Why is the the debt so high? When will our economy crash? Does the debt even matter?

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angry ginger

when china decides it wants its money back, you guys are fucked

Hopefully it will crash soon. Government subsidized social security is a cancer to our economy and it will be the first to go.

The federal reserve notes are the debt. The Jews owe them selves. Things bought with the debt notes are pledged as surety to help pay back the debt the Jews promised to them selves. They promised themselves all the property in the world.

What do you mean when it wants its money back
How does the economy crash from social security lmao

it cant crash so it will never crash

>turtle beaches

That isn't cash we owe china, it's debt bonds we issued that they bought, bonds which have a maturation date. The only thing they can do is try to resell them, at which point we buy them back and china has only succeeded in fucking themselves.

Are you an MMTer by any chance

The US holds more of China's debt than China holds in US treasury bonds, and the EU and Japan holds as much or more of US bonds.

>its money
>it's all dollar-denominated
>durr

A government with monetary authority cannot be forced into sovereign default. Though debt and deficits have to be managed in appropriate countercyclical fashions, the notion that a government which manages its fiscal and monetary policies in its own sovereign currency and borrows in its own sovereign currency runs any significant macroeconomic risk is absurd. For further info, please see Japan which has carried a debt load of around 240% of GDP for well over a decade and has not once cracked +2% inflation in that time period.

Not particularly, but I am a doctoral candidate in economics.

Who iš this guy from gif? He looks based

The debt is high because of an ancient Babylonian usury scheme whereby central banks create fiat currency and loan it to governments with interest, so that debt is mathematically impossible to pay off. Bluepilled idiots call this 'The Jews' but the original incarnation of this scam is far, far older than the Abrahamic religions.

>How does the economy crash from social security lmao

When all the goy that work die off, from being over milked of their labor to creating things for useless eaters whom offer nothing in return, but "muh benefits, muh free".

Chinese have the industry, what Adam smith called the "Wealth of nations", to the fools whom thought that the money was the wealth.

This is why its so important Trump got our coal back, to get our great lake Germans working again.

Also, can you answer what happens if China dumps all the US dollars to the United States and the US dollar deflates? Is that even an issue worth mentioning?
I was thinking that, but then what happened in 2008 when we had a recession? Did the debt have anything to do with that whatsoever

Most the American debt is owed to Americans.

That's now how treasury bonds work, desu.

take off your clothes whore

Worst they can do is dump them to fuck up interest rates, but that's it.

How can a US economy crash from increasing social security when we are the sovereign issuer of our own currency?

or just print more money

But coal is still dropping because it's uncompetitive.

It would only be competitive if steel output kept rising.

Simplified: The recession had to do with household debt defaults due to predatory loan practices (+ stupid lenders) and big financial institutes playing fast and loose with financial rules and mortgage bonds, because "who will ever default on their mortgage? It's the safest thing there is."

Turns out that when people get a high interest rate hike after 2 years on their loan payments that they cannot meet for a house they never really could afford, they default.

I'll tell you kids right now.

Those numbers don't matter one fucking bit. That's why you never hear about them.

No. And we generated a shitload of it to finance the recovery. The issues underlying the financical crisis had nothing to do with public debt, they had to do with the securitization of unsound mortgage debt.

A very good metric of whether an entity's ability to service its debt is its credit rating. The US has never been rated junk. Another very good metric is prevailing interest rates, as they reflect default risk. Look at the rates on Treasury debt. They're next to nothing. Yet another: debt to GDP ratio. We're around 1:1.

No matter how you slice, the US public debt position is not very risky.

And then the Fed just buys them, pushing rates right back down.

The "US" is a private corporation, we have hired to fulfill the duties of the real government. And in their private capacity they have their own business, like the social security trusts.

>sovereign issuer of our own currency
Really? Remember what the constitution says? Gold and silver coin a tender only.

“The higher the debt, the higher the credit.”

So it's always the private debt (which in this case was caused by predatory lending and mortgages homeowners couldn't pay off) which is the lead cause of recession, not the national debt
Yeah, and we got off the gold standard back during Richard Nixon's administration

On a international scale, debt is a bridge that encourages commerce.

They day that you should panic is not when china decides it wants its money back; it's the day it decides it doesn't.

Well, based on how you worded the question I can tell you're economically illiterate, debt is a good and healthy thing that an economy needs, to be honest, we'd be better off with MORE debt.

It’s called fractional reserve banking. They need debt so the banks can leverage it into more imaginary money. For every 10 “real” dollars they loan out 90 more based on it. Nobody ever seems to really get how the system works which is why I always laugh really hard when people bitch about the “debt”.

>the lead cause of recession, not the national debt
Correct.

>tfw There are more Keynesians and Post-Keynesians than there are Austrians and Chicagoans in a Sup Forums thread

Is this real life

The corporation got off the gold standard. The constitution is Law. You are participating in a fake economies, that it repugnant to the intention of Nature and Nature's God, That man subdue the Earth. But you think you can wish yourself free shit. In the end your family will starve and the Jews will inherit everything you created.

>We are the sovereign issuer

But we aren't. The Federal Reserve is. A private corporation owned by a handful of (((international financiers))). It is unconstitutional according article 1 section 8 clause 5.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

Imagine having to deal with stuff like this as an American official.

>"Fake economics"
>Implying that economics isn't politically determined

Opinion discarded

I agree but all non direct trade economics are based upon nothing but trust in the system. People have bastardized and cheated the shit out of it so that now it’s a complete joke. That’s what happens when education is garbage and no one is paying attention.

This is true. You can thank our ignorant forerunners for that.

The Fed is a part of our government even though its internal operations are independent. All of the money is spent into creation by our government, while the Fed is just what sets the interest rates ie the Monetary Policy

Also, the Federal Reserve was actually created in 1913 not by the elites but by Congress when they passed the Federal Reserve Act.

>Also, the Federal Reserve was actually created in 1913 not by the elites but by Congress when they passed the Federal Reserve Act.
With the help of elite bankers who wanted to control it from the start.

You'd be surprised

Cuck Swede
I've commanded District Attorneys at the end of my dog leash, obeying my orders, they didn't want to do. I own them. When are you going to grow some balls and arrest that worthless pig you call your King?


>Implying that economics isn't politically determined
It is private. It is contract, and the constitution keeps government out of private contracts.

Yes, no one studies contract law. The Jews have fooled most of us into clouding our titles.

>When are you going to grow some balls and arrest that worthless pig you call your King?

When he stops being a revenue magnet.

Also, that picture is from a Swedish video game.

You mean when the attendees like the owners of the Morgan Bank and the National City Bank made the Aldrich Plan in 1910?

Because the House immediately struck that plan down and passed a seperate Federal Reserve Act 3 years later.

The Federal Reserve took power away from the Banks and gave it over the the Federal Government. The very creation of the Federal Reserve Bank helped clamp down on private banking

Most of the debt the government owes is to itself, only, like, only 10% is owed externally (if that much even). So just shut your fucking ass.

lmao Tell that to the Austrians in this thread who think that the Fed belongs to the Jews and that we will become bankrupt if we even spend a dime more on welfare

Yeah because they envy America, instead they have to put up with loyalist like you, whom kiss the ass of your Welfare recipient King.

...gave to the corporate government, owned by the same owners of the Federal Reserve.

Sounds like your going down the path of rhetoric of racketeering, this will anger me.

Muh Guns, Muh Gold, Thus Muh private bank.

bump

>This will anger me

Like I give a shit. Keep on being as delusional as the rest of the Austrians and libertarians though, it helps keep this thread alive

Which is even worse. That means a default results in the wiping out of American citizen's savings.

shut up and get in the fucking robot, asuka

US can never default, but you are right. Wiping out American citizen's savings will increase the private debt of each individual and will lead to a recession

>Yeah because they envy America, instead they have to put up with loyalist like you, whom kiss the ass of your Welfare recipient King.

I'm actually a republican but in practice the king and the royal family enjoys very high popularity, unlike the thirteen colonies which were ruled from across the ocean our king is literally right here.

If social security was private it wouldn't be illegal to decide not to participate. The only people legally able to avoid social security payments are the amish.

It means more than that. Loss of confidence in the financial system, bank runs and hyper inflation.

A Jew popular with the Arab invaders.

So logical you imply you believe in racketeering. And it is good for the federal reserve to Racketeer private banks, in the name of protection, and centralization?

Corporate Government, Corporate Bank Notes, Corporate Persons. The Amish don't sign into Social Security, to the corporate all capital letter account name on it. No one has to.

Holy shit. You're evidence that retards shouldn't have access to computers.

Figure out how treasuries work, goblin.

OP- it's because of social programs.

why is she so cute

>Does the debt even matter?
At this point in time, very very much so. Inflation is a very real concern now given the tax reform as supercharged our economy. Historically the Fed would raise interest rates to combat it, but with US debt so high doing so would increase the interest charges on our debt which would eat more tax revenue to make payment on. It's a domino effect that, in a nutshell, would lead to a credit downgrade and losing foreign investor interest in treasury bonds.

>A government with monetary authority cannot be forced into sovereign default.

Defaults are almost never forced. At some point the debt becomes a burden and the government figures it's easier to start afresh.

This is some BS propaganda that everyone believes about the US. All the government finance has to do with the budget. If the budget is strained by the debt servicing, the government defaults. It has nothing to do with monetary authority. Our debt servicing costs now and in the 80s are the same. If yields go negative we can ramp up infinite debt. The only problem is that the USD will start rapidly collapsing with negative yields. At some point you choose the currency or "solvency". Considering the US debt has zero investors protection, it's very easy to wipe the slate clean. Not only with the new debt with proper protections get sold, but the dollar will rally hard.

So in short, yes at some point the US will chose to default if the US will have a choice of rapidly declining USD and raising debt servicing. The way things are now, if USD will start falling off the cliff they may chose to default to create the shortage of USD. Nobody is planning to pay off whatever the debt is. It's always a choice of what level the currency should be at and the budget. If most of the budget goes to pay interest, the government will default. It will happen before that anyway.

1) Debt doesn't matter if it gets forgiven or the person or agency which technically holds the debt, somehow literally dies.

2) Debt also doesn't matter except when it can't be paid and/or the person who is owed the debt is more powerful by way of the power to kill and cover it up than the person who owes the debt. This is why the US doesn't have to pay its debts so long as it maintains the power to annihilate anyone who actually comes to its doorstep actually wanting payback it can't make -- remember your Goodfellas and the guy who kept asking Joe Pesci to pay back the money he owed.

3) The government could easily declare debts null and void after a period of time -- they actually did this in ancient Babylon every seven years or so, just to keep the society solvent.

The bank notes are the debt. if it payed itself off it would cease to exist. When you look at their debt clock, that is really how "money" is in circulation. Why would they want it to be paid off? no they want to reap the harvest. let the goy build stuff, then either buy them out or sue or crash until they can wallstreetize the companies, and delegate it into the hands of a fellow Jew.

I don't think the Swede can reply to me because he is under duress of his feudal slaver. His country desperately need to be liberated, ether by America, or Russia, or from within. Please pray for people living under such tyranny, of an Alien ruler.

We have to be in debt or at least run steep trade deficit in order to liquidate the world with dollars. We still balance our trade budget (kinda?) by taking in capital inflows. The petrol dollar only benefits american corporations and it's killing our middle class. Time do devalue and cause a yuge depression. It's the only way. The only thing that scares me is if the IMF got in control of the reserve currency.

>when china decides it wants its money back
Actually it's when the west runs our of gold for China to import at artificially suppressed prices.

didthesystemcollapse.com/

You think that we are paying with magic shekels straight from a jew's ass (which is true) but China is using those worthless jew bucks to buy REAL GOLD. When they have every last scrap of gold on earth THEN they will dump our worthless treasuries and crash America to the ground.

Not a moment before. I look at this site every day to see the "spread" between Chinese gold (buying) and Western gold (selling).

>The federal reserve notes are the debt.
This.
The debt can go as high as they want - it only adds more currency and will devalue the currency in circulation.

Most of pol cant do economics

It's based South Korean.

youtube.com/watch?v=mLGPeXINe4A&list=PLEd1h6xwRKMn_0pLQhA7xinD6VFf4lKqc

when the people tho loan the money to your government decides to collect

i am not talking about china
but the federal reserve bank itself

youtube.com/watch?v=xEwFaY5erg4&t=7447s

>pretty shitty presidents/congress
>we crash the send the interest rates goes up (with a few months from now)

this is correct.

Damage controllers will say its not.

petro dollor...
We agreed with Saudi Arabia to only sell petro in US Dollars, Saudi then agrees to use said US dollars to buy American bonds. Thus we are in debt

>When they have every last scrap of gold on earth THEN they will dump our worthless treasuries and crash America to the ground.

>own a shit ton of dollar reserves/treasuries
>crash the asset
>????
>profit

A central bank is one of the communist manifestos main tenants

youtube.com/watch?v=EU8_H7x0KwA&t=580s

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youtube.com/watch?v=we4i4AdGa-A

youtube.com/watch?v=4AC6RSau7r8

youtube.com/watch?v=DyV0OfU3-FU

youtube.com/watch?v=94nDCm4NqIA

it matters when people stop buying bonds to loan the government more money to pay the interest

then it sounds like at the end of the day international finance is just a story we tell, and the people in charge just do whatever.

>own a shit ton of dollar reserves/treasuries
>crash the asset
>????
>profit

The price of gold is being suppressed NOW. If it were allowed to reach it's natural level (compared to our magic shekels) it would probably be $50,000 per ounce, and then people would realize the inherent worthlessness of our money. This suppression is accomplished with blatant naked shorts and computer trading.

The Chinese are more than happy to play along as long as they can take PHYSICAL delivery of real gold. Eventually the west will run out of real (deliverable) gold and only have their phony "paper gold" which are just promises on nothing. Since the Shanghai Gold Exchange opened last year it has NEVER been lower than the London Bullion Market. ALL gold delivered is delivered to China.

Gold is the only asset China can buy with our funny money that they can bring back to their homeland. They also buy land, and factories in US/Europe (like the Jews are doing) but they know those can be "confiscated" or "nationalized" by desperate governments. The ????? of the plan it to hold REAL assets when the dollar collapses.

When all the gold is bought, any US debt they have left will be worthless anyway.

doesn't matter... you know how in the movies some mafia loan shark loans some cash to a "friend" and says "don't worry 'bout it" and then comes to collect and the friend has no money and loan shark bitchslaps the friend and says "there's a thing you will do for me"... well this is the exact thing what's happening, government will do whatever banks ask them.

in regard of why doesn't it matter, it's because they can extend the debt perpetually because it's not backed by anything but paper and signatures, and they can trigger a recession or depression at will whenever they want. they have absolute control over nations... you can't get rid of cancer by giving it everything it wants.

Marxists. Within the next 7 years. Fuck yes.

About 30% of USA federal debt is foreign owned.

Eventually what will happen, is that overseas countries that have enslaved their populations for a quick buck from the US Federal Reserve will default because agriculture/cheap labor/etc will no longer turn a profit. Then, the government will attempt to take the land from the poorest, including farmers, and turn this land over to verified debt collectors. Food supplies will be cut short when this happens.

This will cascade if the local populations do not put down their governments. If this problem of default cascades, it will eventually reach the apex, which is the United States, and we too will see ourselves starving. Everybody has borrowed from each other, and nobody can pay back the quadrillions of man-hours that have been borrowed against. There just simply aren't enough human beings to foot the debt.

We used to have Jubilee years in the past every 50 years, where the leaders of countries would pardon all debts that humans owed to each other. Essentially a cleaning of the owed man-hour slate so that problems like the ones that we are currently enduring would not metastasize. However, we are now ruled by greedy oligarchs that can only see an ever increasing cash flow—clueless to the fact that the sheets must balance. Someone, somewhere, will default, and they will not be able to pull quadrillions of man-hours from their country's population to pay it back. And the oligarchs do not care if these countries implode because they are counting every single penny as a profit worthy of human genocide.

China is already forcibly collecting land from its poorest citizens. China has huge debts that it is trying to prepare for in the coming decades. We will probably see a war with China in the future.

People believe in official narrative and in names/reputation. Morgages were safest debt, because people would not sacrifice the roof over their head. Most didn't but most mortgages that defaulted weren't what you would call a mortgage. Same with the US treasuries. They are a book keeping tool, not real debt at this point. There is no recourse if one day you get nothing. In fact, you would be very surprised what the treasuries are and who will get hurt the most.

If Treasuries crash, the default is almost certain. If the default occurs, the gold is overpriced, because actual USD will be in short supply.

Trigger warning, go find yet safe place

Social security is separate from federal tax. It's a pool of money that the government has borrowed extensively from. The government owes social security, not the other way around.

Proceed now with the reeeeee

I'm angery, look at me!