What makes for a good anime villain? Do you think pic related is applicable at all?

What makes for a good anime villain? Do you think pic related is applicable at all?

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At least use an anime chart, Sup Forums. I don't know any of these guys.

A villian who is doing evil things out of cold calculating necessity but behind the scenes is disgusted at see's the demon they are becoming in the mirror. Although it never stops them, because they must be the villain to save us all.

This is idiotic.
''Evil because of evil" and "evil because selfish" villains are some of the best ones there are.
Sauron is the most iconic villain in entertainment and he fits those.

In fact, many of the most iconic 'villains' don't get called villains, because to be called a villain you need a grand plot and motivations.

The most iconic story antagonists are ones who selflessly act in their own interests, while humans desperately try to fight back. They are closer to a force of nature than a conventional 'villain.'

Examples of this type of enemy include zombies, xenomorphs, werewolves, dragons, vampires, etc. Their 'villain motivations' are simple. They want something humans have. Brains, DNA, flesh, gold, virgins, blood, whatever.
Because of this the conflict automatically sets itself up.

This is the kind of conflict that humans are really wired to understand and get emotional about. Not political struggles over who controls staging territories in the balkans. Just simple 1:1 resource disputes with an 'enemy tribe'.

The thing is, was Lavos really a Villain?

>Especies of it's own
>Lives a-termporally
>Life cycle is planting it's seed on a planet, then consume it's life
>Too bad you are all here because of me

Writing this reply made me realize it was probably Jews who invented dragons. At least the Western kind who hoard gold.

I think we can all agree on this

the god tier one is hella good example.

Here is another example of an ultra-iconic villain who acts out of no motivation besides selfishness/lust for power (which the image calls the worst tier of villain)

The ruling party in Orwell's "1984". Their motivations are said explicitly in the story, by one of their mouthpieces. They simply want power for the same of having power.

This chart is fucking retarded. Most of the best villains are what you refer to as shit tier. Villains who are evil for the sake of being evil are amazing.

>Villains who are evil for the sake of being evil are amazing.

Lavos is an antagonist not a villain.
Most implied villains are really just antagonist.
An antagonist is only at fault storyline wise because it holds a different view to that of the "Hero". It can in all actuality be good or evil.
Examples
Ozymandias, Lavos, Sephiroth.

A villain is less complicated (even if they seem overly complicated).
Villains do things not out of survival first and foremost. Villains do things that cause pain or destruction even if it is unneeded to further their devices.

They are good if they get me interested in them, make them a lovable dick who relishes in the fact of how much of an asshole he is or make him a guy you really love to hate and just want to see get btfo eitherway it doesn't matter how you do it just make him compelling.
For example this guy has literally no personality whatsoever and just kills people because of the flip of a coin, but he is still a great villain because of how big of a threat he was and how much tension he brought to the story.
You don't have to make a villain super deep to make him good, he has to be a good adversity for the characters to struggle with.

>Squealer-tier
Except Squealer wasn't a villain, he was just an antagonist.

How's this?

This is a shit meme list even by Sup Forums standards.

>undertale
opinion disregarded

Fixed

>Sauron is the most iconic villain in entertainment and he fits those.
Sauron might be iconic, but he's hardly a compelling or interesting villain. I couldn't tell you a thing about him, and I imagine most people couldn't either, even if they're somewhat familiar with Lord of the Rings.

>Because of this the conflict automatically sets itself up.
>Just simple 1:1 resource disputes with an 'enemy tribe'.
Being immediately understandable on some visceral level is not the same as being interesting or well-written.

Too few iconic characters (who the hell is the kid in the 'great tier'?), the rapist SAO elf should be shit tier, but otherwise a nice try.

Light's retarded, and his stupid plan would only work in a dumb series full of ass-pulls. More punitive forms of pnishment don't have any effect on crime rates without some deeper change to a society's political-economic structure.

>villains who are only obeying their nature
>the bus
Your okay sometimes Sup Forums

>who the hell is the kid in the 'great tier'?
The hero Sup Forums deserves

Light's a faggot.

Someone should make a real life version of this

All three of your examples are antagonists.
However of those three only Lavos is not a villian.
Lavos can be described as an animal that is doing what it needs to too survive.
Ozy and Sephiroth are doing something that is in fact evil and against the law.
They are not saving anyone or thing.
This is not just a case of missunderstandings.
That they aren't just dicks on top of what they are doing doesn't mean that what they are doing is any less wrong.
They are in fact evil bastards villainous bastards.

Mid tier is my favorite actually, and plain old chaotic evil is great too. Not every villain needs to be an over-intellectualized and/or sympathetic piece of shit. Honestly that image just reeks of "I like pretending I'm the bad guy but I don't actually want to be bad".

A good villain is a good villain, and his "decency tier" isnt judged by his motives. Honestly whoever put time into making this list is a pretentios twat who needs to get laid

God that was fucking satisfying to watch. I don't even care that manami lost, seeing kirino get the shit beaten out of her was worth it.

>Being immediately understandable on some visceral level is not the same as being interesting or well-written.
It is actually.

but light was acting like an "hero of justice" more so than L when he forgot he was actually kira

...

Best girl, fag didnt deserve her

Yes. The motives definitely impact the enjoyablility of the villain. A villain without good motives isn't a good villain. Just like a protagonist without good motives isn't a good protagonist.

>Not every villain needs to be over-intellectualized
I think the reason more complex, relatable villains are so lauded is precisely because there are so few of them. In real life, even the most monstrous people and societies are convinced they're in the right -- they don't usually act strictly out of selfish, sociopathic desires.

this

The best villain is the anti-villain.

Who?

This is what pretentious teenagers believe. A well-written villain can be anything from a victim of his own well-meant ideals to a crazy demonic edgleord who is fun to watch simply because he's so hateable.

...

>who the hell is the kid in the 'great tier'?
Holy shit

A jump scare is frightening on an immediate, visceral level -- are jump scares emblematic of good horror writing, or are they a shitty technique employed by unimaginative hacks?

This. And I'm sick of seeing this chart posted everywhere. You can take a 'shit/meh tier' villain like Iago from Shakespeare's Othello and then an 'elder god tier' villain like, say, Emperor Charles from CG and it's obvious to anyone with a brain who's more well-written and entertaining.

You gotta be like this guy

>who the hell is the kid in the 'great tier'?
How fucking new are you?

>write a hero
>call it a villain
>perfect

That's always bothered me the most in regard to this list. It's a shallow as thinking that making your (90s anti-)hero an unlikable edgelord will automatically make them deep. The best solution is to go the George R Martin route and to make full use of the alignment spectrum.

Sauron's a bad example but there are plenty of good villains who are pure evil. Most horror villains. Pennywise the Clown, Freddy Kruegger, anything from the Lovecraft Mythos. Generally the more you humanize a villain the less frightening they become; there's an inherent fear to be found in the unknown and inexplicable.

Its honestly shit. The strength of a villain is the person writing them and giving them character beyond their villany. There are villain's with supposed better motivations that are much worse than villains who have "shit" motivations.

That extra slot is easy to fill.

You're horribly wrong.
Ozy literally is saving the world from nuclear conflict. Literally. Just because the heroes do not view it as good. Doesn't mean he is wrong. Therefore he is an antagonist.
Sephiroth is not even human, he is a being from another world who believes himself to be superior. Therefore same as Lavos, just an antagonist.

To be a villain you must do evil for the sake of evil.

Having conflicting viewpoints is not evil.

>Pennywise the Clown, Freddy Kruegger, anything from the Lovecraft Mythos. Generally the more you humanize a villain the less frightening they become; there's an inherent fear to be found in the unknown and inexplicable.
I agree if we're talking specifically about villains in horror movies, but I don't think "how scary is it?" is necessarily a good judge of how successful and interesting a villain is.

Nah
He was ugly and deserved to suffer.

Not him, but someone from Oreimo is as far as my knowledge on that goes. The girl who gut punched Kirino?

His cousin is fine too

>part ebig shitpost
>part honest opinion
Garbage for the simple fact that you put aizen on the list at all. The fucker had no clear motives at all, and when his time came he couldnt fo more than 3 seconds without going on about how big his dick was, all the while getting his face casually stomped in. Also the lol it aizen predicted it all bullshit was 8/10 laziness at its finest

Nobody really cares about a villain's motivation, it's all about the execution.
If your villain has multiple layers of characterization but no charisma, he isn't worth shit.

Squealer did nothing wrong. So much so that it's hard to even characterize him as a villain

Yeah
Even if someone didn't watch the show, it was impossible for someone on Sup Forums to avoid it. The last episode spammed the frontpage of Sup Forums.

>shit tier
>Raphi
>mid tier
>a bus

I lol'd

>Ozy literally is saving the world from nuclear conflict. Literally.
He thinks he's saving the world from nuclear conflict.
And in the end he did nothing but prolong the ineviable and ensured that when the world does go to war it will be demonstrably worse.
He is a villian in every sense of the word.
His own selfish desires and what he thinks he's doing means nothing.

He is a human being with some alien bullshit injected into him.
Every single human being on earth has genes in them that comes from meteorites from beyond the stars. Are we any less human?
He is evil.

Not him but I also tend to forget things I read about a show on Sup Forums if I haven't personally watched it yet.

youtube.com/watch?v=kvg5C7antFM

Read the novel, fag.

Here. I hope you at least recognize all of these characters.

Yes?

This is the only tier list that matters

>god tier
>villains that are well executed and fit the idea and themes of the story

>shit tier
>villains that are poorly executed or clash with the ideas and themes of the story.

>Sauron
>not interesting
It's like you haven't read the Silmarillion

Reminder that Esdeath is Mid Tier while Hisoka is Shit Tier. Akame ga Kill is better than Hunter x Hunter.

Most of them are wrong.

This

back to facebook buddy.

If you're telling me bleach got an LN im going to laugh
If you're telling me to read said light novel im going to reply with the most original response I can think of on the spot

Ganondorf gravitates between Great Tier and Mid Tier, depending on how you interpret his character.

>Reluctant villains who only do evil because of the situation they find themselves in.

Ganondorf is this if you interpret him as a poor soul that got hijacked by Demise´s curse..

>Villains who are only obeying their nature and doing what they do to survive.

Ganondorf is this if you interpret him as a creature form from Demisa´s curse (or as the physical manifestation of the curse itself)

Except there are a whole lot of problem with the braindead plan Ozy used, some pointed out by those around him the moment he unveils what he did, the world was already on the path of disarmament but thanks to his stupid squid attack they are now going to arm themselves to a far greater degree than ever before and that is not even going into the absolute clusterfuck that will ensue the moment they discover that he was the one who did this

Someone give this guy a medal.

>acting
And there's the problem. Deep down all he was was a faggot with a gid complex. Hell as time went on his motives shifted from killing criminals, to taking out anyone who could potentially pose a threat

Dude you're wrong.
Antagonist and villain are different things.
Dr. Manhattan states this, that the logic is not wrong. That this would save countless human life and keep The Earth in some balance. He was not evil.

If Sephiroth is evil than Lavos is evil, using your logic. So either way you are wrong.
Survival is not evil, it's survival. Ensuring your survival, ensuring the survival of your people can never be viewed as evil. It's nature.
Sephiroth is not human, he may have been human while a fetus, but the moment Jenova's viral-like DNA was injected into his embryo sac. He was not human. He therefore can do whatever he wants to ensure his survival.
He is an antagonist in every sense of the word.

We are the only species on OUR planet that can understand good and evil as a concept. So committing good and evil applies to us.
Dogs can not understand good or evil.
You're assuming aliens can also.

If a bunch of aliens came down and destroyed every one of us, are they evil? You have no knowledge of what kind of ethic system they hold, so no they aren't.
Ethics only apply to human action since it's a made up human concept that isn't even a law of nature.

>Irenicus
>Misdeed
The guy tried to suck the life out of the immortality giving tree of the elves, and even then he was still given a chance at redemption if he had showed some remorse.
If anything I'd say his punishment was mild compared to his crime.

It depends on context. You can have a excellnt evil villain and a completely shit "I'm trying to save everyone" villain.

...

>he's hardly a compelling and interesting villain
That's because he lost most of his power by the time the events in LotR unfold. He was frightening enough there, being painted as a larger than life evil, but he was even more frightening in the second age. He was a shape-shifting, cunning and extremely charismatic demi-god who fooled the numenoreans into attacking the Valar - essentially the gods of the setting - and got their entire island sunken by the creator deity itself (who also robbed Sauron of his shape shifting) in the process. Let that sink in, he was so cunning and charismatic that it took the creator deity itself to stop his bullshit.

>Ethics only apply to human action since it's a made up human concept that isn't even a law of nature.
Explain karma

This guy

We barely know anything about him other than insanity and SCIENCE.

Except Ozymandias didn't ensure survival to any great degree, he made everything worse because now everything hinges on a lie, both the public and the government will turn on heroes the moment the truth comes out because the so called heroes have just shown that they are the most dangerous beings in the world and now they have to arm themselves because they don't know when the next "hero" is going to rise up to stir shit or when a nation will try to use their "heroes" to fuck other countries like the US did in the vietnam.

Also why the fuck are you talking about aliens? Ozymandias was full on human even if he had alien DNA on him or some shit, he used human morality to justify his actions.

Also the logic Dr. Manhattan said was not wrong is fucking childish logic at best, even entertaining the idea that the world would become a better place by having a common enemy is dumb beyond belief because the villain would need to keep attacking every once in a while to remind everyone he exists and even then people would simply grow used to it and go back to how they were

Jiren isn't a villain

Considering that utilitarianism is part of ethics and any entity capable of making a cost-benefit analysis will likely do so non-humans are also within the scope of ethics.
The only difference is that they may have an alien value-system.

You are confusing human moral values with the philosophical field of ethics.

Hate to Sup Forumspost, but light is basically the Handsome Jack of Sup Forums.
An obvious bad guy whose fanbae is literally incapable of even the simplest of character analysis, and unironically hail him as a hero

"high tier" is one of the most boring bread and butter villain archetypes there is, id take a mid/meh tier villain over a high tier villain any day

read the fucking thread before you post.
Lavos and Sephiroth are aliens.

You're seriously implying karma exist dude.

explain

> Interesting
> Well-written

Don't use those meaningless, subjective words when you can objectively discuss a character.

How are you morons somehow ignoring the fact that he was named Ozymandias is because of his colossal hubris? His plan was dumb from the very start

This. This guy is one of my favourite villains (and probably the only reason I finished that manga at all) and he's just a killing machine.
Deep villains might be great too of course, there are many stories that would be shit with a cartoon villain and are great with a deep villain, but it all depends of what you're trying to convey and the structure of the work overall.

>Too few iconic characters
The absolute state of Sup Forums.

There's being a weeb and there's not knowing who the joker is.

This tier is fucking shit. Its basically judging a villain entirely on how 'righteous' their motivation is. Which is stupid as villains are generally supposed to be evil. Elder God tier aren't even villains anymore, more like anti-heroes.

ethics are a human invention, why wouldn't an alien race that has evolved space travel move beyond such a simple and relatively pointless waste of time.
Chinese have moved past it, they are easily becoming the most powerful people on the planet.

Light's motivation is to become a god and make the world a better place. L's motivation is to figure out how Kira kills people. L doesn't give a shit about people, he just selfishly wants to challenge his mind with kooky murder mysteries. Light might not be perfect but he's actually far more altruistic than L.

> What are serial killers?

Ozy's evil short sighted actions along with the dissapearance of Manhattan ensures that every government on the planet will speed up their hero programs.
Every single one will want their own Manhattan or super powered living weapon.
He did nothing but start a fucking arms race. Only for the shortest period of time will people be safe from "nuclear annihilation".
In less then a generation people will begin warring with each other using super beings and the world will be worse off in ways then you can possibly imagine.

Sephiroth was both a human and a hero and has the exact same logic and ethics of a human being. He simply gave all of that up when he found out about his past.
If he's a villian that chooses to live in a fantasy where his "mother" and her wannabe lavos alien drive are a good. He REASONED that it was good and him following something that would not have in any way ensure his own survival is logical.
He is a villain and a lunatic.

Also Lavos is an animal one that needs to eat worlds to survive and reproduce. There is no malicious intent.
But that doesn't mean that it should not be put down for wanting to hurt you.
Should you let a dog kill you even if it's intent is only to survive? No

As for the ethics of reasoning alien beings who seek to destroy humanity? Their reason is inferior to ours and means nothing once it becomes clear that they seek to kill us or wipe us out.
Only when two reasoning beings can sit down and come to some understanding and talk things over do their thoughts begin to hold value.

How the fuck is Zamasu great tier when he's just a psycho with a hate boner for ningen?