>yfw Rome was literally the high point of western civilization
>tfw christianity destroyed the roman empire
If the Romans exterminated every last jew and Christian, not only would the empire still exist today, we'd be 500-1000 years ahead in technology.
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reminder the last pagan emperor literally offered to build the third temple for the Jews to ally against Christianity
typical delusional leaf
the last pagan emperor was also an educated philosopher trying to reverse the degeneration of the empire
the first christian empire brought in barbarians as federate mercenary troops and have sex with his mother
plus every single christian emperor was horrible, Theodosius, Valentinian, Romulus Augustus and etc. They literally destroyed the empire through incompetence.
typically delusional christcuck
Reminder that the last pagan emperor (Julian the Apostate) wanted to rebuild Jewish temple of Solomon.
>Julian thought to rebuild at an extravagant expense the proud Temple once at Jerusalem, and committed this task to Alypius of Antioch. Alypius set vigorously to work, and was seconded by the governor of the province; when fearful balls of fire, breaking out near the foundations, continued their attacks, till the workmen, after repeated scorchings, could approach no more: and he gave up the attempt.
all civilizations collapse, Rome was on the way out regardless
Fuck, I haven't noticed your reply.
Sorry for being redundant.
If you think it was Christianity that destroyed Rome..... You..... Are.... A clueless........ Idiot.
Or a shill.... Take your pick.
>the last pagan emperor was also an educated philosopher
That doesn't change the fact that he destroys your claim that paganism is inherently anti-Jewish.
Also Eastern Roman Empire was around for 1000 years after fall of the West.
If Christianity was only, or even main reason for the destruction of Rome, East would have followed shortly after West. In fact, it could be argued that ERE was MORE Christian than West.
Or that the pagan emperors since the cathrage wars engaged in wide spread hedonism. The Roman people lost a sense of fear, much like America today. Where pleasure took precident over the greater needs of the community.
The sources on that temple thing are mostly angry christians who wanted to defame the pagan Emperor
besides, what they did to the library of alexandria was the greater crime
Look at China, Rome would have been the China to Europe.
Except it did, and i'm not clueless, i'm a historian. All of the historical evidence demonstrates christianity destroyed the empire.
>Christanity is the fault
>implying the Western Empire wasn't corrupted to the core
>implying it wasn't it's own fault
>Eastern Empire lives for another 1000 years despite being christian
gtfo faggot
if.....you....overuse....periods.....like.....this....You.....are....a....fucking.........stupid....................................................boomer......................................................................................................................................................
>western empire
>eastern empire
It was a Christian who divided the empire
Diocletian had managed to repair the damage, and the christians basically shit on his legacy.
The eastern empire lived on because it was richer.
>comparing Rome to ant people
While I agree with you, they also did their fair share of fucking up. For instance, other european tribes (mostly semi-civilized) lived in relative peace with each other. That's when the romans attacked. Keep in mind they played dirty games, using D&C wherever they could etc. And like any civilization since, they depended on slave labor. The second they halted their expansionism they were doomed.
But I agree with you, Christianity made it much worse
Not about the ant people
China was the centralized state that basically controlled the eastern pacific. It never disintegrated completely. Rome could have became that to Europe, never disintegrating, leading Europa to greatness.
At one point over a 130 million people lived there, they used concrete, had sewers and running water. A man in britain could enjoy Italian olives and Chinese silk while drinking Spanish wine.
Drinking wine all day and fucking hookers hmm i wonder why they collapsed.
>centralized state
>not about ant people
Christians persecuted Jews after becoming the main religion of Rome in 380 and Jews were very privileged in pagan Rome.
christianity was a sedative for a dying people being raped by smelly german niggers. you cant really worship a god of war with gusto if youre a cuck, so might as well go with the "forgive your rapist and you'll go to paradise" jewish martyr.
Yeah not many people realise this. You also know the vikings weren't just savage pagans. They battled for 300 years to protect themselves from the genocidal Christians.
Rome was centralized too
without centralization you get the dark ages and feudal hellholes
people literally went from living in concrete apartments to living in shit shacks farming dirt
>implying
The Christians were biased against jews, but it was the Pagans who destroyed the temple. Jews were hated and were an under class in pagan rome, the privileges they enjoyed was literally just the right to trade with merchants.
Christianity led to Islam too, that's undeniable.
What I cited here: is from
>A personal friend of his [Julian], Ammianus Marcellinus
At least according to the wikipedia
>inb4 trusting (((wikipedia)))
>Rome would have been the China to Europe
So that it would be stuck in a cycle of constant breaking apart followed by rebuilding, remain stagnant until some barbarian dynasty takes over and then still be stagnant, so that it will be laughing stock and pushed around by the entire world in its final days, until it breaks completely and gets stuck in 20 years of civil war until commies take over?
I don't have to listen to this Feudal-phobic hatespeech tbqh
>If the Romans exterminated every last jew and Christian, not only would the empire still exist today, we'd be 500-1000 years ahead in technology.
Yeah, it's not like the collapse of the empire happened because of economic, military and social reasons too
>Christianity led to Islam too
>Success of a monotheistic religion inspired Mohammed to start his own
ftfy
No, the Pharaohs should have gathered the forces of the Middle East and wiped the Hyksos off the planet, destroyed Babylon, wiped out every Sumerian, torched the lands of the Peleset, Tjekker, Shekelesh, Denye(n), and Weshesh, and find anyone that associated with snakes.
Had that happened this world would be a completely difference place
>trusting (((wikipedia)))
I read in another book that Ammianus Marcellinus was a christian apologist who was sucking up because the emperor after Julian was christian
Rome wouldn't have fell to nomad dynasties though. In fact lets remember that the Chinese couldn't stop the huns, but the Romans did in a pitched battle.
Westerners have a better military sense than ant people. Rome was a martial empire, while China was a scholar/commerce empire. Rome would have ended up colonizing the new world, africa and who knows where else.
richer than who? the sassanids? the chinks?
My version is remotely possible
after Diocletian the empire became sustainable, the Egyptians are conquer fodder and lost to the hittites.
It was only successful because of constantine, and it wasn't even successful because it brought down the western empire.
The Romans were the richest empire in the world, making more GDP than China. The Byzantines were certainly richer than the Sassanids, but not the Chinese.
>muh christianity destroyed rome
Why are you using debunked talking points from a fat manlet during the Enlightenment. In the age of information there's literally no excuse to being retarded. Read more, leaf.
It's not even Gibbons at this point
all of the academic sources confirm my point. Christian apologists just chimp out and scream muh gibbons whenever this argument happens.
Forcing christianity caused 3 civil wars that crippled the west. The Christian dynasties were also the worst, and the church even starting usurping their power.
How the fuck have you spent any time here and yet you think this? Rome collapsed because they gave up every other value for pleasure. Hedonism. You're just another atheist with an axe to grind with Christians based off of your limited interaction with them and your limited perspective of them, and now adding, your limited understanding of history.
You think I'm gonna let this fly on a Sunday, leaf? Sage. Sort yourself out.
From lead based cups even.
I'm actually a historian, and what you're saying is complete and total bullshit. You do realize that over time the Roman empire became poorer and poorer right? It became Christian in 395, which obviously should have stopped the "hedonism" right?
No, the Christian emperors were retards who listen to bishops first and their generals second. When their pagan generals actually won their battles, they got scared and had them assassinated.
Then some total retard named Theodosius decided everyone HAD to be christian and made paganism illegal. There were religious civil wars, massacres and genocides. It divided the empire and fucked everything up.
I'm don't have "limited" interaction with christians. I was raised a catholic, went to sunday school, was confirmed and everything. I did it for my grandparents because it was pretty obvious to me it's an institution of bullshit. Why could constantine declare himself the 13th apostle?
>last 100 years were christian
>high point of western civ
by what metric leaflet
>da reason why rom fell was becas of kristianiti duuuuuuh
>I read in another book
Name? I'm curious.
>Rome wouldn't have fell to nomad dynasties though.
That's speculation. In truth, we don't know. Historical events are too complex to accurately predict.
>Rome would have ended up colonizing the new world, africa and who knows where else.
Just like Christian Europe did? Well, that's not really saying much.
>A self hating ex-Catholic who attacks Christians and doesn't apply context to the situation in realizing that many who claim to be of the faith do not actually practice it and then uses that as the basis for everything declared
Imagine mah shock
I btfo'd all of the christcuck arguments
turns out forcing a religion on a mostly pagan empire causes civil wars
culturally, and in terms of relative power, geopolitical influence
which is why neoclassicism was the most important and prestigious school of art in western history
Christianity is weaponized Judaism.
those aren't metrics bitch
Why am I self hating?
I love myself, I'm 6'1 and I'm married at the age of 22. I even had my BA and am working on my masters.
I don't have a problem with people believing their own religion, I have a problem with fanatics destroying glorious empires.
>name
The world of late antiquity I think
>thats speculation
To some extent, but based on their record. They beat the Huns, the Parthians and the Magyars. Which were nomad horseriders
>just like Christian europe did
But that means the industrial revolution would have happened in the 1000s and the dark ages wouldn't have occurred. Rome was actually pretty close in terms of an industrial revolution.
>sandkike religion that treats their followers as slaves and cucks
>brings nothing but discord and turns progressive places into shitholes
wow what a shocker
>I was raised a catholic, went to sunday school
>I did it for my grandparents because it was pretty obvious to me it's an institution of bullshit.
Here is exactly your problem. You were forced to publicly profess something you didn't really believe, so you grew to hate it. Professing religion seems like a pointless chore to you.
Stop wanking off to weird British romanophilic shows. Really it is not healthy for you
The Turkroach killed the Roman Empire
>tfw the most powerful and prosperous nation that has ever existed is one where presidents kiss the Bible after their inauguration
Really makes me think
But it's not for a lack of trying
I've read lots of theology, St Aquinas and Augustine for example. I've simply never believed in the metaphysical. I don't hate christianity by any means, I think it's inspired many great works.
But in terms of the Roman Empire, I think it's undeniable that Constantine and Theodosius caused the collapse.
>America
>most powerful
Not even close to Rome
Also the current state of it today shows you where kissing the bible gets you
>tfw christianity destroyed the roman empire.
Actually, the Roman empire destroyed itself from within.there were many factors, including inflation and war. However, one of the major reasons was that the romans all poisoned themselves. Due to their inability to purify water, the primay drink was wine. With the increase in population the sewers became flooded. Blah blah blah.
Tl;dr
Op is a faggot that does not understand the broader reality of history
>inability to purify water
that's popular history bullshit
next you'll say it was the lead pipes
they destroyed themselves because christian emperors made paganism illegal causing civil wars. Plus constantine recruited germanic barbarians and allowed them into the empire.
You already said as much. I shouldn't have to explain your own contextual details of speech to you, leaf who claims to be a historian. You say that you don't have a problem with people practicing their own religion and that you have a problem with fanatics destroying glorious empires, but instead of looking at the individual fanatics in detail, I see you making and spreading generalizations based off the actions made by those who used Christianity to further their own aims, and did not truly follow the Word.
America had sole power over the world at one point, they just didn't exercise it directly like the Romans by taking the land. Also in contrast with Rome, the US followed strong morals rather than indulging in degeneracy.
>"educated" leaf doesn't realize he lives in an American protectorate
>R-Rome was more powerful
illogical
The roman empire still existed after rome fell dumbass.
america could have taken over the entire world after ww2 if they had just put in some effort
Doubtful. With the new nuclear arsenal we had, maybe. But could you imagine an invasion on russia? Or all of south america? Highly unlilkely
...
nobody else knew how to make nukes, if you had got on that, you could have taken over all earth.
your government were all marxist sympathizers and didn't care that the Soviets ruined half of Europe
Western civilization is literally built on Christianity you retarded pagan "historian".
Or maybe it was never our war to begin with and we just joined to help and prevent an attack on our homeland, after we were attacked by japan.
Same with canada.
>But it's not for a lack of trying
I never said you weren't.
The thing is - you don't come to religion by trying to understand. You come to religion, because it is calling to you, because (not too sound like a romantic) you already know, deep inside, that it's real. It is a gift of God.
Not because you've read the Bible, or work of this or that theologian.
These are good for growing in Faith, not finding it. If one reads them without the Faith, they feel empty.
And Faith, frankly, is found interiorly, not exteriorly. Sure, some theologian may write good points, but unless they resonate within you, they fall flat.
>I don't hate christianity by any means
Then I might have misjudged you.
>I think it's undeniable that Constantine and Theodosius caused the collapse
That's something to discuss.
That someone is Christian, doesn't guarantee him as a good or bad ruler. They are other qualities in a man that influence it.
On easter, we celebrate a rabbit. Christmas? Thats a pagan holiday.
Stop embarassing yourself. Christianity has always had pagan influences
Daily reminder that you are fucking retarded and wihout Christianity the modern western world wouldn’t exist
>If the Romans exterminated every last jew and Christian, not only would the empire still exist today, we'd be 500-1000 years ahead in technology.
retard alert
1) dumb leaf or bait
2) rome was probably saved by christianity
3) romans actually held back technological progress in a number of ways, like no joke, had the romans not made prolific overkill with the use of slaves there would have likely been a industrial revolution
>we just joined to help and prevent an attack on our homeland, after we were attacked by japan.
lmao
>christianity destroyed the roman empire
>not corrupt, inept leadership and mass migrations
*another
Prove me wrong
>be christcuck
>invite millions of not working niggers and snowniggers because the jew said so
>it's not the christians fault
ww2 was a predatory war against the reactionary forces in Europe by Leftist Anglos and Marxist Soviets
Then why didnt the US join immediately? France and britain were getting their asses kicked. America didnt do shit until we were threatened.
>invite
Those migrations were hardly "invited". Stop projecting yourself onto Rome.
>invite
Are we talking about modern Germany or the Roman Empire?
The corrupt, inept leaders thought they could by Germanic loyalty, so they did nothing to keep the barbarian invaders out, at which point they pulled the Empire apart from the inside out.
The same thing happened in the Eastern Empire when Slavs and Turks barged in and the Greco-Romans didn't repel them.
*buy Germanic loyalty
had to brainwash the populace to fight for one thing, and for another they only entered when it became absolutely necessary to maintain their interests in Europe. had nothing to do with protecting themselves, there was no credible threat from fucking Japan
It's the way the religion was misused in order to get people to do what some powerful people wanted them to do by manipulation. A similar thing is happening today in the world with science, but you probably won't be willing to admit that until it is far too late. When people in the future read about the collapse of society they will consider it the science worshipers fault just like you blame the Christians for the past.
No, the Scottish enlightenment was the high point.
Except they destroyed nearly one third of our navy. Also, after Japan attacked us, Germany was pretty much forced to declare war on the united states since japan was their ally.
Brainwashing my ass. Modern brainwashing wasnt developed until the late 50s
What is history
they were given citizenship in hopes the would actually do something
it's pretty much inviting them to stay
japan could never have invaded the US, this isnt even debatable.
Brainwashing was developed before ww1 and used heavily to make Americans fight in that war. See the literal propaganda department in the US government and the work of Edward Bernays
No, it's cucking out after they've forced their way in.
Which is why what's happening in Germany today is so similar, except at least people outside the corridors of power in Rome actually had a spine.
>>tfw christianity destroyed the roman empire
It literally didn't. Prove it. Wtf even is this post you didn't back this up with any kind of reasoning, whatsoever. Get off of pol and get back to fucking your dog. You're out of your element here, leaf.
...
Not all propaganda is brainwashing.
If japan didnt impose a threat to the soverignty of the US then why would we even go to war? Stupid arguement. Thats like saying north korea couldnt invade us.
Op has given up their arguement. This thread is now a slide thread. Dont forget to sage
>Not all propaganda is brainwashing.
oh come on dont degrade yourself
>why would we even go to war
You might have noticed that American 'influence', (read:total domination) of the world increased rather a lot after ww2
Multiculturalism destroyed Rome. China is going 4,000 years strong being homogeneous.
>christianity destroyed the roman empire
Wrong. Civil war destroyed it before Christianity was even tolerated. The Empire tore itself to pieces. Christians tried to unify and save what was left.
Except after ww2 we decided to give all the conquored land back.
ITT: germanics that destroyed Rome blame others for the destruction of Rome
ok i give up. america fought ww2 for noble reasons and the American military stationed in Germany today are just on vacation
visiting Rome and learning about all the subversion and misappropriation of old pantheon buildings and monuments for the (((new cult))) was fucking infuriating.
Sounds like Italy today
They did have black soldiers on Hadrian's Wall though