Why is Fate:Zero so good compared to the rest of the series. Or rather...

Why is Fate:Zero so good compared to the rest of the series. Or rather... How did Fate:Zero end being so good despite the rest of the Fate series being so fucking terrible?

Because it appeals specifically to the shit taste of secondaries like yourself.

Because it's a mature anime for mature people with good taste like redditors such as you and I.

You just like Urobutrash directing. The series has always been bottom of the barrel.

Adult (married) MC instead of generic high school harem drama. Primaryfags will get angry reading this truth.

Because it is exactly what its audience is. A bunch of manchildren pretending to be mature. Unlike the LN which makes it abundantly clear characters like Kerry are mentally unchanged from their childhood, the anime actually attempts & fails at some maturity.

Because it was a mature medium made exclusively for grown ups unlike the childish pornographic visual "novel" that centered primarily around the lives and relationships of melodramatic magical japanese highschoolers

Because it is for those who do not understand the VN industry & those who don't understand that many VNs are forced to put pornographic content in the first few installments to even enter the industry & that they frequently do versions without the sex after.

Only secondaries believe this. Even UBW was better and that's saying something.

>Even UBW was better
In what way? Zero seems to just be objectively more entertaining in pretty much every way

UBW's pacing and characters were garbage. Zero is objectively better on those aspects.

Reminder

Those are probably the most immature posts I've read today.

I never stated it to be a masterpiece. It certainly goes out of it's way to be edgy as fuck sometimes.

But It still managed to be a lot more enjoyable than anything else I watched from this series....

You know the show can be mature while portraying immature characters, right?

Not a secondary, I just liked both Zero and Stay Night.

Agreed. Zero's immaturity leaks into anything which mentions it.

If they could understand that, they wouldn't be posting it. They confuse competence with maturity. By that logic, Mahouka is probably the most mature anime since the perfection that is Onii-sama exists.

Unfortunately, Zero doesn't manage that. Kiritsugu's objective of obtain magic wishing device & everything will be fine is far closer to a fantasy world. The LN mentions this.

"It is a childish ideal that all young boys grow attached to at least once, one that they abandon once they grow accustomed to the mercilessness of reality.
Any happiness requires a sacrifice, something all children learn when they become adults.
But, that man was different.
Maybe he was just the most foolish of all. Maybe he was broken somewhere. Or maybe, he might have been of the kind we call ‘Saints’, entrusted with God’s will. One that common people cannot understand."

Rather than portray all the characters as outwardly mature & internally immature as the LN, they try & do pretend maturity.

>filthy secondary who enjoyed Zero, UBW and the DEENime
Too bad Apocrypha still sucks.

Sieg is still shit, Jeanne loves the dragon dick, etc.Strange/Fake was better.

Is there even such thing as a good Fate adaptation then?

Because it has many interesting ideas, and it executes them adequately.

If there are people who are willing to join a DEATH GAME where you kill 6 other people to get a omnipotent wish granting device, then those people are not right in their heads. To actually join that game and think you can win, you need to have a certain level of arrogance, pride, pretentiousness and retardness. And all characters in Zero have that. They're all fucked up faggots and/or pretentious arrogant bastards. But that alone is not interesting enough. What made Zero interesting is how it handled those people. People so fucked in many different ways, yet think they're above everyone else. And while they do, the show itself doesn't even pretend they are. That is why almost all of them die and/or have their ideals crushed. It shows them just how retarded they were being, and it does it adequately.

In process of doing that, Zero makes those character interesting in their own rights. They all have different ideals and world views, and Zero explores all those ideas adequately. From yuetsu to suffering, how can one be derived from the other, implications of saving lives to killing people, taking those things too far, tyranny against chivalry, clinging onto unreachable ideals, delusional murderers and their morality, slow decent into madness and embracing the madness they were born with. It had many such ideas which it explores while it develops and takes cares of its characters fairly.

And finally, while the characters were full of flaws, they weren't bad. Some were fun to simply watch for their, like Rider and Gil, others were interesting to watch because how they handled their fucked-upness, like Kiritsugu and Kirei. Overall, it all blended well together to give a nice experience.

All of that said, Zero LN > F/SN VN > Extra CCC/Zero anime. So no, it's not even close to being the best the franchise has to offer.

Kara no Kyoukai is better

Urobuchi writing I guess.
Nasu can write provocative characters and situations, but needs someone with some *modicum* of talent to tie it together.
Honestly it says a lot about a franchise when the best instalment is done by a hired writer. Maybe if Nasu didn't base his historical perspective around what figures would be best to masturbate to he would be more successful.
He stumbled upon a great premise and complicated it into a franchise, which made him money, but didn't earn him respect. What a shame.

Despite the memes, Urobuchi is actually a good writer. Also, it's not focused on waifupandering like some other entries in the franchise

Because the source material was written by an actual writer and not a bunch of retards like all other fate shit

It's not any better than the rest. The only reason people notice it more is because it was the first in the franchise to not get a visually poor quality adaptation.

The characters were not that interesting, and the setup was painfully boring as fuck. Everyone kept tabs on each other and anyone who tried to be an ass got fucked, except maybe Gilgamesh. If Fate/Zero wasn't a prequel then Kiritsugu would have just been another fool, and the real main character would have been Waver.

Strange Fake is better.

Because of the anime.
You wouldn't say that if you only read the LN

>high school harem drama
I can never take SN seriously because of this

Life must be so hard for you. You have my genuine sympathy. With the greatest possible respect, please remember that professional psychological help can sometimes be a great benefit to one's wellbeing.

Have a pity (you).

Then it's your opinion, don't go mistaking it for a solid fact, user.

Kiritsugu was just another fool in Zero. By the end his ideals are supposed to come off as half baked and childish

the dose you swallowed is 10 times more potent than marijuana

>but didn't earn him respect. What a shame.

Oh shit Nasu didn't earn the respect of le random anonymous-kun posting in a mongolian image board. How will he ever recover?

>It's not focused on waifupandering
>Focused on fujopandering instead

If your story and setting are already butchered like it is in stay night it only makes sense to hire a professional Butcher to sort it out.

Kiritsugu was a man child and arguably more retarded than Shirou, anyone who disagrees missed the entire point of zero

More like Strange/Retcon.

because it wasn't written by nasu

SF manga updates when?

>patent denial

>I'm a charactershitter
How to spot a redditor.

>Too bad Apocrypha still sucks.
What did you expect from the series that reunites Naruto and Kirito on the same story?

>Kiritsugu was just another fool in Zero
Ah, I meant that more people would actually view him as a fool if the story didn't give him a disproportionate amount of screen time.

Poor user. Are you feeling bad because Nasu's rich as fuck and recognized as an idol for other upcoming doujin soft authors and you're not?

When will this cunt go back to writing VNs? I need more Saya no Uta and Kikokugai.

>arguably more retarded than Shirou
Impossible. Shirou is the most retarded character in Fate.

>implying zero didn't make it abundantly clear Kerry was a retard and a manchild, albeit a tragic one
Just because there are metric tons of Kerryfags doesn't mean the show did a bad job of portraying him.

But Fate:Zero is also trash

> "Shirou is Retarded xDDD"

Shirou realises in 2 out 3 routes that his ideal is unattainable and settles for more pragmatic solutions.
Kiritsugu didn't stop until everything went to shit around himself.

>If there are people who are willing to join a DEATH GAME where you kill 6 other people to get a omnipotent wish granting device, then those people are not right in their heads
Everyone has to die at some point. Besides its not really a death game, you just need to kill the 6 other people's Servants. If they get in the way and end up getting killed than it was their own damn fault.

If I could get an omnipotent wish machine, I don't mind killing 6 people who I do not know or give a fuck about. If you want some bs justification for avarice, they would kill me as well to get the wish machine, so all is fair.

>His ideal is unattainable
>Its the same ideal as Kiri.
>Assassin Kiri achieved his ideal by not meeting Iri and then anally raped Manjew to death.
What?

Ah, the ''fate zero is better and more mature because kerry wears a trenchcoat and uses a gun and people cry hard before they die'' meme

Oh look it's this thread again.

>using emoticons ever.
Kill yourself.
>Kiritsugu has 1 route
>Shirou has 3 routes
Yeah not exactly comparable is it now? And Shirou only abandons his ideals in HF, so its 2 out of 3 routes.

>Its the same ideal as Kiri.

Kerry's ideal is the "ceasing of human conflict", Shirou wants to become a superhero who can save everyone

>Assassin Kiri achieved his ideal by not meeting Iri and then anally raped Manjew to death.

I don't know if it's a retcon, but how does killing the fake Persian Anti-Christ, achieves Kiritsugu's ideal?

> Yeah not exactly comparable is it now?

even Shirou at his most autistic (Archer during his life), didn't fuck up as badly as Kerry.
Kiritsugu ruined the life of everyone he loved, and had shit to show for it in exchange.

I felt Fate/Zero to be incredibly underwhelming compared to FSN. Though that could be because it didn't have several routes to fully explore the cast.

Assassin Kiri is the same as EMIYA and just look at his fucking face.
>Implying the ideals are always a bad thing
In one of the routes where he didn't gave up on it he's currently fucking King Arthur's right pussy in a pseudo heaven.

*tight

...

>Kiritsugu became the same kind of fake Heroic Spirit as EMIYA
NANI

I DIDNT KNOW ABOUT THIS

I honestly don't see the problem of a grown adult still having an idealistic dream.

I mean, Trump is in office. If HE can become president, you can do whatever your heart desires.

...

>harem
Whatever you like thinking dude.

theres nothing wrong with that

>objectively entertaining

>Waifupandering a shit!
>But Fujopandering is good!
Take your (you) and leave fujo.

Because it didn't happen. The Kiritsugu we know and hate is dead, nothing more. That Heroic Spirit Kiritsugu is from another timeline, where he never met Iri and continued living as an assassin. He was never given a chance to try his hand at a miracle to save the world, so he continued doing so like EMIYA did.

You're an idiot who didn't understand Zero then. How do people read Zero and think that Kiritsugu's ideology was even remotely correct? He's not supposed to be some mature character, he's a man clinging to a childish way of thinking that completely disregards any sort of long term consequences and ignores reality just as much as the Heroes he scoffs at. Kiritsugu is a massive hypocrite, that's the point of his character.

What was Kiritsugu's ideology anyway? The whole sacrificing the few to save many thing?

His ideal was that all lives are of equal value and there is no way to save everyone short of a miracle (the grail). Therefore, the only right thing to do is save as many as possible, to sacrifice the few in the name of the many. The issue is that the many will always be in more danger, no matter how much you sacrifice. Also his way of valuing human life was incredibly oversimplistic.

Because of this.

Yup, that's why the Grail mindfucked him and tried to grant his wish by presenting him with the "how will you save these two sinking ships" scenario and then more and more bloody and personal scenarios, until he realizes that if his wish were to be granted, the corrupted Grail would simply interpret it as "humans can't be happy, so I'm gonna kill everyone but you and your family since you wanted peace"

It's why his rejection of the grail and decision to destroy it is so impactful, because up til that point he's always lived by sacrificing the few for the greater good.

UBW > HF > Urine >>>> Shit > Zero >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DST

Most of the cast was just disposable fodder. There's not much that can be written that truly expands upon any of them.

Waver and maybe the Archibalds are the only ones I can see benefiting from this.

>How do people read Zero and think that Kiritsugu's ideology was even remotely correct?
Since when were you under the impression that I said Kiritusgu's ideals were correct? All I said was Shirou was more retarded. My opinion on Kiritsugu's ideals is the same as Kirei's.

Yeah I like Kiritsugu's character but most zerofags don't seem to understand that he is the height of immaturity. Not that that's an issue, characters can be immature and still be good. But saying that he is more mature than Shirou is just blatantly wrong.

>was more retarded.
People who call Shirou retarded have no right to judge what's intelligent or well written.
If you can't even wrap your head around him as a character, you're the one who's retarded.

That doesn't really sound retarded. That's the simplest, most logical way of looking at it. The only alternatives that are either kill everyone, don't save anyone or save the few. All of which are worse.

How is Shirou more retarded than someone who is willing to sacrifice everyone he loves for some supposed miracle that might not even be real? Since caster was summoned most everyone knew something was wrong with the grail, yet ignoring all the signs he still marched on forward, sacrificing everything he could.

Ufotable did a great job with Fate/Zero following it up with the UBW route. The way they animated UBW made it link very well to Zero and they provided many parallels and connections that really tied them together. You can't watch Fate/Zero and not watch their UBW adaptation right after anymore, they work too well together.
Shirou is shown as a successful version of Kiritsugu, the realization of his dream, and gives Zero the closure it needs.

Just watching Zero alone is a poor choice.

>someone who is willing to sacrifice everyone he loves for some supposed miracle that might not even be real?
He didn't do that though. He didn't sacrifice anyone for the Grail.

Do you really think anyone puts equal value on everyone's lives? That someone, if they had to choose, would rather save 50 random strangers they never knew over, say, their family?

Except no human can possiblely correctly judge the weight of another life or accurately predict the reprocussions of taking a life. Also instead of trying to think of lasting solutions to problems, kiritsugu just defaults to killing. How can anyone say that this method prevents the least people from dying when you simply give up on saving everyone?

His wife was the Grail for one.

>who is Iri?
>who is Maiya?
>who is Illya?

VN writters stop giving a fuck when they make it big user, the same way that Nasu will never ever write anything again, Urobuchi simple won't bother, he will just keep working on tv shows, its much more money for less work

I don't like either protag, but Fate/Zero gives us a lot of time with other characters to get a good sense of their motivations and struggle. I liked just about everything with Waver and Iskander since they had great chemistry.

DST's OST and cute Seiba puts it above Zero for me

Waver and Iskander are the only good characters in Zero

>loud manchild who talks shit about best king
>good

Stay Night does the same thing. It's just that the time is allocated differently depending on the route.

DUDE 11!!1!

the word immature seems weird now
immature

did you forget the part where grail war is a facade to mask the twisted ritual of sacrificing 7 heroes so hard they literally stop existing forever
oh and there's angry manjew hiding in it, you'd think Einzbern patriarch would have mentioned something to Kerry

DUDE

>>omnipotent wish granting device
>>isn't actually omnipotent

Lame. In the fate zero anime itself there is use of a binding magical contract to prevent someone from harming another, why can't the grail place a geas on all of humanity that does the same thing?

There's a girl in apocryphal who wants the grail to heal her legs. Why not wish to be immortal god empress of the multiverse who guarantees peace and happiness for her and all of her lover ones until the stars burn out of the sky?

The fact that an """"""omnipotent"""""" object has been used multiple times without changing the status quo is dumb

>>I wish for a way to avert the hest death of the universe
>>I wish for widespread interstellar travel so humanity need not be bound to one planet
>>I wish for everyone in the world to worship me as a god
>>I wish for the end of reality
>>I wish I was a god