Would you become her superhero, Sup Forums?

Would you become her superhero, Sup Forums?

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No. I don't like braindead characters.

Yes.

The only thing i hate about heaven's feel is the premise. We've following Shirou fighting tooth and nail for his dream of being a superhero on two stories, with the heroines of both routes having cool personalities. Then we have this. Shirou giving up his dream to protect someone he loves and finally taking that path is conforting, but Sakura is a fucking carboard and not interesting at all. If I recall correctly, Nasu said something about how Rin and Saber are like brothers in arms and Sakura is for cuddling.

>Nasu said something about how Rin and Saber are like brothers in arms and Sakura is for cuddling.
You mean this?

>"Romance" is something where a couple blindly pursue each other's ideals. "Love," on the other hand, is something where two people accept each other, including the painful reality that comes with it

My problem with HF is similar (also, i love HF, but this one thing bothers me tremendously). Unlimited Blade Works showed Shirou reach his greatest potential. He reached his goal of saving everyone, and fought very hard for it. He even defeated his future self, who tried his hardest to convince Shirou to give up. UBW is all about how important Shirou's ideals are to him, and how he managed to make them his own, instead of just a copy of Kiritsugu's ideals. It was an incredible journey to see this, his ideals must have been so important to him.

Then in HF he gives all of that up for a girl.

I get that it's a different version of Shirou, but they are the same guy before the war starts. I also get that the point was to show that he cared about Sakura so much, he placed her above his ideals.

But that's fucking stupid. Ideals, values, personality, these are all things that make a person who they are. Changing that for love is a terrible mistake. He will gove up everything he is for her, and he will be a husk of a man, without passion or purpose.

>Changing that for love is a terrible mistake. He will gove up everything he is for her, and he will be a husk of a man, without passion or purpose.
I disagree, but to each their own.

No, that's not the quote.
Agreed. People usually hate UBW and call it shonen shit, but i love it for the character development on Shirou. I wouldn't mind that Shirou gave up his dream for love or to protect someone he loves, but Sakura is not likeable as a character. Having a shitty life doesn't make up for being a shit character. Also Mind of Steel is a good ending.

Enjoy changing everything you like about yourself, to the point that you hate everything about yourself.

>"Romance" is something where a couple blindly pursue each other's ideals.
The Fate route is the only one that really describes.

Shirou doesn't reach his goal in Unlimited Blade Works, he just refuses to give up on it. He'll probably still end up like Archer.

>People usually hate UBW
I always thought the most hated route was Fate.

Sakura a shit. Saber a best.

>I always thought the most hated route was Fate.
>hating Saber's route

>to the point that you hate everything about yourself.
He's happy at the end of HF though.

I would keep on being a superhero.

It's the most boring of the three.

He doesn't achieve his goals though? He just doesn't give up on them.

Isn't sakura just a dumb roastie. Like her storyline is pretty much how to be a beta and settle for used good. Sacrificing your dream and what not for used goods.

>Shirou doesn't reach his goal in Unlimited Blade Works, he just refuses to give up on it. He'll probably still end up like Archer.

Someone didn't pay attention. Archer only regrets his contract with the World. He hates that he was used as a killing machine without knowing what the benefit was. Saving people for the remainder of his natural life is something that he would never regret.

And Shirou after UBW does not accept the contract witht the World. So he's fine.

I don't personally hate any of them, but Fate is my least favorite.

He does. He becomes a hero, and saves everyone at the end of UBW. Not a single human dies after he beats Archer.

>And Shirou after UBW does not accept the contract witht the World.
Where'd you hear that? I don't remember that from the VN or the new scenes in the anime.

Its easy to be happy in a new relationship. But if you are giving up what makes you "you", life will be awful. It just may take several years for it to happen.

But she is the perfect housewife second to Shirou and her body is so lewd.

HGW's just one event and Gil's fight was mostly thematic. He'll fail eventually, it just won't break him this time since he accepts it unlike Archer.

What gave you that idea? And Shirou was by far the closest to her at the start

Very last scene of the anime, he is older and a hero of justice,, but has orange hair, not white.

As for the VN, its been a while.

Regardless, why would he accept the contract if he is warned that its a raw deal that doesnt actually line up with his ideals?

>new relationship.
Except their relationship isn't new. They went through a lot together.


>But if you are giving up what makes you "you", life will be awful.
That's literally just your own headcanon; you can't seem to let go of the Shirou you followed in the first two routes for whatever reason. Nothing in the end of HF implies that he's unhappy.

Fate is shit because its boring and Shirou doesn't do anything cool other than fight Shinji before Rider arrives at the school, materialize Avalon and stab Kotomine.

>Very last scene of the anime, he is older and a hero of justice,, but has orange hair, not white.
I thought the point of that was that he hadn't given up on his ideals and was still going down the same path that Archer had. I thought it was still before he took the contract.
>why would he accept the contract if he is warned
I don't seem to remember Archer ever warning him about anything.

Yes the Grail War is one event, but it's really notable that UBW is the only route where no humans die in the endings. the last human to die in UBW was Kirei, if I remember correctly. He died days before the end, and before Archer and Shirou finished their fight. Thats huge, in a thematic sense. Once Shirou affirmed his ideals, he was successful.

Also, you dont know that he will fail to save someone eventually. He may save every person who he attempts to save.

Any relationship less than five years old is new. I'm talking on the scale of marriage relationships, not dating.

And yes, there is literally a choice in the game where he has to give up what makes him "him". If he makes the correct choice, it leads to Mind of Steel.

And I understand that he was happy at the end of HF. But that happiness wont last.

>But that happiness wont last.
And once again that is your own headcanon. Nothing implies that the happiness won't last; that's what I'm saying.

That scene is when he is hero of justicimgin the desert. In Archer's desert flashbacks, his hair is already white. It's also likely that Shirou was based in Japan before he made the contract, and wasn't traveling the world yet, since he made the contract in Japan.

And Archer told him all about the contract.Thats how we know about it, because of a scene where Archer tells Shirou about his life.

you're forgetting what led up to this. Fate had some powerhouse scenes.

>wormslut

i'd kill her as soon as i got the chance

The fact that he gives up what makes him "him" implies that it wont last.

You cannot give up your core ideals and values for a relationship and end up happy. It will not work. It has never worked, and it never will.

justicing in*

Literally everything you stated was once again your own headcanon. If you want to think that his relationship with Sakura falls apart in the future (even though it makes no sense to) then so be it, but stop acting as if it was implied anywhere/anytime during the ending.

I didnt say it was implied by the story. Im saying this is based on the facts of life. It will not end well. And even if Nasu wrote an epilogue where they were still happy 40 years later, it would be bullshit.

Never once tried to claim that my interpretation was canon. You interpreted that on your own.

>I didnt say it was implied by the story
Except you did?

>The fact that he gives up what makes him "him" implies that it wont last.

When I saw the thumbnail I thought she was rubbing her cheek on a naked ass

Which is not the story implying it, it is simple reasoning that implies it. The story wants you to believe that Shirou will be happy forever. I get that. I'm saying that based on how life works, he will not be happy.

Like when you watch Cinderella or something. It implies that she and the Prince will be in love forever. Real life experiences tell you that it will most likely be a loveless marriage, because they barely know each other.

>I'm saying that based on how life works
It's a visual novel.

Fantastic argument, I have no rebuttal.

Sakura >>> the world

t. Shirou

Thats not even Sakura.

That's because Sakura is the answer that lies beyond the manchild's dream user.

>Wanting to save lives is a manchild's dream.
Thus spoke the neckbeard.

>Rhino BTFO by Nasu himself
*kek*

see

>UBW is all about how important Shirou's ideals are to him
In a bad way, but sure.
>and how he managed to make them his own
Okay, slow down

>Any relationship less than five years old is new
As of the HF True Epilogue, their relationship is well over five years old and completely idyllic.

>If he makes the correct choice
>correct
>demiya is happy

>The fact that he gives up what makes him "him" implies that it wont last
There's this thing called, "plasticity" that refers to the human mind's ability to change. Across an entire lifetime, the human mind is very flexible. Much like how all the cells in your body will be replaced within around five years, your personality and way of thinking will have changed quite a bit if you aren't crazy. Of course, Shirou is, but he confronts his trauma and decides to worry about things that actually exist. He doesn't destroy his ideals, he merely compromises them so that he can actually see people be happy.

>And even if Nasu wrote an epilogue where they were still happy 40 years later, it would be bullshit
>not headcanon

Fuck you.

>spoken by the real & final Shirou
FTFY

it may as well be, reused character designs are a Nasu staple

>he doesn't know

BB is like Sakura except not shit. Too bad EOPs will never be able to experience her.

Shirou wouldn't say that, dumbass. He loved it.

Is everyone in the thread ok?

1. There is nothing bad about UBW Shirou. He embodies the good parts of Archer, and not the bad. And he did make his ideals his own, Fate Shirou is the one who just copied Kiritsugu.

2. It's two years later, read the VN.

3. Yes, the mind can change over time. Ideals can change over time. But forcing yourself to give it up for someone else is not a natural progression. And yes, he does give up on being a hero of justice. He saves no one but Sakura.

4. Again, I didnt say that it was canon. I'm saying that based on facts of life, he won't be happy. If Nasu writes a happy epilogue 40 years later, it would be bad writing.

>But forcing yourself to give it up for someone else is not a natural progression
Having your ideals actually challenged and being changed by that is pretty much the basis of human progression.

he literaly dies and becomes new person to achive that.

>He saves no one but Sakura.
I don't see the problem desu. Saving Sakura and solely Sakura was the most important thing to him.

It's only natural when youre a fucking idiot who has no conviction, and will change your ideals because you watched a Youtube video or something. Shirou has conviction to spare. It should take years for him to change his ideals, but he drops them in the span of a couple weeks because of a girl.

It's the girl he is in love with.

Ideals > love

Ideals are what form who you are. Never give them up for love. If your ideals arent compatible with the person you love, give up on love. You'll love someone else eventually.

Also, a high school crush isn't love.

Good thing Sakura isn't a mere HS crush. He eventually falls in love with her.

>Ideals > love
That's just your own opinion though.

It's weird how Prisma does it better, because that Shirou is fighting to protect his Imouto.

During the Grail War, which is when he gives uo his ideals, it is a highschool crush.

It's the opinion of people who want to be happy instead of giving up wha ts most important. Love has been put on a pedestal in the West. Yes it's important, but your ideals, convictions, values, and beliefs come first. Be your own person, then find someone compatible with that. Don't find someone, and change yourself to suit them.

They've known each other since middle school and had a stable domestic relationship since. By the start of the story, Shirou openly considers Sakura to be his family.

>During the Grail War, which is when he gives uo his ideals, it is a highschool crush
Sounds to me like you're talking about Rin, if Shirou's actual narration is to be of any indication.

>it's important, but your ideals, convictions, values, and beliefs come first
If it wasn't made clear enough, Shirou's ideals are kind of stupid. He's mentally incapable of distinguishing between an individual and a collective and obsessed with helping people to be happy to the point where other people need to point out to him that he never seems happy about anything.

Honestly, I never got the feeling thst they were close before the Grail War. Yes, she's been helping him around the house for years, but at the beginning of the story, he says he's closer to fucking Shinji than Sakura. They dont seem to talk about anything other than household chores.a

People dont point out that he never seems happy. He seems happy often. They say he wont ever be happy, because he doesnt do anything for himself. But they say this without understanding his character. Rin is baffled by his selfless nature, as mages are typically selfish. She doesnt understand him until near the end of the story.

From my understanding he does accept the contract however like Archer he claims they are different because unlike his CG self, UBW Emiya will never have regrets. I like to think UBW Shirou is the closest one to Nameless, while Fate and Archers own alter-fate route are closet to CG Emiya.

HF is jarring because it comes right after UBW when the two routes compare and contrast with each other. It would make sense if Fate had branched off into either route depending on the player's choices and thus the player could plainly see that the routes are just different possibilities.

While the two are different, the two are also similar in having Shirou be grilled over a fire for his choices: UBW for his pursuit of the ideals and HF for choosing to save Sakura. Shirou is put on trial by his future self in UBW while suffering immensely in HF. But to the end, he stays true to his choices regardless of the consequences. Why? They both satisfy him the most.

Shirou seems like an altruistic machine who exists for the sake of others, but it's clear there is paradoxically a selfish streak to him, a stubbornness to pursue his desires to the point of reckless abandon (which is why even though he's a kind guy, he can come off as kind of a jerk). Shirou desires to bring others happiness, for that is what gives him psychological satisfaction. His ideals are certainly are a part of who he is, which is why parting with them brings him such anguish. But they also serve a means to an end: psychological satisfaction. Shirou envied Kiritsugu when the former saved his life; it was as if Kiritsugu was the one who had been saved through this beautiful act. And I guess you could say Shirou's relationships serve a similar function to his ideals, so he trades his ideals for his feelings for Sakura. MoS isn't wrong (arguably it is the time he should pursue being a superhero, which is Shirou's conundrum is sort of an ethical dilemma), just doesn't bring him the most joy. He becomes his father. Even as he literally and figuratively sacrifices so much of himself, he believes it worth it to save someone dear to him, for that will bring him the most satisfaction.

While the routes have their differences, they all feature a protagonist stubbornly pressing forward in pursuit of his wants.

Was kotomine in the wrong

I LOVE WORMS

>at the beginning of the story, he says he's closer to fucking Shinji than Sakura
I don't recall him making that distinction. He just says that he shouldn't have dirty thoughts about her because she's his friend's sister. I admit they're boring, but that's part of where the cooking memes come from. They enjoy their presence. Compared to non-stop training with Saber or magus' assistant-lapdog for Rin, it's about the same.

When I say that he never seems happy, I mean that they make the observation that he physically does not express happiness, not that he can't find it. His emotional range is basically bored -> mildly annoyed -> cartoonishly flustered.

Unfortunately, the enforced play-order in the original release was deliberately done to show Shirou's evolution and "rebirth" or so to speak. He experiences it in a few different forms, the most literal being the fire followed by Avalon or Heaven's Feel, in both which he gets rid of his unhealthy obsession and finds a way he can live vicariously through others that actually reaches him. It wasn't the act of saving a life, but rather the happiness Kiritsugu felt upon saving a life that Shirou imprinted on. Making that sacrifice to get what he really cares about is what sets him apart from Archer, who lost his way, and Kiritsugu, who realized where he went wrong too late.

Loli >> Sakura

youtube.com/watch?v=_4vZWhX-pZM

Why is Shirou so perfect?

Actually he did.

Further, at the end of HF True, you find out that Sakura went balls to the wall to help get Shirou back, even forgoing her own side effects of being seperated with RB by AM. Rin herself says Sakura ignored that precisely so she could focus on helping him.

She cleaned up the remaining parts of the grail system in Fuyuki and the remnants of AM's taint, and sold tomes that were worth much buck to get Shirou a good body. Basically, she sold off what little monetary compensation she could have gotten for being an experiment for over a decade.

So if you can't even give her a little credit and believe that their relationship can flourish and that the two can look forward to a bright future, I dunno what to tell you friend. I mean, if you are biased against Sakura, that is one thing, but saying their relationship can't work or that Shirou was the only one giving in it, or that he isn't satisfied with his decision is false.

>I admit they're boring, but that's part of where the cooking memes come from. They enjoy their presence.

Is it? It just shows Shirou and Sakura honestly like doing something together.

It's actually refreshing, a girl who learns to cook because she just likes food and wants to learn to cook, and a guy who honestly wants to teach and cares about cooking.

All it means is that it's a mutual love for something they have. Ain't that a good thing for a couple? Most girls you see want to learn to cook to be good wives in anime, Sakura just likes improving her cooking, it was in the VN, but she has several recipe books.

Young girl, Im everyone's hero.

It's just a different spin on Shirou's model of a superhero.
There's nothing wrong in being the hero of your woman instead of the hero of the world.

I want more of this burned Shirou.

>That writing

This is awful.

> but Sakura is a fucking carboard and not interesting at all

Wait i though she wanted his D the most no ?

>limited Blade Works showed Shirou reach his greatest potential. He reached his goal of saving everyone, and fought very hard for it.
That's one way of viewing it. Another way of seeing it is that he saved everyone THIS TIME.

Sooner or later he'll end up either giving up keeping his ideals like in Fate route then end up like Kiritsugu in agony or he'll pick Rin or someone more important than being a hero and go down HF.

Only thing about UBW route is that it delays the inevitable and gives you an open ending to be optomistic about if you're too stupid to see the signs.

Fate = childhood = full of idealism, generally lacking in substance

UBW = adolescence = a middle ground of idealism and substance. Shirou didn't save EVERYONE in UBW. Most of the masters and servants died. Sakura still gets worm raped and abused. You over look it because you're adolescent and don't know shit.

HF = adulthood = idealism is compromised for substance and reality. In this world, Shirou becomes the super hero he wants to and saves the woman he loves. It's the only route he's 100% surely spared of Archer's misery.

With all that said Sakura is the one Shirou loves most. Saber is clearly the most popular. And Rin is my personal favorite of the 3. Waifufags don't complain.

>. It's the only route he's 100% surely spared of Archer's misery.

I would only become a superhero for a pure girl.

I'll never put my dick in that thing knowing worms have been raping her for years.

Human life isn't just the teens like they show in those games and shows

Still it's not like shirou ruined his life for sakura he just gave up on crazy idea in his idead or more like his dream, he can just live on after HF like normal man and marry sakura

He value his ideals so much because it's his father legacy so to speak who he respected and admired so much, it's also part how he want make up for ignoring all the people in need when he survived the fire accident back when he was kid

Ultimately it's really just the authors just wanting to try something new with shirou, the way the story and shirou comes across his ideals in HF is totally different than Fate and UBW, for once his ideals are viewed as wrong and only bring me sadness and it's only blacking him from saving sakura

Yes in fate and UBW people tell him he's wrong with it but shirou viewed it as his pride and purpose in life and even after everything archer did he refuse to give up on it

IMO shirou giving up on his ideals for a pussy doesn't make sense because it's something grown in him since the time kiritsugu took him and his ideals aren't copy from kiritsugu really, the way he try to archive is different than kiritsugu, the only time where he become carbon copy of kiritsugu is "the mind of steel " ending

Even as a Sakura fan, I have to say that trying to invalidate the other routes is just as bad as the fans of other routes trying to invalidate HF. I don't like it.

It goes against hie believes he carried his entire life and it's BS, unless your believes are weak from the very beginning you can't change it that easily and we know from the previous two routes shirou is dead serious about his ideals

>Ideals > love

I agree but that just opinion it can change from person to another, there some people who value their ideals above everything, others just live the day without thinking of it, there tons of people who would throw their ideals for their loved ones

The problem with HF is that they show shirou throwing his ideals for some girl after they slam it into our heads for dozen of hours of gameplay, in UBW he goes through a lot of hell to keep his ideals but in HF he throw it from the first issue he face

I mean com'n man this is just out of character, most of the bad people around the people are people with terrible past and faced a lot of abuse and or were loaded with wrong ideas unless they are bat shit insane doe that mean we take pity of them and let them be ?

That's not shirou though.
It's literally a puppet that sakura made with less humanity then shirou had after the fire.

Shirou's dies in this route.

Miyu shirou is badass so it's fine ~

srsly tho miyu shirou is way different than FSN shirou

He saved her and saved the city though. If he only wanted to save her life he wouldn't have gone as far as he did because it would have been pointless to save her and have the city and most of Japan destroyed before the Counter Force floored the rest. When they say he abandoned the ideal, it's not "I gave up wanting to help people", it's "I gave up turning myself into a machine to help people". An ideal is only ephemeral principles, it's how the person lives and enforces them that is important. Batman, Superman, and Spiderman are heroes, but how and for what reason they save people is different.

What the dilemma even was is because he had a lack of pertinent information to help Sakura. And how informational warfare can be quite powerful. Rin and Shirou (and Sakura too to a point) almost let themselves be tricked by Zouken and Kirei. Killing Sakura would have been something that would be a mistake.


Also I think people have this romanticized view of Shirou and forget that while the ideal itself was not wrong, he himself was denying himself in various ways. He would claim to be over the fire and losing his parents, but the very days after Kiritsugu adopted him, he would walk to the burned field and wave to a Mother that wasn't there. The boy is messed up and most don't acknowledge that because they want some avatar of "justice" that forgets how things aren't black and white in this world. They forget the various themes presented in all the routes that show and develop Shirou as a character, and don't see Shirou as anything more than a vehicle for the ideal.

Because he was actually challenged for once, in this route, they literally tell him
>choose your ideals
or
>choose this girl who clearly loves you and has been through so much shit you cna't even imagine
And he decided to be her hero, after Ilya and Archer told him it wasn't bad to do the selfish and 'wrong' thing for once in his life (this conversations are really important to the whole rain scene).

But stripping him of what little humanity and agency he has and forcing a terrible lovestory and nonsensical change out of nowhere on him all for the sake of a happy ending is bullshit.
The only happy ending he can have is to work through the pain of the fire and come to terms with his broken world view.
To find a way to be the hero emiya but to not become archer and hate himself.
He's not going to have that with sakura or saber and maybe not rin.
It make sense that his path in life is a lonely one.

And sakura is a murderous rapist monster who he litterally lets off scott free because she gets his dick hard.
He's litterally worse then gilgamesh now.

The fuck?

If you don't love people, you'll eventually become something twisted and alien trying to be a hero. Because the very basis of wanting to help others must come from love, or its just empty duty.

Look at any hero. The want to help others and take up the cause came from a place of emotion, the same can be said for Shirou. Trying to seperate the two is folly.

>There's nothing wrong in being the hero of your woman

You are loser if you can't be this to your women and really isn't that what everyone want ? a true hero is hero in the eyes of everyone

If Sakura wasn't irrelevant in the first two routes then her being Shirou's true love would be easier to understand.

He wasn't stripped of his humanity, because the vessel he is in is pretty much the same as a humans. Bait as you might try to lay here, even Rin herself says that the body he got was indistinguishable from the body he was born with. The only flaw seems to be from the magical energy not flowing correctly, so currently, he needs someone to help him until they rectify that issue. Nor did he stop wanting to help people, because as the ending showed, he was helping Issei at the temple with the renevations for the damage caused by the collapse of the underground cavern.

And he didn't "let Sakura off scot-free", he told her to live with the things she did, see Liberation. Hell, for being just as much of a victim of the war as anyone else, she does more to make amends than the Einzberns ever did by becoming Guardian of Fuyuki and cleaning up the mess afterward, and permanently dismantling the Grail system. If you're gonna bait, at least know what you're talking about.

>It's literally a puppet that sakura made with less humanity then shirou had after the fire
>the puppet was an authentic artificial human made by touko
>the soul and everything in it was actually shirou's
You're a retard.