So she's just being a big bitch?

So she's just being a big bitch?

No, he's saying that the mud has corrupted her personality, but that she's still herself on the inside and not a monster beyond saving like she's pretending that she is.

I thought that he was also saying that she can't hide behind the lie that she has a split personality and pretend that she is beyond blame for the actions she took

He's right that she's still Sakura, but he's being disingenuous by downplaying the effect the grail mud is having on her mind.

The shadow that went around at night was the grail acting on its own without Sakura having any control over what it did, but after the death of Shinji, Sakura decided to integrate the shadow into her body to stop it from acting on its own any more. This, however, also had the effect of the grail mud starting to directly corrupt her already unstable mind. If you've read/watched Higurashi or Tsukihime, you could say Dark Sakura's state is like the Hinamizawa syndrome or Inversion Impulse.

He's saying it's Sakura that's gotten drunk on angry manjew instead of some foreign personality that's taken over her.

Shirou's CANON wife

Yes Sakura is canonically a giant piece of dog turd

Well all girls are bitch anyways.

By the way, Kirei noticed that she's still Sakura because she is still using Tohsaka's ribbon. The sprite of dark sakura was hiding it up until that scene. After Kirei told her, Sakura suddenly looked forward showing the ribbon.

wormbitch

Since when is the Dark Shadow a separate entity from Sakura? She controls it the entire route, not just later. She murdered those people.

Read the VN before shitposting. The shadow controls Sakura, not the other way around.

>speculation by two of the most untrustworthy characters ever
Nah, I'll stick with Sakura and the narrator's version instead of their second hand opìnion.

...

That's not Sakura

>Nothing is my fault.
>Everything could be avoided if she killed herself.
>Even before Heaven's Feel if she kills herself everything can be avoided.
>Its not my fault.
Everything is everyones fault and we all have to man up to it.

Confirmed for not having read the VN.

I have read every single page of Heaven's Fall, ask me anything.

>I have read every single page of Heaven's Fall, ask me anything.
>Heaven's Fall

What's the actual name of the arc?

>if
Everything could be avoided if Zouken didn't put those grail shards in Sakura. Place the blame where it's actually due, since he was the one who understood and caused the situation.

Depends, are you talking about the Heaven's Feel Good or Heaven's Feel Normal route or the Superhero route? or maybe that alternate ending where Shirou kills Dark Saber but dies?

>the narrator
>trustworthy
Nasu is nearly as bad as Ryukishi when it comes to unreliable narration.

>Sakura is a complex character
>she's a total victim who's actually really strong, but who dindu nuffin though
What's left, a stale whiteknight waifubait character? No wonder she's less popular.

And everything can be avoided if Zouken's parents don't fuck, and so on. Blame can be passed back indefinitely with that faulty logic of yours.

That's just what she thinks narrated in third person, I don't see the problem. Characters can be wrong, you know?

She's clearly too complex for you, it seems.

I'm pretty sur ethere's a lengthy explanation of how being connected to avneger has corrupted her with all the evils of the world, which is why Shirou uses rule breaker.

The sole fact that she enjoyed the slaughter already puts her on Kirei's level of evil. Zouken has some terrifying competition right there.

See

>she killed
>not he
How can people say it was angry manjew if he is a male spirit?

Too convoluted is more like it. But that all just hides the fact she's a lackluster character at core and white knighting her is possibly what you enjoy more than anything.

Exactly, Sakura herself thought it was enjoyable. She's a monster.

Wanting to make such a broken person happy is nice, making each other happy despite how broken they are is at the core of her relationship with Shirou.

Fucking newfags.
Sakura being the Shadow was proven a million threads ago.

Only Ilya knows that the grail mud's identity is Angra Mainyu.
The shadow enjoyed it. She's having a mental breakdown falsely believing it was her all along. You know, basic stuff people get from reading the VN.

That's after she absorbed the shadow.
Notice how the first thing she tells them is to run away because she's going to take care of things and do whatever she must with it.

>The shadow enjoyed it
Read the fucking VN, the Shadow can't feel or think.

>went around town
>went
>past tense

>is Sakura
>is
>present tense
Gee, whatever could that shift in grammar mean?

the shadow is AM manifesting in the physical world through Sakura's imaginary number.
AM absolutely hates humanity and enjoys its suffering.

So you like her because of your broken bird fetish? Cool, stop trying to dress it then. Sakura is a whiteknight's fantasy, made all the more plain by all the whitewashing her fans do in her name.

Went around town is in past tense because it happened in the fucking past, are you a retard? the shadow was not killing townspeople at that very moment.
>the thing that killed
>IS Sakura
>not IS NOW
>not became
>not joined with
Not to mention your logic doesn't even work for the japanese language.

>No wonder she's less popular.
You say it as if Saber isn't the very definition of a stale waifubait character, who's a literal whiteknight to boot.

Angry Manjew was less than a fetus at the time. He can only manifest a will and feelings once he is born, therefore he can't enjoy or hate. He just "acts" based on pure instinct.

No, I simply enjoy her because I enjoy her seeing trying to be strong for the person she loves, until she breaks completely.
She's a tragic heroine with a happy ending and I find those enjoyable.

Is everybody in this thread ok?

Fucking SAVAGE considering it came from Shirou.

>Went around town is in past tense because it happened in the fucking past
Exactly. Before Sakura joined with it, which is something that is both mentioned beforehand as a possibility before it happens, and explicitly confirmed by Ilya in that very scene. There's also the fact that early shadow scenes have it manifesting while Sakura is confirmed to still be sleeping at the Emiya household. It fusing with her body is a gradual process that goes on over the course of the route.

>are you a retard?
He's not the one who thinks the shadow was literally just Sakura herself, so no.

>there are people in this thread who thinks Sakura did nothing wrong
I don't care if you want to fuck Sakura, but don't ever say that she did nothing wrong

All these wormfags denying that Sakura=Shadow even though it has been proven again and again.

For argument's sake, lets say that Sakura is being controlled/posessed/influenced by the shadow. For the vast majority of the route, this would be the Sakura that is seen. Everything up to the very end of the route woukd be Shadow Sakura. So the Sakura that you all love and defend so much, is Shadow Sakura. You love her when she is posessed by the shadow. You love the murderer. You love the traitor who turned against all her loved ones. Or are you going to try to claim that you like the Sakura that we see for maybe five minutes at the end of the route?

>Sakura can't be the shadow because she's sleeping at home
And where do you think her consciousness goes where she sleeps? fucking speedreader.

The Shadow specifically avoided killing Shirou when it had him at the park. Do you think a mindless being that exists just to kill all of humanity would ignore a human it just caught?

>For argument's sake, lets say that Sakura is being controlled/posessed/influenced by the shadow. For the vast majority of the route, this would be the Sakura that is seen. Everything up to the very end of the route woukd be Shadow Sakura.
>being this retarded
The shadow is the thing that looks like this. It appears when Sakura is asleep or otherwise unconscious.

And where do you think her consciousness goes where she sleeps? fucking speedreader.

The Shadow specifically avoided killing Shirou when it had him at the park. Do you think a mindless being that exists just to kill all of humanity would ignore a human it just caught?

LEWD AND EVIL

>fucking speedreader.
>this coming from the one who's dumb enough to believe Sakura is at fault for the shadow's actions
My sides.

>Do you think a mindless being that exists just to kill all of humanity would ignore a human it just caught?
Well, it clearly did, didn't it? Since that's what it was revealed to be in the end. Sucks to be you if you fell for some earlier red herrings and wrongly blamed an innocent victim, I guess.

I can't tell if this is a samefag, or if all wormfags think that you can make a rebuttal by adding nothing to the conversation at all. If you want to actually disprove the posts you replied to, you should probably do something beyond calling them stupid.

Used goods and worm slut, has there ever been a worse girl?

I hate Sakura so much. And now the HF movies are coming out so people will be posting the stupid whore even more than they already do.

Go ahead and think it through, I'll wait for an actual counter argument.

A contrived affection point bad end isn't an argument. The argument ended at , the rest is just you being in denial.

Because there's more to Saber than just being a waifu to be protected and saved. Saber is a literal knight who attracts waifufags, Sakura however is a pitiful waifu who attracts whiteknights.

>Because there's more to Saber than just being a waifu to be protected and saved.
Yeah, she's a waifu who protects, saves and eats, and that's about it. The waifufags attracted to being protected by a woman are pitiful by definition.

Saber is popular because of her overall character. Sakura however only has whiteknights, because her character is pisspoor and designed to appeal to their base desires.

Saberfags like Saber. Sakurafags like defending Sakura.

>Saber is popular because of her overall character.

Sakura is objectively one of the most nuanced characters in the entire VN.

Sakurafags like that. Rinfags like making up bullshit about Sakura.

It's your fault for replying to them.

Ilya > Taiga > Rin = Saber > Sakura

>affection point bad end
Read the fucking VN, the Shadow sparing Shirou does not come from a bad end, and those are canon anyways so you don't even have a point there.
And seriously, at least try to refute my argument instead of making excuses. You are making yourself look pretty fucking cornered with these piss poor derailing attempts.

>Wormslut praise
Check.
>Overly exaggerated claim
Check.
>objectively
Check.
>Rinfags are the devil
Check.
>Reddit spacing
Check.

Very nice one sir, it could use a line about Sakura's virginity and one or two doujin memes, but this is pretty much as good as it gets.

>trying to make sense of F/SN
Don't bother. The series is just full of cool ideas slapped together which resulted in endless inconsistencies.

Read the fucking VN, Sakura does not control the shadow. Your "argument" was already refuted all the way back here: The nature of the shadow is explicitly confirmed to be that of the grail. You're the one making pisspoor excuses in your desperation to blame Sakura for things that she's not to blame for. The shadow did spare Shirou, and yet Sakura explicitly isn't in control of it. Get over it.

>"Wormslut"
Check.

Kotomine is the best character surrounded by idiots.

Your Google skills are really impressive, user.

And that's why you blame the direct source: The greater grail.

Only sakuratard apologists deny she was the murdering whore all this time.

The movie will make it quite clearer though, to the eternal buttdevastation of sakurafags.

His google-fu is strong, but his weakness was already revealed in his earlier use of the Nonsensical Shitposting Technique

Bitch did it. Spent all those days murdering random townspeople at night.

Kotomine himself explains that what's killing people is the grail and not Sakura herself. What he's talking about there is her conscience based on how she sees things.

...

She knows she did it, Shirou knows it, Gilgamesh knows it, Kotomine knows it, NASU knows it, only sakurafag apologists deny.

>muh shadow

...

>The shadow did spare Shirou, and yet Sakura explicitly isn't in control of it
You simply can't have both, this is a massive contradiction.
You posted yourself several quotes that indisputably confirm AM is a force of pure evil that specializes in killing people.
If the Shadow didn't kill Shirou when he was at it's complete mercy, then it's literally impossible that AM was the one in control there.

Her sanity obstructs the shadow, yes. Thing is, when you're dreaming, your mind isn't in a sane state. That's why it appears when she's asleep. Also, pic related.

>saved Sakura
>helped rescue Ilya
>saved Shirou and attached Archer's arm to him
>nearly kills both Assassin and Zouken
>makes Shirou face the reality of his borrowed ideals
I know "x villain did nothing wrong" is a meme but Kirei really did nothing wrong

>You took lives, so take responsibility, Sakura

YAMEROOOOOOOOOOO

Shirou knows Rin isn't dead, meaning he's not literally blaming her for all of those. She's right about having killed Shinji and Zouken, at least. Remember, Sakura is noted to blame herself for things that aren't actually her fault.

>If the Shadow didn't kill Shirou when he was at it's complete mercy, then it's literally impossible that AM was the one in control there.
Or Sakura just happened to wake up for a moment.

>Sakura is noted to blame herself for things that aren't actually her fault
She's also noted to blame herself for things that ARE her fault, like killing people.
This whole issue is entirely subjective, but when even Shirou blames her, why would our opinion matter?

Sakura was seeing the dream and saw something she didn't want to happen so she made it stop. That's the obvious explanation. She was in control and let the shadow murder as many people as it wanted, but she didn't want Shirou to die. She's a murderer and an evil person.

ITT: Wormslut apologists implying that a psychopathic murderous nutcase did nothing wrong even in the face of being blatantly wrong.

>Or Sakura just happened to wake up for a moment
Can you prove that actually happened or is it just fanfiction?

>when even Shirou blames her
So are you saying he thinks Sakura has killed Rin there (protip: he's already noticed that Rin is still alive there)? Because either he's not denying any of her claims because he truly sees them all as true, or he's speaking in general terms to encourage her to live on without having to quibble about the details in a situation where they're short on time.

how is Shirou so great

>you took lives
New devastating screencaps are always welcome.
This one is as savage as it gets considering Shirou himself is scolding her.

Not the user you're responding to. It ties in with Shirou making the same decision for himself. He could have killed Sakura and stopped the murders, but he allowed them to happen and decided to take responsibility for it. So Sakura should take responsibility for murdering all of the people the Shadow killed. They're both responsible for letting tons of people die. They both knew about it and allowed it.

He's truly a righteous yet compassionate man. I kida admire him a little.

Considering later nightmare scenes mention how Sakura wants the nightmares to stop, but can't do anything about it, that's clearly wrong.

I knew to steer clear of Sakura even before I'd been spoiled to hell and back about the dickworms. Seriously, have you seen her hands in her irritated pose? Like claws, rigid, neurotic, overwrought claws, even when you've crossed her in a completely normal conversational way ("No, let me help with the dishes" *claw hands* "STAY RIGHT WHERE YOU ARE").

Fuckin' crazy and wound tight as a wire. Then I saw 'dem worms and suddenly it all made sense.

Know what's pure fanfiction? Sakura having killed anyone but Shinji, Kotomine, Zouken and True Assassin.