Why is it that most commies don't actually know shit about communism?

>Communist wants to talk to me about communism and try to convince me it isn't a scam.
>They aren't even aware of/don't understand perfunctory tier communist thinkers.
>Brainlets don't even understand the product they're shilling or the actual philosophy behind it.

Over my college career and since, I must have been in hundreds of drunk debates with communists. On average, I'd describe their ideology as a schizophrenic patchwork of ideas, often contradictory ideas, that broadly fall under the category of marxism. Most of them got critical theory shoved down their throat in their humanities courses, skimmed Das Kapital or The Communist Manifesto, and fancy themselves as dissident intellectuals.

What is it about communism that causes this? Why does it attract mostly retards?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=glzXtLvloVo
youtube.com/watch?v=fAKyi3SYC_I
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

Communist revolution relies on useful idiots.

/thread

if they understood communism, they wouldn't be communists

>skimmed Das Kapital or The Communist Manifesto, and fancy themselves as dissident intellectuals.
Marx's books are not economically or logically thorough, so I don't think you know much about communism either. If you're so glib about your understanding of communism, then summarize it's economic and political philosophy for me without running to Marx, Trotsky, Lenin, or Stalin for help. What is communism in your opinion?

>What is it about communism that causes this? Why does it attract mostly retards?
Hey, look at capitalism. It attracts retards like you. Should I judge capitalism poorly because retards like you are attracted to it?

>if they understood communism, they wouldn't be communists
>if they understood communism, they wouldn't call Lenin, Marx, Trotsky and Stalin as communists
FTFY

Wouldn't it, like, be great if everyone like had all this free stuff and we all shared it or whatever?

Free shit for everyone would be so, like, revolutionary or whatever. My parents don't get me, I'm a free thinker.

>Wouldn't it, like, be great if everyone like had all this free stuff and we all shared it or whatever?
Communism never advocates for giving people free shit. No wonder most of you anti-commie faggots on Sup Forums sound like retards.

I'm not sure it's necessarily that supporters of communism don't understand their own political beliefs more than anyone else. The average person does not really critically examine their beliefs. People that support communism without understanding its foundation and history do so because it sounds nice at first glace. "Everyone gets everything they need and rich people can't take it away from them" sounds like a utopia to anyone that isn't rich. They don't quite grasp that it's not something achievable and that even the act of pursuing it leads to atrocities against mankind.

No, but it is why a bevy of misinformed college age pseudo-moralizers advocate FOR communism.

Ah, here comes the retard. Right on schedule.

>Marx's books are not economically or logically thorough, so I don't think you know much about communism either.
That's because like most communists, your reading comprehension is shit tier. I didn't assert Marx's writings were economically or logically thorough. My point was the majority of campus communists treat them as such.

>If you're so glib about your understanding of communism, then summarize it's economic and political philosophy for me without running to Marx, Trotsky, Lenin, or Stalin for help. What is communism in your opinion?

>summarize it's
The retard, again, reveals itself. Here's a hint -- as with most ideologies, there really isn't a single set of beliefs that constitute a unified view of communism. While there are common threads, there are a variety of flavors of communism and no shortage of autistically verbose infighting between them.

>"Everyone gets everything they need and rich people can't take it away from them"
Everyone does get everything they need, but everyone must also work for it. That's the part that most faggots on Sup Forums exclude and sperg out on communism.
>They don't quite grasp that it's not something achievable
Communism in simple economic terms requires one to work towards maximizing group rewards rather than individual rewards. By working towards maximizing group rewards, the individual rewards of all members in a group are higher than if they sought to maximize their individual rewards. This was proved by Bengt Holmstrom in 1982 ("Moral Hazard in Teams").
>and that even the act of pursuing it leads to atrocities against mankind.
Capitalism is holier than thou? I thought we were waging wars in ME just to get their oil. I'm sorry, I never realized that you who just said people don't critically examine their beliefs believes that capitalism does not lead to atrocities. You're no better than the other sheep you judge.

>No, but it is why a bevy of misinformed college age pseudo-moralizers advocate FOR communism.
Oh. Yeah, that is true. Those pseudo-commies are indeed the biggest fags around.

large unaccountable governments lead to the middle east crisis, not capitalism. same reason why communism was so hostile and occupied foreign countries.

Capitalism is an “unfair” system that values someone who has the intelligence, risk taking, willpower, and luck to succeed or lay the groundworks for their kids to succeed.

Communism is very “fair” in that everyone gets a piece of the pie. Community should pull together and take care of every individual. So that guy who is always working real hard and putting his all into something can’t lord it over the lazy sack of shit you are. Both of you get at least the minimum amount of support. Nevermind the eventual outcome that someone who is good at something that especially in need by the community will naturally get preferred treatment or return and we’re fucking back at the very thing commies hate so much.

>real communism hasn't been tried
Every fucking time

>Ah, here comes the retard. Right on schedule.
No need to project. We're not even 10 posts into the thread user.
>My point was the majority of campus communists treat them as such.
Why call the campus wannabes communists when you know Marx's teachings are not true communism? Strawman much?
>summarize it's
>Oooooooh snap. I got user on a typo. This must buuuuuuurn and it'll show everyone how mature I am and how my ideas are superior. It's time to get the aloe vera out.
Kys high school faggot.
>Here's a hint -- as with most ideologies, there really isn't a single set of beliefs that constitute a unified view of communism.
Since you're obviously some high school fag or freshman fag, communism has well defined economic and political interpretations with the field of economics.
Economically, communism requires the control of the means of production to be overseen by the entire community - or all members of an economy - rather than individuals for private profit. The goal of this is to ensure everyone works towards maximizing the group rewards rather than individual rewards. Mathematically, it has been shown that maximizing group rewards leads to higher individual rewards for all members in a group than when they seek to maximize only their individual rewards. Hence, economically and mathematically, it has been shown that centrally planned economies are just as good if not better than capitalistic economies.

Politically, communism is an extreme form of socialism which advocates for a classless society - no discrimination based on race, gender, color, or creed.

>While there are common threads, there are a variety of flavors of communism and no shortage of autistically verbose infighting between them.
Fuck yourself newfag. Get off my board and take your pretentious asshole from where all your ideas come to /r9k/. Fucking half wit.

How can it argue for a classless society when all it does is agitate class warfare?

You seem reasonable enough.

My biggest problem with communism by far is that it seems impossible to actually implement without becoming authoritarian. You end up with a new upper class of the old revolutionary intelligentsia, only now without any institutional checks and balances on the burgeoning upper class power, and more often than not it becomes illegal to even acknowledge the existence of the newly created unbound elite.

The transition to distributed rule away from party rule seems like it would require the entire military and party leadership to be unrealistically benevolent and self sacrificing, which is why things inevitably get stuck at your run of the mill 'not real communists'. All that seems to be achieved in all practical applications of Marxist theory to nations so far is making an entirely new upper class, and unbinding them from traditional checks on power. Fair assessment?

>large unaccountable governments lead to the middle east crisis, not capitalism.
So our capitalist economy had no role in corporatists buying political power by buying candidates? If you had a large accountable government, or for that matter even a small accountable government, the corporatists would never take over the government and the U.S. would never wage wars anywhere?
So I'm guessing wiping out the Indians, Barbary wars, Opium wars, American Civil War, Spanish American War, Central American wars would have never happened?
I don't know what you did in school, but why don't you go read up on the number of wars the U.S has participated in before we had a large unaccountable government and then assert that capitalism doesn't lead to wars?

It's all the Jew bankers you faggot.

Capitalism is fine, I’m happy in my country and I couldn’t give a fuck about poor people if I tried.

>Capitalism is an “unfair” system that values someone who has the intelligence, risk taking, willpower, and luck to succeed or lay the groundworks for their kids to succeed.
What's so fair about a system where 1 billion of the world's population feeds the entire 7.2 billion and is still on an average the poorest section of society?
You're smug about intelligence and risk taking only because some faggot forces farmers to sell their goods at low prices so that you can shit post on Sup Forums about how capitalism rewards faggots with intelligence and risk taking.

You fucking faggot, risk taking inherently implies that there's a huge amount of luck involved. Do you know what fucking luck is? Things that you didn't account for going your way.

Capitalism is not some system which rewards intelligence. Capitalism is a fairly arbitrary system which has a higher probability of rewarding faggots who don't think twice about conning people than people who work hard and are principled.
>Communism is very “fair” in that everyone gets a piece of the pie
Yes. Lenin, Trotsky and Stalin were faggots who never understood communism and only wanted power for themselves.

>Community should pull together and take care of every individual.
No you fucking retard. Everyone should work towards the betterment of the community. You're fucking crippled? Doesn't matter, you still try to be useful in whatever way you can so that the group as a whole benefits from your actions instead of you sitting on a wheelchair and claiming gibs from others.
>So that guy who is always.....
Yeah, I also thought you're a retard who doesn't know jack shit about communism but is shitposting on Sup Forums just to try and appear smart - when all you have is shit for brains.

>>real communism hasn't been tried
>Every fucking time
Capitalism has been around since the discovery of farming - so older than 12,000BC. All non-communist economic systems where capitalist where the means of production was in the hands of a few - private ownership. Communism has been tried since 1917 and still you sperg out on this statement? Fucking moron.

I can understand why poor illiterate Russian peasants with nothing to their name were attracted to communism, but in 1st-world nations, even the poorest nigger lives like a king compared to what those peasants experienced in 1900s Russia.

The only reason to be attracted to communism is because you’re a failure at life, looking for excuses for why you’re not rich and not too bright to begin with. Imagine if all those left-bots put their time and energy into building a career, they’d be far happier people.

>How can it argue for a classless society when all it does is agitate class warfare?
I don't argue for a classless society. I'm explaining what communism is. Now is communism implementable? Not with the current evolution of humans. You need humans who have a genetic trait that fires their dopamine circuits when they help others to have communism. Currently, a large section of the world is primarily self-interested. So no, now is not the time to implement communism. When it is time to implement communism, it will happen naturally - there won't be a need for a political party to usurp power and do shit.

Because Capitalism has failed them. Now they vote for the state to pick up the slack. Don’t want this to happen? Tell companies to pay better wages and I don’t mean these garbage bonuses that come in the form of ass kissing to the president from meme companies like Comshit.

Capitalism in the US definitely values intelligence more than luck. There are different kinds of intelligence, btw. Why do you think Jake Paul is a millionaire? You sound mad bc you’re poor.

I see. So we're still waiting for the workers of the world to unite.

so i get control of a global industry just because i work for one branch of it? also proof for the group rewards lead to higher individual rewards because ceos still make astronomically more money than managers and workers because of their self rewarding nature. how can communism advocate for a classless society when it highlights the greivances between classes like race and wealth so much in the 21st century? america south korea and japan still have the highest income averages of the modern world while being mostly capitalist with few government run industries.
none of those wars you listed are comparable to the nation building of the middle east that has happened for the last 17 years. what about capitalism was the driving factor of these wars by the way? corporatists buying political power? well that sounds like the problem of unaccountable government. over 80% of americans believed that another terrorist attack would follow 9/11 which was the justification for the war, not oil. the indians was british imperialism, not american capitalism. the american civil war was about the legal overstepping of the federal government regarding states rights. once again none of these are comparable to the middle east where given the choice americans would have wanted to pull out. tell me, if a foreign country attacked a building like the world trade center would you just turn the other cheek or would you retaliate? but please tell me how it was the fault of capitalism again.
also please prove to me that the citizens started wars because of capitalism instead of a small group of unaccountable elites who sent their footsoldiers to war.

>What is it about communism that causes this? Why does it attract mostly retards?

It's shit-tier ideology meant to attract disenfranchised young dumbfucks who have no skin in the game of life by convincing them that everything around them is a zero-sum game that's being rigged by everyone who has more than they do, which leads them to think that the only way they can get a "fair shake" is to redistribute everyone else's shit.

Basically, an ideology that's valid to 18-25 year olds, the mentally handicapped, and those who don't want to work for what they have.

Unironically this, the only people I know who desire total socialism are abject failures, and the non-failures who support it are in positions where they can espouse ideals from a position of privilege

Yeah dude, it’ll happen eventually! All the proles will revolt, no political party needed. Lmfao

>My biggest problem with communism by far is that it seems impossible to actually implement without becoming authoritarian.
Yeah, this is true. I don't think humans have genetically evolved for communism to be relevant. In order to seek the maximization of group rewards, you need to have a predisposition towards liking your fellow human beings. Most of us are still self interested and thus now's not the time for communism.
>ou end up with a new upper class of the old revolutionary intelligentsia, only now without any institutional checks and balances on the burgeoning upper class power, and more often than not it becomes illegal to even acknowledge the existence of the newly created unbound elite.
True.
>The transition to distributed rule away from party rule seems like it would require the entire military and party leadership to be unrealistically benevolent and self sacrificing, which is why things inevitably get stuck at your run of the mill 'not real communists'.
True
>All that seems to be achieved in all practical applications of Marxist theory to nations so far is making an entirely new upper class, and unbinding them from traditional checks on power.
True, except Marx didn't really understand what communism entailed economically - most mathematical proofs for communism came in the 20th century.
>Fair assessment?
Except for Marx, yes, everything else was accurate.

If you guys understood communism you'd be communist

Because if you knew anything about communism, you wouldnt be a communist.

>It's all the Jew bankers you faggot.
So communism sucks because of Jews. Capitalism sucks because of Jews. Socialism sucks because of Jews. Do you have anything else faggot?

>Capitalism is fine, I’m happy in my country and I couldn’t give a fuck about poor people if I tried.
>Capitalism is fine, I’m happy in my country and I couldn’t give a fuck about poor people until they came for my head.
FTFY

Communism and capitalism are both Jewish inventions. Care to take another swing at it?

I will be a communist if I am the faceless unelected bureaucrat that makes all the rules that everyone but me has to live under.

The reason is that they haven't watch this video yet
youtube.com/watch?v=glzXtLvloVo

Op is from russian living in the usa with the sole purpose of posting propraganda

They are called "useful idiots" for a reason OP. They don't know shit about communism nor about economics. Once their "dream" happens, they'll get gulag'd anyway.

Because actual Communist literature is long, mostly incorrect, and often self-contradicting. Most Communists really just want to virtue signal. You don't need to read Marx to demand a combination of open borders, UBI, reparations, prison abolition, hate speech laws, nationalization of the entire economy, and gun bans, which are the typical American Communist talking points.

If you understood anything about the USSR or communist history, you'd be a communist

I think people adopt communism because they are indoctrinated to hate the United States, and somehow recognize communism as something opposed by our society. It's not from well thought out reasoning. Smart people can't be communists in the 21st century unless they are also very evil.

>Capitalism in the US definitely values intelligence more than luck.
And you say this because intelligence can be measured objectively?
>Why do you think Jake Paul is a millionaire?
You're definitely trolling at this stage.
>You sound mad bc you’re poor.
Nope, work in a hospital with 140K, wife and two kids.

Faggot.

Communism is about making you feel good about starving to death.

Fact.

No fun in communism, and if you hate capitalism good bye to your starbucks you cunts.

If there needs to be a perfect society with selflessly evolved people why even have communism? A philosopher king would be better.

>I see. So we're still waiting for the workers of the world to unite.
If it happens, then it'll happen organically. I don't know which evolutionary outcome will be true - will all of us evolve to care about each other - or will a section of the population be self interested?
Capitalism is for single cellular life - maximize individual rewards. Communism is for multi-cellular life - maximize individual rewards by maximizing group rewards.
So yeah, it has to happen genetically where we're predisposed to caring for each other.

Communism will fail even if there's a significant number of self-interested individuals in the system - cancerous cells.

They never will. False consciousness is real and powerful and “evolution” will never lead to a revolution that results in communism. It’s not like I’m rich—I’m working class but I’m happy. Self-interest is a permanent human quality.

Retard

>so i get control of a global industry just because i work for one branch of it?
Learn to greentext faggot. I don't know which of your responses correspond to which things I said. Fucking faggot. Learn to present your points properly.

You don't know the first fucking thing about engineering regime change.

>be communist at age 16
>in favor of killing a billion people if necessary in order to establish communism worldwide

>be ancap age 23
>muh nap

I laugh when leftists say right wingers don't care about other people.

I just said there are multiple kinds of intelligence—if harnessed properly they all lead to some form of financial success. You’re too dumb to realize that my Jake Paul example is apt, faggot. Post picture of your wife.

bu-bu-but he surely stayed at a Holiday Inn Express

>Communism and capitalism are both Jewish inventions.
Are you a Jewish creation as well?
>Care to take another swing at it?
No, if you didn't figure out that I was calling you a retard based on what I said, I don't think me saying it again will make a difference.

Cheers. I meant Marxist theory as a broad descriptor of general communist theory rather than referring to the man himself.

I don't really know how anyone could call themselves a follower of a political ideology while acknowledging that the ideology is also totally impossible to implement but hey, at least you're honest about it.

I still wouldn't give a fuck.
I would mow down the poor people with my machine guns for trying to take my stuff.
Fuck them and fuck you.
Without me, I am nothing.

The only way a collectivist society succeeds is if total race homogeneity is present, and even then self interests would get in the way.

So you're out of arguments and now you resort to personal attacks. Nice.

They are weaklings and losers who think they would be empowered in a communist revolution, when really they would be the first sheep to the slaughter. They all think they’ll end up as overseers and on the party committees and can’t envisage themselves ending up in the work camps or out on the fields.

He’s a troll

>If there needs to be a perfect society with selflessly evolved people why even have communism?
Like I said, you can't have communism. It's an economic and political philosophy which will automatically be implemented when it's time.
>A philosopher king would be better.
You didn't understand the point. The point is not who rules, the point is how are the members of the system. Are they predisposed to working for the group? Yes, then the system will naturally implement communism based on multiple optimizing iterations. Are there self interested individuals in the system? Yes, then the system will be stuck with capitalism.

I don't know why a king would make a difference here. He's just one person - what is important is the nature of the remaining people in the system.

I take him for one of those rabbit/leftypol types who actually believes this kind of claptrap.

If you haven't memorized Great Leader Kim's 18-volume analytical presentation of the Juche Idea and discussed it for several decades at nightly worker's criticism/self-criticism struggle sessions, you have no right to comment on any of this.

>False consciousness is real and powerful and “evolution” will never lead to a revolution that results in communism.
I never said evolution will lead to a revolution that results in communism. In fact, I think communism cannot be implemented politically, it has to happen naturally, and if it is indeed implemented politically, then it's just con artists vying for power.

Holy fuck, you’re actually retarded.
>when it’s “””””time”””””” it’ll happen!!!
Yes, Karl Marx correctly predicted the endpoint of humanity’s collective evolution. Do you realize how dumb you sound?

>You don't know the first fucking thing about engineering regime change.
Why would I want to engineer a regime change? I just said that overthrowing a government and implementing communism will not work unless everyone in the system is genetically predisposed to helping each other.

Was my cellular analogy too convoluted for your pea sized brain to understand?

And for it to happen “naturally” as you’ve said multiple times, humans would have to evolve to value group success over individual success. Stop backtracking, nigger.

>and fancy themselves as dissident intellectuals.
A Communist is a bourgeois who is so retarded he thinks he is a prole.

Why is he here?

They imagine themselves in power. It's quite simply a power trip; in their minds, who could deny that forcing everyone to submit to your rule while you have all the shiny things is the best hope for society? No one, because they will either be gulag'd or executed on the spot, that's who.

What they fail to realize is that they'll be executed anyway, either for being disillusioned with the revolution and their role being diminished in it, or simply knowing too much.

suuuuure

If I cared I'd go find out. Apparently there's some increased effort from probably one of the usual gang of suspects to try to establish more of a presence on Sup Forums. They've been getting better in terms of rhetoric.

Except we are all proles DINGUS

>I just said there are multiple kinds of intelligence—if harnessed properly they all lead to some form of financial success.
>If you have some form of intelligence and you harness it then 100% you will succeed.
Hello fellow white man. How goes the evening?

>You’re too dumb to realize that my Jake Paul example is apt, faggot.
>You're too dumb to realize that young whores on YouTube who are successful only because the petrodollar allows Americans to indulge in shit level addictions like YouTube videos are intelligent because they feed off of young moronic minds.
>Sluts like Kardashians are intelligent because they whore themselves out
>Whoring is a form of intelligence
Kys.
>Post picture of your wife.
Why? Isn't your hand and imagination enough for you to jack off tonight?

? Ape?
They’re getting worse in terms of rhetoric if this thread is any indication.

>sent from my iphone

>if harnessed properly
Please read. I’ve never known this to not the case. Or do you think all the low class people in this country are temporarily embarrassed geniuses?

And yes devotion to and manipulation of an audience that results in millions of dollars in revenue is a kind of intelligence. Use your head, imbecile.

>I meant Marxist theory as a broad descriptor of general communist theory rather than referring to the man himself.
Ah ok, I see where you were coming from then. Agree with you completely then.
>I don't really know how anyone could call themselves a follower of a political ideology while acknowledging that the ideology is also totally impossible to implement
I'm an economist. We have mathematical proofs to show that communism works, and if it doesn't work in real life then it must mean that human genetic evolution - our self interested nature - plays a big part. Like I said before, if communism is implemented successfully, then it will be because of genetic evolution and not because people implemented it politically.

Just like how all the cells in our body work in unison to optimize our life processes, you need people to work in unison to realize the benefit of communism. However, if you have self-interested individuals - cancerous cells, then you can't have communism and must regress to capitalism.

Because western world has NO (zero, 0, null ) commies. What you have is a internal traitors working on country disruption. If they had any other ideology for that - they will follow it as they do it here in russia pretending to be "nazi", "democrats" or "liberals".

An economist who works in a hospital? Powerful..

> Why are amurricans derp?

/thread

>I'm an economist. We have mathematical proofs to show that communism works
kek, did you get your PhD at UMass or the New School then? or do you just count Cockshott's book as a mathematical proof that Communism works?

Because their Commie handlers leave out the good stuff.

If I think about it on like a two-year scale or so, it's gone from yelling at the sky type stuff to people who can maintain an extended debate.

Marx was a Satanist spook who worked for his banker in-laws. His entire role was to subvert meaningful revolution that would affect his financier-class family.

It works well as a viral ideology because the philosophy / talking points were engineered by spooks who knew what they were doing in the context of the suffering of the human condition.

But also never forget that Bolsheviks were largely Jewish racists intent on destroying Russia, and directly responsible for the murder of 10s of millions.

Absolutely, it’s just a shame they can’t do better. Or maybe it’s a shame that they even try, a true collectivist wouldn’t waste time that could be spent helping their community.

Commie passing by.

For all retards not understanding or deliberately strawing Communism, it is about workers control and ending class conflict.

Pol is echo chamber and you REAL extreme right wingers as some of you, can't express your ideas anywhere then here as annon fags among people who larp and take everything as joke on this board.

Why am I here? I come here for lol and to larp, sometimes as anarcho-cap (as dystopic idea it is quite interesting)

Stay mad and go do some school shootings ;) pew pew

ps. USA becoming third world country! and Trump/Republican administration is pumping more money in military.

youtube.com/watch?v=fAKyi3SYC_I

Well, you see, only productive people would bother wanting to seize the means of production. These types just say it will magically happen some day on its own.

>ending class conflict
>by stirring up class conflict
k

Hahahahahahhaha

10/10

Personally I find a system that only works without human individuality to be missing the point at best, with the potential for absolute abhorrence at worst.

All the cells working for the body is fair enough as an example, but those cells don't have an individual human experience, and I do. I don't want to experience life as a component, I want to experience it as a system, if you understand what I'm saying.

An optimised economic model might not account for what the destruction of individuality necessary to that model's implementation does to the human experience. I don't think a loss of individuality would be positive for humanity.

Fuuu kys

Economists are clinically indistinguishable from sociopaths.

This

Communism sounds very appealing to the lower classes. But the sophisticated know it's BS

Put another way, a good system for ants may not be a good system for men.