What do you want?
If the world is already perfect and the only thing that can be better is for man to "not sin", why should we go into space? Why live longer? Why do anything at all other than live in a cave and "not sin" ?
What is the end telos of christianity? What is the point?
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to subjugate as many gullible people as possible that will gladly donate money to make themselves feel better
The perfecting of God as a host for his worthy children.
>noah's ark
christianity really is for grown children
This world is in a fallen state, not perfect. Human nature is to sin. The punishment for a single sin is death. How will judgement day go for you? Where is this perfect world that you judge God by anyways, in your head?
>If the world is already perfect
Except it isn't. It was perfect, but became cursed by the original sin (Genesis 3,17-18).
And for the goal, it is reaching the perfect world, by holding faith in Gospel (if you're prot you stop here) and working accordingly to your faith.
>What is the point?
Glorification of God through thanksgiving and supplication. It allows us to enjoy the pleasures of this life without guilt and the sufferings with grace and mercy. In short, love within us and unto our neighbor.
Why do you suppose Christian men aren't the reason for our current scientific knowledge when it is foundational.
All people know about Christianity is memes.
Anyway, the telos of humans is to steward and improve Creation.
By being creative beings, we act as God's scions and icons.
"Sin" is an abrogation of this duty.
>What do you want?
to bring Christianity to everyone else
Works are a fruit of the spirit though. Every saved Prot performs works. We agree on so much, the prot/catholic fights in these threads are manufactured to sew discord.
>why not live in a cave
Matthew 25,14-30 holds the answer.
Shortened version
>It will be as when a man who was going on a journey called in his servants and entrusted his possessions to them. 15 To one he gave five talents; to another, two; to a third, one—to each according to his ability. Then he went away.
>Then the one who had received the one talent came forward and said, ‘Master, I knew you were a demanding person, harvesting where you did not plant and gathering where you did not scatter;25 so out of fear I went off and buried your talent in the ground. Here it is back.’ 26 His master said to him in reply, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I did not plant and gather where I did not scatter? 27 Should you not then have put my money in the bank so that I could have got it back with interest on my return? 28 Now then! Take the talent from him and give it to the one with ten.29 For to everyone who has, more will be given and he will grow rich; but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away.'
God have granted to us our abilities to use them for our benefit, not too waste them away by sitting forever in a cave.
On that which we agree, let us agree and speak as one.
On that which we don't agree, let us hear what the other side says, before making any judgements of their claims.
from the point of orthodox christianity, the goal is THEOSIS.
en.wikipedia.org
basically you prepare yourself to be able to exist with god, and you do that by doing his bidding by ruling over life and space in his name and fighting off your sins and imperfections while you're alive.
God is supreme and almighty and went through intense suffering and died just to save us and show he loves us -> this belief creates men with high self-esteem because they know the most powerful creature in the universe loves them -> this gives men with talent the sense of self-worth they need to reach their full potential -> the men with the most potential make it to the top and get to choose the prettiest wives and are under Christian law ordered to be fruitful and multiply -> genetically gifted society
It's eugenics for general humanity. If we abandon Christianity and give losers free shit we eventually devolve into literal apes who can no longer understand the gospel or be saved.
so this Have we reached an ecumenical council levels of agreement on this matter already?
On the essentials, unity as one, on our differences, liberty, and everything else - charity.
John 17:20-22
gullible suckers
Poor lost soul
because we are meant to leave earth and ascend in a different solar system
what does this mean in practice? And where in the bible are these words used?
>Human nature is to sin
Then why would god create a creature with a disposition towards things that are against his will, rather than good?
Also when did "sin" enter mankind? Was it present when we were australopithecus or some other hominid ancestor? At what point during our genetic lineage did the world all of a sudden change from perfect to imperfect?
And when did this happen, actually, in human history?
So the ultimate perfection is to stay true to the law and not sin? So what point is there in achieving anything at all? If the ultimate and highest peak of human perfection is to not sin, why not just live in a cave where there is 0 chance of sin?
>By being creative beings, we act as God's scions and icons.
But this means nothing in practice. What does "acting as scion" mean when the only guideline is "DON'T SIN" ?
>why not just live in a cave where there is 0 chance of sin?
because we're charged to spread the faith
Ok so the entire goal of existence is for the whole world to become christians?
And everything that doesn't help us to get towards that goal is at best a waste of time and at worst sinful?
And what happens when everyone is converted?
>God have granted to us our abilities to use them for our benefit, not too waste them away by sitting forever in a cave.
All the bible ever mentions is farming the landand surviving, never about technological advancement or going into another planet. Why would we do this if the bible doesn't say 1 word about doing anything other than tilling the land?
>only guideline is "DON'T SIN"
It isn't the only guideline though,
>God blessed them and God said to them: "Be fertile and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it. Have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and all the living things that crawl on the earth."
Genesis 1,28
Also see >And when did this happen, actually, in human history?
6000 yea- Nah, we don't know exact date, but it happened.
"When" is completely irrelevant to the question of what is our goal.
As for "in what point of human history" the answer would be in the very beginning of it.
>Ok so the entire goal of existence is for the whole world to become christians?
the goal is for everyone to act according to God's will or law. bringing everyone into the faith is part of that
>what happens when everyone is converted
then you keep trying to live according to God's will
>never about technological advancement
The Bible never mentions MRIs but we still have them. There's nothing that prevents us from exploring or improving our lot in life so long as we do so in accordance with God's will
>Then why would god create a creature with a disposition towards things that are against his will, rather than good?
>Also when did "sin" enter mankind?
Man was not inherently evil, but he had free will to disobey God (thus committing original sin, that placed him under power of Satan). By that act of Adam, humanity was condemned, forever stained, until Christ sacrifice on the cross washed that stain for believers (so that believer is sanctified as pre-sin Adam was).
>dismissive
We're all expressions of the universe so that it may experience itself
>goal existence is for the whole world to become christians?
Yes, although this will never happen, God hasn't elected everyone for faith and salvation.
>inb4 It's unjust that God hasn't elected everyone!
Read Romans 9,14-21
>And what happens when everyone is converted?
Then everyone can be saved/is saved, and our struggle on this world continues nonetheless, until our time ends, and we are called before judgement.
Every human is a potato of the sun. Believe in yourself and you will find the true bicycle but only if you walk the path of the tendies.
Christianity does not teach that the world is perfect.
>Christianity is bad, you should rather believe in some Nordcuck vikang religion
Fuck off Nordcuck
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
The Bible states that God made Earth and the Universe for HUMANS. Space is OURS of course we could colonize it!
...
>a gommie white knighting for Christianity
I know a passage that will break your world, but please keep fighting for our side until then.
>If the world is already perfect
The fuck gave you that idea? You obviously are clueless on the topic
There is no point. Religion exists solely to convince dumb/ignorant/gullible people that there is a point to their existence so that they will live a pointless life without ever questioning it.
The end game to religion is that we'll all be in a magical realm of eternal bliss, but because that is complete fiction/fantasy there is no actual endgame.
Basically if you are religious you are admitting you're too weak to accept that your life is meaningless so you tell yourself that it's just "God's Plan" for you to work a shitty retail job or to waste your life away in some cubicle working for somebody you'll never meet. Also you get to believe that good old Aunt Suzie will be waiting for you when you die after accomplishing nothing of meaning in your life.
>inb4 delusional religious people try to argue with me so they can preserve their delusions
>I don't know the difference between Communism and NazBol
Amerisharts are truly dumb
Was Jesus a Christian?
I'm sorry about your stroke
Spread the kingdom throughout all creation. (read as universe) become fully a child of God, become a God within Elohim, God family. Continuing creation throughout the universe. The heavens are our inheritance
Punctuation belongs INSIDE quotations. Feels like an anon5 post.
That hammer and sickle is an abomination, you don't know shit if you think communism and Christianity are remotely compatible
He was Jew through and through.
take this shit to X
this is POL
this topic is not POL
GTFO
>Have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and all the living things that crawl on the earth
And what does this mean in practice?
Also, doesn't this EXPLICITLY limit us to planet earth? Wouldn't this be contradictory to space exploration?
>6000 yea
Young earth creationist, fucking lol
So evolution is bullshit? Dinosaurs were bullshit?
>the goal is for everyone to act according to God's will or law. bringing everyone into the faith is part of that
Which brings us back to: don't sin. The only goal worth pursuing? To not sin.
>The Bible never mentions MRIs but we still have them.
Yes because we live by non-biblical impulses, we are a crafty animal and we want to do stuff outside of the bible
> There's nothing that prevents us
And nothing that commands us. At worst the christian view is that all progress from complete misery, suffering and retardation is irrelevant since it doesn't help towards the only goal (to not sin)
>and our struggle on this world continues nonetheless
and for what reason? What's the point of doing anything other than avoiding sin?
this thread is not on the topic of paganism, if you have a folder of pictures of fat people to spam you can go somewhere else. This is spposed to be for serious questions and answers
if the world was created perfect but became imperfect through sin, then surely the only thing to make it go back is to not sin?
>Spread the kingdom throughout all creation. (read as universe)
Where does the bible say this?
> become a God within Elohim
What??? where does the bible say this?
>Continuing creation throughout the universe.
where does the bible say this?
This is cool and all, but the point is that this is not the biblical view.
500 other threads I'm sure you can simply NOT click and post in this one
Nothing on /x/ ever gets answered and you know it.
>Adam and Eve committed evil by disobeying God when they ate from the forbidden fruit that gave them the knowledge of good and evil.
>God punishes them and all of mankind anyway instead of admitting he made a mistake.
>The perfecting of God
This implies God is not already perfect, a contradiction with most forms of Christianity.
Bump
Why do atheists expect perfection in a fallen state? Like communists expect a working and perfect system of government led by corruptible men.
Lol, Adam and Eve weren't perfect they were flawed that is why they failed a very simple test.
>Communism
>Government
No wonder you believe in a sky fairy
First post objectively best post as usual
Either the gommie actually believes this or he is telling an absurdly obvious lie. Either way he's stupid. The only question remaining is "Is the gommie lying?"
Free will is what you hate then, you want to be a robot so you can be blameless.
Yep, give me a sec I'll get them
If god is omniscient there can be no such thing as "free will", and if god isn't omniscient then he isn't all powerful.
>"free will"
Today's common idea of free will is heresy.
Define free will then.
Please clap.
I've always considered it to be the gift of rationality.
>An irrational deity gifted us with rationality.
Top kek.
Space is just natural human development. Why would Christianity object that
The questions you pose are not representative of Christian beliefs. You have no real knowledge or understanding if you pose such stupidity. Just another atheist poses as an innocent question asker to spread false information. And no, I won't help you. You and your ilk are here to mock and not seriously learn about anything.
>An irrational deity
How so?
K first on the running theme of heirs hip and inheritance, we (Christians) are the children of God and heirs apparent. We are to inherit the earth, the kingdom of God/the kingdom of heaven. Now one major fault in traditional doctrine is the idea of heaven. Heaven is not presented as a sperarate place entirely but in Hebrew the heavens refer the stars (the heavens) but also God's presence. We are to inherent the kingdom of heaven the kingdom of God which there is no limit to. We are to inherit God's creation and his domain as heirs apparent
(i'll continue)
Matthew 25:34
"Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
Matthew 5:5
"Blessed are the gentle, for they shall inherit the earth
Ephesians 1:18
I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,
Revelation 21:7
"He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son
Galatians 3:29
And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise
1 Corinthians 6:9
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals
Watching a DVR of last nights basketball game doesn't mean I was playing in it. Sure he's got acts of providence in there, but you only pretend you have no free will so you can feign blamelessness for the fucked up thing you do with your free will.
To build a bigger, better Israel with american shekels. Fuck Christturd threads
See
The idea that Jesus died on a cross so heathens could own the holy land 2000 years later is the most absurd heresy I've ever heard.
Trust me I agree
If God made humans just to fuck them over then that's what he did. If you don't like it, tough shit. That's your problem as an ant.
This may be the dumbest set of questions I've seen on a thread yet.
>Space is just natural human development
It's immensely UN-natural. We can't breathe in space, we would have to really bend the material world in a big way to make non-earth places habitable to us.
The bible says that man should have dominion over THE EARTH, and they believed that the earth was all there was. This is why the bible gives no advice on how to deal with the other 99,9999999999999999% of the universe.
I'm not asking for "help" you fucking goon, you have the opportunity to explain what you believe, if you don't have answers because you haven't thought about it that's fine, but don't pretend to be some sage. I can ask these questions from muslims also, that doesn't mean i want "help" from a muslim
Tied in to inheritance is this very common them of us being the Children of God, Christ being the first fruit of this heirship. Now with the understanding of the Hebrew word Elohim (its the word used in genesis 1 and many more times throughout the Bible) Elohim is a plural word, referring to Father, Son and Holy Spirit, but that is later theologians assumptions as the concept of the trinity is way later and not actually ever mentioned in scripture. The most genuine translation for Elohim is 'God family' of indetermined quantity, but plural. Not to the early Christians and the Hebrews, 'children of God' is an obvious reference to Elohim, the word is even interchangeable. So yes we will be part of Elohim 'God family'/God
>sees rainbow and then complex theological arguments
i just look at the rainbow and that's all I need :). youre getting all worked up and talking about sin. the rainbow means "all the nephilim are dead or locked away for now". nephilim are sin. a hybrid "human" of women and of fallen angels. they'll get released. the entire world will be flooded by fire. but the rainbow means a covenant. that if you believe on Christ you'll live forever
>Watching a DVR of last nights basketball game doesn't mean I was playing in it.
That is not what omniscience means. If God truly is omniscient he would've been able to prevent Adam and Eve from consuming the forbidden fruit, instead he got buttblasted and cursed all of humanity.
>If the world is already perfect
It's not holy crap how did you get that out of the bible?
>the only thing that can be better is for man to "not sin"
You can't ever "not sin." Humans are sinful by nature... as the bible repeatedly says
>why should we go into space?
No reason to religious, or practically. Biggest waste of government money ever
>Why live longer?
You can preach the gospel longer.
>Why do anything at all other than live in a cave and "not sin" ?
Because the Bible specifically and repeatedly calls on you to live socially, be active in your local church, and preach the gospel to all corners of the Earth.
Read the gospels, first. Obviously you've never seriously cracked and read a bible
but is it?
Its usually NYC Jews who make these threads. Jews love atheists and vice versa, they're basically the same demographic voting block and have the same proclivities to degeneracy and subversion
Why would an all loving god wan't to fuck over his own creation,faggot.
Define fuck over. If we were created to entertain him then he probably loves the fuck out of us.
A good verse pointing out the nature of heaven, (not a magical place in another dimension but God's presence in our universe, on earth and the heavens
Revelation 21:1-4
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place[a] of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people,[b] and God himself will be with them as their God.[c] 4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away
Its just light passing through a prism. Dosen't really mean that. Rainbows have been around way before the bible and they will still be around after the abrahamic religions have been completely forgotten and people have adopted new gurus to squabble over.
Yes, we need to address the pq.
>says this without realizing grown ups are more likely to believe it
We are to conform ourselves to Christ. This is the goal. To love thy God with all they heart, mind and soul. By following Christ, we show our love for Him and this leads to decreased sinning. We will not be perfect until he comes again, and when he comes again it wont be as a lowly servant but a King, reigning in majesty.
More than that, why not sin? God has a plan, therefore no human action matters, god can't lose anything.
>So the ultimate perfection is to stay true to the law and not sin? So what point is there in achieving anything at all? If the ultimate and highest peak of human perfection is to not sin, why not just live in a cave where there is 0 chance of sin?
People do this you know. Ever heard of a monastery?
>tfw you know you aren't spiritually strong enough to take on monastic life
honestly, why even live?
>If we were created to entertain him then he probably loves the fuck out of us.
Is that why he also created satan, demons and hell?
>why not sin?
Because it always ends poorly.
Go ahead and catch 11 stds or blow out your dopamine receptors. Let me know how it works out for you. Sabbatean Judaism is a joke.
I have all the answers you need. Don't assume just because I won't "help" you, I don't know anything. I won't "help" you because you are an atheist advocate who does not seriously want to understand anything. You merely want to spout your own viewpoint...period. You've already demonstrated this in the thread with your total lack of knowledge of scripture and Christian theology. If you really wanted to learn, you would not be hostile to those attempting to engage you is discussion. I've seen your ilk over and over again. It's easy to spot.
Free will means that he literally isn't controlling them. He knows the outcome but he's not moving and controlling you. He's just already watched that game... If his favorite player gets injured or freely decides to just sit on his ass... He may strike a spark of faith into someone in the audience to join in. You see, you joined the losing side of a game that's already over... That no matter what you do you can't win.
this doesn't answer any of the 3 agendas that you laid out. This is about inheriting an existing (spiritual) kingdom, not about "spreading the (physical) kingdom to all of creation".
If god wanted man to physically work our way into godhood (note that constructing a tower to the heavens is a parallel to sending a spaceship), then why would the story of the tower of babel end with god PUNISHING the men for trying to build and become something great?
>It's not holy crap how did you get that out of the bible?
Are you denying that in creation everything was perfect?
And that the only "imperfection" there is is because of man's sin?
>You can't ever "not sin." Humans are sinful by nature... as the bible repeatedly says
How autistic are you? That's the only acceptable end goal, that's not a statement about likelihood of success. 2nd grade reading here
>No reason to religious, or practically. Biggest waste of government money ever
Good to know then
>You can preach the gospel longer.
And when all of this planet has heard the gospel? What then? Absolutely nothing, because the bible never says to do anything other than perennial farming which they thuought would continue forever
>Because the Bible specifically and repeatedly calls on you to live socially, be active in your local church
Again you completely misunderstand my point, what the fuck is going on?
The point of "cave" is that there is nothing there other than the people, no comforts, no electricity, no internet, no inventions that would be a risk and potentially cause sin
You, sir, have totally missed the point. Also, if you think the world is perfect, why bother?
How, seriously how do you think that the world is perfect?!?!
You are talking about Earth, right?
You are so hideously down the wrong path, no Sup Forums thread can straighten this out. If by some miracle you actually give a damn, get on YouTube and spend the time to watch Chuck Missler's Learn the Bible in 24 Hours.
I'll pray for you. You need all the help you can get!
>always ends badly
So god doesn't have a plan? Bad has no meaning when god ultimately wins anyway.
>
because right at this very moment, it is almost impossible to not sin, and with each day we strive further from god, that is a fact its an universal rule for humanity more or less.
>He knows the outcome
If god knows the outcome of everything there can be no such thing as "free will" because everything is already predetermined.