What the FUCK was her problem? Everything was settled perfectly in the anime...

What the FUCK was her problem? Everything was settled perfectly in the anime, and she had to go and literally ruin everything for everyone.

I wish I hadn't watched Rebellion.

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Rebellion is a self contained side story that takes place in it's own timeline.

That is the justification I gave myself. Really I loved the movie, but it takes all closure the show had and flushes it into the sewer

It was a good ending, Homura got her waifu.

homurafags either deny this movies existance or fully embrace that their waifu is literally satan.

>Everything was settled perfectly in the anime
>but it takes all closure the show had and flushes it into the sewer
Did we even watch the same series?
Madoka just saved girls from becoming witches.
The underlying problem of entropy was still there.
Arguably she made the problem worse because she eliminated the most effective form to combat it.
Madoka literally condems te whole universe to a slow and painful heat death because of muh suffering.
Thanks Homura for fixing thi shit mess Madoka made.

Madoka removed any actual downside to becoming a magical girl aside from the known dangers of fighting. She wasn't trying to remove entropy all together, just the suffering that came with being a magical girl

Good Movie Homura did everything right

>Everything was settled perfectly in the anime, and she had to go and literally ruin everything for everyone.
>Madoka lives with family
>Sayaka gets to be cucked again
>Mami has a loli
>Kyouko gets to be with the cuck
>Homu sleeps on a hill alone, but it doesnt matter because Madoka's back and literally no one believes she wont forgive her
>Sequel is in development hell because it's going to be way to predictable

Fuck off.

That's exacly the problem, user.

Except the Kyuubeys say that defeating wraiths still helps reverse entropy, right? Just to a much lesser degree than witches did.

That's why the Kyuubey's were still even there, after all, if killing Wraiths held no benefits, the Kyuubey's wouldn't bother with the whole magical girl shtick.

She gave Madoka a second chance.

No she didn't, stupid. Fighting witches IS suffering. Mahou Shoujo still suffer and live tragically short lives in Madoka's system, literally the only thing she does is delete them at the moment of their succumbing to despair. There is no net decrease in suffering in Madoka's world, all she does is remove the consequences of this suffering.

I love Homura-chan! just regard $hinbo as a moron.

see ,11

She took certain commentary the amnesiac madoka said and ran win it.

This is some really effective bait, user, you're probably going to get a lot of people with it.

At what? She had made the decision to take on the responsibility of the magical girls fates, and shit did it willingly.

I'm sure if you asked her if she wanted to spend a few months at best living with her family before having to become Godoka again, she'd refuse, she had already made her choice, and wasn't going to back down from it for anything.

All Homura did was defile Madoka's god form and force her to live as a human until she regains her memory ((which, again, seemingly wouldn't take very long, considering she almost remembered on the very first day)) and then Madoka will be forced to deal with Homura's betrayal of her trust, which would only make her feel worse in the long run, since Homura isn't even technically a magical girl anymore, and so Madoka won't be able to absolve her and take her to Godoka heaven like she did with the others.

> There is no net decrease in suffering in Madoka's world

Given by what we see in Rebellion, a magical girl who has turned into a witch is literally nothing BUT a walking pile of suffering, with the magical girl only being able to feel despair and pain.

So I'd say she did decrease it a fair bit.

,12

see

The magical girls still feel all the despair necessary to turn into witches in the first place, though, otherwise Madoka wouldn't have to come save them at all. She's not making their lives any easier, they just get a get out of jail free card instead of exploding like bombs when the pain gets too great to bear.

Fuck off!

A second chance at doing what she wanted to do at life.

...

Fuck off.

Still better than nothing, user, I'd take having my despair cleared and taken to godoka heaven than spend who knows how long existing as a witch where you literally only know pain and suffering.

Madoka could never make Magical girls a good thing without removing the point of it in the first place and/or irrevocably fucking up the worlds timeline, but she can at least let the girls pass on content after their pain is taken on by Madoka.

...

Again, she had willingly taken on responsibility for the magical girls, and she was happy to be able to do such a great thing for them, even if it meant sacrificing her life. By the way she talks about it in the series, I don't think she would regret her decision at all.

And, again, all Homura is giving her is a few uneasy months at best until she remembers everything and has to deal with leaving ((again)) as well as dealing with Homura, who she deeply cares for, who betrayed her trust and defiled her wish. If Homura had just gone with her they could have lezzed it up in Madoka heaven and everything would have been fine for both of them, now Homura has just caused more suffering.

>I don't think she would regret her decision at all.
youtube.com/watch?v=__q9fsZa5vk
vimeo.com/162641948

So what would happen if a magical girl were to just ignore their power and refuse to fight witches? If they never bother with the bullshit that comes with being a magical girl and live life with a positive attitude like they never made the contract, they would never sully their gem right? Their soul gem would never corrupt and they'd get off scot-free, right?

Possibly, but the way QB phrases the contract leaves them no reason to not use magic to try and grant their wish. You wouldn't make a deal if it didn't benefit you after all, anybody willing to form a contract would be willing to fight.

Remember when Kyuubey stepped on Sayaka's soul gem and she felt extreme pain?

I imagine if you refused to fight witches, they'd probably just keep doing that to you until you agree'd to.

Didn't Mami say in the 1st movie that just existing in their magical girl bodies is a slight drain on their gem's power 24/7? If you didn't fight, eventually you'd run out of magic just like if you overdid it while fighting a Witch and pop anyway. You have no choice, if you don't fight witches for grief seeds your soul gem has a finite life before total drainage and then Witchhood. I think that Gen added this dialogue specifically to counter the Frodo question of "Why don't they just ignore their power if it sucks so much?"

I guess she went crazy from no Madoka, so now she's an insane devil who fucks up everything.

Her problem was anime studios love money.

>Again, she had willingly taken on responsibility for the magical girls, and she was happy to be able to do such a great thing for them, even if it meant sacrificing her life. By the way she talks about it in the series, I don't think she would regret her decision at all.

One of the Kirara Magicas had an interview were Shinbo said if Homura hadn't gone devil, Kyubey would have just tried to capture Madoka until he succeed. Face it, Homura did nothing wrong and Shaft will inevitably justify everything she did because she's by far the most popular meguca and carries their franchise.

She did.

> Kyubey would have just tried to capture Madoka

But without Homura, there's no one left who knows about Madoka except for the Kyuubeys.

It's not like they'd be able to convince some stupid teenage girl to give up a wish for potentially anything for some kind of obscure "let us control this concept god' wish without asking questions and probably being spooked off.

They don't specifically need Homura to capture Madoka. So long as there's a supply of magical girls to seal away in soul-jail, Madoka will be compelled to come save them just like she did with Homura. Eventually their plan is bound to work.

But isn't the whole reason they used Homura in the first place because Homura was the only one who could bring people into the soul jail? She brought in the people that she knew from the outside world, Madoka happened to be one of them, so she could get through along with Sayaka and Bebe in an attempt to save her.

If what you said was the case, they probably should have used anyone BUT Homura, since only she really knows what Madoka had been through and would probably be the only one who would be willing to turn into a witch rather than try to be saved.

Madoka came to save her of her own accord, and dragged Sayaka and Nagisa along with her. The people that Homura herself brought in were Mami, Kyoko, and Christ-chan. Kyubey chose Homura because she was the juiciest bait for luring in Madoka, but in the event of no Homura being available, other magical girls could also work because Madoka has a compulsion to save everyone.

>probably be the only one to turn into a witch rather than be saved
The idea that Homura might do this literally didn't cross Kyubey's mind for even a second, he states outright how confused he is when Homura chooses this path.

People willingly choose to do self-destructive shit all the time. It's the duty of true friends and loved ones to try and save them from themselves. There is nothing wrong with staging an intervention to try and save a self-destructive person from doing stupid shit to themselves.

>All this suicide imagery in Rebellion and the concept movie
Daily reminder that the meaning of love is found through death and that the ultimate form of love is that you wish to die together.

t. yandere

>Everything was settled perfectly in the anime
No, it wasn't. If anything, it shat on Homura's ideals and ruined her very character and motivations. Rebellion redeemed that.

>YFW "I've finally.....caught you"

> Madoka came to save her of her own accord, and dragged Sayaka and Nagisa along with her.

What I'm saying is that while Madoka wanted in, Homura had to 'OK' it before she could actually enter, and even then, she re-wrote Madoka's memories to suit the needs of her world.

Basically it's like if they had put some out of town Magical girl in a soul jail instead, or even just any magical girl in the 'wraith' timeline for that matter. Madoka would not have been able to get into that world because she doesn't fit in it, she doesn't exist in the memories of anyone but Homura, so whatever kind of world they make, there could not be some stranger like Madoka.

Madoka only made her contract in the heat of the moment because otherwise Homura was gonna fucking die. She could have called Kyubey to do it at any time when Homura left but didn't do it until she saw her all beat up. Homura saved her from the consequences of her retarded actions.

She was pretty calm when she made the decision actually, she even took into account that her wish may be wrong.

Doesn't really sound like a 'heat of the moment' desperation wish if you ask me.

Also, Madoka seemed to have made up her mind about her wish around the time she had the confrontation with her mother and ran away from the shelter, and if that's the case, why would she bother waiting?

For all she knew at that point, Homura may have turned back time and fucked her over again.

The Madoka in Homura's jail was an anomaly. It could've been created because of their relationship, or it could've been due to the jail.

...

>What the FUCK was her problem?
Nothing. She did nothing wrong.

Tbh I was more surprised by Homura is a witch twist

This is the best scene in the movie:
youtube.com/watch?v=XSEDHdpI6ek
prove me wrong.

Was it? I figured that of course the ideal world Homura created would have Madoka in it, so she wanted her to come in, Godoka responded and went in knowing that she was probably going to be altered in some way, so she divided her godhood shit up between Sayaka and Bebe. Godoka gets her memories re-written since Madoka can't know anything about the original timeline or her god self for it to work, and she ends up being the altered Madoka in the labyrinth world.

Which is why I figured that anyone other than Homura couldn't have brought Madoka in, because even if they tried to edit her memories, they wouldn't know her, she doesn't knowingly exist in reality, and only Homura remembers her.

Conveys the dread and despair of Homura's realisation, pretty horrible stuff. Her whole world just crumbles into a nightmare.

She loved Madoka so much that she was willing to do anything to get her back

What was the point of the dolls yelling Fort Da?

> 'Fort-Da!', meaning 'Gone, and there!'? It is a reference to the Austrian psychoanalyst Sigmund Freud. He taught children this chant in order to make them feel that having their mother be 'gone'(leave) and 'there'(return) is not a serious event. Perhaps the Clara dolls were trying to emotionally detach Homura(the child) from Madoka(mother-like figure).

Apparently.

Go back to your bed, Meguca

>What the FUCK was her problem?
Couldn't sit properly.

It's not real love, though. That's the whole point of the series. Homura's, and all of the other magical girls' feelings are ultimately selfish, unlike Madoka's. That's why Madoka's wish is the only one that purely works to create a better world. Assuming another film actually gets made, it will be about Homura being forced to confront just how selfish her feelings are.

>Homura destroys her own happiness and condemns herself to an existence eternally separated from Madoka, all to give Madoka her happiness back
>"dude she should stop being selfish lmao"
ebin

This is the dumbest post I've read today, but I've only been on for an hour, so who knows.

...

She was already a Witch when Madoka came to take her into the Law of Cycles, and a Witch probably as powerful as Madoka's would have been at the end of the series. She was lacking any form of rational thought and was only left with the irrational notion of saving Madoka at any cost.

"saving" in this case meaning pigeonholing her into what Homura believes to be an acceptable life for Madoka

It's the life that Madoka herself admitted to be her ideal back when they were talking in the flower field. The same conversation in which she admitted that being God sounds like shit.

And yet Madoka chose to be God anyway. Homura takes away her agency not because she believes Madoka is miserable, but because she wants to control her. The final scene of Rebellion, where Madoka almost returns to godhood is the best reflection of their relationship

I'm fairly certain that Madoka only appears in this world because it's Homura's world. Since Madoka exists there, but not outside, they learned about her faster.

Chances are if they failed with Homura, Kyubei would've tested other magical girls and eventually gained control of Madoka.

Madoka sent her agents into this world because she was unable to go. I can't remember entirely, but one part of the plan was to witness the transformation of a magical girl into a witch.

Madoka didn't CHOOSE to be god. She made a wish that reflected all of her feelings about the ordeal of magical girls. If her wish ends with her being God, or just an idea/concept/law of the universe, she was okay with the results.

The Madoka in Homura's world, as far as we know, can be the real Madoka, or Homura's idea of Madoka. We don't know.

I am also basically 100% convinced that Homura only sped up the inevitable realisation of Madoka's existance. The incubators would have tried to take control with or without Homura and it's not like they aren't stubborn as hell, so they would have just kept trying.

This would actually be a pretty solid twist for the next movie. Finding out that this whole time Homura has been fighting for a fake Madoka

>The Madoka in Homura's world, as far as we know, can be the real Madoka, or Homura's idea of Madoka. We don't know.
This is a stupid opinion. It adds unnecessary uncertainty without any evidence to back it up.

And regardless of whether or not Madoka chose the specific mechanic of godhood, Homura still chose to remove her agency because she believes her selfish desire to control is love. She is wrong, and that's why she's still not happy.

I don't think she wants to control Madoka, she just Madoka to have a chance at a life. Homura was tired of how self-sacrificial Madoka had been in all previous timelines.

I'm fairly certain it's the real Madoka, or at least the fragment of Madoka that existed in the Law of Cycles.

Homura in the series is the mainfestation of grief. They call them 'grief seeds' for good reason, the witches are supposed to represent the regrets of magical girls not having lived their lives.
This is why Madoka says 'she won't have any regrets' right before she fires her arrow in episode 12 and homu cries out as she's buffeted by the wind. She can't stand that Madoka found something to live/die for and it wasn't her, when Homu dedicated everything to Madoka.
Homu is a great tragic character and it was perfect that she became a 'devil' herself. She made the same decision Madoka did, but Madoka did it for the right reasons to protect her sense of what was right and preserve the future she wanted, Homu is literally stuck in the past trying to redo the same time loop over and over to make everything 'right' again but there's no way.
That's why the last scene of rebellion has Homu freaking out over Madoka getting her senses back, because Homu never got past her dependence and obsession with Madoka but Madoka was able to let her family and friends go.
Homu's story isn't important anymore. She lost, she lost long ago, rebellion was just a replay of her loss to me. Her trying to regain something and failing yet again, dramatized and shoehorned into the end of the madoka plot.
There won't be another movie because the story is over and sayaka is worst girl.

Usurpers gotta usurp

My opinion is based on the fact that it's never stated that the Madoka in Homura's world is Godoka. An opinion based on lack of evidence isn't stupid.

It'd be easier for you to state the point in the movie where it's implied or stated, rather than throwing an insult.

And I'm not arguing about Homura's separation of Madoka, nor it's moral implications.

And, imo, this is a story of a child who cannot get over the loss of a loved one. What she has IS love. She ALSO has the power to potentially prevent the loss of that loved one. We're watching what happens when a child is given the ability to prevent a death, but at a cost far greater than initially thought, and with the desires of others, and possiby fate itself, interfering constantly.

Side question: How old is Homura mentally? Can spending years in a time loop mature a person or does it stagnate their development?

Because Urobuchi cant write for shit

Homura has the emotional intelligence of a child! Homura is a bad girl!

Honestly, I'd say she's got the mentality of a smart child who's probably traumatized.

She already knew about Kyubei, but then told him about Madoka. Her body can't grow anymore, as it's just a husk being controlled through magic. This means she physically has the mental capacity of a child still.

But the logic involved in considering her age can be disregarded because of MAGIC. So it's a rough call.

>yfw you realize that wraiths must have been there before QBs made pacts with little girls and created the first witch.
Wraiths were the original form of humanity's angst.

Kys stupid nigger, right now Homura has a human avatar that is the person who Madoka has most interacted with since "returning from America".

She hasn't sacrifice shit so long as this ruse continues.

Bullshit, Homura is what made them think about the concept of witches when they've been creating Wraiths for over 10,000 years. She planted that idea in them that the Law that takes magical girls had a form and consciousness.

It makes sense. Everything ended well for the universe and everyone involved except for Homura. Homura is psychologically damaged by time looping for who-knows-how-long to the point where even if the universe is saved, if it means a universe without Madoka, Homura is not satisfied with that result.

Except the anime ended with her having that conversation with Junko which basically let her move on passed her failure. She gives Junko her prized possession of Madoka's ribbon, smiles for the first time, and has a monologue saying if this is Madoka's world then she'd protect it with her life, ending with that final battle and the promise that Madoka was with her in spirit and they'd meet again in death.

She spent 10 years looping time. Mentally, she's 24

Yeah, and that was a shit ending. Homura's one defining character trait is her unbreakable will. She does not give up. Ever. She didn't give up in any of the previous 100 failed attempts to save Madoka, and it totally breaks character for her to just lie back and take it on attempt 101 because oh shit you guys, we're on the last episode and the anime needs to end now

>Who knows how long
I thought it was 20something years

If anything, Rebellion shows she's regressed to the mentality of a 4-year old toddler

Rebellion was necessary for Homura's character.

She could never have been okay with Madoka's sacrifice. She herself said it was worse than death. Episode 12 Homura was horrifically out of character and Rebellion set her back on track, as much as people might hate to admit it.

I don't think she'd be 24 mentally considering she literally never got to move forward in life. It was more like she experienced those 10 years in a sort of stasis.

I just ignore Rebellion entirely, and considering the retards who like this trash I'm sure I'm making the right decision.

I can't belIeve people dislike Rebellion, Rebellion is the only justification I can see for anyone calling this series anything close to a masterpiece.

Madoka doesn't love Homura and will eventually destroy her. That's the ending you were given. Homura never once did a good deed and will burn for it.

it's the pleb filter, user

Her problem is that they needed more money.

>there are people on Sup Forums right now, RIGHT NOW who are still too stupid to understand this.

Rebellion is controversial for the sake of being controversial, they should just treat it like some fanfiction written by an obsessive Homurafag and ignore it while the anime ending remains canon.