(The Secret of Mahoutsukai no Yoru's Birth, Published in TYPE-MOON Ace 2, tsukikan...

>(The Secret of Mahoutsukai no Yoru's Birth, Published in TYPE-MOON Ace 2, tsukikan.com/misc/the-secret-of-mahou-tsukai-no-yorus-birth.html)
>Nasu:
> Tsukihime and Fate are more about projecting yourself as the heroes, seeing through the eyes of Shiki and Shirou while experiencing adventurous scenarios, where the players should feel they have played a very fun game. Mahoutsukai no Yoru is played in the third person, the players can't project themselves onto any characters. They can't place their feelings on top of a character, but instead feel happy being in the position where they can over see the complicated story between the three main characters. To be happy not only about a particular character, but about the world view, this is how I intend it to be.

Checkmate, Fatefags.
Refute this.

OP is a fag

Yes, I self-insert into a sword autists that kills himself for the sake of strangers.

whoever wins, fatefags lose

>Tsukihime and Fate are more about projecting yourself as the heroes
Holy fucking shit. Did Nasu seriously think people could self insert in that pair of batshit insane protagonists?
Now I'm wondering if she is some kind of sociopath with a genuine seafood fetish.

>there are people that DON'T self-insert in Shirou right now
It's the most normal thing to do.

To be fair, I could argue that Shiki is somewhat of a self-insert since he's faceless for 99% of the VN.

Shirou is not a self insert thay said

taken from the previous thread

>main protagonist
>dull yet strong-willed personality
>make dozens of choices leading to different outcomes, with multiples bad endings, a good end, and a true end
>revolves around relations and fighting

>not a self-insert because he makes his own choices in the show, clearly demonstrating that he is a well-written developed and independent character along with his own story

so is this guy not a self insert because i don't see myself as a fuccboi emitting supernatural pheromones and summoning blasphemous demons in the name of god?

Yeah, Nasu intended for him to be a self-insert of the sorts but then gave him a personality.

Why do you keep making the same thread?

I can agree to that. Anyone arguing that Shirou is a self-insert is braindead though.

Fuck you, OP, and fuck you Natsu.
No one could possibly self insert in your shitty VN.
That's wrong.
That's wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong,
wrong, wrong, wrong, wrongwrong,
wrong, wrong, wrong, wrongwrongwrong,
wrong, wrong, wrong, wrongwrongwrongwrong,
wrongwrongwrong, wrongwrongwrongwrong, wrongwrongwrongwrongwrong,
wrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrong, wrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrong,
wrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrong,
wrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrong----

What if I don't want to disagree with it?

The vast majority of VN protagonists are meant to be self-inserts. That's why they always have those long drawn-out internal monologues to make the reader feel more in tune with the character. They don't have to be a cardboard cutout of be self-insert bait.

as someone who self identifies as a sword with a love of other swords, Shirou is my ideal protagonist and am glad I have someone similar to self insert as.

As someone who recently came out as wormsexual, Shirou is also my ideal protagonist and I'm glad I have someone with similar tastes to self insert as.

This, who doesn't love swords?

This, who doesn't love worms?

1st person vs 3rd person

>They don't have to be a cardboard cutout of be self-insert bait.
That's what they are 99% of the time. Shiki is a little different since he actually has a personality; even besides the whole Nanaya edge thing.

I am a profet, and I will say that this thread will be reposted until the end of times.

spearfags.

I'm an actual prophet (learn how to spell it at least, faggot), and this thread will be reposted for a while and then will die when the HF movie provides us with far more assblasting bait material.

Well I wouldn't say 99% of the time, but yeah, just because they aren't though doesn't make them not self-insert bait. The visual novel as a medium is pretty much tailor made for that purpose so it's actually a rare and refreshing thing when the trend is bucked. Shiki is a bit better than most but he is still pretty easy self-insert bait, though it's a good thing since Tsukihime is a very personal and intimate VN.

So Nasu is braindead?

Swords are great. Unless they're Saber.

even if you don't see yourself self-inserting a character, that doesn't mean it wasn't intended to be a self-insert character. people in the last thread were so adamant how their preference is the only truth.

Him having a personality doesn't mean that he isn't a self-insert.
He is a self-insert because we want to be him.

Yes. He fucking retcons shit left and right and can't keep the universe he created straight.

>Him having a personality doesn't mean that he isn't a self-insert.
Yes it does.

Spearfag reporting. Glaives are the best

Cockblocking bitch deserves it.

>He is a self-insert because we want to be him.
But that can apply to literally any character. What's the point of calling someone a self-insert if that's what you mean by it?

You don't self-insert as Shirou?

I'm not a sword autist that wants to see everyone smile at the cost of my own happiness.

>the universe
>the
That's Nasu's problem, he's trying to force all his works in the same universe when they could work better separately.

>implying that you don't
Everyone in Sup Forums does.

What if saving people makes me happy?

is shirou even a sword autist? from the vn, sure he talks about swords a few times but so does everyone else. wouldn't he be a junk autist instead considering he has all this useless crap in his shed instead of swords?

But Sup Forums can't relate to Shirou because he gets infinitely more pussy than them, can cook like your average Gordon Ramsay, has a stable job, good grades and is a wealthy man, has a big thicc dicc and is ripped af.

Nasu also says that KnK is his worst work and he feels embarrassed about thinking that he wrote it.

Authors always say stupid shit about their works in all eras.

Would you let your self almost get sliced in half to save someone you just met a few hours ago?

Yeah, who would want to self-insert in that

>wouldn't he be a junk autist instead considering he has all this useless crap in his shed instead of swords?
If he practiced his daily projection on swords instead of junk he would be dead or at least have a mighty tan and white hair like Acha.

I don't know.
Maybe.
But I wouldn't want to to see my relatives sad or something so I don't know.

>But I wouldn't want to to see my relatives sad or something so I don't know.
That's different. It's normal to protect people you care about. But Shirou literally values other people's lives over his own including complete strangers.

It's not about wanting, it's about being able to.
Self insertion is not "I want to be him" it's more like "I can see myself in him".

All heroes in action/adventure fiction are self-inserts because they're adolescent male/female fantasies. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Welcome to fiction, enjoy your stay.

No, I mean that if I die I don't want to let the people that liked me be sad.
I am guy that is really instinctive, so I don't know.

That definition renders the criticism meaningless.

That's where you are wrong kiddo

that may be so, but that doesn't describe him as someone overly infatuated with swords. shirou may have an affinity with swords since some asshole put a sheathe in him so he could suffer more, but where in the novel does it explain that he simply "loves swords"?

A self-insert character is a character made for the audience to insert themselves into him/her. This usually entails that they are generic/band and lack any real distinguishing features.

Are you seriously calling this guy an adolescent fantasy?

...

Wish-fulfillment characters don't necessarily mean they're perfect or are not broken. There has to be some kind of power fantasy involved. Even Spike Spiegel is a self-insert male fantasy.

Yes, that's nothing more that rule of cool, don't pretend there is something more than that.

Nanaya mode Shiki is pretty edgy and a power fantasy.

How am I going to shitpost otherwise?

This, after all is the thrill and the conflict that drives me to self-insert as the characters.

>implying anyone would want Spike's trainwreck of a life
He's more like a fantasy turned nightmare.

okay that does make a lot of sense now, thanks. though it seems that he was merely discovering his love for them just then.

>Even Spike Spiegel is a self-insert male fantasy.
If you totally ignore his character and only focus on the cool action moves, sure.

I want it, it's the trainwreck and lots of conflict that makes life worth living after all.
If there isn't conflict in my life, I suffer from existentialism.
That's why Shirou is a self-insert character.

>If there isn't conflict in my life, I suffer from existentialism.
Holy shit my sides user easy on the shitposting.

>If there isn't conflict in my life, I suffer from existentialism.

>Saber's sword
>Shirou's sheath
They had to have done what I'm currently thinking of at least once.

>I want it, it's the trainwreck and lots of conflict that makes life worth living after all.
>If there isn't conflict in my life, I suffer from existentialism.

I got the ultimate self insert for you, user.

Yes, they did some friendly sparring in the dojo.

>Shiki and Shirou are self insert shit for babies

So even fucking Nasu admits it?

>Rin's gem sword
>Saber's sheath
This too.

...

>taking Nasu's word seriously
Come on now.

He admitted he tried to write them that way.
But since he is an autist himself, his idea of a self insert character is quite unrelatable for most people.

Nah, Shirou is so dense he would probably end up being pegged by Saber.

This. When you read from a first person perspective you are seeing through their eyes, regardless of whether they are a "good" proxy for a normal person.

both Shirou and Shiki are on the surface, but Shirou's personal beliefs are abnormal and shiki slowly goes insane.

A self-insert isn't necessarily someone who has to be relatable. Plenty of MCs are so cringeworthy that I'm sure plenty of otaku and people here cannot relate to them. However, we as spectators are placed in their shoes. Their minds are open to us. The narrative is written from their perspectives. Their choices are ours to make (even if they lead to Bad Ends).

The average VN protag is made precisely so that you can place yourself in their shoes, even if they aren't cardboard cutouts.

How in the FUCK did this nigga turn so brown!

Overusing special magic does shit to your body.

He also spent too much time saving worthless trash in third world countries.

He got a nuclear tan.

I don't understand the problem here. Shiki and Shirou are not self-inserts and Nasu isn't saying they are here. He's merely saying that F/SN and Tsukihime were written with the intent of viewing the world from that specific character's view point which is something pretty self-explanatory if you read the VNs since they're primarily in first person. Whether you closely personally identify as Shiki or Shirou is entirely up to you. In contrast, Mahoutsukai no Yoru is in third-person and thus is not intended to give only a specific character's perspective.

It's pretty easy because he's incredibly autistic and has retarded ideas about the world, just like Sup Forums. Shiki is actually harder to self-insert into, though not by much, since he has some semblance of intelligence and self-awareness.

Shirou isn't a dum dum. There are plenty of other characters in the story even more naive than him like Seiba.

That's why I don't understand the argument in this thread. Most VNs are supposed to be about self-inserting, and it's not the same thing as wish-fulfillment.

Shut up Hakuno

Shiki is a self-insert in some of the routes, but in anything where he undergoes mindbreak you can see his actual personality. But he's developed much of a personality through the various spinoffs (especially KT which leads to his characterization in Melty), and he's got quite a strong personality in the Tsukihime manga as well.
If you analyze it a bit you can see how Shiki's personality progressed from a moderately blank canvas to the snarky optimist he is now.

She's just naive though. Shirou is a low-functioning autist whose self-image is that of a child.

This guy is more of a self-insert VN character than Shirou is. Not sure why you would self-insert as the poor bastard but you can if you want.
He
>Isn't a wizard
>Doesn't have retarded life goals
>Doesn't love swords to a degree which is unhealthy
>Is unhealthy to the degree that 16 year old girls can run faster than him
>Considers raping one of the characters at one point
>Kind of just stumbles into time travel by accident
>Was only pretending to be retarded
The perfect self insert for Sup Forums

What's to refute? Shirou is based as fuck. I wish I could be as great as him, although I know I never could be.

Sup Forums goes full autismo again.

>yourself
fuck off, you don't know me
also fate a shit

>Shirou is a low-functioning autist
Patently untrue.

Shirou doesn't fall under anything really.

There's no time to obsess over swords when someone is in trouble, or something serious is happening.

>Was only pretending to be retarded

EMIYA is actually a gun autist. He dislikes Alter because Alter had the idea to turn the swords into guns. I think it goes like this.
Shirou: Sword Autist
Emiya: Gun Autist
Emiya Alter: Suffering Autist

My nigga

Glaives are pretty sweet.

Emiya is just operator rather than full blown gun autist

I thought he didn't like Alter because of how he treated his ideals when it came to fighting Kiara and her cult. The gun thing was just a jealous "Damn, why didn't I think of that?" thing.