Okay so goku is either a bad person or a good person, which is it, I keep hearing and seeing people going off on goku for being a generally bad person or a horrible friend/father
Can we get some concrete evidence either way on if he is a great guy or a baddie?
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Piccolo was a better father than goku will ever be.
He's a good person. Fanbase are just manchildren overanalyzing a series for children.
So who is the godfather of gohans child huh?
Since when do parents make grandparents the kids godparents you jackass? Godparents are where kids go if there's no family that can take care of them. Stop repeating this retarded meme.
He's both. His "purity of heart" often gets used to explain his myopic points of view, but this also makes it difficult for him to understand the feelings of others unless they're already on he same wavelength. He is, essentially, a kid even as an adult; extremely driven by his ego without meaning to do any harm to anybody else. Selfish without meaning to be.
ill give him a pass his wife is a bitch and lazily written because
>I HAVE TO PUNISH MYSELF AND DRAW CHICHI MORE SUGOI
He's good, just a bit retarded
He was great
Just not cut out for being a dad
Hes more like an innocent animal just acting on instinct. You may as well try applying human morality to a dog or a fish.
Except he wasn't an animal, and if Vegeta is any indication, not all of that bullshit is instinctive.
That moment during the Cell saga when he tells Goku that Gohan isn't a fighter basically sums it all up.
underrated post
Goku is kind hearted, but at the same a rather quite selfish person in certain circumstances, who is true to his desires.
He has a sense of justice, but it just is not his primary driving force.
His sense of obligation is also weaker than his impulse control.
Does this make him a bad person?
Well, I would say no, it doesn't.
It's ultimately not his fault that others have grown reliant on him solving all their problems.
If Goku's way of doing things worries you, then all you need to do is to become strong enough that you don't need to rely on him.
This isn't even as far fetched as you'd think.
If Tenshinhan knew Kaioken when he bombarded Cell's second form with paradox beam, he might have actually managed to kill him off before he achieved his perfect form.
Even better, had he actually been taught Spirit Bomb as well, he could have used that to further bolster his paradox beam.
If Krillin knew instant transmission, he'd pretty much wreck every single creature incapable of regeneration with his signature move.
>Can we get some concrete evidence either way on if he is a great guy or a baddie?
He is literally brain-damaged. He has really questionable views on morality and prioritises fighting over anything else. He only saves the world on occasion because he wanted to fight strong opponents, not because he ever cared about saving the world.
He was pretty moralfaggy in the last episode. Almost as if Toei realized that he was quickly becoming unlikable.
>His sense of obligation is also weaker than his impulse control.
Not really, he did prioritize Earth safety most of the time
Good person but bad father.
Doesn't he have brain damage?
But then Gohan goes stronger than everyone and beats Cell anyway so...
Isn't that fix'd by senzu beans?
retconned
he seems to be a decent person, but not a good dad, that piccolo's job.
/thread
>that piccolo's job
So throwing kid into the wild and never interacting with them is better fathering than one on one training together in the hyperbolic time chamber?
he kinda interacted with him alot, whether he was saving his ass, or beating his ass, he genuinely care for gohan and gohan picked up on that, hell piccalo killed himself to save gohan too. then in a all the movies, gohan is always saved by piccalo, not goku.
So he's a terrible father, husband, friend, lover, hero, etc.
He's a good person, always doing selfless things and kind to his friends.
He's just a shitty father. Not abusive, but more like negligent and absent, sometimes with a reason.
>Ok Raditz, I'll let go of your tail. I believe you.
>Spare Vegeta Krillin, I wanna fight him again.
>Here Frieza, have some energy.
>Here Cell, have a Senzu bean.
He does have a track record of trying to keep his enemies alive so he can fight them again even if it endangers the world.
Of course, if the world didn't have to rely on him in the first place, stuff like that wouldn't happen.
>then in a all the movies, gohan is always saved by piccalo, not goku
>Ok Raditz, I'll let go of your tail. I believe you.
muh brother is a good enough excuse and he took responsibility
>Spare Vegeta Krillin, I wanna fight him again.
true
>Here Frieza, have some energy.
That's sparing and would have been wrong in a more serious story since Freeza was literally Hitler but it's a shonen aimed at kids so that was just Goku being super nice, not for the fight but because muh life
>Here Cell, have a Senzu bean.
He might have done it to make sure Cell would try to make Gohan angry without going "welp i'm getting tired so I'll kill you all now"
If he did it for the honor of the fight then yeah it's fucked up
okay 4/5 piccalo saves gohan
>>Here Cell, have a Senzu bean.
that might be the most fucked up part. "hey cell, let me heal/power you up so you have a better chance of killing my son... "
To be fair Cell would kill everyone no matter what unless Gohan turned SS2. They didn't have a chance in the first place.
Also this and all of the early DBZ movies where Goku's presence was predicated on the villain kidnapping Gohan and him needing to save him.
It's amazing how so many people don't understand why Goku gave Cell a senzu. He gave it to him because Goku thought Gohan was a muh saiyan pride battle junkie like him, he gave Cell the senzu because he thought Gohan would want a 100% fight with Cell so he could enjoy himself like he did. There's a fucking reason why Goku is so shocked when Piccolo calls him out on Gohan not being a fighter and instead being someone who has always fought only because the circumstances forced him to.
Fucking hell. All the people who call Goku a retard are 100 times more stupid than him.
yeah, but could they have worn him down over time? yes gohan si the climax of the series, but he didn't NEED to waste a much needed senzu bean on cell.
nip gokoa is a terrible person.
American Goku is a good person.
>There's a fucking reason why Goku is so shocked when Piccolo calls him out on Gohan not being a fighter and instead being someone who has always fought only because the circumstances forced him to.
this also adds to the Piccalo0-dad argument that goku is yet to understand this about his own son, something picallo already knows, understands and respects.
of course goku may have a son more like him if he had done more of the parenting. Namekians aren't aggressive by nature, just tough, maybe gohan learned more how to be a namekian than a sayain training with piccolo.
>could they have worn him down over time?
Probably not, I think he'd eventually power up and destroy the Earth once things start spiraling outside of his control. Also it didn't wear him down too much to create 7 Cell Jrs.
>but he didn't NEED to waste a much needed senzu bean on cell
yeah
They really fucked up the senzu management when you think about it. Instead of giving them to everyone because they felt a bit tired they should have kept some for Gohan just in case. Also don't give them to fucking Krillin.
You don't need to try and justify his actions. While they ultimately were selfish, it's not as if anyone else in the universe is willing to take Goku's place so they're just as much responsible for the consequences of his actions.
If there's only one guy who's willing to dedicate himself to training so everyone else can laze around and have normal lives, then the guys lazing around don't exactly have any moral grounds to complain either.
Strong guys always keep popping up one after another.
It may be years apart, but it still keeps happening.
They should understand that their planet might be wiped out the moment Goku gets another heart disease and the next decently powered alien shows up.
>gohan is a cuck and therefore was rejected by his father
>picucklo reinforced gohan's cuck tendencies
>piccolo is a better father than goku
wew lad
Goku spent the first 4 years of Gohan's life with him holed up in the mountains to the point no one even knew Goku has had a child. Then Saiyans happened, then Namek happened, and when Goku came back to Earth he spent 3 years training alongside Gohan and Piccolo. And then Cell happened and Goku spent 1 year with Gohan inside the Time Chamber.
To say that Goku has not done parenting is stupid. He very clearly has done so, but you cannot tell me with a straight face that you think Goku is a more perceptive person than Piccolo regarding reading people's personalities and the such.
so what started the obsession with the word "cuck" lately? conservatives use it non-stop and it doesn't roll off the tongue either. why do people like it?
Sup Forums and Sup Forums memes.
I don't know... if I had to pick Dad's I would still pick piccolo. everyone wants goku out of obligation, but piccolo feels more genuine to me.
It's not like his friends can do anything about it. Humans are shit and Piccolo is barely better. Vegeta is ... Vegeta.
Well I started to use it to conflate statists and cucks about 2-3 years back, and I explained my behavior with the analogy that your rights are your wife, and only you should fuck your wife.
Then actual cucks/leftists got upset because they actually are cucks, so people started to double down and refer to any beta/leftist thing as something a cuck does.
What these fags are saying. also just gonna leave this here. strawpoll.com
Everyone's a shit because they train inefficiently. Goku is a genius for that shit, Goku is always learning new techniques, Goku is always grinding 24/6 instead of 24/7 because he knows he needs a day of rest to let the gains set in, Goku masters what he knows to make it more efficient, Goku goes and asks the top dog to train him so he can even better with no shame at all.
Krillin? Policeman all day.
Piccolo? Let's meditate in front of a waterfall.
Tien? Let's train these ningens with less than 5pl
Vegeta? Let's grind on the time chamber AGAIN, surely that will work, it's not like it didn't work back during the Cell saga where I grinder for 2 years and Goku for not even one and Goku was still stronger than me
Gohan? Gotta nerd it up.
People complain about things always being about Goku and how everyone else is useless but how can they complain when Goku is the only one who truly puts in effort into getting stronger? C'mon son.
Well, you know, if the other humans knew Roshi's transformation, that'd probably help even out the score.
Steal some of Gero's tech to beef out humans further if their standard specs still aren't enough.
If King Kai would just bother teaching Kaioken to someone OTHER than Goku, that would be a great help as well.
but you need to have a wife for that word to have any meaning, so what the fuck?
By that logic you need to have your house burning down to be called a faggot for not having a fire extinguisher.
>Insults have to be literal to work
Are you retarded son?
The word cuck is offensive because it implies that even if you don't have a wife you'd still let her get fucked by the BBC while you fap in the corner if you hypothetically had one. Any self-respecting man would get offended at such a thing being implied about him.
That's how insults work, idiot, by implying something about you that is offensive.
He's a generally good ─ if selfish ─ person. He isn't exactly a hero, as saving the world typically comes second to the thrill of a challenge and the anticipation of a great fight. You can see that he's a good, quirky person when he isn't fighting, and he generally fights for good even if his self-satisfaction or beliefs come before the most "optimal" solution. He's "pure," when it comes to his pursuits in life.
About him being a father, he generally does pretty okay, though it tends to be that fighting seemingly comes before everything else. His children get along with him very well, and he only has friction with his wife mostly for comedic purposes.
well, you you don't have a house, and your house is not on fire, whats the point of having or not having the fire extinguisher, that's my point.
Because it describes anyone aptly who is supporting the mass importing of rapists to come and fix the low birth rates of their own nation.
>The word cuck is offensive because it implies that even if you don't have a wife you'd still let her get fucked by the BBC while you fap in the corner if you hypothetically had one. Any self-respecting man would get offended at such a thing being implied about him.
but isn't that just one big over extended straw man?
if you are apathetic to the insult, doesn't that just render the insult pointless?
that's kinda like trying to counter being called a faggot by saying you're a virgin.
actually, I think there are benefits to lower birthrates...
Do you have autism? Literal autism? I cannot believe there is someone in this world who doesn't understand the mechanics behind insults.
and what if you don't give a shit about either title. what currency does the insult have after that?
well, for insults like this to work, you need to be insecure, but say you ARE secure, or jsut apathetic to the subject matter of the insult. doesn't that take all the bite out of it?
>if you are apathetic to the insult, doesn't that just render the insult pointless?
No. Because it influences people other than the recipient.
Also being a shameless cuck is worse than being a shameful cuck.
(low national) Birthrates are a non-issue spouted by statists/sophists.
(read: no people have ever died off due to a lack of sex)
He's either extremely naive or extremely selfish, but not outright evil.
>Do you have autism? Literal autism? I cannot believe there is someone in this world who doesn't understand the mechanics behind insults.
That may be how its INTENDED to work, but that doesn't mean it WILL work
>Also being a shameless cuck is worse than being a shameful cuck.
how so, all shame is self imposed and only has currency with the collect if the shame infact effects said individual. people who double down agaisnt shame are seldom scene as weak ironically.
it also means the power of shame and insult requires preexisting social metrics to be strong, in other words, its an illusion you allow to happen.
I'm a literal autist and even I'm trying to explain it to him. user is either a troll, retard, or cuck.
Not if you really are a cuck, which if you refuse to defend yourself, you've given little reason to believe otherwise.
I can't explain it without using morals, and you reject morals.
It's one of the parts of humanity/society that is illogical and non-objective with deliberate intent because it produces beneficial results.
>I'm a literal autist and even I'm trying to explain it to him.
and you are doing a real shit job.
you're basically saying I need to be complaint with those trying to label and hurt me in order to let their insult work. why should I bend over for them? Where is the obligation?
In original DBZ Goku actually tried to be fatherly. Obviously, he was still fighing-autismo and made some terrible decisions but he clearly cared, had conscience and tried his best.
In Super he's a caricature of himself and an unforgivable as a person, thinking about fighting exclusively, not giving a slightest of fucks about his family or whatnot, and having zero sense of responsibility of a toddler.
>Not if you really are a cuck,
again, a term kinda ill-defined. its kinda like some one calling you a 'baka' and you thinking. "man, that word jsut sounds dumb, why am I SUPPOSED to be insulted by it again?"
>manchildren overanalizing a series for children
but it's ok when Evangelion fags, Madoka fags, Le Titan fags, K-On fags or Fate fags do it? am I right phamalan?
because the alternative is doubling down and actually being a cuck.
calling someone a faggot (typically) isn't meant to bring attention to literal faggotry, but rather to behavior/philosophy that is reasonably similar to faggotry in an attempt to get the person realize that they are behaving like a faggot.
>I can't explain it without using morals, and you reject morals.
so, basically there is no currency without social metrics, which are socially constructed, therefore not real unless you make them real.
sorry, but enslaving yourself to something imaginary is dumb.
"It's one of the parts of humanity/society that is illogical and non-objective with deliberate intent because it produces beneficial results."
but what if the recipient of the insult does not deliver those desired results?
...
The fact that you'll get ostracised by other people for being a proud cuck is no illusion and it will have a negative effect on your life in comparison to a person with healthy social networks.
Shame, much like pain, is a warning system that's supposed to tell you when you've done goofed socially speaking.
>calling someone a faggot (typically) isn't meant to bring attention to literal faggotry, but rather to behavior/philosophy that is reasonably similar to faggotry in an attempt to get the person realize that they are behaving like a faggot.
okay, the broad use in and tiers of faggory and its usage make this WAYYY too complex...
>but what if the recipient of the insult does not deliver those desired results?
Then they are a immoral degenerate who either receives social ostracism, or moves to california/new york.
t. califag
It's not really an ill defined word.
It just means the sort of dude who'd raise another man's child whether knowingly or unknowingly and is ok with it.
>The fact that you'll get ostracised by other people for being a proud cuck is no illusion
well it IS an illusion actually, and illusion you can coax other into believing thus making it seems real. Its basically religion, and we know that is not real, but people can be duped into thinking it is, thus insults like "cuck" or "faggot" require gullible people to give it currency, but all that fails if the precipitant doesn't cave to the illusion.
>Shame, much like pain, is a warning system that's supposed to tell you when you've done goofed socially speaking.
and if the social metric itself is illogical and not based in reality? wouldn't that merely make the outsider the last sane man?
I just get the feeling you guys have given this word currency out of fear... its a fucking word bro...
>and if the social metric itself is illogical and not based in reality?
see: >It's one of the parts of humanity/society that is illogical and non-objective with deliberate intent because it produces beneficial results.
but morality is subjective, the label continues to hold no currency.
>It just means the sort of dude who'd raise another man's child whether knowingly or unknowingly and is ok with it.
so this includes grandparents, uncles, teachers and foster parents?
>morality is subjective
t. cuck
the morality of theft isn't the same as the morality of a trolley.
Just because some morality is subjective doesn't mean that all morality is non-objective.
He's neither, just a chill guy.
easy version, you have to believe in the matrix to make it real
Blood of my blood =/= blood of non-family member
I with Socrates here, Cucks are those who let other people rule them
He's a good person
What makes you think that they're illogical and not based in reality?
If I can provide a reasonable case as to why people should think you a cuck, am I tricking them or casting an illusion on them?
What if I actually believed that you'd be ok with raising another man's son and paying for it?
Because all characters have responsabilities that they take and honor
Krillin? Has a kid and a wife, wife only makes money when there is a martial arts tourney with a big pot, so he works 9 to 5 as a cop
Tien? found his calling as a dojo master and was happy for once in his miserable life
Vegeta? Has two kids who he actually likes and cares for in his own tsun tsun way, so that takes priority over training
Gohan? has a day job, is trying to be a scholar and earn money with his brain, not his muscles to provide for his wife and daughter (even though he married a rich girl)
Piccolo is the only one with free time to train, but he knows he cannot catch up to how retarded strong sayans get and prefers to be the grandad goku never was
Even Yamcha got a job and became a baseball player
Yes, goku has a wife and two kids, but he doesnt give a shit about providing for them, he only farms because chichi yells him to, and if he can train instead of that, fuck work lets train, his wife only has money because her father still have some and Satan payrolls her household
>Then they are a immoral degenerate who either receives social ostracism, or moves to california/new york.
>t. califag
So morality IS subject to region, therefore an illusion. truth wouldn't have boundaries...
Nope, people in cali are just immoral degenerates. It doesn't change morality, they obey it.
>If I can provide a reasonable case as to why people should think you a cuck, am I tricking them or casting an illusion on them?
becasue you have no solid evidence on the person you are accusing, therefore you are basing it on assumption, or projection, therefore and illusion that become delusion once you succeed in convincing others.
nothing in that equation is routed in reality
His Japanese nickname is クズロット .
クズ (scum) + Kakarot.
He's a scumbag worst father ever.
*just don't obey it
but only according to those outside of california, again, illusion has boundaries, truth doesn't
>ッ
Seems like a good guy to me.