How was Studio Pierrot able to draw pic related for a weekly anime like Naruto...

How was Studio Pierrot able to draw pic related for a weekly anime like Naruto, while Dragon Ball Super/One Piece by Toei is utter shit animation wise?

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Honestly that fight was shit. I don't get why so many people enjoy it.

quality of the fight itself aside it had amazing animation for a weekly shonen

A lot of the more impressive fight scenes in Nardo was basically rotoscoped over great live action fight scenes, so that probably helped a lot.

That same technique can't really work with Dragonball because the characters all fly and shoot lasers and shit.

Because Toei can shit on a plat and still make money.

Tiger Mask W looks a lot better than Dragon Ball Super/One Piece sometimes.

Pierrot has pumped and grinded out a lot of great people over the years. They come back every once in a while.

>rotoscoped
>there's like no fucking inbetween frames to make the animation more cohesive so they slapped shaky cam to mask it
>OP fell for it

Dragon Ball and One Piece also gets the occasional well-made episode though they tend to be more conservative.

It's not rotoscoped, silly. I agree some of the cuts could have had better timing but it was a well-made fight nonetheless.

Because prior to that fight we had over 20 episodes of pure garbage and QUALITY.

In One Piece's case it's because the anime is constantly like 10 chapters behind the manga and Toei refuses to do filler.

It's better than the shit they put out weekly but the artstyle completely changed and there was simply no weight behind the attacks. It's like I was watching octo-dad the anime.

Just swing your arms as much as possible and flip around instead of actually fighting. It's like they took all of the bad parts of wire-fu and none of the good. I get that they were fighting with knives and brute force isn't quite something they can show but if that were the case then they should have emphasized the lethality of the fight like in Sword of the Stranger.

>it's not rotoscoped
>even though it clearly looks like it was

Just because the animator decided not to meticulously copy a video frame by frame doesn't mean it wasn't rotoscoped. Look at OP's post and say again that it wasn't rotoscoped.

And does it fucking matter if it was or wasn't rotoscoped? A good rotoscope is one that no one ever points out as a rotoscope because the animator actually gave a rat's ass amd only used the underlying video reference as a foundation from which to incorporate more dynamic and fluent animation rather than the actual animation.

It doesn't look rotoscoped at all though. The movement and timing doesn't have realistic qualities one would see in rotoscoped animation. It's just choreographed then animated regularly. A rotoscoped fight in Naruto would be in Naruto and Sasuke's final duel. The part where they were wearily trying to beat each other up near the end is rotoscoped and confirmed by the staff themselves. The motion there is deliberate and realistic.

Barely any animators know how to make an action scene with good weight behind it. It takes skill to be able to make fluent animation but it takes blood sweat and tears to be able to convey weight behind something like a punch or a swing.

You get Evangelion and a handful other mech shows, Sword of the Stranger and motherfucking Titan AE fisticuffs (which isn't even an anime first of all), and motherfucking christ almighty Inuyasha and that's fucking it. Ghibli movies included.

Pierrot is only good when they hire a fuckton of key animators for specific episodes.

They fucked up Korra S2 so bad that I quit watching that shit until years after it finished.

The episode OP is referring to only had 4 key animators, and only one of them was freelance.

>Inuyasha
When? As far as I know the animation is largely unremarkable and the few bits of good animation are showcases of effects animation first and foremost.

I agree with him, it doesn't look rotoscoped.

>the movement and timing doesn't have realistic qualities so that means it wasn't rotoscoped

What the fuck did I just get done explaining to you?

The very nature of rotoscoping is transfering motion from a video reference onto 2D animation. The end result of some rotoscopes having realistic animation is just a by-product; it isn't the standard by which all rotoscopes should be defined.

You're the generation that grew up on the understanding that a rotoscope is something that was copied from video to animation and has a realistic quality to the motion when really the rotoscope part is just the act of taking the video reference and transfering the motion onto animation.

Is this sufficient information? Are you able to understand now? If the internet had the capability of conveying information more slowly so people like you can understand better that would've been nice.

The good animation comes few and far between but Sunrise actually did a decent job conveying weight.

It only makes sense that they should, considering they're kind of known more for all the mech shit they do.

Naruto has some really well animated fights but the rest of the episodes are usually lazily put together. Almost every episode reuses scenes from the previous episode and there's a lot of reliance on flashbacks. Its really bad in part 1 and early shippuden.

The only arc that's really consistently well animated is the chikara arc and that's only 6 episodes.

It's impressive since they usually deliver on all the important fights but they sacrifice the quality of everything else. It might be better than other long running shows but that's not saying a lot.

Because it tried it's absolute best to save an otherwise terrible fight.

Have you seen the manga version to this? Kakashi defeat Obito with a single kick.

People don't realize Kishimoto was a hack in most of his fight scenes and the Studio Pierrot did a great job cleaning up the dog shit with a baggie of good animation.

Only americans would enjoy shaky cam fight scenes and then proceed to say that it was good animation

But I guess if the animators only did a minimal effort job and threw on shaky cam afterwards to hide what they didn't finish and people like you still liked it then I guess the animation did its job after all.

Yes. I'm sure Pierrot went out of their way to hire martial artists and professional wrestlers to perform huricanranas and gravity defying movement to use for rotoscoping. It's not like they have extremely talented and well known animators working on their fight scenes or anything.

You sound asshurt

I never said the fight scene was anything amazing. I only rewatched it once since the episode was out.

My point was it did justice to what would've been the shittiest fight scene in amazing.

Personally, I would say it on it's own is pretty subpar, considering how they had to de-power Obito and not have him use the full arsenal of his mokuton abilities, his S rank fire abilities, his fucking space time bullshit, and his Rinnegan abilities.

This honestly would've been done much better if this battle was legitimately a challenge for Kakashi,

That's some attitude you've got there buddy, but I don't need a smartass trying to explain what rotoscoping is. For all your expertise in the subject you somehow can misidentify the .gif in the OP as a product of rotoscoped. Tell me, what makes you think it is? And I hope you know there is a distinction between referencing and rotoscoping.

>this one part has the characters doing magic bullshit so that means the animation that came only a few seconds before or after it wasn't rotoscoped either

That's a lot of mental backflips user

>people complain about Naruto power levels
>get a fight using hand to hand combat and minimal power level shit and people complain
Anyway, the scene before the fight establishes that they've been fighting for a while and that they're at their limit so that's why the fight is so toned down.

Most mecha anime don't depict realistic weight though, and that includes Sunrise anime. Only Gundam 0080 has some scenes with belieavble weight, the rest has more stylized motion.

>297x198
>_hq
>.gif
>zero shading
Am I supposed to be impressed

>This honestly would've been done much better if this battle was legitimately a challenge for Kakashi,

You're making it sound like as if Kakashi was weak. Him and his father was considered to be the most skilled shinobi in the village.

Plus like the entire point to this fight wasn't to go all out, but to tone it down so Obito could prove a point to Kakashi about his resolve.

So you're telling me that the only possible way something has to be rotoscoped is if the animator copied a video frame by frame right?

If you're unable to discern whether an animation was rotoscoped then your first thought is "well I guess that means it wasn't rotoscoped"?

You're this fixated on your rule when rotoscoping is literally just the act of transferring motion from a source onto another source? The animator can very well only trace a few frames to outline their key frames so that the frames in between can be more expressive and fluent in an animation perspective and you're going to say that it wasn't rotoscoped because the animator didn't trace every frame?

Shading is overrated and not using it means the lines have to be more precise as any mistakes will be clear to see.

Rotoscoping is just a means of an end, not meant to make people argue over whether an animation was or wasn't fucking rotoscoped you autistic idiots.

There are several studios or animation teams that get episodes assigned on a cyclical basis, usually somewhere between 8-12 or more teams active at any given time, and the episodes probably have to go into intitial planning a few months before the air date. On occassion special key animators that aren't in the normal rotation get to do episodes with prominent fights and those are usually the standouts in the series.

TIger Mask W is legit better than DBS

I only watch hyped up naruto eps, I think I missed this. Bredy gud

It's generally frame-by-frame as rotoscoping is a useful tool to capture realistic motion. You can apply it to limited animation as Aku no Hana has shown and even add embellishments to detail since roto is mainly about the movement.

The .gif in question is not roto'd. That portion of the fight was animated by an up and coming young animator, Naoki Kobayashi. I'm sure he studied many videos of martial arts to better draw the actions, but that's referencing. Also, the last time the show had rotoscope work, a CG studio was listed for motion capture assistance in the credits which of course the episode in question did not have.

Narushit is also shit-tier in animation and in everything else, delusional underage friend.

ITT: people who dont know shit about animation and anime production pretends they do.

PS: OP's if was not rotoscoped

hypothetically speaking, how much money would I need to 1) completely buy One Piece from Toei (the show, distribution and licensing, films, etc.), 2) change One Piece to a SEASONAL anime, and 3) changeover to another studio (like Madhouse, Bones, etc.)

The issue is that One Piece ruined everything. Dragonball in the end wasn't even half as long as the One Piece anime was, even with all the filler and padding. So even though it was QUALITY a lot of the time, the moments weren't overbearing.

The issue with One Piece is that it's lasted too long. It became too ingrained in the cultural psyche, so that around the time it was going over the amount of episodes Dragonball had, Toei began to realize just how little effort they had to put into it. Awful filler arcs, wonky pacing, terrible animation. They realized that the Japanese really didn't give a shit and would just consume no matter what. So they stopped trying because as long as One Piece is running it's numbers will never drop. Even if Oda only does 2 chapters a month now it doesn't matter because they can spread a single chapter over a month or just start a filler arc.

Though One Piece isn't all to blame, since Naruto really put the idea into everyone's head because it had 2 YEARS of filler and that didn't damage the brand in Japan, just in America, but One Piece really cemented just how far you could push a brand and now Toei's animation studio is full of people who've been trained in that environment. None of the good animators want to work on One Piece or Dragonball because the budgets are so tight and the they've got no freedom to express themselves through the story. They go to stuff like Tiger Mask and Precure where they can have a bit more artistic freedom

You realize most people in the business are freelancers and just jump from studio to studio, right? Pretty much only Kyoanus has actual, regular people in the studio at all times though they out-hire a lot as well.

Both TV ratings and volume sales for One Piece have plummeted since Marineford. They're still consistently doing great compared to other anime and manga, but about half of what they were before.

Toei best animators do Precure. Rejected scraps do One Piece and DBS.

a lot of those guys don't even work for toei, they're sub-contracted viets and coreans
woah, naruto is great at having the best spin-off anime since railgun and cute girls (male)

Still better than the light that appears everytime they take their clothes off

somebody post the nardo fanfics pastebin. thats the only bearable way to take in narturo

I thought I wouldn't, but I caved and bought megahouse's hinata
I'll probably do it again if they do an adult or 12yo hinata too
end my life
at least she'll look good with hinagiku and kagura (who were both a lot cheaper) and my shit taste

When's the next chapter of Boruto?

do people on Sup Forums unironically watch boruto?

it's actually a pretty good cute girls/kids do cute things anime, just alienates a lot of potential audience being related to naruto and will is likely to eventually become a rushed retarded edge-fest
Sumire is probably the cutest girl this season too
first WSJ of the month, so should be this wednesday

Newborn,

All of the bad scenes on Toei's shonenshit are outsourced at Toei Philippines, made by flips. It's very expensive to produce 1000+ episodes per series, so they resort on a cheaper method. And the budgets for those anime are supported by Shueisha, Bandai, and Fuji TV, they only offer 100,000 ~ 150,000 per episode.

The good ones are made by nips from their main studios in Japan, like on their anime movies, or on Kado episode 5, the Wam origami sakuga. When it comes to Toei originals, the only part of Toei Philippines is digital coloring. And Precure sponsored by Mcdonalds annually.

There's a lot of veteran animators at Toei, they can do realistic movements without tracing/rotoscoping. And qt girls, introverted animators, like Hifumi on New Game!, there was a reference about them in Shirobako. These qts only work on girly stuff. These scenes are just one of their latest work. Those introvert qt girls are good. youtu.be/OL_cKZ5WgUQ

Budget matters.
youtu.be/cq8p0FD248c

It's good direction and visual storytelling. I haven't watched or read Naruto since very early Shippuden, and I still know exactly what's going on and the stakes from watching this one scene outside of context. I dislike Nurutu greatly, but you have to give credit where credit is due. The choreography is above average, but it's the flashbacks interspliced in the sequence that give this an emotional punch, and it's brilliant.

narutards love their nardo, Sup Forums favorite bullied boytoys

>A good rotoscope is one that no one ever points out as a rotoscope
>therefore I will point out that this is a rotoscope even though I have no proof and valid my point
Hilariously pathetic

One Piece has 0 budget because Toei knows it will sell on it's name alone anyway. They could totally invest into fluid animation but they simply refuse to do so.

>All of the bad scenes on Toei's shonenshit are outsourced at Toei Philippines

Up to 70% of all of Toei's animation (at the clean-up and in-between level, at least) is done at Toei Philippines.
Each episode of a show only has an allotment of up to 3,500 drawings. Other studios supposedly have an allotment of 5,000 drawings per episode, although I don't know how true that is.
Toei Philippines has been doing work for Toei Japan since 1986, when it started out as a cel & background paint studio. It started doing CU/IB work a few years later, then KA work around the 2000s. And in all those years, not one person has ever praised them for their work. It's always been "Oh, this looks bad, it must be the Filipino artist's fault" even though they've been doing animation work longer than most of you ignorant racists have been alive.

It hurts that, due to it's length, One Piece will never get a decent re-animation.
One Pace are doing the best they can but the source animation is still pure shit.

I've never watched one piece but is that an actual frame from the anime?! holy kek.

ITT: Nobody understands how animation works

It's my favourite fight purely because it's a break from the ridiculously overpowered shit that was going off at the time with tailed beasts chilling around and flashy orbs and shit being thrown at eachother. It was extremely nice to go back to a bog standard fist fight with a few basic jutsu. It was also nice to see a fight that wasn't twelve episodes of "if I do this move then he will do that move, which means I have to do this move instead!"

>this is what kids think looks "cool" now days

Sup Forums has changed

you just put more money in and better animation comes out, especially if you use animators from countries with greater costs of living
everyone knows this

Kishimoto hand-picked Pierrot and the director to handle Naruto because he's an animation/sakuga nerd, partially due to Akira. Oda is not as savvy in that regard, and Toriyama is from a different generation who couldn't care less.

Kishi only requested for Tetsuya Nishio to handle the anime character designs, that was the extent of his request.

Honestly, although they couldn't be sure how long it would last initially, I feel a lot of companies would feel confident resource-wise to pick up an adaptation of shounen battle manga for a high viewership time slot. Even now, it isn't uncommon for studios to invest in complete flops (see nekogami yaoyorozu)

Naruto was the son of the 4th hokage.
How cool is that?

memes

>try to make my little brother watch naruto
>he watched the first episode and then goes back to watching random shit on youtube
The new generation doesn't appreciate art

just naruto alone was 200 something eps., takes time to get into it. Not sure how it relates to the newer generation, but since it takes time, it doesn't give immediate "reward", so it's not worth it.

I'm not praising naruto though. I liked it, then they completely killed it for me with all the bullshit fillers and half-assed animation.

I remember myself being hyped about it when it aired for the first time. The least he could do was watch more than one episode. Seriously the first episode is good and so are the ones that follow.

For me, I don't remember how I felt, but the friend who told me to watch it kept saying that it'll be good and give it some time. It was the very first anime I watched, it was new for me, I liked it.

Now I have bittersweet memories of the whole show.

Those days were gone. Not racist, these are newbie Penoys or new generation of Filipino animators, they need experience. All of Toei Phil. episodes have QUALITY in it, watch Dragon Ball Super episode 5 not BD ver., they tried to make a key animation, but failed horribly.

These people are underpaid sweatshop workers than those japs who're also claiming that they're also underpaid. Newbie Koreans are much worse, watch QUALITY Code by A1 Pictures, corrupt A1 business men tried to sell these cheap anime to poor countries in SEA.

>>try to make my little brother watch naruto
>>he watched the first episode and then goes back to watching random shit on youtube
>The new generation doesn't appreciate art

Naruto is the superior shonen and the guys who work know it.
One Pice and Dragon Ball Super are utter shit so they know that putting effort is meaningless. You better believe it baby

Is this how autism works ?

underage narutards stop posting

samefagging

Sup Forums will bully

low budget toei, is more entertaining than nardo or blech can ever be

let it die retards

>underage narutards
Most underage fans of naruto are 18 now. Because it went on for more than a decade and a half

That's because there was a sudden spike in sales during Marineford since everyone knew the timeskip was coming and they wanted to catch up.

Weekly reminder that a 15 year old Obito fought on par with Minato.

How did Pierrot go from making classics to shit shounens?

and got Rekt and lost 9 tails.

The fuck you talking about? One Piece has plenty of filler, sometimes even within arcs.
The problem is Japan's entire TV airing deal is fucking absurd so they're forced to keep up, but Oda is forced to take a break every other week because the editors are afraid he'll work himself to death.
Then you and (you) got the fact Toei has like 5 weekly TV projects constantly going every year and all their other various projects that budget is stretched paper thin.

It should have never been close.

these episodes are 1 every 50, and rest is utter trash

He only managed to job Minato because of eyehax and even with that he got Rasengan'd, lost an arm, got stabbed and lost his bijuu which was the shit he was after for.

The guy got royally fucked IMO.

This is a better fight anyway

two drunk fucks fighting for the last pint in the pub.

Drunk fight and the beginning were awesome.

The power part was alright but i personally didn't like it all that DB shit.

Chikara was meant to be a movie, but it was utter trash so it scrapped and remade into filler arc.

Obito was baiting Kakashi, noway Kakashi can have a chance vs Obito at cqc at that point in the series.

I love that they played Need To Be Strong again

Didn't he need Kakashi to rin his heart to get rid of Madara's curse seal?

the reason is: pay is shit and work hours are literally killing you.
Studio Perriot recently had 1 of there animators die at work, from overworking.

I liked the fight until they started using bijou and susano. That just killed it for me in that instant.

I stopped watching Nando near the end of the Chunni exams, but even by that point there'd been some great fights. The end of the Zabuza arc had some great animation and the Rock Lee/Garry fight is still one of the best in the series.

He only fought on par with Minato for 10seconds, before he got destroyed so hard and so bad that he literally sepuka'ed his whole clan out of shame