Can Archer really solo the entire Holy Grail War?

Let's settle this once for all.

>Gae Bolg

Lol

Every servant can solo the entire holy grail war.

Taiga could solo the HGW if Nasu wanted her to. And as an ordinary human.

No.

He can't even beat Rider.

If he sniped all the master. He could for sure win it by himself.

No, I don't think he can.

See, as I understand, all heroes have certain aspects of their legend tied to their concept. And what is Emiya Archer's? Ultimately the one that defined his life and the true reason his past self won against all odds: Emiya is ultimately a defeatist. He can win battles, but never win the war and ultimately is defined by his failure more than his victory.

Archers are the biggest jobbers of Fate

inb4 Archer never used his Unlimited bladeworks on lancer

Every Heroic Spirit could potentially win the Grail War because Fate/ is balanced like that. Could Archer however beat every other servant in a 1v1? I'd say probably not.

This. Master sniping lets him beat anyone he couldn't 1v1, but beating Lancer, Saber, or Berserker on their own is nearly impossible for him.

Not that one

This.
Every servant is imbalanced to the point where they reach a balance

It's kinda his whole job to go around soloing grail wars so yeah. Despite what Eggplant wants people to believe, all counter guardians are broken as shirt because that's what the grail wants them to be.

That's Lancers though.

>Couldn't even get past a shield

>Thrown version

Lmaoing at your life right now. The stab version kills EMIYA 100%

yeah but if archer doesn't get into close combat then that doesn't really matter

If I recall correctly, due to the mechanics of reverse causality, it only changed course to hit Saber because she tried to dodge it and Lancer sort of just thrust in a random direction, so if Archer doesn't do anything his chances of survival increase dramatically.

>Lancer
>Broken Phantasms

>Saber
>Sparks Liner High

>Berserker
>Caliburn

The Miyuverse one did. Although he did lose to Gil in the end

It changed course to hit Saber because reality said it was already in her chest, it had to get in there to not break the world. Archer has no defence against the stab Gae Bolg, did you read the first encounter at the start of the VN?

Lancer is literally the fastest in the 5th War and is also immune to arrows. You're retarded.

>Lancer
>Broken Phantasms
Yeah sure lets broken phantasm snipe the guy who has protection from arrows

>Broken Phantasms
Only AoE will affect him and he's probably fast enough to evade even them.

>Sparks Liner High
>kills himself

>Caliburn
Can't project it.

Not saying it's impossible, Bazett managed to beat everyone sans Herc with fucking Avenger, but it's definitely not in his favour.

I guess he does beat lancer in extra. But he has access to Excalibur there

Just as a note, Sparks Liner High was against Alter, who's much slower. It's kinda doubtful if he could beat regular Saber.

Good thing it only did her chest and notnher heart.

Is humanity in danger of going extinct as a result of him losing? Cause if he's summoned as a Counter Guardian proper he's going to wipe the floor

hello friendos what is anime with girl with large breasts blonde in school teaches nerd friend

>much slower
Her agility is one rank lower. I seriously doubt Shirou had C-rank agility when he fought Alter.

The thing about Archer is UBW is the best example of potential that we'll never see. We'll never know just what's in there, because it's entirely up to the plot on what Archer uses. The fact he took 6 lives off Herc solo shows he's got massive potential, but we'll never see what crazy stuff he could whip out. Hrunting alone is pretty fucking strong.

Lancers just get shit masters/luck every time

>Gilgamesh can beat everyone with ease because his sword spam is too strong
>Shirou has sword spam that can outpace and kill gilgamesh.
>Archer is that, but juiced up.
>Somehow archer can't beat everyone

>Shirou has sword spam that can outpace and kill gilgamesh
UBW outpaces GOB since its a direct hard counter but it sure as hell didnt kill him since it was shirou rushing his ass down once he realizes gilgamesh isnt taking this shit anymore.

>Shirou has sword spam that can outpace and kill gilgamesh.

False

>UBW outpaces GOB since its a direct hard counter
It's a direct hard counter, by being the same thing only faster.
Meaning anything Gil's spam can kill, Archers' can better.

>Fate/side material - Encyclopedia: Infinite Creation of Swords [Noble Phantasm, Magecraft], p.076 [T]

Infinite Creation of Swords [Noble Phantasm, Magecraft]
Unlimited Blade Works
Though it is treated as a Noble Phantasm, technically speaking it is a type of sorcery called a reality marble.
Within this reality marble exists all the ingredients needed for the creation of swords. So long as Archer has seen the original, he is able to easily replicate it.
However, the replicated weapon has its rank reduced by one.
Replication of defensive armaments is also possible, but it requires two to three times more magical energy than a normal projection.
Once an armament has been replicated, it is registered inside the boundary field and can be manufactured with projection sorcery even without expanding the reality marble.
Against a normal opponent this is little more than a somewhat troublesome ability, but it is the natural enemy of a certain King of Heroes.

>Against a normal opponent this is little more than a somewhat troublesome ability, but it is the natural enemy of a certain King of Heroes.

>Golden Armor
>Ea
>Clairvoyance
>zero magic energy costs
>better stats in general

>Against a normal opponent this is little more than a somewhat troublesome ability, but it is the natural enemy of a certain King of Heroes.

Yeah, that's what they SAY, but there's no logic behind it. Archer's swords are as varied as gil's, with the added benefit that he can trace the skills of the original wielder (a stated weakness that gil has in melee combat).

So again, if Gil's spam can beat most servants, and Archer has the same spam, only faster, there is no reason anything Gil can kill can't be killed by archer.

>All of that still gets btfo by Unlimited Blade works.

Gil fought no one depending on his armor and stats. He just lobbed swords at them until they died. This alone was effective enough to beat just about everyone in the Fate /SN grail war.

So if Archer has an attack that's effectively the same only faster, then there's no reason he'd be at a disadvantage where Gil can win using that method.

>Gil fought no one depending on his armor and stats
>except Saber, twice
Also, I forgot to mention Enkidu.

Why couldn't Archer win HF?

Why didn't Archer just use Gae Bolg on Lancer?

It seems to be related to the fact that Archer is only the 'owner' of the NP, and not the master of the NP.

The NP being ranked down, and it cost more mana than GoB. And Archer being mostly limited to melee weapons (other types requires a lot more effort and cost a lot), and thus not as versatile as Gilgamesh's treasury.

He wanted to fuck saber. He could have annihilated her with swordspam if he really wanted to.
He only used Enkidu against berserker.

>The NP being ranked down, and it cost more mana than GoB. And Archer being mostly limited to melee weapons (other types requires a lot more effort and cost a lot), and thus not as versatile as Gilgamesh's treasury.
Yeah, but if this is the case, then how can he hard counter Gilgamesh?

>1) UBW could fire more NPs per second compared to Gilgamesh, because all the swords are already 'ready'. And thus Gilgamesh have to defend against stray NPs too.
>2) Shirou can instantly replace the weapons in his hand while Gilgamesh have to manually pull them out.
>3) Shirou could download the techniques, but his body can't keep up (even in HF), but Gilgamesh was only a owner, and have not mastered any of his Noble Phantasm like the other heroes did.
>Even with all those advantages, Shirou had to be relentless and strike while the iron was hot, because he knew if Gilgamesh regains composure he would be screwed, this was stated by Shirou himself.

1) An advantage that would also be noticeable against other servants.
2) See above.
3) See above.

And yeah, Shirou being a novice mage and a simple human put him at a severe disadvantage. Now if you take into consideration that Archer is a servant, how can Nasu pretend Archer would not be equally strong against all the servants Gil smashed?

Can UBW Shirou beat Angelica?

>Dengeki Hime 02/2006, Type-Moon Double Maniax - [Fate] Dream Battle - Archer vs Rider
Archer vs Rider
Editorial department (Prediction)
At long range his fire won't work against Bellerophon.
At medium range the bow is really handy, and Rider who's inferior in skill only has her Mystic Eyes.
But if Archer's bow starts to get petrified, he can activate Unlimited Blade Works.
In which case Rider will just use Bellerophon and destroy him instantly.
He can't shoot them down but Rho Aias can buy him time enough to pull out Harpe and maybe have a chance at victory.

Nasu-san CHECK!
You would think Archer would have the advantage, but Rider actually has the edge at long range? Just like that question, their compatibility is not very good. Since both aren't fixated on the methods of winning, they'd definitely both choose a low-risk and high-return type of warfare.
Even if Archer takes out a Saber-class holy sword, he doesn't have enough magical energy to draw on to maximize it, so it'd be hard to for him to attack Bellerophon. What determines victory or defeat is whether Aias on its own would be enough to block Bellerophon perhaps...?

The BP trick's main purpose is to increase the rank of a NP by 1 for a desperation attack at the expense of them being destroyed. The shock of a NP's destruction causes massive explosions as a side-effect, but because Archer can create infinite NPs, there are no drawbacks aside from the exorbitant mana costs.

>other types requires a lot more effort and cost a lot
That specifically applies to defensive tools. All weapons have a relatively small cost to retrieve from UBW. The main gimmick of tracing is how much more efficient the use of mana is than ordinary projection. He is Archer, after all.

>Dengeki Hime 02/2006, Type-Moon Double Maniax - [Fate] Dream Battle - Saber vs Archer

Nasu-san CHECK! The class of the representatives of close-range and long-range combat. Saber, who would take her sword in any condition whatsoever and Archer who would fight using a strategy of victory. The highlight won't just be the different battle styles, but the difference between their personalities. However, even with UBW, it's questionable whether he could hold Saber back in single combat. One definite hit from sniping and one absolute blast of death from her Holy Sword. It might really depend on the wit of their Masters not their own in determining who has the upper hand.

Because UBW is just a slow burn of sword spam.
Servants like lancer/saaber/herc have shown to be able to last through the spam and they can just use their trump to rape his shit in considering his trump is the sword spam itself.

>Because UBW is just a slow burn of sword spam.
And yet it's faster than GoB sword spam, which killed every enemy Gil tried to fight.

See the issue?

Interesting info user, but it's not the point I'm trying to make.

>Fate/side material - Encyclopedia: Projection [Magecraft], p.067 [T]
>....
>Of course, Shirou can only project things that are related to weapons in some way – or more specifically, swords. Modern weapons are off limits.
>Well, technically he can pull out shields or armor, too, if he strains himself to his utmost limits, but the effects only last for an instant and the cost is enormous.

>Fate/complete material III: World material - FAQ with Nasu: Noble Phantasms, p.134
>Q: What is the limit of replication in UBW? The highest level of NP (sword types) is probably Ea, but while it might be impossible for Shirou, could Archer make it? Also, under the meaning of weapons, to what extent can he make modern weapons? Must it be only blade types or can he make guns and mobile weapons?

>A: Divine constructs like Ea and Excalibur are non-replicable. There might be some degraded NPs with similar performance in stock though. Also, since sword is becoming his origin, the weapons that he has stored are fundamentally limited to close combat.

Reminder that EMIYA solo'ed everyone in 3 days during FHA in many of the loops by going serious sniper mode.
Reminder that Miyu's Shirou solo'ed his HGW in a single night in a boss rush except for Angelica who unlike Gil is not retarded so she pulled Ea right away.

Dengeki Hime 02/2006, Type-Moon Double Maniax - [Fate] Dream Battle - Archer vs. Assassin
Nasu-san CHECK!

If it's a straight out death match, then Archer will win. But Assassin is an oddity that fights under different battle conditions from the other Servants. While many Servants are offensive, Assassin is defensive. At a Servant-killing battlefield like Ryuudou Temple and with Caster's anti-sorcery defensive barrier, sorcery and Noble Phantasm power is decreased significantly. As a result, if it's not a powerful Noble Phantasm, then he won't take a fatal wound. Which means that the battle between the two is clearly swordsmanship. With Archer having his sniping sealed off to him due to the terrain effect, could Archer actually lose...?

D ranked Agility. Compared to B rank under Rin or the Fate system (Grand Order), or A rank under Kiritsugu.

Her Instinct also dropped a rank.

>Divine constructs like Ea and Excalibur are non-replicable
But what about that one time when Shirou pulled Excalibur out of his ass?

His sword spam are weaker because of the penalty and the weapons being limited to close combat NPs.

also:
>Comptiq 2006-10 issue - Fate Dojo Q & A
Q: Is it possible to recreate swords consumed or broken within the bounds of Unlimited Blade Works without the use of prana?

A: The prana expenditure required for the formation and upkeep of the Reality Marble would be continuous, but armaments already formed upon the deployment of the Reality Marble would be without cost. However, the recreation of items destroyed and the fresh creation of items not in existence at the time of deployment would expend significant amounts of prana.

Yeah, Archer is strong enough to turn Hercules's arms and legs into liquid jelly.

Also, Hercules said Archer's swordsmanship gave him a sword boner so much that Hercules regretted being summoned as a Berserker.

Triple Crane Strike is a legit move.

Because while UBW counters GoB due to it being two identical concept smashing against each other, cancelling each other out, the level of damage UBW swordspam does against enemies is much lower than GoB. UBW weapons are 1 ranked lower than GoB, the only reason it counters GoB is because UBW fires faster, forcing Gil on the defensive

Then it goes back to theyd just use their trump to kill archer.
Doesnt matter how fast your shit is when they would blast your shit in. He empty threatened to excaliblast saber in UBW to take everyone out since he couldnt do shit even after releasing his marble when he paid the mana cost already.
Even if its a faster release doesnt mean they cant rape his shit in since almost all other servants are faster and stronger.

He didn't.
In one of the HF ending he created a knock off version of the Excalibur.
The narration didn't even call the projection Excalibur or Holy Sword.

EMIYA couldn't defeat Rider because he has shit magic resist

>His sword spam are weaker because of the penalty and the weapons being limited to close combat NPs.
But his spam is strong enough to mirror-counter Gil's spam. Plus he can break his weapons which raises the rank of the attack by 1 grade.

Okay, so why didn't the servants do that and smash Gilgamesh? Because again, Gil's spam alone crushed every one of his enemies, and Archer's is a better version of it.

Well, Shirou does win the Grail War. Granted, it involved a lot of bullshit, and he can't exactly beat every other servant without bullshit, but still, being able to pull out bullshit is also a skill of Emiya. So in conclusion, no, he can't, fuck off.

Because Shirou challenged Gilgamesh with the claim that a copy can surpass the original.

Otherwise Gilgamesh could also pull out all his other future prototype space age techs, warships, military arsenal, etc...

>But his spam is strong enough to mirror-counter Gil's spam
That's anime only bullshit.

See, GoB has stronger weapons, but they take a moment to fire after being drawn out. UBW, though, fires immediately. This allows UBW to stop Gil from firing altogether. If GoB does fire a weapon, it'll have the advantage over UBW copy of it.
To give you an analogy, think of the two as weapons. GoB is a bazooka, while UBW is a simple rifle. Before Gil can load a shell in GoB and fire it, UBW, which is faster, destroys the shell before it is even fired.

Also:
>Fate/Extra CCC - Gilgamesh Matrix
03 - Collector [EX]
The ability to acquire items of higher quality. It's the good luck of frequently obtaining even rare items, but because it only applies to Gilgamesh himself, it does not bless the Master.
Gilgamesh is a collector of treasure. "I collected all the treasures of the earth," is Gilgamesh's favorite phrase, but that is not a metaphor. He collected and stored away a sample of all the technology that was developed during his age and sealed them.
That which Gilgamesh stored, rather than being treasure, is "the origin of the intelligence of mankind" itself. If it does not exist in Gilgamesh's treasury, then it is "something produced by a new breed of humanity, according a completely new concept," "something made from the technology of the culture born from the intelligent life from another heavenly body," one of the two.
For that reason, of course he has airplanes and submarines. The desires of the people from before Christ are not different, and it would not do for the crafts of ancient times when magic was in good health to be inferior to the crafts of the modern age. People generally realize the "tools of hope" that they dream of, and each time that occurs, it ended with them being confiscated by the king's hand.
The offensive skill Gilgamesh uses, "Gate of Babylon," shoots the treasure he collected like this like arrows. The gate to the golden capital opens, and his treasures are shot out from his treasure cellar.
This is a digression, but after the Noble Phantasms that are shot out are used, regardless of how far it has gone, it turns to Gilgamesh's treasure cellar. "Hah. I possess a Noble Phantasm which excels at the task of retrieval," says the person himself.

ARCHERS SPAM IS NOT AS GOOD AS GILS SPAM

ANIMEONLYS PLS GO

GIL BARELY OPENED HIS GATES AGAINST SHIROU

Is that why Gilgamesh's GoB animation in the games like F/GO have a delay before they fire?

This is a good post.

Yeah he needs to draw the weapon, aim, and fire.

Unlimited Blade Works is literally a pocket dimension controlled by Shirou. If he wants the swords to fly up and hit Gilgamesh's loaded weapons they will.

Yeah.
But they show it wait a bit too long, for dramatic effect. It's only a split second delay. In any other situation, this delay wouldn't even be noticeable. And it's only in firing the weapon. Drawing out it by hand doesn't have that delay. That's why Gil could trade a few sword blows with Shirou before just being outskilled as a swordsman.

Does he actually aim? I never really got the impression he did aim. He just sort of throws weapons in the general direction of his opponent. Even if he does aim, I doubt it's a conscious thing. His magic eyes probably do the aiming automatically for him.

Looking back on it, was FSN [UBW] THAT bad?

why didn't archer just create a copy of avalon to give himself automatic healing and magic resistance?

If he's able to create reality marbles and generate mass noble phantasms acting without a master how strong would he be going all out with an abundance of mana?

Avalon apparently only works if King Arthur is giving it magical energy.

no if it was that bad it wouldn't of had multiple adaptions and a movie

Why the fuck are you posting this in every single Fate thread?

Trolling?

Avalon without Excalibur is useless.

What matters is the quality of swords that are spammed. Gilgamesh can spam B-A rank weapons constantly whereas outside UBW emiya cant do the same since the mana needed to reproduced a B-A rank np is ridiculously high. UBW also takes time to set up

>UBW also takes time to set up
This argument will never not be retarded.

>only works if King Arthur is giving it magical energy
>but Kerry could use it to revive Shirou
Avalon works as long as magical energy is being poured into it. Because Arturia is it's true owner, it auto-works in her possession.

>Excalibur having anything to do with it

Can Fateshit really continue to ruin this board? Let's settle this once and for all.

He could use it to revive Shirou because it had a bit of Saber's magic left in it.

As long as Arturia was around she was putting magical energy into it, but once she left the world once it was drained of power it was just a fancy sheath.

How is that retarded? It needs a pretty big incantation, and trying and fighting at the same time is not easy. By the time he finishes it, most Servants, from Kojiro and Cu to Herc and Artoria, would kill Archer multiple times. There's a reason he has never used it in a proper fight yet, not even in the joke that was Grand Order. Because it's not a practical ability in most situations.

Of course not

Fate has been on Sup Forums since the beginning

Can you be any more butthurt?

Because while his weapon are 1 rank lower, conceptually its exactly the same thing as the weapons coming out of GoB, but faster because UBW has no "loading time". When two conceptually thing smashes together, they both break, regardless of stats. That's how UBW hard counters GoB. Against other opponents, UBW swordspam just tickle them while costing a ton of mana, while GoB is virtually free.

Archer's best shot of winning is doing what he did in HA, turtle in a high place and use specialized sword arrows to snipe down enemies. Caladbolg is a nuke, Hrunting is a homing missile, Gae Bolg-arrow (hypothetically) would home at the enemy's heart.

>Plus he can break his weapons which raises the rank of the attack by 1 grade.
Broken Phantasm are extremely costly, he can't spam it.

...

He can only reproduce Avalon with a link to Saber, just like Caliburn, that was the explanation given I'm fairly sure. EMIYA came from a Fate route-like timeline, he gave Avalon back in the end, so he's aware of it (UBW fight), but he no longer has the ability to reproduce it.

Does Lancer have Protection from Arrows specifically or protection from projectiles generally? Because if it's arrows specifically, EMIYA is shooting swords from his bow, so protection from arrows is sorta useless.

Not protection from swords though, an Emiya literally shoot swords

It's literally protection against long range attacks, really any projectile (arrows, bolts, spears).

The only way Archer hurts Cu is through Broken Phantasms which he cannot spam without backup.

Projectiles. Even the swords Gil throws at him can't hit him. Even the ones that are supposedly never going to miss.