Can anybody explain Jordan Peterson's explanation of the "wage gap" to me? I don't understand how numbers work

Can anybody explain Jordan Peterson's explanation of the "wage gap" to me? I don't understand how numbers work.

youtube.com/watch?v=aMcjxSThD54

Other urls found in this thread:

youtu.be/7u23AgFe7MI
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omitted-variable_bias
scholar.harvard.edu/goldin/publications
scholar.harvard.edu/files/goldin/files/gkob_longerversion.pdf
youtu.be/BDj_bN0L8XM?t=2m9s
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_billionaires
fortune.com/2017/06/07/fortune-500-women-ceos/
youtube.com/watch?v=G_sGn6PdmIo
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

women generally arent interested in/capable of high stress/difficult/dangerous/highly competitive jobs

those kinds of jobs often happen to be the ones that pay the most

ok?

If you've ever played league of legends its kinda like how no female players ever make it to challenger.

Multivariate analysis means considering many variables to find the cause of disparity between "wage and gender"

He's pointing out that prejudice against women is really an insignificant reason women earn less than men on average

women generally are shit leaders in a hierarchical system
they do much better just creating social order at every level of said hierarchy

So there are significant and insignificant reasons? And how much do either of these cause?

When you compare women and men of the same age, experience, workload, exact job type, negotiating ability, etc. the wage gap becomes miniscule or non-existent.

Obama, the democrats and all feminists have been using average salaries of ALL men and women either in a particular field or overall.

They just pointed to this stat and claimed that most of that gap was sexism.

It's absolutely crazy for entire governments to perpetuate such misinformation.

>When you compare women and men of the same age, experience, workload, exact job type, negotiating ability, etc. the wage gap becomes miniscule or non-existent.
How much is it when you do all that?

Peterson didn't reference a particular study but he presents a compelling case that the nature of women is the most significant reason
They choose lower-pay fields
They prioritize child rearing
They are more agreeable, and put up with lower pay

This is all on average, not every particular woman

>arbitrarily divide people into 2 uneven groups
>calculate their average wage
>surprise surprise, they aren't the same

about $3.50

So can we put a number to this?

Where did you find that number?

>Where did you find that number?
Classic G*rman sense of humor.

I'm not aware of numbers but you can search for the studies

construction $50k-$79k(Glassdoor est.)
Cashier $19k-$25k(Glassdoor est.)

Construction work is physically demanding and sometimes dangers (pays More)

Cashier Not physically demanding not dangers and pays less.

>I'm not aware of numbers
Thanks ... does anyone know the real numbers? I like to know things exactly.

>Can anybody explain Jordan Peterson's explanation of the "wage gap" to me?
it's impossible to explain because there is not enough information in the vid to understand what the fuck he's talking about. he claims there's a pay gap but it's not due to discrimination. he alludes to a meta analysis which concludes that the disparity is based on 19 variables, of which he describes six: agreeableness, conscientiousness, intelligence, discrimination, industriousness, gender self segregation.
he doesn't explain if the study includes third world countries or if it's limited to north america and europe. the interviewer is a dishonest cunt that should ashamed of the way she conducted the interview. if you want answers to your question, you need to find the studies he used for the purpose of the interview.

Women work less, and do lower quality work. We all know this is the real reason for the wage gap.

And before you start demanding more women get hired in construction. Ask the woman to carry a sheet of 5/8 th Sheetrock

youtu.be/7u23AgFe7MI

>due to discrimination
*due to gender*

autoportretul unei fete cuminti

Does anyone know any of these studies?

Pic related is all you need to understand. Very smart (and thus successful) women are extremely rare.

Okay, so the studies that show large gaps take ALL jobs and average them together
Studies that show smaller gaps take SIMILAR jobs and average them together
Studies that show the smallest gap take IDENTICAL jobs/education/duration of employment/performance and average them together.
Studies that take all those variants as well as singling out single, childless women show that women make MORE than men.

This is what he means by multivariant analysis. The people who spread the wage gap myth use one variant: gender. The more specific you get the better women do until they are out competing men based only on affirmative action and corporate sluttery.

Claudia Goldin, an economics professor at Harvard University. Goldin spoke to Stephen Dubner, the journalist behind the popular podcast "Freakanomics," in a segment about what really causes the gap.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omitted-variable_bias

Can you show any such study?

>Claudia Goldin
scholar.harvard.edu/goldin/publications

Women make choices that result in them making less money than men on average. This is not inherently bad and just means they choose other things over their career

Do you mean this one:
scholar.harvard.edu/files/goldin/files/gkob_longerversion.pdf
It say:
>About 44 percent of the
expanding gender earnings gap is due to disproportionate shifts by men into higher-earning
positions
What's with the other 56%?

2017
Goldin C, Kerr SP, Olivetti C, Barth E. The Expanding Gender Earnings Gap: Evidence from the LEHD-2000 Census. American Economic Review: Papers and Proceedings. 2017;107 (5) :110-114

The gender earnings gap is an expanding statistic over the lifecycle. We use the LEHD Census 2000 to understand the roles of industry, occupation, and establishment 14 years after leaving school. The gap for college graduates 26 to 39 years old expands by 34 log points, most occurring in the first 7 years. About 44 percent is due to disproportionate shifts by men into higher-earning positions, industries, and firms and about 56 percent to differential advances by gender within firms. Widening is greater for married individuals and for those in certain sectors. Non-college graduates experience less widening but with similar patterns.

accounting for everything 4-7% in all fields. suggested that it may be because women don't negotiate for much better pay as often as men, but the reality is there probably is some miniscule ammount of overal sexism going on since; when it comes to each industry, the wage gap itself is sometimes different, and may even be in womens favor.

Is there any women here in this pol?

>about 56 percent to differential advances by gender within firms.
What does this mean?


So it's a lot of factors, and real sexism is a really small one?
Can you show me a study that says that?

Women chose jobs with less hours and less travel.
Young women earn more money then young men.
Women who have kids work less hours take less demanding jobs and earn less.

If your not smart enough to find, read and understand the papers I'm not going to waist my time explaining it to you.

Women are like 80% as efficient as men so they don't deserve equal pay anyways

Source: every office job I've ever had

Women constantly look for the easy way out of most tasks at work and ask for help 10x more often than men.

It is very well researched and documented that above a certain level (around $50-60k) money doesn't actually buy happiness.

Women are smart enough to realize this and thus see no benefit in putting in 120 hours a week to be the CEO of a top company.

Well there's literally laws preventing discriminatory pay so the onus is on people making the claim that sexism is the reason for earnings gap.

>was making 60k 5 years ago
>now making 120k and a lot happier
Dont strive to be better, goy

I'm just summarizing JBP's argument. I make 90k a year and I don't plan on stopping here.

youtu.be/BDj_bN0L8XM?t=2m9s

Jordan "Biodiversity Denial" Peterson

>Can anybody explain Jordan Peterson's explanation of the "wage gap" to me? I don't understand how numbers work.

Just because you get paid less doesn't necessirely mean its because someone is being cheap on you, the other guy might effectively work 50-80 hours a week against your 20-45 hours and they require less support utilities to keep them effective..

Or their hourly vs your hourly output might simply be more in measurable way

That's a youtube clip, not a study ...

>It is very well researched and documented that above a certain level (around $50-60k) money doesn't actually buy happiness.
>Women are smart enough to realize this and thus see no benefit in putting in 120 hours a week to be the CEO of a top company.


MUauahahhaah WHAT??

>Women are smart enough to realize this and thus see no benefit in putting in 120 hours a week to be the CEO of a top company.

>complain women can't make it to the top
>smart enought to realize
>don't put in the effort
>complain
>smart

>the amount of times the interviewer tries to strawman with "So you're saying that..."
fucking astounding. I would love to get a count on how many time that phrase is used in the 29 minutes interview. How is this not immediately dismissed as an unsuccessful smear campaign by any rational, logical person?

>How is this not immediately dismissed as an unsuccessful smear campaign by any rational, logical person?

It is, the problem is half of the population have IQ below 100

Wage gap is a statistical phenomena. Therefore to argue about it you have to pick average or median woman - trying to argue "but look, there are women who aren't like that"(which is something the interviewer is trying to do) is pointless as there are also women who earn more money than men. The idea of wage gap being caused solely by bias, is simply stupid because it absolutely ignores the mentioned qualities. The average or median woman:
>works less hours than average/median man
>chooses(IMPORTANT! It's a choice!) worse-paying field of study
>isn't as aggressively job-hopping or insisting on getting a raise

And these are only the characteristics that influence them as employees. For managerial positions there's more. Now the point his interviewer is trying to make and the rebuttal he had and failed to deliver is that businesses are "set-up" to promote men at cost of women is that free market caused this. This is something he says, what he failed to deliver is that free market generally promotes efficiency(in earning money), therefore you can assume that there's an "evolution" happening, except instead of species, it's the business model that changes. As it happens, the businesses with male-style management and organisation made it big and woman-style ones didn't most likely because male-style management is more effective.

OF COURSE you can argue about exceptions to no end but the reason for "wage gap" in statistics is caused by many variables(some of which I've mentioned) and bias is just tiny, little miniscule one. If it was the major reason then the company that hires only women because they can pay them less would become extremely successful(spending anywhere from 8% to 27% less on wages in sectors where outsourcing is impossible), therefore becoming the go-to business model. This however, isn't happening.

>What does this mean?
it means that it's pretty complicated. the gap for college grads 26-39 expands by 34 log points, (base is not given) most occurring in the first 7 years (presumably they start at the same salary and then it diverges over time) 44% of that change is due to disproportionate shifts by men into higher-earning positions, industries, and firms (men for reason not given are seeking out highest paid positions accounting for 44% of the variance over time)) about 56 percent to differential advances by gender within firms. (56% of the 34 log point variance is men being promoted more than women within companies over time) non college grads experience less variance over time but no figures are given.
didn't read the study, btw.

So we're still pretending the OP is just innocently asking a question, and not leftist trying to prove a point?

president of xerox is a black woman

>Can anybody explain Jordan Peterson's explanation of the "wage gap" to me? I don't understand how numbers work.
You're as stupid as she is, then.

...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_billionaires

fortune.com/2017/06/07/fortune-500-women-ceos/

You don't get it at all.

Partly understand.

I'm really starting to worry about Sup Forums.
For some reason I thought most people here understood this shit. The good news is that at least the people itt are asking, and trying to figure it out.

Oh come on Nessie! you should know it

And if I'm a leftist trying to prove a point, that means it's ok if you can't explain it to me?

That looks like a bloke.

The same reason there is hardly any women involved with crypo currency. There is nothing keeping them from learning about it or mining it or simply buying it and reselling it.

Explain it for us then.

If you didn't understand it just from that interview he did with the relentlessly baiting slag, you might be beyond the help of mortals, m8.

You are an idiot. We dont waste time with idiots.

Then I'm sure you'll be able to explain it easily?

why feminists always crying about needing more women in tech and such.

Why are none wanting more women in plumbing, construction, oil rig jobs, lumberjacks, etc.//???

you do realize you can get jailed for saying this in britain? they can ask Sup Forums for your IP

>ask Sup Forums for your IP
good luck, I'm behind 7 genders.

women in tech are some of the most maladjusted women i've ever seen from personal experience

you would never marry one of these freaks

Men and women are different dumb fuck.
When given equal opportunity like we have in the west, women and men choose different jobs and this means the majority of women do not go for high positions in companies.
So you have overwhelming men in high ceo positions as opposed to women, because they CHOOSE to.
And because of this if you compare averages of wages, on average men take higher paying and harder jobs and earn more because of this.
It's not hard you lobotomized shitter.

I detect your snark, but it's warranted, so I'll try to make amends by attempting to explain. The choices of the average woman reflects the results they receive in the competitive world of business, careers and jobs. The average woman is not very disagreeable or competitive and as a result, they are more inclined to accept the position they have where they work and not strive for a higher position. While this is not true of all women, the women who are disagreeable and competitive enough to compete do tend to achieve top positions. This is all normal. Women are meant to not be very disagreeable so they can be what a child needs; a loving mother. Each of the two genders, on the average, are simply serving towards what is their biological necessity and role in life that is required of them. Outliers will always exist, but outliers are outside the average and are not in supply of a greater quantity than the average, so outliers do not disprove the "rule."
I hope that helps. That's as clear as I can put it.

>litterally links you to the part where it tells you the names of the two studies
are you ESL?

>maddox post 2010
>reasonable

Jeez

he may be a giant cuck but that doesn't make him wrong about everything

This. There are way more extremely smart men than women
Wait no nevermind it's actually just sexism, we need to enforce 50/50 gender ratios for top positions :^)

Well.. it changes the situation. If you're someone who's genuinely curious then it's much easier to explain it as you would be willing to listen. If you're already opposed to the idea, it's not so much leading a horse to water as trying to drag it by it's tail. It's seems like you're unwilling to drink the water here so it begs the question of what's the point of even trying.

It's more like you are trying to prove your position by showing how others are unable to refute it. But as was said earlier, the burden of proof is actually on you to show that it exists and not the other way around.

Here's the overly-simplified, for dummies version.


Women are payed less than men for two reasons:

1. They work less hours overall because they are more family focused than men.

2. They do not do very well in positions of upper management due to females' biological tendency to try and make everyone happy.


That's it. All the tears and twitter shaming and shirtless protests boiled down to it's basic elements.

all this will result in is women taking over the right wing positions to fuck the right over and terror strickenly obeying everything the left says for fear of a "right wing terrorist assassination"

feminism was always designed to help the patriarchy

Mostly it has to do with laziness in replying. Also you have to consider how this place has fallen from grace from the past.

Reasons for wage gap, each on its own only accounts for a small part of the equation:

>Disagreeableness
Better in regards to negotiating power, and women are more agreeable than men
>Conscientiousness
consists of orderliness and industriousness. Industriousness is the main predictor in pay, and men are higher avg in industr while women are higher in ordr

With the two above traits (Consc. agreeab.), they are all standard bell curves that are shifted. They don't differ much on the average, but the extreme ends this produces the same effect as the IQ distribution and there are much more men proportionately than women.

>Intelligence
As measured by IQ. The average IQ is the same roughly in men and women in respect to each race [since racial IQs vary too], but the standard deviation is higher in men than in women. Women cluster around the mean where men are spread out, so there's more men at the top AND bottom of intelligence than women.
>Personal choice
When given complete freedom of occupation choice, men choose differently than women. In general people choose "people" jobs versus "thing" jobs, often being lower pay and stress. Also child rearing cuts into time for work, and prolonged work absence reduces pay rates
>Gender
Plays a small role in perception, as women are not as physically intimidating, and can't be taken as seriously.

Reminds me of those giant ant-nigger-things in that one manga I never bothered looking for the name of.

Oh shit can't unsee.

Shit we can watch a black man do it over 30 years ago.

youtube.com/watch?v=G_sGn6PdmIo

I know how much you libcucks have trouble arguing against a man with brown skin since they're suppose to be your voter base.

>As measured by IQ. The average IQ is the same roughly in men and women in respect to each race [since racial IQs vary too], but the standard deviation is higher in men than in women. Women cluster around the mean where men are spread out, so there's more men at the top AND bottom of intelligence than women.
almost no one on this board believes women are equal in intelligence to men even on average

>high stress/difficult/dangerous/highly competitive jobs

I'm not interested in those kinds of jobs, either

>wage gap

If you're receiving a 'wage' not a 'salary' then you'll get the same amount of money as anyone else with the same job title, meaning the average woman is overpaid because they will not do the same workload at all.

>In general people choose "people"
In general women choose**

Depends on the study. Some I think show the average varying 5 IQ in favor of men. But when arguing this to a complete normie, its preferable to give them some ground saying "on average men and women are the same" in that regard, but explain the deviation differences. As for the other personality traits, they seem pretty self-evident regarding behavior in men and women that a reasonable person would be an idiot to ignore completely.
Like agreeableness, its generally noticeable that women are more emotionally perceptual than men.

As with any personality trait, there is more variance within a group than between averages of groups. Regarding those types of jobs, you have to be pretty special regardless of gender to actually want them. Predominantly at them you basically only have to care that you're getting paid more than the guy next to you to give yourself the positive emotional kickback and sacrifice your entire personal life to actually achieve it.

did you remember to clean your room today, op?

Breitbart did this same article like 4 years ago

he's totally wrong at 3:40 already, what a dumb point and he saved face by literally admitting that he's only referring to stupid people.

lol

Not him, and IMO the wage gap is a myth, but if you’re going to chastise someone for being stupid at least have the self awareness to use proper fucking grammar and spelling.

>t women are more emotionally perceptual than men.
elaborate on this stamement
>some studies show women are inferior
and some studies also show that women have the higher average, you wont see them peddled here however.

>elaborate on this statement
Its the definition of agreeableness itself.

I think you mean servile?

Everyone dismissed your point, but these are scienceless retards, I know what study you are talking about.
But i don’t believe women don’t choose these because they’re smarter, rather, I believe women find achievement satisfaction differently than men do.

I wouldn't post again if I said something this Goddamn stupid either.

Women don't work becuase they are LAZY. I can count on one fucking hand the number of women I worked with who had value to the company over the last 30 years of my life.

no, women don't work because they are smart

I guess that's why they forced their clits into the workforce and destroyed the US economy along side under the table spics.

Men would do any job for the right price. You'd never see a woman draining septic tanks even for $1000

>how much you bullshit people to fit in is a positive criteria for how straightforward and honest you are
what a load of crap