Illinois Bishop Bans Sen. Dick Durbin from Receiving Holy Communion over His Pro-Abortion Stance

Lincoln Gutierrez
Lincoln Gutierrez

Bishop Thomas J. Paprocki of Springfield, Illinois, says that Senator Dick Durbin (D-IL) is “cooperating in evil” and persisting in “manifest grave sin” because of his abortion advocacy and must therefore “not be admitted to Holy Communion until he repents of his sin.

The bishop’s statement followed on a recent procedural vote on a bill that would have outlawed abortion after 20 weeks into pregnancy, a bill that Durbin supported.

Of the 24 U.S. senators who identify as Catholic, 14 voted against the bill, despite the fact that it directly contradicts Catholic teaching regarding the sacredness of innocent human life and the evil of abortion.

The names of the 14 Catholic senators who voted against the 20-week abortion ban are:
Dick Durbin (D-Illinois)
Claire McCaskill (D-Missouri)
Heidi Heitkamp (D-North Dakota)
Kirsten Gillibrand (D-New York)
Patty Murray (D-Washington)
Maria Cantwell (D-Washington)
Catherine Cortez Masto (D-Nevada)
Tim Kaine (D-Virginia)
Jack Reed (D-Rhode Island)
Patrick Leahy (D-Vermont)
Ed Markey (D-Massachusetts)
Bob Menendez (D-New Jersey)
Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska)
Susan Collins (R-Maine)

breitbart.com/big-government/2018/02/23/illinois-bishop-bans-sen-dick-durbin-from-receiving-holy-communion-over-his-pro-abortion-stance/

lifenews.com/2018/02/22/catholic-bishop-denies-communion-to-pro-abortion-democrat-sen-dick-durbin-until-he-repents-of-his-sin/

All urls found in this thread:

breitbart.com/big-government/2018/02/23/illinois-bishop-bans-sen-dick-durbin-from-receiving-holy-communion-over-his-pro-abortion-stance/
lifenews.com/2018/02/22/catholic-bishop-denies-communion-to-pro-abortion-democrat-sen-dick-durbin-until-he-repents-of-his-sin/
dio.org/communications/press-releases/423-statement-from-bishop-paprocki-on-senate-failure-to-pass-pain-capable-unborn-childrens-act.html
therealpresence.org/eucharst/book/dctrine2.htm
ewtn.com/expert/answers/sspx_fssp.htm
churchmilitant.com/news/article/springfield-bishop-rebukes-abp.-blase-cupich-his-notion-of-conscience
lifenews.com/2013/05/07/pope-francis-pro-abortion-politicians-ineligible-for-communion/
pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/pope-francis-holds-first-meeting-with-abuse-victims/
lanuovabq.it/it/barros-la-lettera-choc-che-smentisce-il-papa#.WnyNm8J3sno.twitter
bostonglobe.com/metro/2018/01/19/pope-francis-company-man/kfE0f7wFLDuMN2Uqg2hbQL/story.html
catholicherald.co.uk/news/2018/01/15/abortion-campaigner-says-she-is-very-honoured-by-pontifical-award/
catholicherald.co.uk/news/2017/06/17/head-of-vatican-pro-life-academy-defends-appointment-of-nigel-biggar/
w2.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/apost_letters/1988/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_19880815_mulieris-dignitatem.html
lifesitenews.com/news/breaking-bishop-paprocki-bars-pro-abortion-sen.-durbin-from-communion-until
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a3.htm
youtube.com/watch?v=A-5B54wXgI4

Asher Gray
Asher Gray

When I was in Catholic school I took a Eucharist from Mass, hid it in my pocket, and then threw it in a urinal and pissed on it, which technically renders me excommunicated.

Carter Martin
Carter Martin

How much pussy did you slay being that edgy?

Asher Roberts
Asher Roberts

Why?

Easton Hall
Easton Hall

It's about damn time the Catholic bishops start excommunicating the pro abortion Democrats

David Davis
David Davis

I was an edgy atheist.

Not much.

Jonathan Scott
Jonathan Scott

Pretty fucking blasphemous. I can't imagine devoting this much energy and obsession towards something I hate.

Dylan Ross
Dylan Ross

Reconciliation

Ian Howard
Ian Howard

It's time to repent

Christopher Bailey
Christopher Bailey

It still doesn't make sense though, if God isn't real you just peed on a cracker. Why bother?

James Thompson
James Thompson

You must be 18 to post here, Jayden.

Bentley Young
Bentley Young

this is the first non-faggotry from the Catholic church I've seen in years
edge, user

Michael Nguyen
Michael Nguyen

Good. It’s time for the “church of nice” to back up and return to pre-Vat II days.

Aaron Ward
Aaron Ward

Planned Parenthood is a temple for moloch

Angel Russell
Angel Russell

I've got one as well.
Basically when I was receiving communion one time I forgot to say the word "Amen" and the church bitch wouldn't let go of the body of Christ until I said it. However, I had already put my hands out and started to close them. This was essentially a tug of war with the body of Christ. It then broke and I took my part feeling pissed why she just didn't give me the whole thing.

Christian Hall
Christian Hall

I'm not proud of it.

I do feel bad about it, but I couldn't imagine how mortifying confessing it would be.

"psssh...nothin personnel...kid..."

implying

Christian Jenkins
Christian Jenkins

Statement from Bishop Thomas John Paprocki on Senate Failure to Pass Pain-Capable Unborn Children’s Act

"...Fourteen Catholic senators voted against the bill that would have prohibited abortions starting at 20 weeks after fertilization, including Sen. Richard Durbin, whose residence is in the Diocese of Springfield in Illinois. In April 2004, Sen. Durbin’s pastor, then Msgr. Kevin Vann (now Bishop Kevin Vann of Orange, CA), said that he would be reticent to give Sen. Durbin Holy Communion because his pro-abortion position put him outside of communion or unity with the Church’s teachings on life. My predecessor, now Archbishop George Lucas of Omaha, said that he would support that decision. I have continued that position.

Canon 915 of the Catholic Church’s Code of Canon Law states that those “who obstinately persist in manifest grave sin are not to be admitted to Holy Communion.” In our 2004 Statement on Catholics in Political Life, the USCCB said, “Failing to protect the lives of innocent and defenseless members of the human race is to sin against justice. Those who formulate law therefore have an obligation in conscience to work toward correcting morally defective laws, lest they be guilty of cooperating in evil and in sinning against the common good.” Because his voting record in support of abortion over many years constitutes “obstinate persistence in manifest grave sin,” the determination continues that Sen. Durbin is not to be admitted to Holy Communion until he repents of this sin. This provision is intended not to punish, but to bring about a change of heart. Sen. Durbin was once pro-life. I sincerely pray that he will repent and return to being pro-life."

dio.org/communications/press-releases/423-statement-from-bishop-paprocki-on-senate-failure-to-pass-pain-capable-unborn-childrens-act.html

Dylan Reyes
Dylan Reyes

You have to be 18 to post here faggot

Dominic Miller
Dominic Miller

Is the Catholic Church regrowing a spine?

Zachary Anderson
Zachary Anderson

how mortifying NOT confessing it would be

God WANTS to forgive sin
seek forgiveness, mercy and peace in the sacrament of Reconciliation user

Owen Cruz
Owen Cruz

The reaction is coming it seems to me. Even among the more liberal Catholics there seems to be a consensus that things have gone too far. Amoris Laetitia was the first straw; then Francis' defence of Barros and Karadima in spite of the mountains of evidence of abuse; then the betrayal of the "underground" Church in China and the capitulation to the ChiComs; and, most recently, the push in Germany lead by Marx to bless sodomitical "unions". The rug has been pulled out from people and they're lost, confused, and frustrated, even though these people are 50 years late to the party.

Now if my own diocese grew a pair and started hammering down on these unrepentant abortionists and homosexualists, I could at least find some comfort.

Joshua Watson
Joshua Watson

It's not as mortifying as hell user.
Priest will be glad to talk with and council you. He wants the best for you so will be merciful and kind in hearing your sins.
Seriously the Church used to only give confession once in a mans life. Now you can go to Church anywhere so long as you're baptized and receive the sacrament to be reconciled to God's Church. Very merciful.

Also man up, definition of effeminacy is refusal or unwillingness to do something good on account of wanting to avoid the suffering that comes with it.

Justin Butler
Justin Butler

Based bishop

Jaxon Hill
Jaxon Hill

How can you even be Catholic and support abortion. It's been the stance of the Church from the beginning.

Aaron Lewis
Aaron Lewis

Just say "Amen" next time little fickle faggot autist.
hur i did it wrong but its not myself
I would have whipped you in the mouth with a ruler.

Jackson Jenkins
Jackson Jenkins

Quite simply, the people pushing abortion within the Church, much as the people who are pushing homosexuality (who are even more dangerous and flagrant, in my view), are subversives. I can only guess that they have not an ounce of faith in God or the Church, and care only about transforming the Church to fit their own subjective reality. Precisely why Amoris Laetitia is such an awful, indefensible thing. It is fundamentally subversive of the Church's entire moral theology, and a direct attack on the Moral Law.

"Personally opposed to, but..." is also no argument, and no excuse.

Adam Reyes
Adam Reyes

Fuck that apostate following cuck.

Colton Gray
Colton Gray

So how do we convince the damn bishops to get rid of Francis?

Logan Robinson
Logan Robinson

receiving communion on the hand
You fucked up

Luke Jones
Luke Jones

By rallying around our orthodox prelates and priests. Men like Bp. Athanasius Schneider, for example. Stop attending the NOM, and if you have to attend then place not a single penny on the collection plate.

It's also important to remember that Francis is only a single cell in a cancerous tumor. Getting rid of France will not fix the issue, which is essentially the silent apostasy referred to by JPII (who himself wasn't much better) and the heresy of modernism. These things predated Francis and will also outlive him.

But, personally, I'm with the Venerable Fulton Sheen. I don't think for a second that any return to tradition in orthodoxy is going to come from clerics. It's going to come from the laity.

Caleb Carter
Caleb Carter

I hope so. There are so many cucktholics and Mexicans in my parish though.

Matthew Turner
Matthew Turner

Our bad leaders is our chastisement from Christ.

Jacob Williams
Jacob Williams

Yes, I also think that's the case. There's a clear connection between Fatima and the revelations of St. Margaret Mary Alacoque, through whom Christ warned France what would happen if they did not repent and make satisfaction for their sins, and if the King did not consecrate his Kingdom to the Sacred Heart. God has handed us to our enemies as He did to the Jews many times for our wickedness.

SSPX or FSSP - look for a parish in your area.

Jack Jones
Jack Jones

Having defined what takes place in transubstantiation, the Council of Trent identifies the extent of this presence. Christ is literally present wherever the physical properties remain of what had been bread and wine. Says Trent, "If anyone denies that in the venerable Sacrament of the Eucharist the whole Christ is contained under each of the species and under every portion of either species when it is divided up, let him be anathema." (Session 13, can.3)

The key word here is "species". The Eucharistic species are the physical properties of what used to be bread and wine before transubstantiation - the species are what is sensibly perceptible in the Holy Eucharist. The species are the size, texture, taste and weight of what was formerly bread and wine.

What does the Church tell us about the species? She infallibly teaches that the entire Christ is entirely present in every particle of the consecrated host and in every drop of what looks and tastes like wine. In the whole Host, Christ is there. Broken in half, Christ is in both parts. Even a single particle contains the whole living Christ.

We are also told that the whole Christ is fully and equally present in either species, so we do not have to receive under both forms. A single drop in the chalice after consecration contains the whole Christ.

therealpresence.org/eucharst/book/dctrine2.htm

Bentley Myers
Bentley Myers

You're only hurting yourself with that kind of disrespect

Thomas Nelson
Thomas Nelson

Kekd and checked

Cooper Turner
Cooper Turner

How the fuck do Lisa Murkowski and Susan Collins even claim to be a Republican.

Thomas Adams
Thomas Adams

background/standing info on sspx & fssp

ewtn.com/expert/answers/sspx_fssp.htm

Anthony Reed
Anthony Reed

Pope Francis: Pro-Abortion Politicians Ineligible for Communion

A 2013 letter from Pope Francis says pro-abortion politicians should not be eligible for communion in the Catholic Church.

In the letter, Pope Francis directed the Argentinean bishops to govern the Church there following the Aparecida Document.

The text states, in part, “[people] cannot receive Holy Communion and at the same time act with deeds or words against the commandments, particularly when abortion, euthanasia, and other grave crimes against life and family are encouraged. This responsibility weighs particularly over legislators, heads of governments, and health professionals.”

“These are the guidelines we need for this time in history,” the pope wrote to the bishops.

Owen Davis
Owen Davis

abortion is nigger population control, why would you want it gone?

Jace Diaz
Jace Diaz

"SPRINGFIELD, Ill. (ChurchMilitant.com) - In a rare move, the bishop of Springfield, Illinois is publicly correcting fellow Illinois prelate Abp. Blase Cupich of Chicago and his false notion of "conscience."

In a letter to the editor published over the weekend in The State Journal-Register, Bp. Thomas Paprocki responded to a local dissenting Catholic who had praised Abp. Cupich for his erroneous remarks about Holy Communion.

"Individuals must form their consciences in accord with Church teaching. Conscience assesses how a person's concrete action in a given situation accords with Church teaching — not to determine whether one agrees with or accepts Church teaching in the first place." "
churchmilitant.com/news/article/springfield-bishop-rebukes-abp.-blase-cupich-his-notion-of-conscience

Cooper Hughes
Cooper Hughes

Well, I like Francis on this at least.

Samuel Scott
Samuel Scott

Are there any other intredasting Poles in the US?

Christian Carter
Christian Carter

Huh a church official actually taking a hard stance on a basic principle.

Connor Williams
Connor Williams

Thank God for Pope John Paul II & Saint Faustina Kowalska

Alexander Anderson
Alexander Anderson

Fair and defensible enough theologically. I'd like to have seen the same be done for the Iraq war, and now for continuing support for Saudi Arabia's Yemen war, etc.

Sebastian Sanchez
Sebastian Sanchez

this is exactly what the church should be doing all the time

Levi Kelly
Levi Kelly

The Catholic Church can't do the same for wars since abortion is a much less negotiable subject than whether you support a particular war is

Lucas Roberts
Lucas Roberts

Pope Francis: Pro-Abortion Politicians Ineligible for Communion
(1/2)

A letter Pope Francis sent to the bishops of Argentina in late March is getting note from a pro-life Catholic group that says it is encouraging for pro-life advocates because it says pro-abortion politicians should not be eligible for communion in the Catholic Church.

In the letter, Pope Francis directed the Argentinean bishops to govern the Church there following the Aparecida Document.

The text states, in part, “[people] cannot receive Holy Communion and at the same time act with deeds or words against the commandments, particularly when abortion, euthanasia, and other grave crimes against life and family are encouraged. This responsibility weighs particularly over legislators, heads of governments, and health professionals.”

“These are the guidelines we need for this time in history,” the pope wrote to the bishops.

Judie Brown, president of American Life League, a U.S.-based pro-life group, and Michael Hichborn, director of Defend the Faith for American Life League, sent a letter to all U.S. Catholic bishops alerting them to what Pope Francis wrote.

“We are renewed in our joy over the election of Pope Francis. One of the reasons for our happiness is the Holy Father’s reiteration of Catholic teaching as enunciated in canon 915,” the letter reads.

“We pray that these words will be an encouragement to you as well because, like Argentina, the United States has her share of Catholics in public life who persist in their support of abortion while, at the same time, receiving Christ in the sacrament of Holy Eucharist,” it continues. “We write to ask you, in view of this recent news report, to act on Pope Francis’ call and deny the sacrament of Christ’s real presence-body, blood, soul, and divinity-to every pro-abortion Catholic in public life who has not repented of his support for the heinous crime of abortion.”

Brody Young
Brody Young

Pope Benedict is /our pope/

David Long
David Long

pic related, eternal jude is watching you
Good goy

Eli Anderson
Eli Anderson

(2/2)

The communion issue was exacerbated when, despite their pro-abortion views, Vice President Joe Biden and House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi both received communion at the Mass to celebrate Pope Francis’ inauguration. Biden’s office confirmed to the Washington Times that he had received communion and reporters in the White House presidential reporting pool confirmed in an email to LifeNews that Pelosi had received it as well. Pope Francis did not administer the sacrament.

Father Frank Pavone told the LifeNews he opposed the two pro-abortion politicos receiving communion since their pro-abortion views are outside the teachings of the Catholic Church.

The Priests for Life leader said, “At a Mass during which our new Pope emphasized the duty public officials – and all the rest of us – have to protect the weakest among us, Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi have the audacity to receive Communion while publicly renouncing their responsibility to protect the weakest among us.”

“Some Church leaders mistakenly think we are advocating the use of the Eucharist as a ‘weapon.’ In fact, we are defending the Eucharist from being used as a political tool. These politicians have no respect for what the Eucharist means: an integral, consistent union with Christ and with all our brothers and sisters. To receive Christ while rejecting the unborn is a slap in the face to both,” he added.

lifenews.com/2013/05/07/pope-francis-pro-abortion-politicians-ineligible-for-communion/

Levi Brooks
Levi Brooks

Seriously the Church used to only give confession once in a mans life
Wait, really?
Deathbed confessionals only?
Guess people wanted to hedge their bets against accidental death

Jonathan Sanders
Jonathan Sanders

Would love to see the R's take back one of the Illinois senate seats like they did a few years back.

Connor Ward
Connor Ward

Dude, I elected to forego the divider and stand face to face with the Father, on his request, and ask forgiveness before his ancient face for coming multiple times in a man's asshole, among many other various and sundry acts. I believe in God. I know I fucked up. You must confess to rejoin true communion with the Church.

Noah Johnson
Noah Johnson

I think you need to understand that the Pope is essentially a Peronist in his worldview. He says one thing out of one side of his mouth and says another out of the other side, or says one thing and does another.

Take, for instance, his 2014 meeting with victims of clerical abuse. "All bishops must carry out their pastoral ministry with the utmost care in order to help foster the protection of minors [...] and they will be held accountable."

pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/pope-francis-holds-first-meeting-with-abuse-victims/

Strangely, not even a year after this, Francis decided to appoint Juan Barros as bishop of Osorno, against the recommendation of the CDF and in spite of widespread protests among locals of Osorno.

lanuovabq.it/it/barros-la-lettera-choc-che-smentisce-il-papa#.WnyNm8J3sno.twitter

If we then jump to 2018, we see Francis defending Barros and claiming that there is no evidence of abuse. Not only that, he accuses the accusers of Barros of calumny and slander, even though their testimony was used in court.

bostonglobe.com/metro/2018/01/19/pope-francis-company-man/kfE0f7wFLDuMN2Uqg2hbQL/story.html

On the issue of abortion, it might be worth considering that one of the chief abortionists in Europe, Lilianne Ploumen, was made Dame of the Order of St. Gregory the Great by the Vatican. Did Francis object? Not that I've heard.

catholicherald.co.uk/news/2018/01/15/abortion-campaigner-says-she-is-very-honoured-by-pontifical-award/

Brandon Allen
Brandon Allen

coming multiple times in a man's asshole

I hope this wasn't the exact wording. You're not usually supposed to be too explicit. Confessing the nature and of the act is usually sufficient, and doesn't risk tempting or disgusting the listener.

Benjamin Clark
Benjamin Clark

nature and species*

I remember typing species out, don't know how it got deleted.

Ryan Morgan
Ryan Morgan

I'll try to just post this once.

I was an alter server for nearly a decade.
I attended Catholic school from kindergarten until senior year of high school in a very active diocease in the suburbs of a major US city.

Catholicism has adherents who are hypocritical, misogynistic, racist, impolite bullies.

However, many clergy I would argue are incredibly apolitical and just like the fact that they don't pay taxes and get to be a healing presence in people's times of need.

They are pretty much social workers who believe certain (supernatural) things as "T"ruth and "T"radition, but that stuff is in many cases (for better or worse) secondary to the general altruism that many Catholic clergy profess and partake in.

The super technical, rigid, strict clergy tend not to be liked by typical parishioners because those clergy may be inconsiderate in other aspects of being a pastor to a parish.

Anyway, there is CULTURAL Catholicism and RELIGIOUS Catholicism...

CULTURAL Catholicism includes:
- the Kennedy family
- Georgetown, Notre Dame, Villanova, Fordham, Boston College, etc. (the Jesuits)
- Democrats who descended from discriminated Irish and Italians.

these Democrats feel that allowing a woman to choose to abort based on her circumstances is Merciful, in line with Catholic social teaching.
The fetus is not yet viable, so it cannot constitute a "LEGAL" life. The important point is separating LEGAL and RELIGIOUS... To conflate the two generally destroys a democratic, capitalist civil society.

RELIGIOUS Catholicism has to do with believing in the Trinity, Transubstantiation, and following Canon Law verbatim.

Levi Baker
Levi Baker

By rallying around our orthodox prelates and priests. Men like Bp. Athanasius Schneider, for example. Stop attending the NOM, and if you have to attend then place not a single penny on the collection plate.
Eh, my parish pastor is, so far as I know, a pretty damn good guy. He's there to shepherd us spiritually, and he is a theological purist. I have no problem supporting the efforts of the church.

Now the lay leadership and even some of the parish diaconate border on blasphemous at times. I had a deacon teach with authority that it was okay for two people, widowed and widower, to have an unmarried affair; that "if you act with love in a non-harmful way" there was no reason to stop doing what you were and that you hadn't sinned. There is also resentful sentiment towards the male only priesthood.

James Sanders
James Sanders

Kike btfo

Landon Lee
Landon Lee

I think you need to understand that the Pope is essentially a Peronist in his worldview. He says one thing out of one side of his mouth and says another out of the other side, or says one thing and does another.

I disagree with that claim user.

Your examples are individual, particular decisions which deserve appropriate scrutiny and redress in context but don't necessarily amount to your claim of Pope Francis being a peronist in his worldview.

Appropriate scrutiny and redress of particular decisions is due in certain circumstances, including some of the examples you listed.

Alexander Walker
Alexander Walker

I would turn that accusation back on you. Have you scrutinised the article you posted? Have you measured what Francis has said against what he has done? Have you judged the tree by its fruit?

I see no crackdown whatever on abortionists coming from on high. If the Ploumen affair is not sufficient to raise your eyebrows, I wonder if the appointment of abortionist Nigel Biggar to the Pontifical Academy for Life (oh, the irony) serves?

catholicherald.co.uk/news/2017/06/17/head-of-vatican-pro-life-academy-defends-appointment-of-nigel-biggar/

An appointment, as it happens, approved by Francis himself. So, what is the logic here? Abortionist politicians are not worthy (rightly so) of receiving Communion, but they are worthy to sit at the table of the PAL? Or must we more carefully scrutanise this as well?

Blake Nelson
Blake Nelson

Catholicism has adherents who are misogynistic, racist, impolite bullies.
Good.

Jayden Long
Jayden Long

Catholicism has adherents who are hypocritical, misogynistic, racist, impolite bullies.

Your personal experience is not representative of most Catholics user.

there is CULTURAL Catholicism and RELIGIOUS Catholicism

that distinction is heretical as you have presented it user

A Catholic cannot adhere to any position contrary to Church teaching

Your attempt at a cultural - religious distinction seems like a shameful attempt to try to justify a Catholic not adhering to Church teaching

Jason Walker
Jason Walker

if you get out of the Vestibule, you'll recognize that all Popes have been racially white, and that women are disempowered... How can you justify that?

Asher Scott
Asher Scott

Zbigniew

Julian King
Julian King

DEUS

Samuel Richardson
Samuel Richardson

don't falsely accuse me user

again, appropriate scrutiny and redress of particular decisions is due in certain circumstances, including some of the examples you listed

Chase Cruz
Chase Cruz

Also, if you'd recognize my credibility from having been involved in Catholic educational settings as well as in being involved in Alter serving.

You would recognize that diversity is not emphasized enough by many lay religious organizations. Or any lay religious groups such as Knights of Columbus tend to be islamophobic and culturally insensitive.

Even as the Catholic Church grows in Latin America, Asia, and Africa.

Many lay adherents in the West will insist upon a Eurocentric worldview, that marginalizes and deligitimizes cultural customs from those parts of the world.

If Catholicism is going to be truly, "catholic" as in universal. It MUST shed a strictly Euro-centric worldview or risk irrelevance.

Samuel Richardson
Samuel Richardson

Women can be nuns if they want a place in the clergy, and the Virgin Mary is of great importance to Catholics

Suck a dick, faggot

Parker Howard
Parker Howard

Nice bait mate.

Aiden Jones
Aiden Jones

You see what your prejudice and bias has made you.
Would Jesus be proud of your anger at recognizing that Catholicism should not be an appendage of Euro-centric oppression?

Connor Clark
Connor Clark

all Popes have been racially white
what are you claiming user?

women are disempowered
that claim is erroneous

Read the encyclical:

Pope John Paul II
Mulieris dignitatem (On The Dignity And Vocation Of Women)

w2.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/apost_letters/1988/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_19880815_mulieris-dignitatem.html

Ian Harris
Ian Harris

Virgin Mary has been put on a pedestal that whitewashes what sort of challenges bias and prejudice have in women having equal power as men in Catholic hierarchy.

Also, many nuns are subject to the Bishop, who clearly is always a man.

In order for the Catholic Church to survive it can't be misogynistic. And relegating women to nuns who don't have any real responsibility but to ask for money before the closing prayer and to teach children English or Math, then you'll have a real problem.

You can't hide behind a complex set of beliefs to justify bias and prejudice, because that same bias and prejudice you direct to others will eventually consume you... which may or may not be worse than eternity in hell.

William Reed
William Reed

Even Francis is against abortions dude. It's like the number 1 Catholic stance.

Parker Stewart
Parker Stewart

only republicans that voted no were female

Aaron Reed
Aaron Reed

The racist assumption that many racist Catholics will support is that a non-white or a woman is INHERENTLY incapable of being a Pope. So you tell me, "user", what non-white Cardinal is qualified to be Pope... that African cardinal who talks about sovereignty all the time?

Your interpretation of Power is clearly warped. So God is a white male, and Jesus is a white male. So, white males are HOLIER than non-white, non-males?

Brandon Scott
Brandon Scott

In order for the Catholic Church to survive it must stay faithful to the teachings of Jesus Christ, and not the fads of men

Lincoln Perry
Lincoln Perry

Repent

John Baker
John Baker

Look, this is a Catholic thread, not an Episcopalian thread ok

Dylan Myers
Dylan Myers

What Jesus teaches is still debated to this day. Even if you entrust the Catholic Church to interpret and administer Dogma. It is unjustifiable to not recognize inherent prejudices and biases in the mechanisms of the Church's structure, especially in regards to the role of women and non-whites in interpretation of "the teachings of Jesus Christ".

you can't treat the Catholic Church as some old-boy network of mutual favors and oppression, otherwise that is being hypocritical in that you are using "faith" as a means to justify oppression.

Nathan Gray
Nathan Gray

I thought Catholic bishops weren't allowed to issue fatwas against politicians for how they vote anymore -- it kinda lost fashion since the invasion of Iraq.

Jace Mitchell
Jace Mitchell

Daily reminder that protestants are heretics

Caleb White
Caleb White

you need to be burned

Owen Flores
Owen Flores

diversity is not emphasized enough
A vocation within the Church is a calling from God, and is not a matter of social engineering from man

Knights of Columbus tend to be islamophobic and culturally insensitive.

your personal experience is not representative of most Catholics user

a eurocentric worldview that marginalizes and delegitimizes cultural customs from those parts of the world
that claim is false and is not reflected in any Church teaching user

Jose Richardson
Jose Richardson

the racist assumption that many racist Catholics will support
presuming Catholics are racist is a false accusation

a woman is inherently incapable of being a Pope
A woman cannot by nature as created by God be ordained

so God is a white male, and Jesus is a white male. So, white males are HOLIER than non-white, non-males?

The Church does not teach that user

Dylan Gray
Dylan Gray

I used to be anti-abortion/pro-life, until I found out that mostly blacks get them.

Now I think they should be cheaper and more efficient, maybe even a home kit could be made available.

Andrew Sullivan
Andrew Sullivan

inherent prejudices and biases in the the mechanisms of the Church's structure, especially in regards to the role of women and non-whites in interpretation of "the teachings of Jesus Christ"
some old-boy network of mutual favors and oppression
using "faith" as a means to justify oppression

Those claims are erroneous and are not reflected in Church teaching

Nathan Rivera
Nathan Rivera

direct abortion is inherently evil

Thomas Cox
Thomas Cox

Durbin was one of the senators who came under fire for asking a Trump judicial nominee questions that some scholars said violate the Constitution’s prohibition on a religious test for public officials.

“When you read your speeches, the conclusion one draws is that the dogma lives loudly within you,” Sen. Diane Feinstein, D-CA, told Amy Coney Barrett.

Durbin joined in Feinstein’s questioning, asking Barrett, “Do you consider yourself an orthodox Catholic?”

He boasted of being the product of 19 years of Catholic education, but then admitted, “every once in a while Holy Mother the Church has not agreed with a vote of mine, uh, and has let me know.”

Bishop Paprocki cited the USCCB’s 2004 statement on Catholics in Political Life, which says, “Failing to protect the lives of innocent and defenseless members of the human race is to sin against justice. Those who formulate law therefore have an obligation in conscience to work toward correcting morally defective laws, lest they be guilty of cooperating in evil and in sinning against the common good.”

lifesitenews.com/news/breaking-bishop-paprocki-bars-pro-abortion-sen.-durbin-from-communion-until

Austin Richardson
Austin Richardson

God WANTS to forgive sin
what stops him? omnipotent and all that ...

Ethan Cooper
Ethan Cooper

Your freedom of will to reject his forgiveness.

Evan Hill
Evan Hill

Your freedom of will to reject his forgiveness.
that's an insurmountable obstacle for an omnipotent being in charge of declaring what is and what is not a rule or an obstacle?

Cooper Walker
Cooper Walker

Yawn. Please read intro theology. There's too much to introduce before this becomes a fruitful conversation. But in short, yes it is. Without knowing the Catholic understanding of free will, choice, and omnipotence it won't make sense.

Ian Sanchez
Ian Sanchez

“When you read your speeches, the conclusion one draws is that the dogma lives loudly within you,” Sen. Diane Feinstein, D-CA, told Amy Coney Barrett.

Feinstein is literally a modern day Palpatine

Josiah Myers
Josiah Myers

I sincerely hope these politicians involved in this issue who publicly present themselves as Catholic do not bring just judgement on themselves for their own actions

Pray for them pol

Anthony Phillips
Anthony Phillips

the catholic "understanding" of it is that both free will and predestination are true and the way their obvious contradiction actually resolves is a "mystery of faith". but I'm not talking about details of free will and you don't even realize it. I am asking what is your take - and I full well know that you can't possibly have a coherent catholic-compatible answer - on the claim that "these are the rules, god can't do anything" when your ilk also thinks god made those rules, in our case, that free will is good even if it excludes some people from heaven? but any other rule would get the same treatment from me: there's no possible reason for an omnipotent being to set up tests and balance benefits like us limited beings do. try to understand what I'm staying and do not hide behind mommy's theology.

Brody Thompson
Brody Thompson

distinction:
absolute will
God can do anything (omnipotent)
ordained will
God does what he wills (providence)

predestination yes
double predestination no

Daniel Wood
Daniel Wood

it's ABOUT FUCKING TIME those fucking pederasts did something

Dominic Sullivan
Dominic Sullivan

You literally just fucked off to Google for 30 minutes to pull something together. This is discussed to death by Aquinas but you wouldn't know that from the shallowness of Wikipedia. You commit an error when you say free will is good. Free will simply is. As a moral agent by definition you are excluding yourself from heaven, God isn't doing it to you. Why is this insurmountable for God? For it to be any other way would be to commit a self-contradicting act, which as discussed in by the Church Father's is impossible even for God. It would be tantamount to removing free will. Otherwise you seem confused about what you're actually getting at. Are you asking why would a God give free will if he loves us?

Levi Price
Levi Price

irrelevant 'distinction': god has absolute will and can't have reasons for his decisions like we do, because our reasons stem from the need to navigate a maze of limitations, but god has no limitations.
so, without just trowing labels at it: god decided to make free will the stumbling block for people out of mere random capriciousness i.e. for no reason at all.

Jason Russell
Jason Russell

god has no limitations

This is patently untrue. No Catholic theologian would unreservedly claim this. The most pressing example is his inability to sin.

Nathan Price
Nathan Price

Fucking hell you faggots, we're supposed to be socialist countries here but we don't allow abortion after 12 weeks unless there's an issue with the child or the life of the mother. Are we more republican on abortion than the US?

Juan Kelly
Juan Kelly

that distinction is important for you to better understand user

God can't have reasons for His decisions
that's not true

again: Divine Providence

free will is a stumbling block
free will is random and capricious
that's not true

free will allows the possibility of Love

David Watson
David Watson

god has absolute will and can't have reasons for his decisions like we do

Wrong, the reasons for God's decisions are rooted in goodwill, also called love or charity.

Camden Foster
Camden Foster

god decided to make free will the stumbling block

No, you decided to make it stumbling block. That's the point of free will.

Elijah Powell
Elijah Powell

direct abortion is a barbaric scourge on humanity

Robert Cooper
Robert Cooper

Pope will let him back in. Fuck we need a new pope.

Dylan Rodriguez
Dylan Rodriguez

Wow. I really admire the honesty of these men. They should excomunicate (((Francis)))

Colton Cox
Colton Cox

free will allows the possibility of Love
so, god could not create the possibility of love without free will? or make it so that love is not needed but replaced with something even better that does not require opening a trap right next to it? and you understand, do you, that saying that god could not or cannot do something means you claim he is not omnipotent?

Henry Watson
Henry Watson

Here's the Catechism on man's freedom and responsibility in the economy of salvation:

In Brief:

"God willed that man should be left in the hand of his own counsel (cf. Sir 15:14), so that he might of his own accord seek his creator and freely attain his full and blessed perfection by cleaving to him" (GS 17 § 1).

Freedom is the power to act or not to act, and so to perform deliberate acts of one's own. Freedom attains perfection in its acts when directed toward God, the sovereign Good.

Freedom characterizes properly human acts. It makes the human being responsible for acts of which he is the voluntary agent. His deliberate acts properly belong to him.

The imputability or responsibility for an action can be diminished or nullified by ignorance, duress, fear, and other psychological or social factors.

The right to the exercise of freedom, especially in religious and moral matters, is an inalienable requirement of the dignity of man. But the exercise of freedom does not entail the putative right to say or do anything.

"For freedom Christ has set us free" (Gal 5:1).

For depth, see link:
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a3.htm

Easton Kelly
Easton Kelly

the reasons for God's decisions are rooted in goodwill
that's to say he made a tule that says goodwill is good, and another one that says he will take this into consideration. but he could not possibly have had a reason for either these decisions or those leading up to them, because completely regardless of what the rule is, 'reason for something' implies we have to take into account limitations. my reason for drinking my coffee without sugar is that I'm health-conscious, limitation: can't just snap my fingers and remove ill effects. my reason for having the heating on is that it is cold outside, limitation: can't make cold not matter or magically warm inside. etc.

Caleb Hernandez
Caleb Hernandez

I went to a Catholic church with a friend as a kid once (Protestant here), and the faggot didn't tell me you needed to say amen before you receive the body of Christ. The priest looked at me like an asshole for a while before asking, "....amen???". Was a pretty awkward experience. Fucking popery shits.

Luis Thomas
Luis Thomas

Most posters on Sup Forums devote a whole lot of energy towards people they hate.

Grayson Bell
Grayson Bell

WE'RE BACK

Leo Lee
Leo Lee

You're a special kind of dumb to not notice the queue of people in front of you saying.

Jace Ross
Jace Ross

non-Catholics don't and shouldn't receive Communion at Catholic Mass

Blake Wright
Blake Wright

god could not create the possibility of love without free will?

It would not be love if it were not freely chosen.

or make it so that love is not needed but replaced with something even better that does not require opening a trap right next to it?

What might this look like? I don't think any such thing is possible.

saying that god could not or cannot do something means you claim he is not omnipotent?

In the Catholic sense the inability to perform what is logically impossible, nor to do what is sinful, is assumed in the claim of omnipotence. If your definition includes the ability to do these things than we are not speaking of the same attribute.

Nolan Clark
Nolan Clark

Why do catholics want more blacks and mexicans?

Legal, cheap and easily accessible abortions are literally your best weapon against white genocide.

Jeremiah Wilson
Jeremiah Wilson

I was 11 and couldn't hear. I didn't know, and specifically asked my friend if there was anything I needed to do, and whether or not it was even appropriate to go. Not my fault.

Jonathan Adams
Jonathan Adams


It still doesn't make sense though, if God isn't real you just peed on a cracker. Why bother?
LOL
atheist logic

Jaxon Brooks
Jaxon Brooks

Abortions have done nothing to the black population but keep them at the same percentage. They've grown just not as quickly. Latinos breed like rodents so you'd literally need to shove abortions down their throats to get anywhere.

Oliver Evans
Oliver Evans

God wills all men be saved user

predestination yes
double predestination no

Dylan Roberts
Dylan Roberts

Not my fault.
Which is why you're anguished about it today :^)

Levi Gutierrez
Levi Gutierrez

Abortions should be mandated for anyone who cant take care of their kids. Saying pro abortion is a sin is such fucking hypocrisy.
Gusse they need more kids to diddle. Desperate times call for desperate measures. Kek

Brayden Powell
Brayden Powell

Good.

Personally, I think their religion is bullshit, but at least they're trying to be consistent about.

You can't look the other way of someone who publicly supports committing a cardinal sin. I hope the church excommunicates all of those convenient Christians.

Luke Edwards
Luke Edwards

now that's edge

Henry Perry
Henry Perry

Abortions should be mandated for anyone who cant take care of their kids.
interesting murderous bloodlust
should the can't take care of kids anyones be executed as well ?

Oliver Richardson
Oliver Richardson

Don't care, your pope is a huge faggot.

Jack Flores
Jack Flores

SSPX

Cooper Richardson
Cooper Richardson

Wait, what? An American bishop behaving like an actual Catholic? I hope he's ready to be excommunicated by the anti-pope.

Daniel Gray
Daniel Gray

novus ordite telling a sede he's a protestant

it's like you've literally never read a word out of the vatican 2 documents

if you apply vatican 2 principles to sede's, and think they're protestants, then it's not a problem, because protestants and orthodox schismatics are within the church and are not outside of salvation

Asher Bell
Asher Bell

Based

Lincoln Morgan
Lincoln Morgan

You're clearly just a political hack who will NEVER, NEVER, vote with morals or intentions for the good of humanity if you're a Catholic and you're voting for abortions.

I'm not saying you shouldn't vote for anyone who is pro choice, but I mean come on, these people clearly exposed themselves as liar and frauds who live their entire lives as lies right here.

Lincoln Fisher
Lincoln Fisher

user pls

Samuel Cox
Samuel Cox

not onyl excommunicated but cursed before God, once you grow old you'll start to worry about that

Gavin Murphy
Gavin Murphy

being this butthurt
wew

Nathan Powell
Nathan Powell

That's smart, you'd be locked up in Catholic jail if you told them. And if you thought being an altar boy was bad, oh boy

Connor Reyes
Connor Reyes

Catholics shouldn't vote for anyone who is pro-aborting children

Easton Harris
Easton Harris

As long as it's just you catholics living with hordes of minorities and single moms, be my guest.

Jordan Anderson
Jordan Anderson

Unitatis redintegratio

For men who believe in Christ and have been truly baptized are in communion with the Catholic Church even though this communion is imperfect. The differences that exist in varying degrees between them and the Catholic Church- whether in doctrine and sometimes in discipline, or concerning the structure of the Church- do indeed create many obstacles, sometimes serious ones, to full ecclesiastical communion. The ecumenical movement is striving to overcome these obstacles. But even in spite of them it remains true that all who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ, and have a right to be called Christian, and so are correctly accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church.

It follows that these separated churches and communities as such, though we believe them to be deficient in some respects, have by no means been deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation whose efficacy comes from that fullness of grace and truth which has been entrusted to the Catholic Church.

Moreover some, and even most, of the significant elements and endowments which together go to build up and give life to the Church itself, can exist outside the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church: the written word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, and visible elements too.

read

do you understand?

Parker Taylor
Parker Taylor

No, you decided to make it stumbling block. That's the point of free will.
the point of free will is that allegedly god made it to be good. then he washed his hands, it was all the human's fault. the implication is that god could not have made the universe in such a way that being a robot is good and having free will is bad, and that's just an example.

Jaxson Morales
Jaxson Morales

Abortion and birth control have killed off or prevented the birth of large proportions of the younger (and our) generations of whites

Joseph Lopez
Joseph Lopez

Catholicism has adherents who are hypocritical, misogynistic, racist, impolite bullies.
no, they're people who believe in what is right and just.

also why the fuck am I seeing now warning from 1 year ago. fix your shit Hiro

Ayden Fisher
Ayden Fisher

It would not be love if it were not freely chosen.
my point is that an omnipotent god could have given a structure to the universe in which love does not have to be freely chosen.

What might this look like?
I don't even want to pretend I know. but with god EVERYTHING is possible, allegedly, so this is one of them things possible.
I don't think any such thing is possible.
not even the omnipotent god of christianity could do it? omnipotence btfo.
inability to perform what is logically impossible, nor to do what is sinful, is assumed in the claim of omnipotence.
of course I know this, but based on the lack of attempts by theists to justify it I am forced to conclude that this exception has no other reason except to avoid discussion of exactly the kind of contradictions I'm peddling here. think: god is impotent against logic? against his own nature? he can only perform _logical_ miracles? whence these limitations? god found himself one day in an universe with rigid logical rules, and had to abide by them? he found himself to be averse of sinfulness, so that's it? instead of him deciding what are the rules of logic, if any? instead of him deciding what is and what is not going to count as sin, whether he should or should not be averse of sinfulness, indeed whether sin is physically possible at all?

William Parker
William Parker

muh catechism
what part of what you posted do you imagine addresses my point at all?
picking out a few words from my post, anointing them as keywords, then googling the catechism forthe same 'keywords' and posting the first result here does not constitute an argument. consider the catechism known and my points unaddressed by it. if you have no ability to argue in your own words in the format imposed by this board, what exactly were your reasons to even post what you undoubtedly think qualifies as an answer?

Blake Jenkins
Blake Jenkins

and yet you're posting about it on a taiwanese slideshow board.

Ryder Torres
Ryder Torres

Your understanding of God and free will is not what Catholics know and believe user

I've engaged your thoughts and posted links to help you understand what Catholics know and believe

Joseph Foster
Joseph Foster

I know what catholics think they know. I just find it logically contradictory and catholics are either unwilling to acknowledge this (not even by a reference to those 'mysteries of faith' copouts they wouldn't be willing to accept in any other setting and from any other ideology) or they are flat-out unable to understand them.
so again: I know catholic theology tries to resolve the 'why does god have to do anything' conundrum by fiat. but they don't resolve it at all. they could say it's a mystery why god does anything, why does he install institutions like life, sin, free will, logic etc. or, when he does, why does he do it this way and not in some other way. but they - catholic theologians, that is - choose to pretend they don't notice the sleight of hands when they bury the 'external limitations on god' scandal behind 'you are a rural or suburban retard for not knowing that we decreed omnipotence to exclude a huge swath of acts of god described in the bible. remember, god could turn those stones into sons of abraham, as in, into men with genealogies going back to abraham who - and their ancestors - did not exist a minute ago, but now they have existed during all history. he can be three and one person at the same time and this is an acknowledged logical impossibility, covered by 'mystery of faith'. he can reconcile free will and predestination, and this, again, is a 'mystery of faith', since it appears clearly illogical. catholic theologians are acknowledging god doing and being the logically impossible all the time, but all they have to do is state that they don't, and the minions will parrot it.

Colton Cruz
Colton Cruz

I couldn't imagine how mortifying confessing it would be.
You were a kid back then right? Kids do stupid shit all the time, most priest probably know that and will feel happy to know you regret what you did now. Also you can always travel to another state confess, and never go there again if you think you can't face that priest's ever again.

Grayson Thomas
Grayson Thomas

Good.
youtube.com/watch?v=A-5B54wXgI4

Jacob Morris
Jacob Morris

Lel. We meet again.

Come back when the brothodox have agreed on a consistent teaching on contraception.

Jacob Butler
Jacob Butler

R-Alaska
wot

Levi Taylor
Levi Taylor

at least this is a clear example of why catholics are at least as unreliable as jews when it comes to legislation, due to their double loyalty requirements. I would require all elected representatives to disclose up front if they are part of any international religious organization and to make them resign if they join such a religion while in office.

Landon Robinson
Landon Robinson

Bishop Thomas J. Paprocki

A child molester who waves communion around like weapon

Luckily, we aren't in Medieval period anymore so his threats are empty and Pope Frank should think about defrocking him

Aaron Kelly
Aaron Kelly

Henry II be like
WTF you say, Nigger?

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