If South Vietnam would have remained independent and non communist...

If South Vietnam would have remained independent and non communist, would they be in a similar state as South Korea today?

If not, why?

>pic unrelated

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ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ST/ST.html
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_aid_to_Vietnam
bbc.com/news/business-33047924
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No. For the same reason that Japan had literal nukes dropped on them and are still doing better than Haiti and other shitholes. The people work hard and are smart.

Possibly. Depends on the government that ruled in the 80s and 90s and if/when the war ended.

It could also end up more like the Philippines.

No. they would still he better off economically than the north like in Korea but there probably wouldn't be feminist cults, plastic surgery fads, and hyperconsumerism like on S Korea since S Vietnam was Catholic

>It could also end up more like the Philippines.
Far more likely, with a large ongoing communist insurgency also

Catholics were never anything but a minority in South Vietnam.

A minority with massive political influence
The Emperor of Vietnam even converted

Disagree with this Vietnam could have been and still can be the powerhouse of SE Asia
Vietnamese are a resourceful and hard working people. Don't forget after the Americans left they were forced to go to war with and desposed of the Khmer Rouge

If the Easter Offensive was repelled I could see the North not attempting another invasion. The Soviets were getting impatient with dumping weapons on them. A guerilla campaign could continue until the 1980s with severe repression stamping it out to a similar situation with Marcos in the Philippines.

You can say the same thing about Christians in South Korea though.

Probably. They are better off though, they've got their freedom won in blood and will arrive at the same endpoint anyway, on their own. SK got massive aid from the US and Japan, Vietnam is clawing it's way to prosperity on its own, and there's more honor in that.

South Korea never had an emperor.

ho chi minh begged the usa to allow vietnam to remain allied to the usa as it had rescued 550 downed us aviators from the japs.

the mil industrial complex demanded war
ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ST/ST.html

And the Emperor of Vietnam was deposed shortly after the partition.

No. Different ethics, koreans are closer to Japanese. South Viet would probably be closer to thailand.

Vietnamese work like animals and their IQ is on par with whites. The difference is that the US won against Japan, and after the war they maintained a presence and shaped the country through massive aid and investment. A similar thing happened in SK, the US defended SK and needed them as allies in Asia, so they maintained a presence and gave A LOT of foreign aid and investment to SK (I'm talking a shitload of money here).

What did Vietnam get? They got bombed back to the stone-age, ruining their industries, and then they got embargoed by the US until 1994. They were also in a border war with China between 1974-1990, so they were pretty much completely on their own.

tldr: It is massively unfair to the Vietnamese to compare them to the South Koreans and the Japanese. It's like comparing a stray dog that is struggling to catch food on the street to a pet dog owned by a billionaire.

>massive aid from the US and Japan
not much from japan. US did give economic aid but the cost of the war was arguably large enough to offset the amount. there's countries who recieved more support multilaterally from the US and other countries that weren't even recovering from a war that aren't doing nearly as well as korea. it's a stark contrast to what a sharp and high IQ population can achieve

Yes, it probably would have. South Vietnam had its problems, but it was the richest country in SE Asia at the time, and relatively free compared to both the DRV and SRV. Communist unification threw all of Vietnam back decades.

We should have gotten our priorities straight and worked on executing all of our domestic communists like Tom Hayden, Angela Davis, Bill Ayers etc. before moving on to deal with the Viet Cong. But we wimped out and indulged these petulant adolescents instead of giving them the death they so rightly deserved.

>The US provided $2.44 billion dollars in grants to rebuild Japan, ending in 1953

>the US offered about $60bn in grants and loans to South Korea between 1946 and 1978. In the same period, the total amount of aid provided by the US to the entire African continent was $68.9bn

(I'm just including the African number to give a sense of scale, not to try to exonerate africans of their incompetence)

What did Vietnam experience during the same timeframe? Getting invaded by first France, and then bombed back to the stone-age by the US. Then they got jack shit until 1991, when they got... 1 million USD to buy prostethics for their bombed to shit populace. Thanks!

They have started to get a bit of aid recently though, through international aid, but it pales in comparison to that given to South Korea. About US$14 billion since 1993 according to the link below, and that's in modern value (not 1950's value, which would be higher).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_aid_to_Vietnam

tldr: Vietnam got jack shit for the entire 20th century in international aid while South Korea and Japan were literally bukkaked by money.

>aquiringmeme.exe

The whole (american) war is a crime and a tragedy. They were supposed to hold elections in 1956 to unify the country and decide who to lead, but since they'd probably vote for Ho Chi Minh, the US and South Vietnam blocked the election, and the rest is history.

The North/South-split was only supposed to be temporary. Also, it is now known that the Tonkin bay incident was completely fabricated, so literally 100% about this war was pure bullshit.

>They were supposed to hold elections in 1956 to unify the country and decide who to lead, but since the Communists would rig the vote for Ho Chi Minh

FTFY

>Probably
>I know nothing but I talk anyway

The Vietnamese work like god damn animals. 12 hour days are more rule than exception, and you think they have free weekends and annual vacations? They get sundays off and a week off at Tet once a year, that's it.

Vietnam outperform other nations of similar economic levels in international PISA-tests, they even out-perform some western nations (like US and the UK).

bbc.com/news/business-33047924

>i got caught comparing apples and oranges
>i'll keep doing it

Was COMPD posting the best thing to happen to Sup Forums since the election?

But would they have been better off without communism?

Ah, I guess you've seen the shortened version of Ken Burns "The Vietnamn War" on SVTplay. Thanks for your valuable input.

Fuck no. Vietnamese people are yellow niggers.

Working hard =/= working smart, they can have two very different outcomes.

>Christians aren't an equally influential minority in South Korea

Why don't you see how many presidents were Christian.

They would undeniably have been better off without communism. Don't know what documentary you are talking about, I just have an interest in the Vietnam war and Vietnam in general.

Also, stop watching SVT you shitter. Why do you even know that it exists?

Working hard indicates willingness to work, and study. Which is what is needed for a country to grow.

Again, look at history to see why Vietnam are where they are now. Take away all historical aid to Japan and Korea, and give Japan, Korea and Vietnam peace to grow, and then you'd see a comparable outcome.

My predictions:

>Japan would be well off
>Korea would be poor as shit
>Vietnam would be well off

Sorry SK, but you got ASTRONOMICAL amounts of money in aid and permanent western presence, and they still manage to be semi third-world and have a weird, fucky government.

>om 1953 to 1974, when grant assistance dwindled to a negligible amount, the nation received some US$4 billion of grant aid. About US$3 billion was received before 1968, forming an average of 60 percent of all investment in South Korea. As Park's policies took effect, however, the dependence on foreign grant assistance lessened. During the 1966-74 period, foreign assistance constituted about 4.5 percent of GNP and less than 20 percent of all investment
>During the mid-1960s, South Korea's economy grew so rapidly that the United States decided to phase out its aid program to Seoul
>United States assistance ended in the early 1970s
so no, you're just exaggerating. you'd just need to look at north korea to get an idea of how worse vietnam would fare in comparison. north korea has been and currently is pressured economically by the US yet they've been able to make leaps and bounds in their weapons programs

I’ve been to all over Asia. SEAs are not as industrious as the NEAs (Chinese, Korean, Japanese, and Taiwanese). Do NOT mistake the industriousness of Asian immigrants with their brethren back home. All Asian immigrants are hardworking because they’re the cream of the crop who had enough money to escape their homeland, but the actual SEAs in their homeland are lazy, especially the Flips. Most Flips just stand around doing nothing during work or chat the entire day away. Granted, Viets are like a hybrid NEA-SEA people so they’re superior to other SEAs.

I'd rather take my sources second-hand from Korea itself than first-hand from Quora.

>Vietnam would be well off
Their priorities are not technocratic like Korea or Japan.

t. Seojun Pyeong

but you didn't get your source from korea at all and the source i quoted wasn't even from 'quora'

Take you kimchi and fuck off, Pak-Yun

lel gtfo, nguyen

This issue seems very personal to you

I assure you that I have no personal connection to the wonderful nation and people that is Vietnam and the Vietnamese, I swear by uncle Ho.

Atleast they know and dare to fight not like you coward mudslime

Yep he’s a Viet immigrant. Asian immigrants have an inflated perception of their motherland because they’ve never lived their for extended periods of time.

Fucking leaf everytime
Those Kong are at war till very 90 s

>there*

the norks taught nams guerilla warfare

show your flag, sven nguyen

Most vietnamese I've met have been cool. They're either psycho or chill though, there's no in between.

>They're either psycho or chill though
hmong are even worse about that tho tbqh

Nah, I'll put my cards on the table, married to a Viet chick, spent a lot of time in Vietnam. Considering getting citizenship and moving there actually.

Not left wing though, but neither are they really. Vietnam and China are communists in name only.

that's just pathetic

Sorry Pham you’re not fooling me. I know my share of Vietnam expats and not a single one gets emotional or defensive about this crap. Never in my life have I met a Vietboo though I’ve met boos of all kinds during my travels. Most I hear about is the corruption in Vietnam, Internet that goes on and off, and complaints about having to fork over bribes. I’ve been around, trust me. Anyway this is getting OT and cringey so I’ll be the one to stop first. I will say this though: Vietnam seems to have a brighter future than other SEA countries, esp the Philippines.

The Vietnamese are practical people. A separate south Vietnam would probably be like a China-Taiwan situation: Political tension and harsh rhetoric, but lots of trade and interconnection on the practical level.

The corruption is shitty, yes, never had internet issues though.

I'm not going to lie, Vietnam has serious issues as a country, but I can not see them going anywhere but straight up, and fast. They are also a very nice people, have'nt been scammed in Vietnam once (to compare, I've been to Thailand far less and gotten scammed several times).

>literally 11th highest nation in the world in terms of GDP
>semi-third-world

Seen how it looks outside of Seoul? Many parts aren't a pretty sight.

I hope you’re not implying communism vs democracy because South Korea was a military dictatorship until the late 80s.

Korean here. Nguyen, I understand you guys are on a patriotic high these days thanks to soccer but tone it down a bit? Why are you intentionally picking a fight with Korea? What do you know about Korean history anyway besides the Japanese netouyo memes spammed on int and pol? Yeah, Korea was poor and waning during the late 20th century but so was China and so were YOU (Vietnam was a French colony at the same time). Google Korean inventions then google Vietnamese inventions and compare and get back to me... Korea was still so historically poor and Vietnam was so historically rich and glorious? Korea has been memed on for decades by (1) Japanese, the most autistic nerds on the world and (2) Chinese, the most populous and brainwashed country. That’s why Korea has such a memey and crap reputation on the Internet. Vietnam isn’t even in China or Japan’s crosshairs which is very fortunate for your country’s reputation. The frank reality is that Vietnam is not at the same level of rivalry... of course Vietnam can one day reach it and I hope you do. Don’t pick a fight with your biggest benefactor... a quarter of Vietnam’s exports is Samsung alone... your highest skyscraper built by Korean... and even your soccer was largely helped by that bald Korean guy.

No. As Korea was the second nation at the end of WWII to be divided between the US and Russia. In which both nations installed their puppet leader.

Vietnam what tunnels that ran through every major govt institution in the South. Separation of North and South wasn’t feasible. It was either a wIn by the North or the South.

I'm actually a Swede, sorry broseph. Kimchi is actually tasty.

Pretty much every developed country has some "ghetto" parts of the nation.

Sweden didn't, until very recently with the invasion of crap people.

Checked.

What's wrong with Vietnam?

Nothing, here's one of my own photos from HCMC. Vietnam's a neat place.

Another nice pic (touristy area and not really representative, but still nice).

That's pretty neat.

Oh okay. Anyway I like Vietnam and Vietnamese people. And I know Vietnam will be very prosperous soon. My brother runs an English academy in Vietnam and he is very optimistic about Vietnam’s economy. My brother is a major foodie and he tells me Vietnamese cuisine is the best in the world. Also most Koreans are very very apologetic about the Korean war crimes in the Vietnam War. Laslty some Koreans are actually descendants of a Vietnamese prince (Hwa San Yi). Anyway my point is there should be no reason for hate between the two countries. Anyway I hope you have a great life in Vietnam when you move there.

Here's a neat pic of Da Nang (I think it was Da Nang, been a few years).

Vietnamese food is very tasty once you get used to it, it seems slightly strange at first (to a westerner at least). Nowadays I long for the next time I can eat some Pho, snails, Bahn Mi and so on.

Here's a pic of Hanoi, very comfy place.

I actually don't dislike Koreans a bit, got a bit riled up and almost approached shitposting. Both me and my wife are planning to take a trip to SK in the future and we are looking forward to it.

>I also enjoy k-pop more than a late 20's man should