So is Ougi like Araragi's daughter?

So is Ougi like Araragi's daughter?

tulpa

She's simulatenously Araragi himself and his daughter with Shinobu

>his daughter with Shinobu

Don't you mean Kanbaru?

That was part of it too. I'd expect no less of Araragi.

Does that make Araragi and Oshino brothers?

No, That would make Shinobu Oshino's sister.

Remember how Hanekawa unknowingly created the tiger from her subconscious anger, jealousy and frustration? Ougi's basically the same thing, created from Araragi's self-criticism and self-hatred. But thanks to his connection with Shinobu (and by extension, Shinobu's first servant and his power-sapping ability) Ougi ended up with the powers and strengths of pretty much everyone in the story.

wat

I want a sleevejob from Araragi (female).

>Don't you mean Kanbaru?
Not unless Shinobu consumed her before creating Ougi.
>and by extension, Shinobu's first servant and his power-sapping ability
We can't say that exactly because he technically became batfood. Even if your mother ate ton of apples & bananas and then your father seeded you, you can't consider the apples & bananas as your parents or even say they are a part of you. The same goes for the creation of Ougi by Shinobu & Araragi. Those oddities are like the apples & bananas and nothing more than nourishment. So we can't extend Ougi's creation to the food Shinobu ate. The most we could say is that it triggered or catalyzed her creation. That is why Gaen specifically said, that Ougi is Araragi & Shinobu's joint production through the tons of oddities. She actually said the "first" but that is technically wrong because he does not exist anymore. Also. it does not really matter how all the oddities came to be because each and every one of them has already been "converted" or in layman's term "digested" to "ghastly energy". So, we can completely drop all the apples & bananas and just say that Shinobu&Araragi created Ougi.

We could do a DNA test like what they did in shinobumonotogari and I bet that the only thing we can find there are Shinobu & Araragi's DNA.

>not unless shinobu consumed her before
She did
That's how Ougi is a thing
Shinobu ate the rainy devil and it got passed into あららららららららぎ through his shadow and created spougi

>She did
She did not consumed her, it was just her energy and some compound x which I think is just part of the rainy devil's existence. Similar to what Shinobu consumed from neko when she energy drained Tsubasa.
>it wasn’t the Rainy Devil that got mixed into the First, but the unidentifiable compound my sister made.
If that is the case, Shinobu energy drained Tsubasa too, then why are not including her and neko in the equation?! Everything bat consumes gets digested.It is not like everything she consumes stay intact in her. That is just creepy!
>That's how Ougi is a thing
Ougi is not at thing. She is a person. She is much sentient and conscious as Shinobu & Dramaturgy is.

i guess

Specifically, everything about her personality and character is defined from Araragi, and her physical form comes from a mix of Araragi, Shinobu's energy, Rainy Devil's energy, and Seishiro's energy being expelled. She's like a way more advanced version of Hanekawa's tiger oddity basically, though only in the factors that caused her to appear.

Ever since the rest of Owari was animated people here have been hung up on the one line about Shinobu that Gaen says while ignoring the other 30 minutes of explanation she gives though, I've noticed.

You wouldn't find either of their DNAs since in the literal sense she's not related to Araragi or Shinobu, she's just Oshino's niece. Words and recognition are all that empowers oddities, don't forget that.

Ougi was formed out of a combination of that energy. Shinobu example did not literally give birth to her, as much as you seem to wish to she did. Gaen very literally explained it as Shinobu absorbing a lot of different oddity energies and that combining with Araragi's need for self-criticism, in particular Rainy Devil being the key component.

Ougi's only a "person" due to how she's perceived, the way oddities exist are the only bit of actual supernatural lore this franchise runs on, how can you not understand that?

So I guess she's given up on correcting Mayoi and Shinobu. What made her change her mind?

>You wouldn't find either of their DNAs since in the literal sense she's not related to Araragi or Shinobu, she's just Oshino's niece.
We have new info in shinobumonogatari and that is oddities have dna. suicide-master's minion has her dna footprint on them. It goes to say that oddities that are born from you should have a dna footprint of you as well in them. That is if the oddity has a physical body like Ougi & Neko. Unlike Kako, who most like is just an apparition, does not have a physical body like Mayoi.

I doubt that Meme has a dna footprint on Ougi because he is not even born from him. And, we could not really say that he gave Ougi a new identity and hence she is his oddity now. That is clearly not the case. He just refuted what Araragi claimed earlier. The most we could say is that, everything just came back to where it started. One thing we could speculate is that Ougi is now bounded to his family name. So, like Shinobu, it would hinder her from doing that would taint Meme's name to some extent. Unlike before where Ougi can freely kill whoever she wants.

>Shinobu example did not literally give birth to he
Yes. She did not literally but technically. Gaen herself is not surprise that Shinobu could create a high-school girl. She said that because she believes that Shinobu's matter creation made if possible to create something like Ougi. But she did not really did it alone because Ougi was influenced to by Araragi's self-criticism. In effect, they created Ougi together. That was what Gaen trying to say from the start.

>“People can think whatever they want deep down, and it’s not like they’re going to create an oddity that way—however, to declare you ‘one mere high schooler’ would be a bit of a misnomer. After all, you’re a quasi-human who keeps the remnants of a legendary vampire in your shadow.

In short, Araragi alone could not have created Ougi by himself. Gaen was just speaking metaphorically that Ougi is a combination of the whole town to emphasize that Ougi is really strong but that does not mean that she is literally tons of oddities packed together She knows that all of the oddities have been completely turned into "ghastly energy", the fundamental element needed for oddities to be born. Gaen was well aware of the danger in Shinobu consuming all that energy and admitted that it was partly her fault for adding the trigger, which is the unknown component, which made it possible to give birth to an oddity. That is a miscalculation in her part. We have to admit, if Kanbaru was not there, the first wouldn't have absorb that unknown and Ougi will probably not be born.

>Ougi's only a "person" due to how she's perceived, the way oddities exist are the only bit of actual supernatural lore this franchise runs on, how can you not understand that?
That is just the general idea but it has proven again and again that that does no affect an oddity individually. Araragi even doubt sometimes that he is really influencing Shinobu that much. The nature of an oddity cannot easily be swayed.

Araragi's daughter and Shinobu's sister, yeah.

So is Shinobu also Araragi's daughter?

>Not unless Shinobu consumed her before creating Ougi.
It's exactly the same thing as what happened with Kanbaru. Energy taken from Kanbaru (technically Tooe I suppose) and energy taken from Shinobu formed Ougi's physical body.

The Araragi = Ougi thing is considerably more accurate and Gaen says as such but the 1-2 lines about Ougi being akin to his daughter has set waifufag senses on fire evidently.

>their ooga booga oddity energies touched
>took a bath together in Koyomi Reverse
Fucking hell Araragi's gotten further along with Tooe than Kaiki did despite her being dead.

>If Ougi is Araragi's daughter and Shinobu's sister then Shinobu is Araragi's daughter.
That does not sound right. It would make more sense if Shinobu is Meme's sister instead since he bounded her to his family. From there, we can then deduce Ougi's relationship with Shinobu through this.
>If Ougi is Meme's niece and Shinobu is his only sister then Ougi is Shinobu's daughter.
If we combine that to this
>Ougi is Araragi's daughter
then we could deduce it further to this
>If Ougi is Araragi & Shinobu's daughter.
Hitagi would be furious if she finds out.

>Meme gives Shinobu Oshino his surname, technically making her his adopted sister
>Shinobu Oshino "gives birth" to Ougi Oshino, Gaen clarifies that Ougi's surname comes from Shinobu
>Which technically makes Ougi Oshino Meme's niece
Nisio played us like a damn fiddle

>Energy taken from Kanbaru (technically Tooe I suppose)
It is like saying, that the hamburger that I ate 10yrs ago is still a part of me until today. Energy is just energy. In the case of Tooe, Kanbaru & Tsubasa, it was just their life force (vitality or strength). For example, Kanbaru just felt exhausted after she was energy drained. It's not like a piece of their soul has been mixed into the gene pool. Gaen did not even went that far. The most that she could say is that Ougi is hybrid of all the oddities in the town.

>The Araragi = Ougi thing is considerably more accurate and Gaen says
Araragi thought the same too and then the darkness immediately came to disagree. Even Ougi admitting defeat implies that she is not Araragi Koyomi. That was the trap and the main purpose of their confrontation. To reveal who is the real Ararargi Koyomi. The one who is pretending to be Araragi Koyomi will be swallowed by the darkness. It is as Ougi said, she was fighting a losing battle.

>Ougi being akin to his daughter has set waifufag senses on fire evidently.
Araragi sees Ougi as a six months old infant meant to be protected. That is not a metaphor, that is what he believes Ougi really is. We never heard those words said to Kako or Neko.

Ougi has many moms

>Meme gives Shinobu Oshino his surname, technically making her his adopted sister
I think that is the same case with Yozuru kagenui and Yotsugi Ononoki. Kagenui just bounded Ononoki with a single character (余) and yet she is reluctant to say what her relationship to Ononoki really is. It is like what Karen said, Kagenui dont want to tell so she made a condition that is impossible to comply with. We can only guess why but the best answer to that is she does not want to tell that it is a sisterly relationship.Regardless, she has no problem with Ononoki calling her big sister.

>No Hitagi! Don't do that!
>Just think about Kaiki and you will feel much better.
>Think about happy thoughts when you and Kaiki are together.
>That's it. You are doing great!

>It is like saying, that the hamburger that I ate 10yrs ago is still a part of me until today.
No it isn't, because how Ougi was created isn't comparable to what you're saying at all.

>Araragi thought the same too and then the darkness immediately came to disagree.
That's not why the darkness showed up. Once Ougi's cover as Meme's neice showed up, the Darkness showed up to wipe her contradictory existence out. You don't have to take Araragi's words for it, Gaen says the same thing but you're arbitrarily ignoring parts of her explanation for some reason.

>The most that she could say is that Ougi is hybrid of all the oddities in the town.
That's what I'm saying. She's not his & Shinobu's daughter. She's a physical combination of a bunch of things, with the main thing that defines her being Araragi's need for self-criticism. As far as Shinobu is concerned it's the same as Rainy Devil's energy and Seishiro's energy being involved in Ougi's creation.

We've had Ougi Dark translated for a while now but no one had these misunderstandings you're spinning until the anime happened, all the same lines you're spinning were there in that translation too. I don't really get why it's only happening now.

The entire point of the Araragi and Ougi confrontation and what Araragi then does *was* that Ougi is Araragi. Gaen, Araragi and even Ougi herself explains this in detail. The Darkness shows up because of this fact. Over and over again Araragi goes on about saving himself in that scene on top of that, it's the conclusion of his character arc throuhout Owari.
Batfags are reaching Crabfag levels of trying to rewrite the plot to fit what they want to happen nowadays.

I want a side story showing a life of the Occult club senpais. It would be super cool to see them in college.

>ougifags won in the end

I want Ougi sit sit her slender abberition butt on my face

>No it isn't
So you would rather believe that Ougi has lots of mothers - Kanbaru, Tooe,Tsubasa & every female human that Kiss-shot/Shinobu consumed and/or energy drained. That is really logical.

>That's what I'm saying. She's not his & Shinobu's daughter.
What is the big deal with this anyway?! Everything points to this technicality and it does not really contradict the plot or premise. It is more logical to simply say that Ougi is the offspring of Shinobu & Araragi rather than say that Ougi is literally composed of tons of oddities and humans. Why do we need to give "energy" names. This energy is the "first", this oddity A, ... this oddity Z, this human A, ... Human Z. Everything is just one big lump of "energy" and it is insane to categories/separate them. We could actually write in in a simple formula
>Shinobu*X+Araragi*Y+Energy*Z=Ougi
Energy there is the "bunch of things" you were talking about. Araragi*Y is Araragi's self-criticism and Shinobu*X is a portion of Shinobu's power.
>I don't really get why it's only happening now.
Probably because people was able to read it lots of time and the more they read the more things got clean and obvious. Things like that happens. We could not see stuff that are purposely hidden on your first read/watch.

>this whole thread
What's with the shitstorm? Nobody's talking about Ougi being someone's actual "daughter". It's just that technically Araragi's mind-boner, being one with Shinobu, pierced her ghastly energy-vagina that was triggered by previously consumed ghastly non-personified oddity energy and birthed Ougi. The power of two oddities together made another oddity. Gaen literally explain it like that. So, I guess technically you can call her their daughter.
>m-muh DNA
Personified oddity energy has DNA, proven by Shinobumonogatari

Decent subs when?

>Once Ougi's cover as Meme's neice showed up, the Darkness showed up to wipe her contradictory existence out.
As if the darkness does not know that already. The darkness is absolute, nothing can escape it and nothing can defeat it.You have no choice but to follow the rules or be swallowed by it. What you are saying is going against that premise. The darkness there is like the all seeing eye of god in the world of oddities. Your are giving too much credit to Ougi and giving too little to darkness at the same time. The darkness is not aware?! For real?

>Araragi: Hey Darkness-san you miss a spot there. Come out come come out wherever you are.
>Darkness: Who is calling me?
>Araragi: It is me Araragi. You see Ougi was lying to you the whole time and is pretending to be Meme-san's niece but she was actually me all along!
>Darkness: Opps Sorry! Silly me! Thanks! I'll swallow that liar this instant.
>Araragi: No Darkness-san, I change my mind! I don't want you to swallow her.
>Darkness: That is not possible because rules are rules. She lied!
>Araragi: Ouch my arms!
>Meme: Darkness-kun! Darkness-kun!
>Darkness: Oh it is you Meme-Kun. What is it?
>Meme: Well you see, she is actually my niece. Would be kind enough to leave her be and you go away?
>Darkness: Sorry Meme-Kun! I did not know! I was sure that someone told me that she lied before. It must have been my imagination. Sorry again Meme-Kun!
>Araragi: That was close! Thank you Meme-san. We almost got swallowed there.
>Meme: Don't worry about that! Darkness-kun is just too gullible, it is not your fault.
>Araragi: You are right. I can't believe Darkness-san actually believed everything we said without questioning.

kanbaru was included in the mix

It's Araragi and Kanbaru's daughter you deluded batfag. Gaen Even said that Ougi was like the Rainy Devil and Ougi also doesn't even interact with Shinobu and latches onto Kanbaru after Araragi leaves.

Seek help autist

But user, Gaen also EXPLICITLY states that she's Ragi and Shinobu's joint production
also
>monkeyfags

>Kanbaru
Sorry anons! It was just this "mysterious chemical X". Nisio probably likes the power puff girls. That is why he added power puff girls parody in addition to dragonballz.

>autist
She really needs a professional to help her.

But you are wrong, and this user was right :

> Basically, the last name ‘Oshino’ doesn’t come from Meme Oshino, but from Shinobu Oshino. If you take into consideration that you and Shinobu Oshino are essentially one in body and soul, you could consider Ougi Oshino to be your joint production.

Shinobu is the one that consumed all oddities, Shinobu is the one that has all those powers, that is where Ougi gets them from. Koyomi created Ougi, but Shinobu is the source of Ougi's powers.

Any of the other names in the chain, rainy devil, seishiro, any other oddity, is purely because Shinobu consumed them, if she had not, Ougi would not have had those powers.

Read the LNs.