So why do people not like Umineko? What problems does the VN have?

So why do people not like Umineko? What problems does the VN have?

Other urls found in this thread:

nicovideo.jp/watch/sm30784689
youtube.com/watch?v=1ksK1dudxDw
youtube.com/watch?v=1C-f44fGQGE
lambdadeltosblog7thuniverse.tumblr.com/#CG07TH
youtube.com/watch?v=QTAcJ0ZcUkI
youtube.com/watch?v=gXv-h5WIMms
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

It's not that people dislike it, it's that is long as fuck and nearly nobody reads VNs

Started as a murder mystery and turned into a triple meta circlejerk about a tranny with multiple personality disorder.

In terms of easiness to consume Movies > OVA series > mnaga > full length anime > long VN series > LNs.

beato a cute

>Don't believe the lies about your family
>Except the ones about incest those aren't lies they're true

This

What is wrong with that? You end up finding out what happens and how the tranny actually doesn't really mean much in the grand scheme of things.

hello goat

the solution to the murder mystery is balls to the walls retarded

For one, it was a awesome murder mystery but then became TOO meta.
The answer with Yasu is ridiculous even for fiction.
Ryukishi pretty much insulting his fans as goats.
LOVE goes over logic.

beato is one of the few traps that I like, maybe because she sees herself as a woman, you can't blame her for that because she was raised as a girl

beato is CUTE!

Part of the reason why people jumped onto the Rosa train was because of the entire Yasu bullshit.
Ryukishi expecting from us to ignore plot holes and deny other possibilities cause otherwise we are stupid goats.

What kind of plotholes?

Delicious.

>nobody ever noticed anything
>Nanjo and friends keep coming on an island filled with bombs after giving a crazy tranny the remote
>they help him killing
>rudolf and kyrie's plan was to murder 15 people and act as if nothing happened

That's bad writing, but not plotholes.
She's a trap, with baps like that? What fucking sorcery is this. They're even proclaiming themselves apart of her dress in Red, so they must be real

I am probably retarded but I will try to answer

>Yasu is a bad writer
>they didn't expect Yasu to lose it due to his stupid crush
>Yasu is a bad writer
>they could have made an excuse, like Eva did when she survived

>LOVE goes over logic.
What's the problem? Don't tell me you don't believe in magic either.

The first one is kind of a plot hole. You can only justify it by saying that they "knew" and were just pretending to be retarded to keep the peace.

What exactly are "their concepts" supposed to mean?

People can be unexpectedly unobservant to the point where you'd accuse them of wearing blinkers when they don't care or don't want to know

Umineko is still good but that's disappointing after 1-4

I'll counterpoint

>He probably means when Yasu was being both Shannon and Kanon for a couple of years
>They still should have disarmed it, also Yasu had a MASSIVE BREAKDOWN about how much he hated her body due to injuires that should have sent warning bells
>Okay this one is legit, but only if you assume gameboard isn't ALSO a reflection of a Kakera
>They actually planned to use the bomb so it fits, but the plan was flawed because Rudolf was already losing it and I think Kyrie would have shot him had he told her the Battler secret at that point

It makes sense for Natsuhi and Krauss to not notice a thing about Shannon and Kanon.
But Jessica not noticing anything is retarded. Shannon is her best friend and Kanon the one she loves. In years, she never saw them together once.

The entire chain matter in EP1 cause Ryukishi went out his way to show us Eva did set the chain in the manga and said to herself that everyone should go in their rooms and keep the door locked.
Even more so since she and Hideyoshi were fucking.

The fact that Hideyoshi was victim of the most obvious murder mystery trick in the world with his corpse being drenched in hot water which would only fool Nanjou and nobody else. Nanjou said they died an hour ago, the clock 7:30. Eva and Hideyoshi were alive at 7:00. There is no need to use this temperature trick if the doctor is on your side.

Juat a few examples.

Do we even know what really happened that day? As far as I know, all the gameboards we saw, they were just tales. It's not really satisfying to think about it that way, but they could all be complete bullshit, from the events that occurred to the personalities of the people involved.
Maybe I'm wrong.

Despite all its rambling about the heart, Chiru obfuscated and glossed over Sayo's heart way too much in favor of generic Beato shipping crap. It's disgusting how Ryukishi completely skipped Battler meeting Sayo in Rokkenjima-Prime, considering that's the real conclusion to the entire Rokkenjima story. It's a good thing the manga knew better and decided to reveal everything properly.

As far as i understand, every version of Rokkenjima we see except for the one during episode 7 tea time is complete fabrication and none of it is real, except everything that happens before the latest Ushiromiya family meeting.

The Rudolf plan was fucked from beginning, did they expect investors and coworkers to trust them after that when they come back with a bank account that's not theirs to suddenly pay their debts? Actually they'd just be searched by the police which would take the credit card.

Who around would notice Yasu? Genji was helping his servant bullshit out of guilt. Krauss and Natsuhi were too busy. Godha was busy cooking five star food everyday and being up his own ass. Jessica is the real questionable one but my theory is she knew and played along after falling in love with Kanon.
Everyone else was there for two days or less.
Let's assume for argument's sake that the costume is well done. Enough to fool the eye at a glance. And being a grade A actress Yasu can change his voice.
The disguise would be found out eventually but who is there to find it out? The servants are kept on rotation so who knows how many days/months pass between a Shannon schedule and a Kanon schedule.
It's all in how much you can believe that someone can disguise themselves to that extent. There's probably been some mystery precedent set with how to use disguises to obfuscate characters but I'm not aware of it.
>Nanjo and friends keep coming on an island filled with bombs
Who knows about the bombs?
Kinzo's most loyal. Genji (Yasu's biggest support), Nanjo who has shown time and again how loyal of a friend he is. Yasu is pretty demure when he is granted inheritance. Why would Nanjo freak out anymore than when crazy Kinzo had his finger on the button? I forget if Godha knew.
>they help him killing
Other than Genji I'm not sure who you mean. Genji's his own kind of crazy in a way though.
>murder 15 people and act as if nothing happened
Don't forget about the bombs now.
They're the ultimate evidence eraser.

Gohda doesn't know shit, he is the most in the dark servant.

I want to deito Lucifer.

Yeah but Jessica was in love with Kanon and best friends with Shannon.

>The entire chain matter in EP1 cause Ryukishi went out his way to show us Eva did set the chain in the manga and said to herself that everyone should go in their rooms and keep the door locked.
>Even more so since she and Hideyoshi were fucking.

Wait what happened I don't remember much of episode 1 except that the people who died at the start weren't actually dead.

They were dead, Eva and Hideyoshi lied about Shannon being dead though.

>It's all in how much you can believe that someone can disguise themselves to that extent
Dunno if it counts, but Chevalier D'eon

Nah as I see it each version of murders is a real version that takes place in an alternate reality.
Granted this is only true if you believe that witches of the higher meta world exit (which I dunno Higurashi convinced me they do).

Either way what you see in the gameboard per episode is just fabrication, the true events per gameboard are the explanations given in ep7.

>Battler 1-4 : nice guy, makes people around feel easy, fought for his dead mom and used the free time to lift. Hates murders, a family man that'll fight for his peers, for truth. Will reject bitches.
>Battler 5-8 : perpetuates bitches. Helps Natsuhi hiding a body, gives duct tape to pervert detective, fucks Beatrannyce 3 hours after everyone died and 30 meters away from their rotting corpses. Fights by creating stories where his family die by a witch so he can protect delusions. Not really /fit/, spent too much time writing murder fanfictions, can't one punch a lolicat.
What the fuck happened?

>The entire chain matter
How does that lead to Rosa?
Is that the chain problem where the chain was checked and cut by Kanon?
I think there was a chain problem like that and it made sense when you knew about Yasu.

If you really wanna stick it in crazy, or vis-versa, sometimes you gotta go the extra mile. Maybe Jessica was just really tolerant and made everyone check their pronouns

Again I'm appealing to my theory that Jessica knew and didn't care.
She's not exactly all there herself. Pretending to have asthma attacks to get people to stop fighting.
Locked up on an island with her mother, father (who was probably away on business mostly) and servants who didn't talk to her. Except one friend, Shannon. Then she develops a crush on one of the few boys she can talk to, Kanon. What do you think she'd do when she realizes the secret? Deny it.

>Pretending to have asthma attacks to get people to stop fighting.
That's actually a pretty good idea if well applied.

But she wouldn't keep the secret after the murders start.

>The entire chain matter in EP1
That part was always hilariously obvious. It's literally Kanon and Genji wandering off on their own, cutting open the chain to kill Eva and Hideyoshi, then going "uh guys there are corpses here!". I remember that being my very first thought when reading EP1, so I never got why people were trying to come up with elaborate tricks for it.

Yeah you're right, I don't know if it works when the "body" of one is found when the other is still walking around. As dumb as Jessica is she would say something.
That would need some pretty heavy denial.

>Kanon and Genji wandering off on their own, cutting open the chain to kill Eva and Hideyoshi
That's scary as fuck

Jessica is pretty fucked up so I wouldn't put it past her to deny it.

Jessica is okay. She's one of the like 6 decent characters on Rokkenjima.

There are 6? Only decent people on Rokkenjima I can think of is Maria and Hideyoshi.

nicovideo.jp/watch/sm30784689
1:09-1:35

Forgot Gohda.

I do like Umineko but I also hated it at some parts while playing it. I can't say it's a problem with the game, but more a problem with me, that the game ends up a little too much pro-magic for my tastes. I get the entire point of magic and love, and while the game did change the way I think about some things, it's hard to change a fundamental personality trait like how skeptical or spiritual you are. When I got to the magic/trick choice at the end, I realized that magic was the "correct" choice for the game, but I couldn't bring myself to choose it over trick (the first time at least, I did end up seeing both endings but again I kind of prefer the trick ending). I feel like the entire game is building up to convincing you to pick magic in this case, and I guess the game failed me, or maybe I failed the game.

Add Battler, George (yeah even if we assume he threw the letter that's one teenager dick move, otherwise he's an okay guy), Gohda, maybe Krauss or another adult depending on what's true or not.

Forgot Jessica.

Original sprites>updated

So to sum up the thread.

The ending and solution. It portrayed itself as something other than it ended up being, ultimately disappointing fans who were attracted to it because of those aspects.

It's still pretty good overall tho.

Good point

Yep, and no amount of Lambda being perfect saves it. Higurashi is way better.

I don't know about that, Lambda is really quite perfect

I understand that perfectly. When it came down to the ending I saw what Ryukishi was saying and even agreed with him. But a part of my heart wanted to keep searching for the "one truth".

The "truth ending" in Umineko isn't the one absolute truth. It's a possiblity that Ange (and the reader) choose to believe in. The point that was being led to, through all the use of viewpoints and talk of catboxes. And the example of the fire that causes rain. It all led to the central point: we can't see the absolute truth. Anything could have happened on that island, it could have been literally anything. But we're not witches with red words so we don't know absolutely. So the decision Ange faces at the end is choosing the truth that suits her the best. To believe that her brother is alive, and everyone died happily. Or to believe that everyone died horribly. Both of these options, cynicism and optimism will give her reasons to live on. In the end one thing about her optimism happened to be right, her brother was alive. And one thing about her cynicism was right, Amakusa set her up to die. In both endings you see delusions at the end of your own creation. Battler rejoins everyone in happiness. And Ange sees the ghost of Erika. (You didn't actually think ghost Erika exists do you? You don't believe in magic do you? Haha)

So in the end both endings are fabrications that may or may not contain some truths and some illusions. What's important is that you (Ange) chose the ending that satiated your thirst for closure. They're both magic endings in that way. Might as well be called the optimism ending and the cynicism ending.

The ONE ABSOLUTE TRUTH is something only God and witches know. Featherine offered Ange this truth at one point but she actually couldn't take it and denied the red words offered to her by God.

I think Umineko's best scenes are some of the best shit I've ever read/experienced (that soundtrack helps), while I think it's worst scenes and some of those last for nearly half an episode are boring as fuck, so it's kinda of a love/hate relationship.
I think Higurashi is much more balanced overall but the shounen/hype scenes in Umineko blow any Higurashi scene except a few out of the park.

Umineko is in my top 3 video games and my favorite VN

I do like the message that no matter what truth you find, it literally changes nothing. The culprit(s) are dead and learning who did it doesn't change a thing for anyone.

>it's kinda of a love/hate relationship.
Same for me. But why would you put Umineko shonen hype scenes above Higurashi when it's the mystery and reasoning scenes that are impressive?

Erika is easily my all time favorite girl of any media. I'm not attracted to her, though.

>I'm not attracted to her, though.
That's alright, user. I'll fap to her in your stead.

Yeah but Ange was totally lost and focused on this at this point of her life. Might as well investigate and then make her choice/let go. That seems better on the long run than avoiding that at all costs.

Trick ending is good. Should've been canon. Ange saved her ass instead of just finding oniichan.

My Seacatfu is like my third or fourth favorite girl in all of media and I am not attracted to her either.

By shounen hype I mean scenes like Battler declaring war to Beato's existence in ep1, Battler vs Beato showdown in ep4, Battler's "listen up I'm gonna become Grandfather" in ep5, Battler, Ronove, Virgilia, The Stakes vs Erika at the end of ep5 (yeah I like episode 5 a lot). Those are both shounen hype and "reasoning" scenes, don't think I got my point across very well.

Also I want to say that just because someone chooses to believe an optimistic truth, doesn't mean they shouldn't keep searching for a one absolute truth.
It's impossible to know something for 100% certainty (with some by definition exceptions). But we should still keep an open, somewhat skeptical mind and search for a higher meaning.
If you're anything like me you didn't like the concept of a magic ending at first because it felt like giving up and living in blissful ignorance.
But it's okay to be optimistic! You can continue your search for further truth while being optimistic.

It's also okay to hurt yourself with painful truths. Because happiness isn't everything in life. Meaning is also important. And painful truths can also help you grow into a stronger person who can shoulder other unhappiness.

It only became a problem when Ange was set on suicide once she found out the one truth with no way of changing her mind.

Posting best Seacat.

I also think some of the scenes were spectacular but for me nothing in Umineko comes close to Onikakushi, Tatarigoroshi, or Tsumihoroboshi as a whole, with the exception of Turn's ending which blew my socks off. I think my main disappointment was that all that hype about defeating Beato and her seemingly endless army of furniture was just setting up the meta fuckery of Chiru. Maybe I'm just shallow. The ending was at least better than Higurashi's (mountain battle was stupid as fuck but I can see how he wrote himself into a corner), both trick and magic, but the scene with Battler diving into the water to save Beatrice is amazing. I will say the music far surpasses Higurashi's and highlighted many of the best moments.

youtube.com/watch?v=1ksK1dudxDw

I hope the new WTC is great. Shame Alchemist isn't around though, I love their sprites. On a side note does anyone know where I can get the Chiru CGs? I can't seem to find them anywhere.

>better in the long run
In what way is it better for Ange to continue digging around the dirt on the island for nothing. And shooting people she finds suspicious because the ghost of a crazy pervert told her to.
It's good but in an ironic and kind of intriguing sense. No good for Ange. Saving her brother is what she wanted to do in the first place and it's pathetic if she just gives up on him.
>at this point of her life
She hasn't even graduated highschool

>mountain battle was stupid as fuck
That was okay. Mountain was huge and full of traps. Tasers were useless. They also had goddess to help. In the end they won because they just had to stall while the other guys were in a hurry.

>In what way is it better for Ange to continue digging around the dirt on the island for nothing.
Digging around was good. She'd find hints and make her decision after a few days/weeks (an answer or just giving up -maybe temporarily).

>And shooting people she finds suspicious because the ghost of a crazy pervert told her to.
100% justified by the circumstances. That was pretty much self-defense.

...

Dreamenddiscarger is my favourite piece of music of all-time.
youtube.com/watch?v=1C-f44fGQGE

Just the CG pictures? DL here lambdadeltosblog7thuniverse.tumblr.com/#CG07TH
>wrote himself into a corner
Philosophically I think so yeah. NO CHARACTER DEATHS is a restriction that made Matsuribayashi way wackier than it could have been. If the adults had been able to kill them the whole script would be different.
I actually absolutely love the mountain scene. I had already liked Satoko before but it elevates her into some kind of god of traps status. It's believable that she would set up countless pitfalls and tripwires all through the mountain over years of honing her skill. It looks absolutely stupid but they were like a basic urban intelligence squad rushing into the VietCong jungle. What I take issue with is the one scene where either Akasaka or Kasai uses a sniper rifle to disarm people from quite a distance away. Very unbelievable.
Otherwise it's nice to think of Matsuribayashi in terms of probability like Bernkastel. It's a 000.1% chance that all this could happen, but Rika set all the conditions ahead of time, gathering some crazy talented people. So this world is that low chance of them actually pulling it off.

But that would be dodging the point R07 is trying to make. Both choices are states of mind for Ange. When faced with different truths, he's telling us to choose what makes us happy. Ange would never be happy with the truth ending. Because she'd be mired in doubt, always doubting everyone and seeing the worst in people.

best husbando

>Because she'd be mired in doubt, always doubting everyone and seeing the worst in people.
Investigating a bit isn't necessarily becoming cynical and crazy with doubt. Trying to understand things better means that you can trust them for real rather than them being a black box

Good taste.

youtube.com/watch?v=QTAcJ0ZcUkI

Okay I understand what you mean. I don't think you're going to find anything on that blasted out island. I doubt even exploring Kuwadorian would lead to anything.

But you want her to make sure anyways. The endings imply that it really is just a catbox and skips any extra checking process. Asking what does Ange believe in? The guilt of Eva or the life of Battler? It jumps right to what you believe is in the catbox.
Truth Ange is not going to investigate any further into the Rokenjima incident and even if she does, she wont' find anything. Before she even leaves the island she's already made up her mind about what the truth is.

The choice is unfortunately not at all about looking for more evidence because it presents a situation where there is none. It's just asking what Ange believes.

The manga explained that ep7 was what really happened. Rudolf and Kyrie meant to kill everyone for the gold, Eva managed to survive and bombed the place and couldnt tell Ange.

I can't fap to chestlets.

>tranny
>multiple personality disorder
Oh my god you didn't get literally anything. Get the fuck out of umineko threads retard.

Heroine used to have a dick. That's gay, man.

She literally comes up with Kanon to see what living like a man is like, and she's a biological male raised as a woman. That's a tranny in any sense of the word. As for the "sh-she was just playacting!" excuse, she really should have been able to drop the act when things were getting out of hand if that were the case.

Most people do like it, what made you think otherwise?

Everyone is a asshole

Being a tranny implies non natural physiological modificationm be it surgery or hormonal treatment.

Yasu is just a crossdresser, or trap.

can you imagine being such a retard that you don't realize beato is the best character in umineko? must feel like shit

I never understood why so many people spout this nonsense, I guess it's because people who read manga or watch anime are used to poor written characters of black and white morality and the characters in Umineko actually behave as human beings with different shades of gray.

As someone who only finished Umineko a week or so ago with Higurashi being my favourite anime I can safely say it's probably my favourite series across mediums. I just wish he could write endings to match them. They're not bad endings, they're still fun, but fun shounen conclusions don't really fit with the rest of the story. Of course having the best soundtrack in existence along with Keiichi Okabe certainly rectifies that, shoutout to LastEndConductor: youtube.com/watch?v=gXv-h5WIMms
Still no new info on WC3 though, and considering the arc format Ryukishi uses, we probably won't see the full story for several years.

From fun magic vs truth mystery themed story it quickly turned to some self insert bullshit about the author's feelings.

Self insert bullshit about the author's feelings? Who is the self insert, then? If you think it's Beatrice then you're retarded.

>it's the BT meme all over again
Please go to the golden land already.

Tranny can mean transvestite too.

>actually getting angry about disgusting trannies
>taking this shit so seriously
Hahahahahahaha.

any other good detective visual novels?