Literally nothing wrong with Centrally Planned Economies

>Inb4 No logical counter-arguments
>Inb4 All communist countries failed
>Inb4 Only capitalism has been shown to work
>Inb4 Commies kill people
>Inb4 OP is a faggot

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gommies.gom/fug/
gommies.gom/starve/
gommies.gom/ohfugme/
gommies.gom/ohshid/
gommies.gom/1984/
gommies.gom/guck/
gommies.gom/probaganda/
gommies.gom/XDDDD/
gommies.gom/wheresfood/
gommies.gom/benis/
youtube.com/watch?v=hMtSKZ7Yw0M
youtube.com/watch?v=rHomETco0MI&t=9
youtube.com/watch?v=vN-ARytZKgQ
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_calculation_problem
youtube.com/watch?v=KxcP7TRY178&t=214
abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=123885
forward.com/news/national/325698/spy-rumors-fly-on-gusts-of-truth/
archive.org/details/DancingIsraelisFBIReport
cryptome.org/dea-il-spy.htm
informationclearinghouse.info/article17260.htm
youtube.com/watch?v=LbkQddEDPs0
youtube.com/watch?v=UoB80Yk9NYg
youtube.com/watch?v=FR7ioRALGaw
macs.hw.ac.uk/~greg/publications/ccm.IJUC07.pdf
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

OP is a faggot.

...

>OP is a faggot.
Original.
>Communism starves people
Definitely not because the soviets sucked at central planning.

Gommunism general :DDD

Hello gomrades! XDDDD Dis general is for disgussion of margsism-lebonnism, da ideology of revolutionary socialism and gommunism.

Gommunism is da next stage of guckery following real society.

Wat exagtly is gommunism according to gommies:

>Gommunism is a stage of guckery in which the produgtive infrustrugture runs away from gommie country, and no goods are produced and beeple starve. XDDDD
>Gommunism in full form is obressive, statist society dat follows maxim "gib gib gib!" :DDDD
>To achieve gommunism we must replace broduction with murderous obressive rulers liek me, fug working glass beeple. XDDDD Struggle while I liquidate you all lol. When capitalists run away we win and I kill you all. Eventually the functions of state cease and state becomes murderous and indistinguishable from other gommies. Da state withers away liek da people.
gommies.gom/fug/
gommies.gom/starve/

GL uses philosphy of gib and starve, see here:
gommies.gom/ohfugme/

It is recommend you kill yourself so you can avoid starving.

Resources:
gommies.gom/ohshid/
gommies.gom/1984/
gommies.gom/guck/
gommies.gom/probaganda/
gommies.gom/XDDDD/
gommies.gom/wheresfood/
gommies.gom/benis/

Da sdages of gommunism.

>Sdage one
Bourgers aren't allowed to vode :DDD but otherwise da system is digtadorshib of gommies. Everything is stole by digtadors and digtadors rule all.

>Sdade two
Withering
All beeple who aren't digtador glass starve. XDDD Once glass disabears and we steal everything more beeple wither away. Bolice begome unnecessary as beeple are dead lol :DDDDD Central blanning begomes unnecessary begause sgarcity caused starving. Money is all ours.

>Sdage three
Gommunism.
No beeple. No food. My money. Much benis.

>Sdage four
Nod real gommunism. Move on to nexd goundry :DDDDDDD

Communism is just international Zionism/Jewish supremacism.

When Nazis type like retards, you know you've seen everything.
>Communism is just international Zionism/Jewish supremacism.
So is capitalism. Jews controlling everything doesn't make Centrally Planned economies bad.

>BUT THAT WASNT REAL COMMUNISM SO LETS TRY AGAIN

>>BUT THAT WASNT REAL COMMUNISM SO LETS TRY AGAIN
Centrally planned economies are just as efficient as capitalistic economies in allocating resources. They trump capitalistic economies in minimizing externalities. So yeah, thanks for making my point for me.

Former commie here.

Communism is for low-T betamale fags. (Thus, the former part)

OP is faggot

>Former commie here.
Fake and faggoty.

Believe whatever you like, betaboy.

I grew up in the punk scene, listening to commie bands and reading commie literature. But I guess I just imagined being a devotee of people like Bob Avakian and Noam Chomsky.

>I grew up in the punk scene, listening to commie bands and reading commie literature.
Confirmed fake and a faggot.

>You can centrally plan economies

Yes yes congratulations communists but HOWEVER how come everytime someone applies this logic to populations you shit yourselves?

Top kek

Helicopter ride for you

You're an idiot. By definition centrally-planned economies can't be as efficient as free markets. Centralized governments can only allocate resources in broad, inefficient strokes (see welfare programs, progressive income taxes). The free market works on a macro level while allowing for local resources to be voluntarily, efficiently allocated.

>cocksucking commie calling anyone a faggot

Oh, the ironing.

>inb4 valid arguments against my retarded post
K
Sage.

youtube.com/watch?v=hMtSKZ7Yw0M

grow up and get a job kiddo

>HOWEVER how come everytime someone applies this logic to populations you shit yourselves?
Because they allow dictators to take hold. The Soviet Union was no different from a Monarchy. The power rested in the hands of a few individuals.

Centrally planned economies only espouse central planning of the economy, they don't advocate for any model of political systems or government.

The Bolsheviks corrupted this.

>The Bolsheviks
Just say the Jews

"So you try again, but your retarded system collapses"

>Because they allow dictators to take hold.

That's a feature, not a defect, beta-brainlet.

"But it wasn't real communism"

>You're an idiot.
What comes after this better be good.
>By definition centrally-planned economies can't be as efficient as free markets.
Economists determined that centrally planned economies are just as efficient as free markets before 1950. Check the great debate in economics.

Mechanism design and incentives as the successors of this debate.
>Centralized governments can only allocate resources in broad, inefficient strokes
You do realize that just because you state that governments are incapable of planning the economy doesn't make them so, right? You have to give me a logical reason, else this is just your opinion. Not a fact.

And before you sperg out and speak of how bad historically the commies have been at central planning, I'd say yes, they sucked donkey ass at central planning. Doesn't mean that central planning can only allocate resources in broad, inefficient strokes.
>The free market works on a macro level while allowing for local resources to be voluntarily, efficiently allocated.
It has been proved theoretically that if a central planner receives all the information about the levels of production and the preferences of individuals, then the central planner, with his high computational abilities, can efficiently allocate resources just as well as free markets with local decision makers.

1. Communism requires the population to starve in order to allow the government to stay in power, Lenin himself admitted this.

2. Establishing a disincentive for innovation and productivity while establishing an incentive for laziness and and carelessness is going to impoverish everyone.

3. The government is not a Charity organization and you do not have a right to other people's property, they produce the wealth themselves, aside from bankers, which are able to make so much money thanks to the government which you want to give more power to.

4. You know your ideology is trash when you need to name facts that you refuse to accept as arguments, before asking people to provide arguments against your ideology.

>grow up and get a job kiddo
>Meme flag.
Checks out.

>>The Bolsheviks
>Just say the Jews
Jews it is. But those who killed the Jews weren't Jews themselves, so I said Bolsheviks.

Well technically is hastens the devolution of our species, celebrates uglyness and is unaesthetic as fuck so I'm well with in my god given right to kill you and everyone like you

>Because they allow dictators to take hold.
>That's a feature, not a defect, beta-brainlet.
>Centrally planned economies require a dictator to function.
>Being this ignorant.
Faggot.

>"But it wasn't real communism"
Yes. It was a dictatorship. Communism doesn't espouse dictators to control the economy. Of course they'll suck ass, because they're not the smartest economists.

HOLY SHIT, I JUST REALIZED IT

Communism is basically the DINDU NUFFIN of ideologies.

>2018
>hurr durr not real communism

What is centrally planned economy?
What is planned, who plans it, and how is the plan carried out?

...

Funny thing that everywhere you reds take control it happens the same damn thing.
Remember food? That was kind of cool wasn't it?

OMG YOU'RE TOTALLY RIGHT.
REDS BE LIKE
WE DINDU NUFFIN

MARX WAS A GOOD BOY

>1. Communism requires the population to starve in order to allow the government to stay in power,
Dictatorships require the population to starve for the people in power to maintain their position. Centrally planned economies don't require people to starve to survive.
>2. Establishing a disincentive for innovation and productivity while establishing an incentive for laziness and and carelessness
I never said the Soviets were good at planning their economy. They sucked ass.
>3. The government is not a Charity organization and you do not have a right to other people's property,
Are you referring to means of production when you say property? Because people had places to stay, they didn't own the machinery and factories where the goods and services were produced. Which, by the way, is no different in a capitalist economy. Not everyone in the economy owns a factory.
>4. You know your ideology is trash when you need to name facts that you refuse to accept as arguments
I know your arguments are trash when you confuse dictatorships with centrally planned economies and capitalistic markets with free markets.

>>hurr durr not real communism
Hurr durr, dictatorships are the same as communism. Hurr durr.

...

>"Gee whiz, I just can't seem to figure out why a dictator seizes power literally EVERY time we try this!"

>What is centrally planned economy?
A central planning committee determines the optimal distribution based on the amount of goods and services produced, and the preferences of individuals across the economy. In addition, the planning committee also makes predictions on what would be required by the population, once again on individual preferences, and determines the levels of production for each individual in the economy.
>who plans it, and how is the plan carried out?
The planning can either be done by individuals, or computers, and the plans are carried out by the individuals in the economy.

>Funny thing that everywhere you reds take control it happens the same damn thing.
Are you saying in capitalistic markets people are free? Is it not true that in every capitalist nation the corporatists control the government? What's your argument here?
>Remember food? That was kind of cool wasn't it?
Hey, I never said the Soviets were good planners. They sucked ass at planning.

>"Gee whiz, I just can't seem to figure out why a dictator seizes power literally EVERY time we try this!"
Gee whiz, I can't figure out why dictators con the masses into believing they'll be taken care of so that the dictators can rise to power, and then fuck over the people who helped them rise to power.
>Gee whiz, I'm more retarded than Morty.

Freer than gulag cattle.
The argument is it is better to be a wagecuck with a determinate degree of civil liberties than to fall for the oldest trick on the book from those who promise a paradise on earth and always deliver hell.
Even though the Hochfinanz is a thing, it doesn't mean people don't get in and out of the 1%.
Capitalistm, being a flawed system, still delivered more than any commie shithole.[spoiler][/spoiler]

5th plank to the communist manifesto

Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.

The Federal Reserve System, created by the Federal Reserve Act of Congress in 1913, is indeed such a "national bank" and it politically manipulates interest rates and holds a monopoly on legal counterfeiting in the United States.

This is exactly what Marx had in mind and completely fulfills this plank, another major socialist objective.

Yet, most Americans naively believe the U.S. of A. is far from a Marxist or socialist nation.

>soy-swilling commie brainlet
>Rick and Morty reference

Checks out.

The get of slaughtering the weak, weak aside!

...

>Freer than gulag cattle.
I think what you're suggesting is that you want to be lied to and subjugated and not be under oppression while being told the truth. Freer than a gulag cattle? What exactly are you free to do? All societies and economic systems have rules. No one is really free. If you're one of those morons who'll now say that you're free to go to the beach, then remember that Russians didn't have fucking Brazilian beaches to go to.
>The argument is it is better to be a wagecuck with a determinate degree of civil liberties than to fall for the oldest trick on the book from those who promise a paradise on earth and always deliver hell.
Yeah, even I thought you want to be in an illusion.

I have no argument because what you're stating is a preference. Not a counter argument. You prefer to be lied to and told everything is fine in your world rather than be told the truth. I get it, nothing wrong in that.
>Capitalistm, being a flawed system, still delivered more than any commie shithole.
>From a Brazilian where the President is now jailed.
Ironic.

>hated fags
>hated niggers
>died a coward
>worshiped by soyflakes the world over

Commies are so fucking dumb it hurts.

If you say you love centrally planned economies so much, get your ass out of the America the capitalist hellhole and move to glorious Venezuela, Cuba, DPRK, or Vietnam, Comrade! Unite with your fellow workers!

>soy-swilling commie brainlet
>Rick and Morty reference
>Uses Gee Whiz first
>Accuses OP of using Rick and Morty reference.
Good job user.

Back in the Soviet Union, superior communist cheese slice lasted for months for a family of four.
Now it only lasts one day for a single fuck.
Damn capitalist fucks! Cant do anything right.

>youtube.com/watch?v=rHomETco0MI&t=9

>If you say you love centrally planned economies so much, get your ass out of the America the capitalist hellhole and move to glorious Venezuela, Cuba, DPRK, or Vietnam,
None of those countries do central planning well you dipshit.
>Comrade! Unite with your fellow workers!
Sure, where do we meet?

You will understand that it is bullshit as soon as you can not even buy toilet paper.

>unironically thinks "gee whiz" originated in his poorly-written, poorly-drawn children's cartoon

>I think what you're suggesting is that you want to be lied to and subjugated and not be under oppression while being told the truth.

Using these terms very loosely.

> Freer than a gulag cattle? What exactly are you free to do?
I'm free to not be a gulag slave because my neighbor told on me to the secret police, for instance.

> All societies and economic systems have rules.

Yes. And planned economy rules usually lead to failure.

>If you're one of those morons who'll now say that you're free to go to the beach (...)

My wife is playing with the kid right by my side at this very moment. Rather have them playing in my living room than inside a concentration camp because some comissar thought I didn't clap enough in satisfaction to his speech.

> Yeah, even I thought you want to be in an illusion.

Yeah, the promise of paradise on earth and "muh equality" is not illusion at all.

>>Capitalistm, being a flawed system, still delivered more than any commie shithole.
>From a Brazilian where the President is now jailed.

Lula has not being arrested, yet.
And you know he is a red, right? A red that led the country into economical crisis, besides robbing public goods - him and his ilk.
Just goes off to show what kind of people you really are.
Get off my board.

But central planning still has so much more potential than dirty corporationist system! How can we trust a whole lot of greedy individuals and companies to share wealth when we can just give all the economic power to a few great men? Sure, Kim Jong Un might not be great at redistributing wealth, but some day the Kim family will have a smart kid and DPRK will become the superpower we all know it can be!

Back in the day, during the Soviet Union, workers performed their functions with 100% profit. No expenses required.
Now money is lost in salaries.

Fucking bourgeoisie scum! Dont know shit about economics!

>youtube.com/watch?v=vN-ARytZKgQ

Communisim is devoloution, what we need is to establish a monarchy and kill all the niggers and heathens, weak people like you I hope die before we are compelled to feed you though I think soibois will be sterilized anyway

>You will understand that it is bullshit as soon as you can not even buy toilet paper.
So if the soviets sucked at central planning and couldn't ensure their citizens had toilet paper, every other country that implements it will also suck, right?

>>unironically thinks "gee whiz" originated in his poorly-written, poorly-drawn children's cartoon
>Rick and Morty is a poorly-drawn children's cartoon.
Kek.
Also, my mistake and where did Gee Whiz originate from?

Which Mises proved was impossible in 1920

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_calculation_problem

Means of production is Capital, that is the PROPERTY of the business owner, seriously kill yourself if you don't even know what property means

That's pretty ambitious.
I don't see how that is even feasible as there are many factors to consider.
For example, gathering inputs from all individuals and balancing out needs and wants of the individuals either based on merit or currency, and finally the logistic of delivery the goods or service on daily basis. There are too many variables.
Is there an efficient solution to the Traveling Salesman problem?

It's probably more efficient for people to figure it out themselves.

>Literally nothing wrong with Centrally Planned Economies
Other than the fact that they can't account for demand in a meaningful and/or dynamic way like an market economy can. But you're a commie mutt and you've never had to see it for yourself.

then speaking about it is a moot point until all the jews are dead

>> Freer than a gulag cattle? What exactly are you free to do?
>I'm free to not be a gulag slave because my neighbor told on me to the secret police, for instance.
Once again, like many others, you're confusing dictatorships with centrally planned economies. Secret police is a hallmark of dictatorships and monarchies, not a requirement for centrally planned economies.

If it makes you comfortable, think of democratic ally elected central planners.
>Yes. And planned economy rules usually lead to failure.
They don't have to if the planners are good.
>My wife is playing with the kid right by my side at this very moment.
Ok, I see that you're pretty emotional about dictatorships. I don't support them either.
>Yeah, the promise of paradise on earth and "muh equality" is not illusion at all.
People who want power will lie to get to power. What's new about that? Are you saying that you don't get lied to on a daily basis from capitalist commercials? Just that the lies are small and they're bearable, and this makes them better?
>Lula has not being arrested, yet.
But he will be. Either way, my point was Brazil is corrupt even though you have a capitalistic economy.
>And you know he is a red, right?
And that's why you hate communism so much? Makes perfect sense. Look, I'm just arguing for centrally planned economies. I don't espouse a political philosophy to go along with it. I'm fine if its democratically implemented.

>Economists determined that centrally planned economies are just as efficient as free markets before 1950. Check the great debate in economics.

Dude, you realize that a debate doesn't equal proof right? Hypothetically, a hardcore communist could get a Ph.D in economics and retain his communist beliefs. Just because SOME economists may have claimed this doesn't make this "the great debate". What is clear is the vast majority of economists agree that free markets are more efficient than centrally-planned markets (whether they are equitable is up for discussion).

>You do realize that just because you state that governments are incapable of planning the economy doesn't make them so, right?

This fact is obvious to everyone but you blue-pilled commies. I gave examples of the "broad strokes" and I'll give more: social security, medicare, welfare programs, affirmative action. Give me an example of the government achieving the most efficient outcome through central planning.

> But muh Communism works theoretically

That's right, you can't actually prove your beliefs in the real world. All you can do is claim they theoretically work. Yes, if God controlled the economy he could allocate resources most efficiently. Other than that, there is no way for a central planner to receive all the information. A central planner also needs to process and act on that information in a correct way, which is impossible. You would need a supercomputer with the abilities of God. Once you get that, come back to Sup Forums with that real-world solution.

In the meantime, keep on dreaming of Utopia.

It's a colloquialism that's existed since at least the 1950's.

And considering the beliefs and behaviors of the fanbase, I don't see how anyone could unironically argue that it isn't a kids' show. It's like a religion for perpetual manchildren.

Back in the day, during the Soviet Union, superior communist rifle was good enough for two men!
Now they need to issue a weapon for each one of them.

Fucking capitalism! Cant manage things accordingly!

>youtube.com/watch?v=KxcP7TRY178&t=214

>Which Mises proved was impossible in 1920
Which was then proved to be true by Hayek and others later on. Stop fucking citing Wikipedia for the great debate you piece of shit. Go read Leonard Hurwizs' lectures on mechanism design for more details.

>Means of production is Capital
That's what I meant as well you fucktard.

I hate cominists but chinas planned production is pretty amazing. Why not fuse capitalism with centralized planned economy?

>For example, gathering inputs from all individuals and balancing out needs and wants of the individuals either based on merit or currency, and finally the logistic of delivery the goods or service on daily basis. There are too many variables.
And yet all internet based companies do that efficiently.
>Is there an efficient solution to the Traveling Salesman problem?
>Is there an efficient solution to an NP Hard problem
>Not understanding the difference between the solution algorithm and the solution itself
Kys
>It's probably more efficient for people to figure it out themselves.
I've never said that centrally planned economies are "better" than free markets. Indeed, economists debated on the pros and cons of each and they determined that both systems are equally good theoretically. The only difference is that in free markets individuals make decisions, whereas in a centrally planned economy, a central planner will make the decisions. Hence the central planner will require a large computational capacity to solve the resource allocation problem as efficiently as a free market.

We didn't have that level of computational power before, and now we do.

Paid shills are not allowed to post in threads with Israel-9/11 links.

This Pasta kills the shill.

Post this PASTA in any thread you suspect of being subverted.

--------------------------------------------------

ABC News - Israelis Detained on 9/11 Spies
>abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=123885

Spy Rumors Fly on Gusts of Truth - Marc Perelman - Forward
>forward.com/news/national/325698/spy-rumors-fly-on-gusts-of-truth/

FBI report - Israelis caught celebrating after first tower was struck
>archive.org/details/DancingIsraelisFBIReport

DEA report on Israeli "art student" spies who visited sensitive DEA and DoD locations directly prior to 9/11
>cryptome.org/dea-il-spy.htm

What Did Israel Know in Advance of the 9/11 Attacks? [good summary]
>informationclearinghouse.info/article17260.htm

FOX News - The Israeli 9/11 Connection ep.1
>youtube.com/watch?v=LbkQddEDPs0

Ryan Dawson - War By Deception [contains info on how ((neocons)) used 9/11 to get us into Iraq]
>youtube.com/watch?v=UoB80Yk9NYg

Israel Mossad Chief - Juval Aviv, (mossad agent on whom the movie 'Munich' is based)
>youtube.com/watch?v=FR7ioRALGaw
tries to cover for Israel but ends up admitting a lot

2.40 'there is no doubt that there were various Israeli teams in America... who were MONITORING terrorist networks...

3.08 'Israel had [the 9/11] information that they were giving the American government..'

continues to blame the CIA for storing bombs in the towers

Look at new york all the roads are build in a grid pattern. Centralized planning right? Why not let an AI decide??

>Other than the fact that they can't account for demand in a meaningful and/or dynamic way like an market economy can
Did you just pull this out of your ass? Of course they can. People communicate their preferences to the central planner.
>But you're a commie mutt and you've never had to see it for yourself.
Hey Bogdan, it's pretty early in the conversation. No need to get butthurt so quickly.

>And considering the beliefs and behaviors of the fanbase,
Rick and Morty is cancer.

>Paid shills are not allowed to post in threads with Israel-9/11 links.
I don't get paid to shill. It would be nice though. All the shills on this board suck, and I can do a much better job than most shills.

If you ever played a building/economy strategy game like simcity or Anno or patrician you know that an AI can kick your ass.

Why not AI based economy?

Fuck communism and capitalism.
Hello AI-ism.

I see.
To put it simply everyone should order everything on Amazon.com

In 1988 in the former Czechoslovakia people have been in line for toilet paper before the shops.

Communisim is devoloution, what we need is to establish a monarchy and kill all the niggers and heathens, weak people like you I hope die before we are compelled to feed you though I think soibois will be sterilized

>To put it simply everyone should order everything on Amazon.com
Don't they already do that?

That, we can agree on.

...

>In 1988 in the former Czechoslovakia people have been in line for toilet paper before the shops.
Yes, we know that Slovaks are not smart enough to implement a centrally planned economy. What's your point?

You are all idiots. Dont you see that an Artificial intelligence will govern our economy and shape the decisions of cours and politics?

Its the future. The future cant be stopped. Its a done deal.

Not really, AI is a stupid idea for people who don't like to think much

>AI is a stupid idea for people who don't like to think much
Fancy that coming from the country that elected Castro's son.

Don't you realize this is already the current state of affair? HFT is shaping companies and entire economies.

That Marxism is simple to imply in the country, but it is even more difficult to get out of those shit.

One size fits all is a disaster because people are different, with different wants, needs and desires. There is no upward mobility economically for lower class in a 2 class system. Everyone is equally poor with a handful at the top. Its inhumane.

>People communicate their preferences to the central planner.
How exactly does the entirety of a +100 million country communicate its preferences? How do you satisfy the infinite wants of the human mind with finite resources?
Also, what drives innovation in the manufacturing methods? This was also a major problem in the eastern block.

HFT does not alter the production one bit. Buying 1000000 apple stocks per day does not result in increase of iphone production

macs.hw.ac.uk/~greg/publications/ccm.IJUC07.pdf

Cockshott proved Mises is full of shit