Sola scriptura, sola fide, sola gratia, solus Christus, soli Deo gloria

Sola scriptura, sola fide, sola gratia, solus Christus, soli Deo gloria

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Disgusting man who destroyed Europe.

S

Begone, papist

Jesus: sin no more
Luther: be a sinner and sin boldly

>t. polish plumber in london
>t. british sex tourist in warsaw

Does not say sola scriptural or sola fides anywhere in the bible. No thanks Man made Lutheran dogmas

what the heck, Poland?

My spine shivers when I think about how much suffering this man must go through in Hell.

Did you, uh, read the Bible?
>Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”

There are a couple of atheist and protty Poles here. Boggles my mind, but it's true.

Nice to see why they scraped out James.
>Faith without works is dead

We are saved by grace alone through Christ alone justified by faith (not faith alone) and works for the glory of god alone. Scripture is infallible but not the only source of dogma and morals

And a lightbulb that has no power running to it doesn't turn on. It's not the light the causes the bulb to turn on, the light is the consequence of the power.

Does not say faith alone. Show me the one place where it says faith alone please.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast

Hail Odin

James 2:14-26 New International Version (NIV)
Faith and Deeds
>14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

>18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”

>Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

>20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[a]? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[b] and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

>25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

James 2:14-19 Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)
Faith without Works Is Dead

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him?[ 15 If a brother or sister is ill-clad and in lack of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.

18 But some one will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder.
24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith alone?
26 For even as the body without the spirit is dead; so also faith without works is dead.

Does not say faith alone. Try again please.

>(Matthew 7:21) “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will.
>(James 2:14-17) "What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead."
>(James 2:26) "For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead."
>(Matthew 5:16) "In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven."
>(John 14:15) "If you love me, you will keep my commandments."
>(1 Corinthians 6:9-10) "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."
Galatians 5:19-21 – Now the works of the flesh are evident which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, out bursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissentions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God.
youtube.com/watch?v=L14UNjaZJm8&t=

What it says is that nothing we can do ourselves justifies us. It says we are justified through faith. Thus, if you grasp logic, it says that we are justified by faith and nothing we do.

What is happening in Rome: youtube.com/watch?v=v8J-Ae8QPVI&t=

faith alone

πίστεως μόνον.

THE COUNCIL OF TRENT
Session VI - January 13, 1547 Pope Paul III
Canon 9.
If anyone says that the sinner is justified by faith alone, meaning that nothing else is required to cooperate in order to obtain the grace of justification, and that it is not in any way necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the action of his own will, let him be anathema.
ewtn.com/library/COUNCILS/TRENT6.HTM

Solo demiurgos

>What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?

What that means is if someone claims to have faith but lacks works (an outward indication of faith) that he does not have genuine faith. It's very simple. James says "that faith" referring to what the "someone" called "faith" but is no faith at all.

Nope that means grace. Your "logic" is a man made tradition not found in scripture. Show me where it says faith alone please as I follow scripture not traditions of men

Topkek. Image is saved forever.

We have faith only by grace. Pick a random epistle and you'll find that reaffirmed again and again.

Ah here it is. Thank you. It seems we are not justified by faith alone. Scripture 1 protestants 0

Are you trolling?

Agreed

So you agree that faith alone is not sufficient justification but faith and works is required

Of course not. This is like first grade reading comprehension.

Yeah we don't take your interpretation. Paul tells is that the Church is the bulwark of the truth..

Not everything to be believed by a Christian is directly in the Bible.

Why does one assume that everything about the Christian Faith has to be in the Bible (Sola Scriptura)
Is it the SOLE rule of faith for Christians ?

That is not Scriptual.
For a Christian what is the Pillar and Bulwark of the Truth ? The Bible ?

Goto 1 Timothy 3:15
5 if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.

So it is the CHURCH and not the BIBLE that is the pillar and bulwark of the truth for a Christian.
The ONE true and apostalic CHURCH founded by Jesus and who's authority was given to Peter.

If the church is the pillar and bulwark of truth then are not Catholics correct in listening to the Church on matters of faith and proper interpretation of scripture. That is has an indespensible role in setting us free ?

This is why it is firmly established in my mind.

Why does one believe that the bible is the sole rule of faith for a christian ? Where in the BIBLE does it say that ?
Ought not the BIBLE say that ? Nowhere in the Bible does it say that. It ain't there

Works don't justify if works means something in our power. If works are a necessary consequence of God's grace, then there is no meaningful distinction since they cannot be pulled apart and are found together by necessity. The only thing that James says is that where you find genuine faith you will find works, so that works are an indication of a person's justification.

Ok, so here's what happened:
I met this girl in World of Warcraft, we talked, exchanged msn messenger accounts and kept talking there when I quit the game. One day she suggested I should meditate while listening to some song:
youtube.com/watch?v=f8KNMU18M40
I listened to the song and meditated and I guess it inspired me to see an image of a naked girl on a night forest surrounded by white wolves, but when I finished meditating I felt weird, she had done something to me, I couldn't feel my feelings, it's kinda hard to explain. Inmediately after this I noticed a force touching my penis, and I experienced suddenly a very long uninterrupted orgasm without ejaculation, about 30 minutes or so.
She laughed at it when I mentioned it and claimed authorship.
That same night I experienced union with God, as in feeling fused to him, it seemed God had decided in advanced that what was about to begin for me deserved heaven.
The next days it all started nice, she would call me, talk with love to me and I would get pleasured sexually magically, this went on for a few days, until she apparently tired of me and a supernatural force started torturing me, draining my life force and causing harm, there was poltergeist phenomena, rooms would freeze in temperature and I would sense presences about, hateful pressences, there were horrible odours too, except for one odour, like strawberries.
So she tortured me and talked cruelly to me, I felt useless, I was so far away from her and she was whooping my ass with magic. Then some faggot joined in, he added himself to my account and started talking shit, then I dreamed that I was the girl of the meditation vision and I was being raped by the two of them, and when I woke up I was feeling the attack physically and fell very sick of the stomach, as if I was really raped magically.
I tried doing some harmful magic towards them with the satanic bible of lavey, nothing happened, but they stopped attacking me.

Cont.

When I used the satanic magic against them, she was pretty scared about it, so they left me alone, then I started studying religions, first I tried a website, it was www.spiritualresearchfoundation.com or something along the lines, initially, by performing the chant as they suggested, things went well, but rapidly I was being constantly attacked by spirits (by this time I had already noticed I was posessed -she put it there-).
Anyway, after some time chanting, I started feeling better, yes, but when the spirits attacked, the sensation of comfort quickly disappeared and I would not be able to sleep no more because of how hard I would be attacked by the spirits. They constantly tried to rape me and would touch me all day long, wherever I was going, I was being followed by said spirits, in the end I got tired of not being able to sleep and sent the religion to hell, in that very moment it all stopped.
So I decided that I was wrong in my choice of religion, and decided for christianity, bad move, pretty much the same happened, initially it went well, I was apparently welcomed into the religion, but quickly I would be attacked by the spirits and bad shit would happen to my, my family almost went bankrupt, so I started doubting christianity and testing it, one thing that convinced me to drop christianity instantly was my alleged conversations with "god" I would do bibliomancy, I used to ask questions, open the bible at a random paragraph and get my answer from there, it was all promises and charming words initially, but the more I progressed, the more I felt there was a deceitful intelligence behind the answers I was getting, so I believed gnosticism aaaand, and it all stopped, the spirit never raped me again, then again I chose to believe in gnosticism my own way, by placing the god that I fused with in the place of the gnostic god.

Then 10 years later, I purchased children of the matrix by Icke.

That's a different matter. I wasn't defending sola scriptura.

Cont.
While reading this book, I noticed that the reptilians of Icke posessed people, so I figured this could be my case, since it was very strange, the posessing reptilian would do things very archonic, like decrease my imagination and mind prowess, but also other things like suggesting I should worship the dark god (sic). One thing this reptilian has done is intervene my mind, it inserts thoughts and sounds in my mind to tell me stories and he tells some wild tales about divinity and gods.

TL;DR Reptilians are real and gnosticism seems to be true, what do you make out of this?

Yes sir, yes sir, yes sir, fuck off sir!

Congratulations you just explained justification by faith and works (both of which are graces from God and not of yourself) and you are denying justification by faith alone

-.-
mental gymnastics
you completely overlooked the others

Well, that's a straw man of "faith alone", I think. Are there any protestants who could claim that it is metaphysically possible for someone to have genuine faith and be justified yet exhibit no works?

So why are you still a Lutheran?

Where does Luther say otherwise?

Satan's Ministers Are Condemned By James 2 (Justification by Faith alone is a herasy)(5 mins)
youtube.com/watch?v=3JIYQTNbnNE

The Best Bible Passage To Refute Once Saved Always Saved and Faith Alone (6 mins)
youtube.com/watch?v=vJo1OZcLtlA

The Key to John 3:16 (Salvation IS NOT assured by Faith alone) (8 mins)
youtube.com/watch?v=SyXQSUT4_hI

Protestants Err on "The Golden Chain of Redemption" and Once Saved Always Saved. (10 mins)
youtube.com/watch?v=nsljFA7y4n8

Can a Christian LOSE Salvation ? YES! (14 mins)
youtube.com/watch?v=K_4RFoknrwc

Documentary: Protestantism's Big Justification Lie (1hr 33minutes)
youtube.com/watch?v=L14UNjaZJm8

Of course there are. Do you know how many roasties are sinning themselves to shit because they believe that as long as they believe in Jesus, they will go to heaven?

Luther (the Catholic Priest) that believed in pugatory, indulgneces and that the office of the Pope was instituted by Chirst.
He says so right in his 95 Thesis that he nailed to the Wittenburg Church. Even afterwards he said that only the Catholic Church was the way to heaven.
That Luther ?

Or the Luther that removed 7 books from the Bible (9 at first) and to added the word ALONE to Romans 3:28
and then said , "Thus I will have it, thus I order it, my will is reason enough."

or the Luther that said,
"No sin will separate us from the Lamb, even though we commit fornication and murder athousand times a day."

or the Luther that thought the best way to defeat the devil was to "throw him in his anus"

mostholyfamilymonastery.com/luther_denominations.pdf

By claiming that one only needs faith and no works.

Have you ever read Martin Luther's thesis ?

The formal title for his 95 Theses is:
"The Disputation of Doctor Martin Luther on the Power and Efficacy of Indulgences"
Oct. 31, 1517.

In addition to acknowledging the pope, indulgences and their efficacy, numbers 25-29 of the Theses acknowledge Purgatory.

here read this

#71 of Martin Luther’s 95 Theses
, Oct. 31, 1517:

“Let him be anathema and accursed who denies the apostolic character of the indulgences.”

The Pope is a devil-worshiping cult leader and Catholics are deranged satanists.

I meant protestant reformers, not lay people who are mostly confused even about basic doctrine regardless of their denomination.

No that's literally what faith alone is. If you believe works justify at all you as you explained then you are denying the exclusivity of faith alone justification. Protestants literally say you go to hell for believing what you said.

Works may be overlooked by the eyes of man but not by God.

The 1611 KJV had a list of Holy Days to be observed throughout the year, including

– Christmas (“The Nativitie of Our Lord”) and Easter
– The Purification of the Blessed Virgin
– The Annunciation of the Blessed Virgin
– All Saints’ Day
– other Saints’ Days

The REAL 1611 KJV had marginal cross-references to the Deuterocanonical books from the Septuigent:

– Daniel 8:25 – the note in the margin reads, “2 Macc. 6:9,” a cross-reference to a book of 2 Maccabees

– Matthew 6:7 – the note in the margin reads, “Ecclus. 7:16,” a cross-reference to a book of Ecclesiasticus

– Matthew 23:37 – the note in the margin reads, “Wisd. 2:15,16,” a cross-reference to a book of Wisdom

– Matthew 27:43 – the note in the margin reads, “4 Esd. 1:30,” a cross-reference to a book of 4 Esdra

– Luke 14:13 – the note in the margin reads, “Tob. 4:7,” a cross-reference to a book of Tobit

– John 10:22 – the note in the margin reads, “1 Macc. 4:59,” a cross-reference to a book of 1 Maccabees

– Hebrews 11:35 – the note in the margin reads, “2 Macc. 7:7,” a cross-reference to a book of 2 Maccabees

The 1611 KJV contained the Deuterocanonicals. Interesting that King James himself thought it important enough to spend the time and resources to have it translated and printed in a protestant bible.

The 1611 KJV had a calendar for each month of the year, which included:

A list of designated Saint Days!

A list of designated fast days!

A schedule of Scripture readings for morning and evening prayer which included passages from Judith, Wisdom & Ecclesiasticus). You know, those “uninspired,” “unauthoritative,” “unscriptural” books?

Luther was wrong because he mixed up works of the law of Moses (Paul) with works of the christian faith (James). There is no contradiction. It's just a mistake from him.

SEPTUAGINT QUOTES IN THE NEW TESTAMENT


Of the approximately 300 Old Testament quotes in the New Testament, approximately 2/3 of them came from the Septuagint (the Greek translation of the Old Testament) which included the deuterocanonical books that the Protestants later removed. This is additional evidence that Jesus and the apostles viewed the deuterocanonical books as part of canon of the Old Testament.

scripturecatholic.com/septuagint-quotes-new-testament/

Translators’ Preface to the 1611 King James Version: “For as it is a fault of incredulity, to doubt of those things that are evident: so to determine of such things as the Spirit of God hath left (even in the judgment of the judicious) questionable, can be no less than presumption. Therefore as S. Augustine saith, that variety of Translations is profitable for the finding out of the sense of the Scriptures: [S. Aug. 2. de doctr. Christian. cap. 14.] so diversity of signification and sense in the margin, where the text is no so clear, must needs do good, yea, is necessary, as we are persuaded.”

In their preface to the 1611 King James Bible, the translators also praise St. Augustine and St. Jerome, even though Augustine and Jerome were Catholic saints whose views would be condemned as non-Christian by KJV-Onlyists in our day. In fact they defer to Catholic Saints opinions over 100 times!

Catholics believe in Scripture interpreted through the church's magesterium, based on the biblical promise from Jesus to Peter that his faith would not fail.

Also Paul taught us that the church is the bulwark of the truth.
So we believe in written tradition and verbal tradition.

Plus the Catholic Church has been arguing over the magesterium of translations for more than a 1000 years.

library.osu.edu/innovation-projects/omeka/exhibits/show/the-king-james-bible/sidebars/the-translators-preface-to-the

the absolute state of christcucks

Here is another portion of the translators notes from the 1611 KJV of the Bible telling you that the Septuagint is biblical and "the word of God". The books that modern KJV bibles do not include in their bibles.

Translators’ Preface to the 1611 KJV: “But, when the fulness of time drew near, that the Sun of righteousness, the Son of God should come into the world, whom God ordained to be a reconciliation through faith in his blood, not of the Jew only, but also of the Greek, yea, of all them that were scattered abroad; then lo, it pleased the Lord to stir up the spirit of a Greek Prince (Greek for descent and language) even of Ptolemy Philadelph King of Egypt, to procure the translating of the Book of God out of Hebrew into Greek. This is the translation of the Seventy Interpreters, commonly so called, which prepared the way for our Saviour among the Gentiles by written preaching, as Saint John Baptist did among the Jews by vocal… The translation of the Seventy dissenteth from the Original in many places, neither doth it come near it, for perspicuity, gravity, majesty; yet which of the Apostles did condemn it? Condemn it? Nay, they used it, (as it is apparent, and as Saint Jerome and most learned men do confess) which they would not have done, nor by their example of using it, so grace and commend it to the Church, if it had been unworthy of the appellation and name of the word of God.”
library.osu.edu/innovation-projects/omeka/exhibits/show/the-king-james-bible/sections/item/72

I said that works don't justify if they are in our power. If works are an involuntary (by grace) consequence of faith (by grace), then it is correct to say that we are saved through faith alone.

If I say an apple a day keeps the doctor a way, and someone starts squabbling about whether it is the skin of the apple, or the flesh, or the juice of the apple, that keeps the doctor away, that it is "not the apple alone" that keeps the doctor away, we are just having a linguistic dispute.

The Textus Receptus is not the Majority text even though KJVonists would have you believe so.

Look up John 3:36 in the KJV and compare it to the Greek.
biblehub.com/text/john/3-36.htm

Pic related.

Read this page. Especially the part about the Majority text vs the textus Receptus. Watch the video if you are so inclined.

mostholyfamilymonastery.com/catholicchurch/is-the-king-james-bible-infallible/

Go here and read passage 41-46 and then ask your self why it was taken out of Protestant bibles. Praying for the dead... Why ?

bible.oremus.org/?passage=2 Maccabees 12:41–46:41&version=nrsvae

Works are not voluntary
Jesus Christ the son of God tells us to obey him.
Adhering to obedience is works.
The Sacraments are works.
Not committing sin is works.

So protestants, how it worked out for you? How is sweden? How is UK? How is Germany?

Read
Galatians 3:25-27 then Galatians 5:19-21

Galatians 3:25-27
25 But after the faith is come, we are no longer under a pedagogue.
26 For you are all the children of God by faith, in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized in Christ, have put on Christ. (They are justified and sanctified)

Galatians 5:19-21
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are fornication, uncleanness, immodesty, luxury,
20 Idolatry, witchcrafts, enmities, contentions, emulations, wraths, quarrels, dissensions, sects,
21 Envies, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like. Of the which I foretell you, as I have foretold to you, that they who do such things shall NOT obtain the kingdom of God.

Paul says that those who have actually become the sons of god and put on Christ (are justified and sanctified and baptised) will not inherit the kingdom of God if they commit grave sins.
Anyone who teaches otherwise is heretical.

People believe once saved always saved because it is easy to adopt in their life without any accountability.

The Bible says few will be saved.

1 Peter 4:18 "And if the just man shall scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?"

Matthew 7:13-14 "
Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat.
How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it!

Luke 13:23-24
And a certain man said to him: Lord, are they few that are saved? But he said to them:
Strive to enter by the narrow gate; for many, I say to you, shall seek to enter, and shall not be able.

Agreed that works don't justify if they are not from God. You are not saved by faith, you are saved by grace and justified by faith which is a gift from god as are works which also justify. If you say you are justified by faith alone then that means works do not justify which contradicts what you believe.

You make it seem like we have faith by grace, and works by grace, like two independent branches. But we have works by faith which we have by grace, one is the root of the other. That is why one cannot have works without faith (works which are "dead"). Justification and works are both by faith.

Look at the absplute state of the modern protestant church. That isnt just what some protestant churches believe, its what the vast majority teach.

That and "once saved, always saved", used as an excuse to do evil...

I think even Germany has higher birthrates than catholic Polenland.

>but not before God.

y-you too

ah you are that schizophrenic spanjard from last year welcome back idiot

The Bible does NOT save faith alone..
Read this, goto the link and understand it.

Galatians 3:26-27
“For in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through the faith [τῆς πίστεως]. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.”
Go here and hold your cursor over the greek word (tēs)(τῆς) It means "the"
biblehub.com/text/galatians/3-26.htm

Galatians translates the EXACT same way as Ephesians 2:8

and here's another one that translates the exact same way.
Colossians 2:12
“… having been buried with him in baptism, by which you were also raised with him through the faith [τῆς πίστεως]…”

You are Saved by Faith in Jesus. Your sins are washed away by Baptism. You can commit new sins that bar you from going to heaven.
Jesus gave the Apostles a way to alleviate those sins.
Buy confessing them to one another.

John 20:21-23
21 Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

Why would Jesus give the discples a way to forgive sin if it didn't matter because they were all already saved ?

la creatura...

How about we check how much of this biths are natives and how much are muslims and niggers?

el goblino..

James says that Abraham's willingness to sacrifice Isaac, the lifting of the blade, is a "work" insofar as its absence would prove his lack of faith.

Abraham's FAITH is "completed" by the external action that verifies his faith. The "work" is not in addition to faith:

>You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works

Faith without works is dead in the eyes of man, but not before God.

>Why would Jesus give the discples a way to forgive sin if it didn't matter because they were all already saved ?

Because sin exists until the second coming. We still sin and experience the consequences of sin. Is this hard to understand? Sin did not disappear after the resurrection. Salvation is a promise for the future.

>Sola scriptura, sola fide, sola gratia
are all unbiblical.

Agreed. Justification by faith and works not by faith alone. You btfo sola fide protestants

Don't get worked up about this, he's literally blinded and struggles to see the obvious truth staring him in the face.

How do we know that Abraham was such a faithful guy? Well, he offered his son upon the altar. Without that, we wouldn't know with the same power his faithful he really was.

Not scriptural. Take your man made traditions elsewhere

Is that what they learn you in Swedish church, user?

Nope, it's plainly stated in the Bible:

>For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; BUT NOT BEFORE GOD. For what saith the scripture? Abraham BELIEVED God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness (Romans 4:2-3).

No, it's what the Bible teaches. I don't go to a Protestant church.

Yeah no.
Works are to get you back into a state of grace.
When you are Baptized all your previous sins and our original sin are wiped away. You get a clean slate.
When you accept Jesus as your Savior you receive your initial grace.
If you died at that moment you would goto heaven.

In early christianity many people believed, were saved for YEARS before they were allowed to be baptized. All the early Christen fathers taught that these people (catecumens) would got hell if they were not baptized.
In 140 A.D., the early Church Father Hermas quotes Jesus in John 3:5, and writes:
“They had need to come up through the water, so that they might be made alive; for they could not otherwise enter into the kingdom of God.

This statement is obviously a paraphrase of John 3:5, and thus it demonstrates that from the very beginning of the apostolic age it was held and taught by the fathers that no one enters heaven without being born again of water and the Spirit based specifically on Our Lord Jesus Christ’s declaration in John 3:5.

But we live on and sin because it is in our nature. When we sin we lose our grace. Small sins can be forgiven through prayer. Larger (mortal) sins have to be confessed like Jesus tells us to do in the Bible. To a priest. Like Jesus told the Apostles.

John 20:21-23
21 Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

Why would Jesus give the discples a way to forgive sin if it didn't matter because they were all already saved ?

This puts you back into a state of grace and if you die you goto heaven.

Works is not some mystical attribute you get from being saved. You must work to be saved. Keep the sacraments that Jesus gave us and obey him.

Does not say "Faith without works is dead in the eyes of man, but not before God."

I didn't say it was a quote. It was an explanation. Faith without works is dead in the eyes of man, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Pope Pius IX, First Vatican Council, Sess. 3, Chap. 2 on Revelation, 1870, ex cathedra: “Hence, also, that understanding of its sacred dogmas must be perpetually retained, which Holy Mother Church has once declared; and there must never be a recession from that meaning under the specious name of a deeper understanding.”

If you are a Catholic this is infallible magesterium.

James 2:21- “Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

OK I'll take scripture over your man made opinion

Yes, he was justified by works -- before man, but not before God.

Nope
The Bible tells us that Abraham (whose name was changed from Abram) was justified in Genesis 15:6 for believing what God said about the number of his descendants.

Genesis 15:5-6- “And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. And he [Abram] believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness.”

It should be pointed out that, in Catholic theology, the justification given in the Old Testament was inferior to the adoption as sons of God which is given in the New. Regardless, the following points about Abraham’s Old Testament justification – something which is brought up repeatedly in the New Testament – is sufficient to again thoroughly disprove the Protestant position on justification.

Abraham was justified in Genesis 15:6. If, as Protestants contend, justification is not a process, but a one-time event in which God imputes (applies) justification to a person as a result of faith alone, then Abraham could not have been justified before or after Genesis 15:6. That’s pretty simple. But the Bible teaches that Abraham was justified both before and after Genesis 15:6

1. Hebrews 11:8 teaches that Abraham believed God – and was justified – when God originally called him to go to an unknown country. This occurred in Genesis 12.

Hebrews 11:8- “By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance [Genesis 12], obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.”

Genesis 12:1-4- “Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country… unto a land that I will show thee… So Abram departed, as the Lord had spoken unto him.”

[continued so you get this]

>You must work to be saved. Keep the sacraments that Jesus gave us and obey him.

Weird, that's not what the Bible says.

>And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

Therefore, Abraham was justified by faith in Genesis 12, three chapters (and probably years) before he believed God (about how many descendants he would have) in Genesis 15:6, at which time he was justified again. Just in case anyone thinks that this belief of Abraham in Genesis 12 didn’t justify him, it should be pointed out that Hebrews 11 is all about justifying faith. Thus, there is no doubt that Hebrews 11:8 teaches that Abraham was justified by faith in Genesis 12.

2. The Bible teaches that Abraham was justified again (a third time) in Genesis 22, when he offered his son Isaac on the altar.

James 2:21-24- “Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar [Genesis 22:10]? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.”

So, to put this as simply as possible: the Bible teaches that Abraham was justified three different times:

1) in Genesis 12:1-4 (see Hebrews 11:8 – “By faith Abraham… obeyed”)

2) in Genesis 15:6 (see Genesis 15:6 – “he believed… and it counted to him for righteousness”)

3) in Genesis 22:10 (see James 2:21 – “Abraham our father justified by works”)

This proves that justification is not a once and for all time event, as the Protestants say, but rather a process. It shows that justification is a process that is CONFIRMED AND INCREASED BY CONTINUING TO BELIEVE AND BY REPEATED OBEDIENT ACTIONS. In fact, it is only in Genesis 22, after Abraham heroically offers to sacrifice his son in obedience to God’s command, that God “swears” to bless Abraham

passage please

Romans 4 is crystal clear that he's referring to the eyes of man, when he adds the last explanatory sentence, "but not before God". Isn't it funny how God left this part there so Roman Catholics and other pagans couldn't run around an teach a false gospel without unobstructed?

I don't even need to turn to Romans 4 to prove that James was referring to justification in the eyes of man, because when James gives the story of the woman begging for bread at the Christian man's door but gets told to have a good day and leave, James asks "who doth it profit?" -- namely, the woman isn't being profited by the Christian man wishing her a good day but not helping her (doing good works). Just like the world isn't being profited by the gospel when we sit on our asses.

Romans 11:6