked another mans wife.

There exist sociopaths who are born without this innate revulsion reflex, as well as it can be trained out of a person through abuse or desensitization, but a standard westerner will, even without knowing about law or consequence, have self-policing behaviour to increase societal functionality.

I disagree with you, and think your whole initial premise is flawed.
>All behavior is incentive-based.
Surely the person who has their moral and value system based on something immaterial will give less heed to the things which would tempt the irreligious.

Yes, you could argue "thats only because your religion happens to favour X, Y and Z things" but this is also flawed. At the level of someone who is weak in their faith, sure. They are just doing certain things to avoid eternal punishment. But this is a flaw of the student, not a flaw of the lesson. In the same way a poor chemistry student having limited appreciation for all the properties of a chemical reaction is a limitation of the student, not of his teacher.

>tips fedora

I wouldnt want those things to be done to me. So I don't do them to others.

> We are only mind.

This is the trick of the middle IQ. A really intelligent and developed person understands that humans are more than the sum of their ideas.

Lack of meaning is a byproduct of stupidity, not intelligence. And if you can't understand it, it's just because you are not intelligent enough

So you don't think behavior is incentive based, or you don't think it ALL is? Because I think we have plenty of data to conclude this. The government regularly offers incentives that increase certain behaviors, and regularly offers disincentives that decrease others. In what way is religion different? Keep in mind I'm not arguing that religion is bad any more than I'm arguing that rules are bad. But it really does seem to me that it effectively controls the people who are dumbest and cannot think for themselves.

Again, I'm not even saying religion is false. But remove organized religion and government and we end up with tribal societies where strength of arms determines everything.

I don't like being the reason why other people suffer.

>Sup Forums why do you behave morally?
because it makes me and the world around me better

I like being better and in a better place

1. I would argue you cannot simply equate unreligious and religious people in the same category as both following incentives. Its too loose an association, and doesnt do anything to explain the nature of these incentives. Material and metaphysical incentives might have some overlap, but ultimately, theres more difference than there is similarity.

2. That just because some proportion of religious people follow religion for metaphysical incentives, that this is not what the core faith reduces to. A corrolary to this is - there is a deeper reason to love your parents beyond immediate survival/provision of life essentials. Thats part of it, and some people ONLY respect their parents due to this, but it would be foolish to boil the whole relationship down to this.

I'm an old timey Catholic, but that said it doesn't influence my morality besides hating Jews and Muslims. I personally believe it's in every white mans best interest to look out for one another, and abide by the golden rule, because it not only lends the idea that if you're an asshole people will be an asshole to you, but also if you're kind, people will be kind to you. I also believe it is the white mans burden to show mercy and kindness to the less degenerate and lowly of the lesser races and peoples. I've met many a good black man I'm actually okay with saying they are not niggers, because they show respect and adapt to us instead of the other way around. And as much as it pains me to say it, I've even met a few Jews who don't act Jewy and actually just act like good white members of society, so I treat them with some respect for doing so. This probably comes from me being raised biracial, being partly Japanese and all.
That said I also wish it was more culturally acceptable to express the more militant side of my morality, like that we should just fucking hang socialist politicians from street lamps downtown.

Well I can see where you're coming from, but we just aren't going to agree or reach common ground. In my opinion, literally everything is incentive based. It's so obviously true as to be a tautology, yet people still debate it.

About your argument for loving your parents: love toward ones parents is not a choice. One never decides one day, based on rational evidence, that they're going to love them when they did not before. A child bonding with its caregivers, and the caregivers bonding with the child, are biological processes. They are not voluntary, and are therefore outside the realm of things that could be influenced by incentives/disincentives. So what I'm saying is: loving your parents isn't some kind of virtue, it's just biology.

>A lot of you, like me, don't believe in God

Tip your fedora on the exit, faggot.

I see. So you are arguing for a hierarchical afterlife so that it further motivates people to do greater things instead simply to "not do bad things and apologize if you do." I agree, but Christianity can accomplish the same result as long as strong, unapologetic ideals are advertised once again. Christian history and doctrine is full of heroes. Nowadays, the concept of being heroic is reserved for particularly unattractive trannies and jew-subverted, pop-culture superheroes. Being "not bad" is not an ideal but that is all christianity is left with nowadays. White religions are forced to make compromise after compromise to their doctrine to appease the (((intellectual)))-subverted minds of the masses. Paganism would also be reduced down to LARPing, pop-culture, and consumerism. The real problem is not paganism vs. christianity, but humanity vs. the anti-humanity of the eternal ctritique.

Because as a white man I hold myself to the highest standards. We are the shinning light in this disgusting world.

This is the truth. We are not born with a soul, it's developed. The majority of the world is soulless.

Evolutionary psychology bro. Basically the same reason niggers have such a ridiculously high time preference. In the same way that time preferences come from a region's growing season, the increased sense of empathy and respect for property inevitably rose from living in a climate where temperatures could kill you just by remaining unsheltered for long swaths of the year.

Lots of nibbles today

I agree that most of the world lacks souls, but I disagree with the reason. I don't think soulless people eventually 'develop' souls or gain them in some manner. You're either born with them or you're not. The core issue is that the number of people born is greater than the number of un-liberated souls available to the system.

When you get to eat the bait and avoid the hook, isn't that good thing?

Except that wester societies as you know them would have never existed without Christianity, and specially the Catholic church with its focus on roman law, Greek philosophy and the advancement of science.

Bravos OP, you just destroyed a 2.5 thousand years old philosophy.
>What if you don't get caught?
Genius!

a "Truly high IQ" person would also know that it's a dick move to fuck over someone for personal gain

Neck yourself.

idk if there were no laws i'd probably do a lot of bad shit
perhaps not to people who don't deserve it but still

A lot of what we consider artificial moral behavior for humans can be seen in other species.
The basis for morality predates humanity.

Spotted the niggers.

There is absolutely no reason given in the bible as to why self improvement further improves your chances of getting into heaven, other than shit that the general population would not do anyway. As long as this remains, the general population will always remain as they are now.

Western society boomed BECAUSE those things were reintroduced. And they were only reintroduced because scholars in the Roman Empire evacuated to western Europe because of the Ottoman turks. Bringing Roman law, Greek philosophy, and this ushered in an age of scientific and cultural advancement.
Otherwise, the Catholic Church was little better than islam. In fact, Islam had made many more contributions to science during that time, despite merely stumbling across prior knowledge from those they had conquered.