Why didn't Shisui just use Kotoamatsukami without Hiruzen's consent? Just gather the entire clan for a meeting and say "Don't be a bunch of cunts, we've got it pretty good here."
Or once Itachi got the eye, use it on Obito (who he knew wasn't Madara at the time anyway) and say "Don't be a cunt, don't attack the village, also, kill yourself."
Kishimoto entirely fucked up the entirety of the Uchiha massacre. Was it Itachi testing himself? Was it the ruling class of Konoha? Was it Danzo? Was it Obito? Was it Madara? Did Hiruzen know? Why didn't anyone tell Sasuke that it WASN'T his brother? Why did everyone seem ok with the last loyalist Uchiha being hellbent on vengeance against his brother when most of the upper echelons knew that Itachi didn't actually do anything wrong? Why didn't Sasuke immediately kick the shit out of Obito once he realised it was Obito who was behind the massacre? Why would Sasuke just believe a random dude with a Sharingan who kidnapped him and stashed him in an underground bunker somewhere? Why, when Itachi said "Dude, Konoha didn't make me do anything, it was literally ALL Obito. I don't want Konoha destroyed", did Sasuke say "Yeah ok so I'm gonna go destroy Konoha haha."
Chase Hernandez
>someone spent the time to make that Tobirama was right
Noah Wright
I've made several. Used to work at a newspaper.
Asher Sanders
I think the implied reason is that Danzo somehow got the drop on Shisui before he got the chance and shit was going down regardless.
Plus, as powerful as Kotoamatsukami is, it's still just a genjutsu. It can be broken if the connection is disrupted by pain.
Eli Morris
Danzo only got one eye. Itachi had the other one.
Kotoamatsukomi is the only unbreakable genjutsu, because a) it doesn't require eye contact, and the target doesn't even know they're UNDER a genjutsu. There's no outward effects. We saw it in the Kage Summit - Danzo just 'suggested' he be appointed Supreme Commander of the army, and Mifune just accepted it, without knowing he was affected at all, until Ao pointed it out.
James Diaz
Could he use it on the whole clan though? I don't think so.
Could've been useful to use on the coup leaders, though.
Hunter Lee
> Could he use it on the whole clan Yes. It doesn't require eye contact. As one of the clan's premiere ninja, and the son of the clan lord, it wouldn't be hard to request a mandatory clan meeting, and then use Kotoamatsukami on everyone at once, simply sweeping the crowd with his gaze while telling them that insurrection is not a good idea.
Alexander Smith
>and the target doesn't even know they're UNDER a genjutsu They don't have to. If they get stabbed in the arm, thereby disrupting chakra flow, they'll snap out of it and realize what they were thinking before was bullshit.
Also, doesn't it have a severe cooldown without senju cells? Best case, Shisui could use it on Fugaku, but the other Uchiha would just mutiny him.
Josiah Sanchez
Kotoamatsukami is not a regular genjutsu. Not only is it a '''Mangekyou genjutsu''', meaning it can only be broken by another Mangekyou, it affects the user entirely differently. Also, physical pain doesn't disrupt chakra flow, it simply jolts the user. However, the rules for Genjutsu mostly go out the window the second a Sharingan gets involved. As per fucking usual.
It has a ten year cooldown while in a crow. Shisui, as the original user, would be able to use it without much of a cooldown, if again. And again, he could use it on everyone since it doesn't require direct eye contact.
Jason Sullivan
>It doesn't require eye contact Doesn't mean it can work on many people at once. Remember when Danzo tried it on some guy at the Kage meeting and they noticed it? Of course that was just plot trying to fuck him but it most definitely doesn't work on groups. Also Danzo was thinking about using it on Sasuke or Tobi, not the two of them. He'd have won if Tobi and Karin weren't here.
Aiden Anderson
> Remember when Danzo tried it on some guy at the Kage meeting and they noticed it? He tried it on Mifune and it totally worked. It was only noticed because Ao, who had a Byakugan, saw Mifune's chakra get disrupted by Danzo's influence. Without a Bykaugan, nobody would've noticed.
There is no reason why it couldn't work on groups.
Tyler Wright
There's nothing saying he can use it on more than one person at a time, though. Otherwise Danzo would've just mind controlled the entire Five Kage group and Mifune to avoid any suspicion.
Isaiah Butler
Why wouldn't he use it on everyone in the room instead of Mifune then? And >Danzo was thinking about using it on Sasuke or Tobi, not the two of them
It's already pretty OP the way it is. Could defeat Madara.
Zachary Hall
Hard to mind control a guy who can see 100% of the chakra, and what it's doing.
Looks like Byakugan is the hard counter to all genjutsu.
Jordan Cox
Except auditory genjutsu, probably. It managed to snag Mangekyou Sharingan and Rinnegan users alike. Shame that wasn't explored more. Maybe it will be in Boruto.
David Morris
I dunno, because even if it's auditory, it still requires the forming, moulding, and usage of chakra. That means that the Byakugan should still be able to see it. Whether that means the target would be able to see that it's affecting their ears or not is another thing.
Jack Lopez
The Sharingan and Rinnegan can see chakra too, just not as well as the Byakugan. They'd probably be able to see the chakra in the sound waves but whether or not they could react faster than the speed of sound is another story.
Adrian White
>see it >can't counter it Not good. Sage Mode is the hard counter to Genjutsu. The frogs constantly pump you up with nature energy, essentially making you invulnerable to Genjutsu.
Landon Young
The Sharingan and Rinnegan can tell chakra apart by colour, and can tell what chakra came from each person. I don't think they can see invisible chakra just floating around.
If you know you're under a genjutsu, you can hurt yourself or use Genjutsu: Release to break yourself free. The issue is that with most genjutsu, once you realise you're in one, it's already too late and you've lost control of your body. With the Byakugan, you can see it before it takes effect, and it would allow you to place yourself outside of the technique's influence, allowing you to break it.
Daniel Gray
Nah, a Perfect Jinchuuriki is the hard counter. Bee tanked a Tsukuyomi no problem because of Gyuuki.
Leo Peterson
When does that happen?
Tyler Ramirez
That's pretty good too, but iirc the beast takes some time to disrupt it
Sasuke vs Bee or more accurately everyone around trying to revive Sasuke over and over so he can get rekt by Bee again
Thomas Cox
Sasuke cannot use Tsukuyomi.
Hunter Harris
>Why didn't Shisui just use Kotoamatsukami without Hiruzen's consent? Just gather the entire clan for a meeting and say "Don't be a bunch of cunts, we've got it pretty good here."
he was, until he died.
>Or once Itachi got the eye, use it on Obito (who he knew wasn't Madara at the time anyway) and say "Don't be a cunt, don't attack the village, also, kill yourself."
it was on cooldown.
Adam Brown
Edo Itachi and Nagato vs. Naruto and Bee
I guess it's not explicitly Tsukuyomi but Gyuuki takes care of it anyway.
Bentley Lee
> he was, until he died. He was waiting until Hiruzen gave him the OK.
> it was on cooldown. It wasn't. Shisui didn't use it before giving it to Itachi. It would've been good to go.
Christopher Robinson
Tailed Beasts can break their Jinchuuriki free of normal genjutsu and Genjutsu: Sharingan. They cannot break a user free of Tsukuyomi, a unique Mangekyou genjutsu.
Easton Lewis
>They cannot break a user free of Tsukuyomi, a unique Mangekyou genjutsu That's speculation
Dominic Evans
Why wouldn't Itachi just use Tsukuyomi on both of them then? Nothing is shown to be able to break Tsukuyomi, including the Sharingan which was stated to be able to break EVERY GENJUTSU.
Man I hate what happened to genjutsu after the Sharingan became a major thing.
Anthony Reyes
he was waiting to use it in both eyes
>cooldown
Ethan Thomas
Blame Kabuto, he was the one in control.
Aiden Wood
>Why wouldn't Itachi just use Tsukuyomi on both of them then? Because beasts can break it
Gavin Walker
> he was waiting to use it in both eyes What do you mean? He didn't have both Kotoamatsukami eyes
Kabuto made them attack, he didn't make them not use certain techniques. I mean I guess it was sort of dumb - he should've known about Naruto's Talk no Jutsu by then.
That's speculation :^)
Landon Lopez
>That's speculation :^) yeah but it makes sense the truth is we don't know shit about that and Kishimoto would just write whatever suits him at the moment
Zachary Wood
Better than whatever the fuck /r9k/ does.
Aiden Richardson
>He didn't have both Kotoamatsukami eyes
yes.
Jacob Baker
Danzo had one. Itachi had one.
Andrew Howard
Knowing Kishimoto's track record, it'd probably make more sense that Tsukuyomi is unbreakable by a Tailed Beast, because let's face it, he's almost always favoured the Uchiha and the Sharingan over the Jinchuuriki and the Tailed Beasts.
Austin White
Probably, but I don't want to jerk Uchihas more than I have to.
William Jones
he had(or wanted who knows) to wait until he had the jutsu in both of his eyes, when he finally did and was going to use it, danzo took one.
Asher Butler
Sorry user, but that's the way it's going. Boruto is gonna shoot his load all over how cool Sasuke is and his main love interest is half-Uchiha.
Jordan Campbell
He never had Kotoamatsukami in his eyes, he had it in the crow. Unless you're talking about Shisui, at which point he still would have both because we've never seen him actually use Kotoamatsukami before that point.
Connor Miller
What does /r9k/ do?
Anthony Parker
i'm talking about shisui.
Christian Collins
Yeah. So he never actually used the Kotoamatsukami in that eye. He was ambushed before he could use the technique.
Justin James
That scene is kind of hilarious if you imagine it.
>Alrighty, just gotta nail Fugaku with the ol' one-two and the village is sav- AW FUCK MY EYE
Jackson Jones
Dump them please.
Colton Peterson
wait what are we even talking about now.
shisui didn't wait for hiruzen, he also had to wait to use it both of his eyes. Once he was ready, danzo took one, and he used it to escape , because itachi noted it was on cooldown.
Carson Jackson
If you don't like OCShit, ignore the bottom half of this one.
Ian Richardson
* used the other one to escape *
Chase Price
Shisui and Itachi asked to go ahead with it, and Hiruzen told them to wait because he hoped diplomacy would win the day.
There's also no reason why he needed to wait for it in both his eyes as you said, as it's clearly shown one eye is enough to cast it.
> he used it to escape Who, Shisui? You're guessing he used it. Not to mention he could've just gone "Give me back my eye" to Danzo.
Leo Harris
nothing
David Ramirez
maybe it's more powerful w/ both eyes, maybe there's slight variations, who knows, but shisui ran away and didn't use the jutsu when he only had one eye, so he had to been have waiting for both eyes to use it, otherwise he would have used it with one eye.
>Who, Shisui? You're guessing he used it.
he had to have to use it in the scuffle to escape otherwise there is no other way the eye was on cooldown when itachi got it.
Carson Ward
> there is no other way the eye was on cooldown when itachi got it. Poor writing and a truly crippling amount of retcons?
Joseph Allen
that too, but too be fair i don't think he planned on itachi being a " good " guy, the whole massacre is a mess.
Nicholas Clark
Just sent this off for typeset. Title is "Naruto-kun, what's paizuri?"
Dominic Parker
...
Ayden Harris
Source for this?
Isaac Bennett
I remember those days. Holy fuck, could this have been farther from the truth.
Cameron Wright
This thread only convinces me that kishinoto's a hack and naruto is garbage. Genjutsu might as well not even existed. Why do people still care about it?
Joseph Sullivan
>Glasses make Sasuke look 50% gayer
Luis Gomez
Genjutsu ended up being the central threat of the plot.
Noah Wood
You mean shitty eye cancer. It was a large part of why naruto was so shit.
Jayden Wilson
Because of what could've been.
Daniel Davis
He looks like that hot English teacher everybody had, if I am going to be honest