>Be me
>Decide to pursue Ph.D. in a STEM field in a department that's ranked in the top 10 in the U.S.
>Choose adviser because he has ethics and principles.
>Doesn't publish 20 papers in a year that are full of shit and low quality.
>Helps me publish 3 quality papers.
>Graduate with 3 papers in 6 years.
>Job interview time.
>Sorry user, we have Dr. Ching from another university.
>Dr. Ching graduated in 3.5 years with 8 papers.
>Sperg out and say Dr. Ching's papers are shit and Ph.D. duration doesn't matter.
>Can't help it user. NSF funds only those assistant profs who have a high publishing record in a field that Dr. Ching's working in.
>But Dr. Ching's field is full of shit and magic fairy dust and my field has a proven track record for practical applications.
>Doesn't matter user, NSF only funds cutting edge research and we don't hire candidates who have no potential for NSF funding.
>Didn't you know that no one in academia reads anyone's papers?
Why did I get punished for having principles and morals Sup Forums? Why do only the unprincipled succeed in capitalism? Why do the hard working and principled people remain middle tier in capitalism?
You need to be lucky and unscrupulous to succeed in capitalism
Morals never made any money user
if you're smart, get a real job.
You are describing academia NOT capitalism... by your inability to understand the difference I can see why you are not in high demand ... you are dumb as a rock
>be me
No not a faggot I could never be you
>hurrr you have to be an asshole to get money - that's why I'm poor, because I'm a really nice person!
lmfao pathetic excuse-making
>if you're smart, get a real job.
I had an $86K offer from GE after B.S.. Turned it down because I wanted to teach. So you're saying I'm being punished because I was passionate about teaching young men and women in STEM?
>You are describing academia NOT capitalism
Last time I checked, I was in a capitalistic economy. I realized too late that we're not in the 1960s where research is funded because it helps the industry get cutting edge tools. Now, whoever polishes shit as gold, gets funded by NSF.
>>hurrr you have to be an asshole to get money - that's why I'm poor, because I'm a really nice person!
No user. I'm saying you need to have loose ethics and morals to succeed in academia.
obviously dumb. work now, teach later
Yes
>be me
>told I need to go to PhD after BS
>be white male, 3.3 GPA(Meh tier), 94 percentile on general gre
>spent 3 undergrad years working ass off in research lab
>think I'm set for a decent chance at a decent program
>rejected by all but one school, very low ranking school
>say fuck a phd
>not even one year after graduating, land job as process chemist, make just as much as other new coworker who went to MIT (I went to a state school in one of the poorest areas of CA)
>Graduated either less than 5k debt, only 1500 left, make 6 figures as year
Not doing a PhD was the best decision I ever made.
>PhD
Getting a PhD was unnecessary and a waste of time and money.
>NSF
muh gibs
Another over educated welfare cuck.
So you wanted to teach students, but you decided to turn it down to work now?
Golly Gee.. you mean researching the reproductive differences between sparrows based on penis size is NOT high on the NSF funding list?
WHY HOW ANTI-SCIENCE can you be!!!
NSF does (and SHOULD) fund research that actually benefits mankind.
I am sure your unbelievably specialized study of a trivial aspect of something is important to you and the three other humans that would care, but spending taxpayer money on it is wasteful when compared to curing cancer.
>He didn't know about Publish or Perish.
While I think that you're stupid for assuming that you should be paid an exorbitant amount of money for teaching, it's an open secret that most research these days is geared towards quick iterative fixes that produce headlines and clickbait.
You can always go the Theodore Kazinsky route if you want your research to get attention.
>>PhD
>Getting a PhD was unnecessary and a waste of time and money.
I paid for my PhD with teaching and research assistantships. I didn't spend a single dime of mine or my parents money during my Ph.D.
getting a doctorate straight after finishing your masters.
Lmao what an idiot.
Do you not realize this shit is the same world wide? Look at Mr Chang. All schools reward this paper mill bullshit. Any employer worth working for would have read the papers of both applicants.
You got outclassed by a chang, deal with it.
Quit being a poorfag and live with your choices. Quit blaming everyone else. I got turned down for jobs that I was more than qualified for but I didn't cry about it, I kept searching and found a better job.
yea, explain why i always talk to fobs when i call tech and product support
you saw this coming, did you fail enough fobs in your class?
i doubt it.
also, you should know schools are jews.
you also didn't make any money or savings (30k/year doesn't count lol)
Nice fake thread OP. If your papers are worth anything you will get a better placement than Dr. Ching.
The truth is most likely they just aren't as good as you think they are.
I fucked around in highschool and dropped out of college. I smoke weed everyday and eat whatever I want without exercising. I make over 100k a year on Twitch
Suck my dick dr. do good
my idol
>Golly Gee.. you mean researching the reproductive differences between sparrows based on penis size is NOT high on the NSF funding list?
Mechanical engineering. Improving engine life by computationally discovering thermodynamically stable materials. Not biological.
>NSF does (and SHOULD) fund research that actually benefits mankind.
My field has a proven track record of helping the automotive industry.
>I am sure your unbelievably specialized study of a trivial aspect of something is important to you and the three other humans that would care, but spending taxpayer money on it is wasteful when compared to curing cancer.
That's NIH. NSF gets a certain amount of money from the government and NIH gets about 10 times more. NSF doesn't compete with NIH. They're separate.
>claims to have PhD
>fails to understand difference between state funded academic memery and capitalism
what went wrong?
Every Chang in China and every Gupta in India that is getting a PhD teams together to produces a dozen papers a year.
Every knows this.
Either you produce papers that are highly referenced (quality) or you shit out a paper a month (quantity).
You are doing neither.
You failed the academic game.
>He didn't know about Publish or Perish.
I knew about publishing one publon per paper to get ahead in life. But the papers I read wouldn't even qualify as half a publon (not possible, but metaphorically).
But your point is I should have dropped by standards and published trash while passing it off as gold?
>While I think that you're stupid for assuming that you should be paid an exorbitant amount of money for teaching,
I always knew I would get paid in the range of $60K to $80K for teaching. I didn't do this for the money.
>You can always go the Theodore Kazinsky route if you want your research to get attention.
No. It's fine. I'm not that kind of a person. I'm sad and disappointed, but I won't do that.
Fortune favors the brave
Luck is God's will essentially
Notice how degenerate lottery winners almost always go broke?
Bro academia is corrupt. Go into the free market where skills and productivity actually gets rewarded. Unless you are corrupt yourself because tenured professor is a cozy life.
Can't think of anything worse than being stuck in academia writing boring papers all day. You got lucky,user.
Imaqtpie?
>mechanical engineering. 10 dollar words that are hardly coherent.
Your story stinks of cockbreath and bullshit.
>Do you not realize this shit is the same world wide? Look at Mr Chang. All schools reward this paper mill bullshit.
Yeah. You're right about me being stupid enough to believe that academia had principles. That, is my fault.
>Any employer worth working for would have read the papers of both applicants.
Had 8 interviews and none of them read my papers. All of them knew the field I worked in, and they cared more about the university and department I graduated from. Heck, if I handn't pursued a Ph.D. in my department, pretty sure I wouldn't have even landed any interviews with 3 papers.
>You got outclassed by a chang, deal with it.
I'm trying and it's hard to accept. It's like spending 6 years of your life in a field that is shown to be unscrupulous and shallow - the complete opposite of what you expected.
>I got turned down for jobs that I was more than qualified for but I didn't cry about it, I kept searching and found a better job.
Yeah, that's a good attitude user. I should adopt that.
He got a PhD. 90% chance he doesn't have anything useful for the market.
begging for NSF funds has nothing to do with capitalism.
Take your Ph.D. to Mickey.D.
>you saw this coming
Yeah, you see a lot of unprincipled people in academia, but it's never obvious till job interview time that they rule and run it as well.
>also, you should know schools are jews.
I'm not Jewish and neither was Dr. Ching.
lol nice blog
the absolute state of academia is due to capitalism, dipshit
Dude I applied to 105 jobs less than one year after graduating. All over the country. 8 is nothing. I got turned down for shit tier jobs, but now I'm making more than the professors that used to teach me and I only have a BS. Their salaries are public, and unless it's a high ranking school professors don't make very much money.
Maybe if you did your research before you committed to a PhD you wouldn't be in this situation. But no, you're naive and retarded.
>get a PhD after 6 years in a top quality institute in STEM fields
The fact you didn't realize this is how academia worked means you're lying
>Complain about not having desired outcome due to having high morals.
>Posts image showing topless woman
>you also didn't make any money or savings (30k/year doesn't count lol)
I have about 8K in savings from my time as a PhD student. I don't spend much and my parents have my siblings to support, so I didn't take any money from them. Surviving on a graduate salary is not hard if you live within your means.
relll
Also how did you not have a postdoctoral fellowship lined up?
you can kys
or you can keep going your thing 10x better and in 5 years fuck dr.ching wife while he is jacking off in the corner
Government funded programs, grants, Marxist filled rhetoric and couseload, riding off of taxpayer dollar.
>market driven
Neck yourself communist neet.
>The truth is most likely they just aren't as good as you think they are.
Yeah, maybe this is not untrue. I was just disappointed that I got tuned down due to the number of papers I had published. If someone had told me that my papers were worth shit, that would have been easier to accept and improve on. But publishing 1 good paper in 2 years is worse than publishing about 1.5 shitty papers in a year is hard to accept. It goes against my core beliefs, but yeah, maybe Sup Forums is right. Maybe I just have to accept this is how the academia is.
>Suck my dick dr. do good
I do envy your life now. I'm not sure why I worked this hard.
Well, in this case they do. OP is talking about Publishing Ethics in academia, not ethics in general. If you think good academic papers don't increase the value of money for everyone, please take your phone and all of your internet-using devices and throw them out -- and then promptly stop using any company that uses the internet in their day-to-day operations. Then tell me that ethics in academia don't matter. That's right, the internet as we use it today is largely a result of academics working together to improve the world.
OP points to a real issue in academia. Good ideas that lead to real-world applications are supposed to be encouraged. In reality, papers and grants beget more papers and grants -- even if all the papers are shit. You see this all the time in the fields of sociology and gender studies. But as OP points out, you also see it all the time in STEM.
Indeed, I know a bunch of professors who invested 10 years of work and millions of dollars worth of grants into a project (to preserve my anonymity, I will not reveal what the project was). The initial paper was expository: "Recent developments in fields X, Y, and Z may need new tools A, B, C. Here are questions 1, ..., 10 that might help start developing Tool C." Once that paper was developed, the professors could get all their papers on questions 1 through 10 published by simply referencing the initial article. Because publishing was so easy, they also easily obtained grants. The problem: A year later, people in field X, Y, and Z realized that Tool C was useless. But since no one really reads papers from other subfields (as OP points out), no one working on Tool C knew that it was useless. So they worked on it for another nine years until finally a newcomer asked why any of their work was important. They then looked back at the original paper and realized none of their work was important -- 10 years and millions of grant dollars later.
>the absolute state of academia is due to capitalism, dipshit
NO.. due to nepotism and racism
Chinese professors push for more Chinese students, same with Indian.
White European professors push for anything BUT white European students.
Academia SPECIFICALLY STEM is pushing to remove white European based students.
Are you a white European descended student?
If so the cards are stacked AGAINST you.
>>fails to understand difference between state funded academic memery and capitalism
I'm in the U.S, not Germany. NSF budgets are decided every 3-4 years by the Senate and Congress. It's not the same as Europe.
You have to be lucky and unscrupulous just to survive as a biological organism.
This is the way life has evolved for hundreds of millions of years, success doesn't cater to the weak
>Every Chang in China and every Gupta in India that is getting a PhD teams together to produces a dozen papers a year.
>Every knows this.
Yeah, I knew this too. I was a fool to try and be different.
>You are doing neither.
>You failed the academic game.
Yeah yeah. I have to accept this.
Sorry about the (((nsf))) funding issue.
Makes me feel better about being a lowly no-PhD STEMcuck.
But really that's a sign of how bad the times are.
It's your fault OP.
Doctor Ching is probably have principles and morals too but he also knows how the game is played. It's your fault for not realising what you needed to do to get the job. Now Ching has the job, he'll be free to conduct his researchs properly while your "ethic" will lead to a great big nothing.
>I wanted to teach
You are a retard. No wonder you got a phd.
>Go into the free market where skills and productivity actually gets rewarded.
Yeah, I guess I'll have to try and get back into GE.
TL;DR: OP is right: Papers beget paper; Grants beget grants; And you all are losing because of it -- in taxes and wasted labor.
>Your story stinks of cockbreath and bullshit.
What are you talking about? Computationally determining the properties of materials via integer and mixed-integer programming has been around for a while now. It began in Physics and slowly percolated into Mechanical Engineering and Material Sciences.
this is your arguement? no wonder you only wrote 3 papers.
That's his point... How are you not getting this?
Lol, throw away your ethics and morals. This shit is why we are forced to take rapefugees and legalise illegals.
>the cards are stacked AGAINST you
Damn, us whites must be really good because 95% of all academics are white anyway !
>Why do the hard working and principled people remain middle tier in capitalism?
That’s the big secret no one tells you and you eventually just figure it out. Some are content to be good people and remain comfortably middle class, while others are climbers and attempt to become modern-day Julien Sorels. That is to say, only borderline sociopathic behavior or extremely uncommon luck will make you a “winner.” At my first “real job” everyone stabbed each other in the back over leads, territories, bonuses, whatever. After law school, I saw even more common instances of unethical (and sometimes illegal) behavior among very powerful people.
You just have to accept that there isn’t enough rally an American Dream. You can still “make it,” but only if you change who you are and become a piece of shit. Or if you win the lottery, I suppose.
academics need a purge every 50 years or so, otherwise these eggheads get subverted
>Dude I applied to 105 jobs less than one year after graduating. All over the country. 8 is nothing.
I applied to 115 and got 8 interviews. Academic jobs are not many and most of the time we also apply to jobs that aren't even looking for people with our expertise just in case we get lucky - which I did since two of my interviews were more related to vibration research in automobiles.
>I got turned down for shit tier jobs, but now I'm making more than the professors that used to teach me and I only have a BS.
I didn't do this for the money.
>Maybe if you did your research before you committed to a PhD you wouldn't be in this situation. But no, you're naive and retarded.
I think this is a very fair assessment.
>not a single word about the private sector
>capitalism
Why are you retarded?
>Also how did you not have a postdoctoral fellowship lined up?
I had one offer from my co-adviser. But I don't think I'll take it. I'll take a break for a year, and then apply to a small teaching school with no research programs. If I accept the post doc position, then it's the same cycle all over again - publish papers even if they're shit and try to con NSF into giving you money.
Calling (((academia))) capitalism. KEK.
I got an undergrad in accounting, opened a gun shop, and earn $280,000 per year in my twenties. I have an IQ in the 140's, earned a 4.0, started with $20,000 and turned it into a million dollar business. I'm already ethical, but capitalism absolutely forces you to be ethical. If you don't do right by your customers, you go out of business. A few bad reviews and I could be finished.
>or you can keep going your thing 10x better and in 5 years fuck dr.ching wife while he is jacking off in the corner
Hahahaha. This post made my day. No, I'm fine.
> calling US universities "public"
You're equally retarded
Sounds like a waste of time. I did chemistry, and most of the people who pursued compounds from conformational analysis never did half as well as the guys doing parallel synthesis (10 dollar word for shotgun approach).
Like I said, I don't know mechanical engineering but computational "discovery" of compounds or materials is the shit academia pulls out of a hat to pretend they are actually discovering something.
>Damn, us whites must be really good because 95% of all academics are white anyway !
TRUE... but look at the demographics at EVERY STEM school and you will see that the tide is changing and changing FAST.
All the white professors are retiring and the new ones are almost ALL foreign born.
always remember that hominids spend 90% of their fertile years focused on access to sex & reproduction, and acquiring the resources to support successful sexual reproduction.
If youre focused on morals and ethics and “civilization”, then youre doin it wrong and are gonna get run over by a Cheng who is focused on acquiring $$$ to buy a Mercedes to impress a fertile female hominid
But a postdoc will make you more competitive even if you ultimately don't publish anything. Like this user said. Success follows success.
Someone is messing with me here.
>duhhh hurrrr everytihng is about muh dick
kill yourself pseud
acadamia is a joke if you are a native american. all they want are chinks and brown people from shitholes for 'diversity' and 'foreign culture'. almost all grad school programs will be 80% foreigners
Owning a small business and earning middle class income isn’t exactly “making it,” so you haven’t disproved OP’s point.
Thanks for reminding me how not to fuck up.
this is going to be a good year.
Because the US government is a government. They are not based on results. If there is a war, and they are afraid to lose it, they will be driven by results while the threat is active. There is no active threat now. They would rather get a minority applicant or someone who will look good for them. We shouldn't fund any of this shit, but we do. I take comfort of the beating we will receive if we chose to attack any serious country, and that even includes the Best Korea. We are now what Soviet Union was in the 80s. There is still reputation, but nothing backing it. Someone will call the bluff. Then you don't want to be near any government funded shit. Best case scenario all Chungs will get cut like in the 90s, worst case scenario they will start dumpster diving to find food like in the 90s in the Soviet Union. The extreme stupidity on this scale has always ended in a total annihilation of the host country.
>muh academia is DIFFERENT
Rethink your path in life or quit complaining. Your only issue here is over valuing your own self worth.
>didn't do this for money
Then why are you complaining about not being able to find a job? Of course you did it for money, you just want to sit back and contribute very little to the market or society like 90% of professors.
Tenure ruined academia. It was a double edged sword that was sharper on the backside.
>Government funded programs, grants, Marxist filled rhetoric and couseload, riding off of taxpayer dollar.
>>market driven
NSF funds research projects based on proposals. So you submit a proposal with the idea you want to research, and if you can convince them that it's awesome and relevant, then they fund you.
>I live only for the wet hole between a woman’s legs
Sad!
>Are you a white European descended student?
Yeah. I've heard of Chinese and Indian profs pushing for their students, but never white profs pushing for non-white students.
>You have to be lucky and unscrupulous just to survive as a biological organism.
Yeah. It's all being made painfully clear to me now.
>Doctor Ching is probably have principles and morals too but he also knows how the game is played.
You know, you're probably right. Perhaps Dr. Ching is a good guy, but he's gaming the system because everyone else is. There's nothing wrong with that. If anything, I see now that it's with people like me. We should adapt to the system and not except the system to be a certain way.
>Decide to pursue Ph.D. in a STEM field
Stopped reading here. You fell into an easily-avoidable trap and you’re blaming an economic system.
I’m an average-skilled STEM with a bachelor degree in the lowest-paying field (computer science) and I’m making 55K.
>middle class
I don't think user was being honest, but 280k/yr literally puts him in the 1% of the US.
>but never white profs pushing for non-white students.
How the fuck do you think the Chinese and Indians got hired in the first place?
STEM departments are being DOMINATED by foreign born professors. The American White professors are retiring in droves.
>That's his point... How are you not getting this?
NSF is not some non-capitalistic enterprise that funds all research. You submit proposals and basically sell your idea to NSF. You can even paint shit as gold and get your project funded.
European funding agencies have quotas that ensure all researchers get some opportunity to get funded. I know what he's talking about and I know NSF is more free-market than Europe.
>Lol, throw away your ethics and morals. This shit is why we are forced to take rapefugees and legalise illegals.
Yeah. This thread is making it obvious to me, painfully.
>Damn, us whites must be really good because 95% of all academics are white anyway !
In France maybe. Not in the U.S.
>That’s the big secret no one tells you and you eventually just figure it out.
Yeah.
>That is to say, only borderline sociopathic behavior or extremely uncommon luck will make you a “winner.”
Yeah, I realize this now.
>You just have to accept that there isn’t enough rally an American Dream. You can still “make it,” but only if you change who you are and become a piece of shit. Or if you win the lottery, I suppose.
Hehe, I'm almost in tears reading this, but yeah, it's true.
Why do research in the US anyway ? Do you really want to dedicate you career to perfect anti-age creams or discovers new ways for old jewish people to get an erection ?
>Sounds like a waste of time.
It's the next generation research in material sciences. Getting computers to approximate properties of new material combinations. That way, you can estimate an alloy's properties before you make it. It saves tons of money for everyone.
>Like I said, I don't know mechanical engineering but computational "discovery" of compounds or materials is the shit academia pulls out of a hat to pretend they are actually discovering something.
Testing different alloys takes time and money. My field cuts those costs by more than three times by estimating the properties computationally. I work on automobiles, but the applications of my field is primarily in military materials.
I've seen plenty of people apply for grants, and even overlooked people's grants.
The ones that make it are the ones who publish papers. Period. They want (((research))) for their money.
Nsf and nih are a huge circle jerk that fund people based on previous groups they worked in and minority status, like RIMI in the csu and uc systems.
I've seen people get millions of dollars of funding for THIRD HAND SMOKE RESEARCH(not a joke), then sit on it for over a year and drag their ass to produce anything worthwhile. Once the money is almost out they publish some.bullshit, rinse and repeat.
Do you think the person who signed over the money actually has time.to read every (((study))) that gets published? No, they just see if anything was published and consider their grant money successful.
The fact that you haven't said anything similar leads me to believe that you are either a LARP, or you really are too stupid to be useful. In which case the PhD makes sense.