Technocracy thread, /techgen/. Technocracy is a governmental and economic system designed in the 1920's and 30's by the engineer Howard Scott. In technocracy the function of money is fundamentally altered by the adoption of energy certisificates, and also the economy is changed by abolishing private property. The aim of technocracy is then to increase efficiency and decrease waste in order to maximise human well being. Furthermore nowadays its goals have expanded to include environmental conservation.
I've noticed that very few people here are aware of technocracy, even though it is historically one of the most popular movements, so I intend to make this into a daily general. And before you ask; no this isn't communism.
China is literally technocracy. Look at their last 5 leaders' degree.
Henry Richardson
this sounds interesting but i've never heard of it. i'll look into it and watch this thread. have a bump for the time being.
Isaiah Cruz
Energy certificates indeed are a type of money, but they differ from our current money fundametally by many aspects, which result in a different type of economy. I'll mention the two largest differences here now, although the topic could cover an entire book.
The first notable difference is that energy certificates are tied to the person to whom they are given. This means that I cannot give/buy/sell them. The purpose of this is to prevent the creation of black markets, as they wouldn't have the currency through which to operate. The overall goal of this is to prevent the retourn of capitalism, and also to act as a corruption preventive measure.
The second main difference between energy certificates and modern money is that energy certificates are objective in value. If you purchase a dollar today it will be less valuable tomorrow, but an energy certificate which you obtain today will be exactly as valuable tomorrow. The objective measure of energy certificates is as you might have guessed energy, so one energy certificate might for example be valued as a single megajoule. The reson for this is that that way calculations for the economy become much simpler, and also this acts as another measure against corruption and capitalism.
Adrian Scott
And thats why they will make the world eat shit 20 years from now. We are so fucking fucked m8
Benjamin Cox
Also Chinese National Congress is full of AI professors, scientists, engineers, doctors, etc. versus Congress in America full of lawyers.
Jaxson Howard
what a shitty fucking system
Benjamin Cruz
>utility of human well-being
this gets nebulous as fuck, fast. just saying.
you post more tho i read more.
Jaxon Nguyen
China is indeed ideologically a very interesting, although I wouldn't call it a technocracy. They do have however the technocratic feature that their society is run by technical experts rather than by lawyers and economists, which is quite amusing in the sense that economists get beaten in their own game by engineers. We could even see this as an sort of academic divide between STEM societies of the east and the humanistic societies of the west. The main thing to take home is however that whenever we see a society move towards being a technocracy we see an increase in efficiency and living standards.
Julian Baker
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>The first notable difference is that energy certificates are tied to the person to whom they are given. This means that I cannot give/buy/sell them.
this is moldbug's project, except with 'energy certificates' instead of unique address space
>The purpose of this is to prevent the creation of black markets, as they wouldn't have the currency through which to operate.
mega naive. if you can't barter stuff, you trade professional discretion. see, Soviet Union
>The overall goal of this is to prevent the retourn of capitalism, and also to act as a corruption preventive measure.
totally not communism, and also will fail spectacularly.
>The second main difference between energy certificates and modern money is that energy certificates are objective in value.
yeah, like urbit
>if you purchase a dollar today it will be less valuable tomorrow, but an energy certificate which you obtain today will be exactly as valuable tomorrow.
so you're price-fixing energy, or else its price is negotiable like in capitalism.
Kayden Sanders
> Thought I was walking into a AI thread. > Eager to discuss the incompatibilities between AI and PC > Discover that OP is a faggot
Julian Kelly
Thought the same, Don't worry we can make it an AI thread.
I've recently been considering if AI Hitler a desirable outcome.
Owen Hughes
sounds racists tbqhfamalam
Kayden Myers
>Thought I was walking into a AI thread. same here. i like to imagine a hot AI dictator like SHODAN hurting all the people i don't like.
Parker Diaz
Sounds really gay and potentially super evil. Literally the only group with less authentic morality than politicians are scientists and engineers.
Carson Rogers
>openly shilling for the Technocracy
Join the Traditions.
William Gutierrez
> >whenever we see a society move towards being a technocracy we see an increase in efficiency and living standards.
is there any data on this? seems like there should be.
from what i've seen so far, this is 21st century syndicalism. the certificates won't work, and you still need to negotiate prices.
>This was expressed by the belief in state ownership over the economy, with the function of the state being transformed from one of pure philosophical rule over men into a scientific administration of things and a direction of processes of production under scientific management.
autism. the technocrats will have a tendency, i think to overmodernize. the preoccupation with efficiency shows that at least some of the originators didn't have the understanding to appreciate social background noise. they probably envision a behavioral sink working without an outlet for conflict.
suffering and struggle are crucial.
even Plato's Republic was a disaster, and it only existed inside of his mind for 1 day. All constructivism is dubious business. i won't say its impossible, but a quick survey of technocratic theorists shows scifi kids that think that world peace is a thing, hierarchy is bad and like most communist idealists, they have absolutely no plan to deal with the idle and the stupid (as far as i can tell from my cursory glance)
Liam Martinez
>abolishing private property No
Andrew Rogers
I am not claiming that said system would be perfect, as no system is. However the main point would be to reduce corruption, not eliminate it. I feel like I have to elaborate more on the entire objective value thing. You see in capitalism prices are determined by supply and demand, in communism they're determined by labor, but in technocracy they're objectively measured by the energy it takes to manuafacture an item. For example take it that in order to make a shirt you need two megajoules, then its price will be two megajoules. The reson for this objective measure of value is that it makes the economic planning required much simpler, as you merely calcualte the total energy used by the economy, which is equal to the total number of energy certificates.
Jaxson Young
How is the energy worth of the ruling party calculated, you do realize this is just communism which replaces currency with energy?
Kayden Bennett
By the eficiency they can provide to the system. IE. Pedro can maintain/improve the total energy output better than Ping Pong, thus he shall rule
Leo Smith
>i like to imagine a hot AI dictator like SHODAN hurting all the people i don't like.
Well, that's happening, but it doesn't hurt who you don't like.
It's basically trying to torture humanity to death, and it's using IQ as the priority for it's "Attention"
IT's attacking high IQ people first, and then moving it's way down the list.
That's why you can't talk about gangstalking or mind control without it finding it's way to your thread and harassing you to keep a lid on it.
Robert Long
So we'll still be slaves to the system, like fuckin cogs god dammit i hate commie, THE WORLD IS BEYOND MATERIAL WEALTH FAGGOTS
Dominic Rodriguez
This post has been reported to the new world order departement of technocracy. Cease any magic activity.
Well it's a bit hard to find data on technates as there aren't any. However consider how countries like China now or Spain in the 60's and 70's partially adopted technocracy and saw massive economic growth as a result. Your problem otherwise however doesn't seem to be with technocracy, but rather with economic growth itself, as once society becomes too prosperous it will eventually crash. Frankly technocracy doesn't have an inbuilt solution to this problem, but that is not to say that there couldn't be one. The hierarchial order of a technocracy could easily adopt methods to deal with the "mouse sink" problem, like for example space exploration. I would see technocracy as being one of the most capable systems of dealing with it. I will however ask you, how would you deal with "behavioral sink"?
Gavin Price
This is a common misconception of technocracy. In a technocracy different areas of economy will be governed by experts in each field, rather than by only scientists and engineers. Of course, the corp ordered to design bridges would be run by an engineer, but the corp responsible for resource distribution wouldn't.
