newsweek.com/accutane-murder-acne-drug-defense-821437 >Attorneys for 15-year-old Aiden von Grabow hinted in a Boulder, Colorado, court hearing on Friday that they might list isotretinoin, also known as Accutane, in his defense, according to The Denver Post. Von Grabow was charged with murder in the death of 20-year-old Makayla Grote, who was stabbed with a hunting knife. Grote was found with stab wounds in her Longmont, Colorado, apartment by a neighbor in November 2017. She was transported to a hospital where she later died.
>The teenager allegedly entered Grote's apartment intending to kill her younger sister, whose name was at the top of a "death list" found by police in Von Grabow's bedroom. Defense attorneys Steve Jacobson and Mike Rafik said they would call Dr. Doug Bremner to testify on how isotretinoin could cause violent behavior in a patient who hadn't exhibited such behaviors before, The Mercury News reported.
>Bremner, a professor of psychiatry and behavioral sciences at Emory University in Georgia, has performed studies evaluating the link between Accutane and depression and suicide. Boulder Deputy District Attorney Adrian Van Nice objected to the defense calling Bremner, among several other witnesses in the case. Bremner authored a study published by the Journal of Clinical Psychiatry in 2012 that found that the drug was linked to depression, suicide, aggression and psychosis in some rare cases. However, a conflicting study published in the Journal of the American Academy of Dermatology in 2017 concluded that isotretinoin did not appear to be associated with depression, and said "moreover, the treatment of acne appears to ameliorate depressive symptoms."
I know that stuff will fuck you up, and I also know some of you have used it before. Do you think it can drive people to homicide as well as suicide?
I just read something about this! The medications that have this side effect are Accutane, Chantix, Zyrtec, Zoloft, and a couple of others but it spanned a bunch of different types of medications.
I took Accutane for about 4 months. It worked fine for me. It did make me irritable and sensitive to the sunlight, but nothing else.
Nathaniel Collins
>Do you think it can drive people to homicide as well as suicide?
Drugs don't make you do anything dumbass. They exacerbate problems that already exist.
When I was a kid, I was fat and had no friends. I didn't kill anyone, I grew up and went to the gym. I have also done most drugs on the planet, drugs usually get you high and make you lethargic, it's not like acne pills are as strong as heroin. Get real.
Charles Hernandez
I took it when I was 21 and it made me really emotional over anything.
My roommate took it when he was in middle school and it really made him emotionally unstable. I could see this as a defense in a murder, desu.
Samuel Turner
Jesus Christ acne is so fucking disgusting
Colton Flores
i was on it for a year. double the recommended time and i dont really recall feeling anything different than just before starting it. i mean i felt like shit and depressed before then because i had bad acne anyway so not much change there.
Evan Roberts
I'm not clicking that. Zyrtec? Allergy medicine?
Daniel Ross
Yes, and Lyrica amongst several others but all drugs for vastly different conditions
Blake Cook
Sew the thing here is he intended to kill her younger sister for reasons, found she wasn't home, then killed her instead
So yeah he's pretty mental, but I doubt it's the Accutane
It's probably the laced synthetic weed boulderites are doing now that high thc weed is too normie
Jeremiah Powell
I used that stuff and it changed my life. I could never get a date because I was a pizza face and it didn't come down to wait I ate, just shitty genes. The meds chapped the hell out of my lips and caused my skin to dry, but in the end, I had absolutely no acne.
Never really felt depressed or that bad on it. As I said, the most annoying thing is how much it chaps your lips.
Jonathan Bennett
sick as fuck, if you have acne like this HEADS UP its your fucking diet! your body is kicking something back, you dont need medication you need to avoid ingesting something.
Joshua Baker
I used to take it. My dad made me stop after a while because kids were killing themselves. This was in 1998-1999. They've known about this for 20 years at least. No bullshit.
Isaac Rodriguez
I took the stuff when I just was ending high school and became a welder. That was not fun.
Alexander Bailey
I had a horrible diet all throughout my teens and I never had acne. Pretty sure it's genetic.
Dylan King
where did you get that pic of my face
Andrew Edwards
My sisters are identical twins.
Back in the 90s, one of them took this shit in her teens, the other did not. Their personalities are exceptionally different. The one who took it, both her children have developmental problems. She's also a total narcissistic bitch, and I barely speak to her anymore.
There's a twin study of one for you user.
Parker Watson
Accutane was invented for cancer patients. Pretty sure it shouldn't be used for preteens with acne
Liam Anderson
I did isotretinoin for like 5 months. it worked great I've not had more than a single pimple in like 20 years. only negative for me was that id get sunburnt from like 5 minutes of exposure. I did have to go to the doctor ever couple weeks to make sure I wasn't having suicidal thoughts though....never did.
Juan Foster
Why is this facial-geography man not popping these?! Why would you let it build up like that?!
Julian Ortiz
its practically a miracle drug. well, you know outside of the suicidal side effects.
Zachary Morgan
>taking pills for acne instead of just washing your face
Jaxon Anderson
>Zoloft Shit! I took Zoloft for 2 days
Jackson Howard
I took accutane. Cleared me up and made me 100x happier than I was. There's no way this drug causes depression.
Austin Bennett
Why does big pharma gives us medicine that can kill us?
Alexander Moore
It's possible.
But the only way it's a credible defense is if the physician kept blowing off his appointments. This shit is under lock and key in terms of requiring appropriate patient education and monitoring before you can dispense it.
If the dude just shirked his appointments he's fucked. If the docs blew him off, then they're fucked and he might have a leg to stand on.
Dominic Anderson
>t. someone who has never had acne Now I bet you're going to say just watch your face with soap and water and avoid dairy
Nathan White
>it's your diet! Every time, every thread. There's always at least one.
Jacob Foster
because money > life
Bentley Wilson
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Samuel Sanders
I believe accutane is prescribed only when you have severe acne, which is caused (I believe) by excess oil secretion from your skin glands.
Not a doctor, so don't quote me in your medical journal.
Hunter Rivera
Same. Shit diet and legit beautiful skin some people luck out I truly think it's mostly genetic
Liam Powell
I've had acne I wash with Cetaphil twice a day, and make sure to change my pillow case every day or so
Henry Howard
It's only given for severe acne AND when you've failed basically everything else >clinda >doxy >rentinoid >benzoyl peroxide >combine oral contraceptives You actually have to sign a document if you're a man promising you won't have unprotected sex.
As your semen itself it enough to cause birth defects. And it's the against the law to take accutane as a woman if you're not on birth control
Dominic Gray
You can bet your last dollar that Big Pharma has been doing the same shit the tobacco industry did.
Kayden Garcia
The side effects are known to be pretty brutal. In pregnant women it's pretty much a guarantee that the baby will have some of the most severe defects you can even imagine. Google Accutane baby if you don't believe
Kayden Johnson
That's great. That's not going to work for everyone. Current evidence for diet is mixed at best according to current guild lines.
Isaac Thomas
There was one guy I grew up with who went to jail for attempted murder, and he used accutane.
But at the same time, there's another guy I grew up with who used accutane and is basically Jeb Bush.
Kayden Bennett
I had acne like the OP from 13 to 22. Washing my face didn't do shit to rid me of it no matter what i used.
Great, but its not true! I took Accutane and didn't murder anyone!
Jeremiah Parker
Have you tried not having shitty subhuman genetics?
Alexander Garcia
>Being autistic and not relising that acne for some people no matter how much you wash your face its a predisposed genetic thing
>literally born with 65iq
Eli Fisher
Oni a shit, Ichigo will win the Hirobowl
Nathan Mitchell
Tylenol too. Anything with a T in it!
Levi Allen
Oh Jesus. Stop eating dairy. Problem solved.
Brody Price
>Stop eating dairy i cant stop, i will never give up yogurt, tea, or cheese
Nolan Evans
accutane and sotret definitely do some hardcore shit to enzymes and your liver and stuff. I took it when I was like 14 and I developed extreme body hair and an extremely dense beard where as all my brothers and father are hairless. I also get the ol 2 beer hangover when my entire family are alcoholics or 'recovering' alcoholics. I've always wondered if the sotret did that to me. >inb4 not my father...we all paid our goy tax for dna tests
Gabriel Adams
Good for you
Michael Scott
>and it didn't come down to wait I ate did you cut out all carbs? no, you didn't.
Jeremiah Williams
Then you'll never give up your virginity
Oliver Adams
Could it really permanently fuck with your DNA like that?
Connor Baker
a good lawyer would argue that the medication made him too depressed to keep his appointments. irrespective of that, if the drug made him crazy enough to kill someone, that's what it did. doesn't really matter about his appointments if the drug is responsible.
Jaxson Turner
liver enzymes are extremely complicated and sometimes fragile. its just my pet theory that its possible due to my degree in biomedical engineering. lots of research into how people with different liver enzyme profiles (or altered enzyme profiles) affect drug interactions.
Jeremiah Reyes
Could be some truth to this. My buddy used acutane and turned i to a wack job during it, stalked his ex gf. He also abused adderall so that could be the problem too. Completely normal chad before he started using all that shit
Thomas Bell
Yes it can! and it can even make you black and gay!
Levi Long
yes and no pharmacists and physicians have a certain amount of due diligence we have to preform, but ultimately a lot relies on the patient. And that goes beyond accutane.
If docs hound the patient and the pharmacist refuses to dispense if the patient misses appointments then they can't be held accountable. I'm curious if someone here skipped a step.
Kayden James
What you describe goes beyond pet theory. Tons of people have different metabolism of CYP enzymes and this is well documented.
It's why dosing things with a narrow therapeutic window like warfarin can be so touchy.
Lincoln Turner
It's based off a hormone (vitamin A) so only god knows all the stuff it can do, especially someone in development
Dylan Brown
>Accutanes side effects manifesting into psychotic murderous behavior this was why I was afraid to get on this shit when I was a teen. still went through with it because chronic breakouts of back acne wouldnt stop and it was no fun to have constant pain. atleast I was fine but fuck this is just messed up.
Asher Sullivan
>be me >in high school >had bad acne >didn't really care >mom felt it must be stopping me from getting a girlfriend >has talk with me about whether or not I have low self esteem because of acne >tell her no >she says she's taking me to a dermatologist anyway >go to dermatologist >prescribed accutane, side effects are mentioned to me >take it for one month >can notice change in mental state, not feeling myself, very irritable, etc. >so fucking dry its not funny, like drinking a lake's worth of water and still being dehydrated >say enough of this shit I'm going to stop taking it >mom makes sure I remember to take it every night >every night for 5 months, pretend to take it and then spit it the fuck out >still having to get my blood taken because accutane can cause liver damage >go along with it because my mom is being nuts about this acne thing and is likely not going to take "no" for an answer >go back to see dermatologist after a few months >oh looks like your acne is clearing up, user >...uhh....yeah, I guess so >tell the doctor its been making me feel bad, very angry, bad thoughts >he says ok let's take you off of it for a bit and see how you feel >tell my mom on the ride home I don't want to ever take accutane again >well we'll see what happens after you're off it for a little while >go back to see dermatologist after a few months >say I feel much better and don't want to take accutane >he says alright, your acne looks much clearer anyway, doesn't write me an additional prescription >acne clears up by itself over the next year or two >faked taking accutane and my skin is fine now, hear my mom tell the story every once in a while how I had my skin saved by accutane
Isaiah Hughes
>normal >chad as a girl this is my take on that statement: he was a bro with rapey tendencies before acutane and the treatment just exacerbated his shit behavior, thanks for the clarification lmao.
Easton Bennett
I know, just saying that to my knowledge, while there is plenty of evidence showing drinking alcohol on accutane will fuck your shit up, there is not much about it reducing alcohol tolerance 20 years later..esp because I had never drank before taking it nor while on it.
Kayden Turner
I once tried to quit smoking using Chantix and ended up hanging myself. Luckily I was found, resuscitated, and given help. You HAVE TO take the drug side effects seriously and be on the look out for any abnormal thinking or behavior.
Noah Price
Nothing to see here goy. Just take your (((medicine))).
Brandon Nelson
>as a girl
Tits of gtfo
Adrian Reyes
I'm happy you hung in there
Dominic Hill
Did it increase your depression?
Dominic Collins
damn son. I went to the doctor to get chantix a couple years back and he absolutely refused to prescribe it for me because of stuff like this. he gave me Wellbutrin which was a miracle drug for addictive tendencies but it also made me cum practically dust lmao.
Benjamin Garcia
Took a standar course.. 6 months I think. Made me a bit sad but it was a bad time in my life so could have been that. Pretty thankful for it though desu
It just changes the way you think by altering chemicals in your brain. All of the sudden a normal person starts feeling depressed and acting on thoughts that they wouldn't even normally entertain. Yeah bro. It was strange for sure, the whole thing was surreal.
Blake Gray
ugh, go just get out
Leo Thompson
Alerted the FBI in case of shooting.
Samuel Campbell
shit fucked me up yo...gave me panic attacks when i was trying to fall asleep where i felt like was falling into infinity. had to quit it cold turkey.
Brayden Hernandez
lel same thing happened to me , almost , excpet i told my mom to fuck off with that accutane cancer , i d rather have no gf and low self esteem than take those . in the end it was even useless cause i had an infection so i did like 10 injections in belly with some kind of vaccine and it went away . altho i still have scars on my face . so much for the low self esteem
Oliver Howard
This is Jewish tricks 101 Accutane doesn't fuck with your head. People with acne are already severely depressed. That shit is fucking crippling. When you use accutane, you have this child-like expectation that it will work over night. It takes 6 months to a year which is pretty fucking fast.
After you're fucking healed, you will need to work on your confidence. Women will not magically fuck you because your skin is no longer disgusting. That's where the suicidal shit comes in. It's not the medicine, it's your expectations.
Brandon Garcia
>be vegan Chad >str8 natty bro >survive on activated almonds >see virgin buying cheese at whole foods >laugh >mash up a banana and put the nanamash under armpit because don't use deodorant >no chems in this temple
Teach me, senpai
Blake Hughes
People taking accutane are probably already depressed about their acne
Blake Garcia
idk man. at least back in the day people did accutane really young. like I was on it a month before my 14th birthday. I was definitely not old enough to even be depressed. maybe different now in the social media age.
Ryan Powell
I can't stop staring at his face
Nathan Powell
Trips of truth.
Dominic Carter
I used it for 2 years. No mental side effects at all just dry lips, skin and occasional muscle soreness. People usually need to have god-awful cystic acne to be on the drug and by then you'd already be a headcase full of emotional turmoil after looking like a peperroni pizza for a good portion of your adolescent life. On the contrary, it actually made me feel good while i was on it, knowing that i would be cured completely
Parker Howard
It's both. I've got high acne genetics but it gets a lot worse when I have sugar. Corn sugar esp
Owen Howard
did you kill yourself?
Jeremiah Hughes
boomers should be shot
Connor Torres
Nope, main cast will all die except 02 and Hiro.
Asher James
My boomer mother id the same thing with ritlian and adderall from age 5 to 18.
Ian Thompson
I have depression and a one time drug I took got me to get really fucking pissed off over the dumbest shit. But this kid needs to go to life in prison.
Parker Collins
We didn't choose to have acne. I've been through several medications and creams with only moderate success, then get cysts and pimples everywhere on my body when I go off them. I'm a healthy weight and eat a good diet. It's all just genetics. Not sure how these genes didn't get weeded out of the gene pool because I don't think I'd ever be able to get a girl without antibiotic treatments for acne.
Oliver Gutierrez
>4060588203589987 Why'd you post your credit card number on Sup Forums? If you want to donate money, I can give you my BTC wallet address so you can deposit in there.
David Nguyen
Bro you had rabies and were scratching holes in your face like a meth addict
Dominic Lopez
Only dry lips for me. Took it for 9 months.
I felt energetic as fuk and was very positive overall. People who have issues while on accutane, already had issues before taking it.
My dermatologist has take naccutane himself and has prescribed it to his son too. This shit is relatively safe, but just as any drug it might potentially fuck you up.
Asher Mitchell
It's LONG overdue. Accutane has been known to cause this shit for a LONG time.