Higher minimum wage = less reliance on government handouts and higher participation in the economy. How is that bad?
>inb4niggers don't deserve it
Can someone explain to me why raising the minimum wage is bad?
Luke Thompson
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Henry Kelly
Why not raise it to $10000000 an hour then? Imagine how well off we'll be!
Mason Turner
>the govenment can make money out of air
*sigh* wages should be unregulated and there should be no welfare. Family Values will pick up the slack, with charitable families taking good people under their wings, and society flourishing.
Anthony Cooper
because small business owners can't afford it
Justin Young
they can
they just jack up their prices
Daniel Lee
I cant wait to be making the same as mcdonalds employees come october. And move back in with my mom at 31 years old. And not be able to afford anything besides bills. Woo raising the minimum wage is such a good thing. Moron
Hunter Watson
There are people's whose labor isn't worth 9$/hr
Gabriel Jackson
>they just jack up their prices
>minimum wage goes up
>price of everything also goes up
yay
Juan Powell
So then either negotiate with your employer for a raise, attain more skills, or just quit and work a McDonalds job since it's apparently easier?
Carson Brown
I don't think you know what century you're living in.
Henry Roberts
more money = more taxes = higher cost of living. fucking retarded ass leaf
Joseph Phillips
Start a business and then you tell me
Luis Garcia
Because when you raise minimum wage, the price of everything begins to rise. It's called inflation. Get a better job you lazy fuck. You're destroying our currency.
Gavin Bennett
It should be raised periodically to keep up with inflation.
But raising it suddenly to about double the current standard is asking for another economic crash.
Jackson Rogers
Minimum wage was created as a eugenics policy to keep blacks out of the work force.
Unfortunately, we also implemented a welfare system which keeps the blacks alive and voting democrat.
Caleb Ramirez
Yes, and plenty of muggings and burglaries and people starving in the streets. But just shoot them, right?
>family values
>charitable families
>mfw
Wyatt Johnson
right
Alexander Baker
There should be no minimum wage.
Caleb Butler
>Can someone explain to me why raising the minimum wage is bad?
If you don't understand this diagram, user, you're an imbecile. The problem is clearly proven right there.
Brayden Wood
Because this:
youtu.be
Isaiah Cook
If minimum wage kept up with inflation like it was originally supposed to then it would already be around $15/hr. The layoffs from Walmart and the like for the pay raises are due to maintaining their (((shareholders))) profits when they could easily pay everyone more without layoffs.
Austin Johnson
>If minimum wage kept up with inflation
Inflation is partly CAUSED by minimum wage, you fucking imbecile. You're basically saying, if only my clothing would grow larger as a direct result of all the tubs of butter I eat every day...
Adam Fisher
Because productivity does not rise at the same pace.
How are you going to keep paying a higher wage to a person who still produces as much as what he/she is producing without the wage increment?
>inb4 a better paid employee is a more motivated employee
Chase Russell
Kek
Ryder Ward
The buying power of each individual dollar will go down, so having a higher number in your bank account doesn't mean you can "buy more shit".
Only people with a low IQ think minimum wage going up is a good thing.
James Hall
Businesses shrink to account for increased operating costs. Prices will then go up to match those operation cost. All this does is price out a bunch of businesses that would of provided that service and, in return, will raise the price.
All raising the minimum wage does is slap a bandaid on the wound and let it sit and fester into inflation and less jobs. It also gives more incentives to hire illegals and to replace costly human workers with automated devices.
Ryder Parker
exactly
wooptidoo
Jackson Bailey
...
Jose Thomas
That vid mentions the car industry creating millions of jobs when they became a thing 100 years ago, but cars became a thing in the late 1800s but weren't big back then and didn't start getting big until the 1900s and even then it only got bigger throughout the last century. Sure car job creation has stagnated but he uses faulty logic to say today's new industries aren't as effective for job creation when we're around the stage cars would have been in maybe the turn of the last century.
Also, lump of labor fallacy.
en.wikipedia.org
David Adams
stupid automation happens regardless
Logan Cooper
Ayyyy macro economics 101. Thanks for posting this. A graph is better than long winded explanations.
Blake Brooks
>Friedmanite scum textbooks
If you can't afford to pay minimum wage, don't start a business you useless boomer shit.
Jackson Hernandez
Nothing matters until the Federal Reserve Bank is blown to shit
Luis Evans
Suffice it to say, raising the minimum wage to an excessively high rate would exert inflationary pressure on the economy, but increasing it to keep pace with inflation would only have a minimal effect.
investopedia.com
Ian Morris
Empirically, it does not cause unemployment and doesn't cause "inflation".
Its clear none of you know what is inflation even is, so this is a stupid discussion. Its interesting that its North Americans who suffer from this affliction, bravo to the central bankers for corrupting the education system this far I guess.
Owen Smith
Higher minimum wage = higher costs on low wage produced products.
>they can
>they just jack up their prices
Which Corporations don't need to do, and it still puts them out of business.
Ultimately, it just allows corporations to run a monopoly on cheap labour until inflation catches up enough that small business can compete again.
It's a shitty idea. Minimum wage should be like $5, taxes should be less than half of what they are now and prices would drop by 50% over night.
People are not poor because they don't make enough money at their minimum wage job. People are poor because they are already making more than minimum wage, and can't afford to buy anything because of the carbon taxes and wage increases.
Cut everything. We are just making a massive debt with absolutely no benefit to the citizens. We are spending millions on expensive abstract social programs for 1% of the population, while the other 99% pays for it.
Christian Cruz
... or not increasing minimum wage would lead to deflation.
Samuel Barnes
Deflation is bad for people with debts user, inflation is good for them, moderate inflation as described is the best middleground.
Camden Hernandez
You are an idiot.
thestar.com
Christian Morris
boss:
oh fuck me now I have to pay even more ? NO fuck this, BILL give me the automations department we are going to make this entire store run by robots IM FUCKING DONE!
also boss:
OH FUCK ME MORE MINIMUM WAGE F THIS! From now on we only take in Phd's, if I'm paying this much at least I want competent people not some fucking random NEET who never studied darwinism!
also every other boss:
HOLLY SHIT MORE MINIMUM, TIME TO DISPROPORTIONALLY RAISE ALL THE PRICES ON ALL THE SHIT!!!
user (you) : still jobless, now it's even harder (have a PhD or become a fucking robot) and your doritos just got 2 bucks more expensive.
Asher Miller
Yes, debt is bad. I agree.
Jaxon Ramirez
EXPLAIN IT IN FEELINGS BIGOT
Mason Ross
>coporations dont need to do
kek corporations will match up prices anytime
no one competes on prices
Robert James
Higher mininum wage -> Higher prices -> Poverty Floor rises -> welfare handouts go up.
The only way to fix it is to cut down on the labor supply (get strict on bringing outside labor) and to implement birth control with welfare handouts (no birth control means no welfare). The problem will work itself out in ~20 years when the only people having kids can actually, you know, afford it. Also; if you haven't worked in 2 years you have a mandatory mental health check.
Austin Morgan
No they won't.
They'll "almost" price match, so they are always priced lower, or just take a revenue hit and put everyone else out of business. They can easy throw away free shit for a few months to put the small businesses out.
It's not even worth eating at a restaurant anymore, It's like $20 for a tiny meal and a beer.
Eli Gomez
>2008 in the wake of the American financial crisis
not even relevant to the discussion retard
Josiah Jones
>raise the minimum wage
>businesses have to raise their prices, inflation goes up
>no one can survive on this wage anymore! It’s not keeping up with inflation!
>raise the minimum wage
>repeat
Wow it’s almost like libshits don’t understand economics
Ryan James
Comp's are harder to come by desu
Mason Robinson
who cares anyway? usa debt has proven to the world that it won't crash (biggest military force if need be) also raising minimum wage is politicaly sound for the left.
Tyler Ross
a similar graph can prove how lowering rent creates homelessness.
Cameron Peterson
>no one starts a business because due to labor costs there’s no money to be made
>unemployment goes through the roof
>Wow now the government has to force people to start businesses at a loss.
>entrepreneurs want to leave the country for greener pastures
>”WE CANT ALLOW THEM TO LEAVE!”
Now you understand why the Berlin Wall existed
Jordan Torres
minimum wage IS a government hand out
Caleb Long
Oh, sorry
>2008
cbc.ca
>2010
cbc.ca
>2011
thestar.com
>Ontario Minimum Wage Hike Being Passed On To Consumers, StatCan Data Shows
huffingtonpost.ca
S
Mason Jackson
the jews dont like it and Sup Forums has to appease the master
Mason Sanders
Inflation and deflation have nothing to do with wages, they are phenomena of money supply.
We face devastating deflation in the global economy. A small hint is that upwards of 16 trillion dollars was chucked into this bottomless pit and we're lucky to find 2% inflation as a result.
I will also point out if what you "common sense" economists who use long words you don't understand say is true, it is impossible for any society to become wealthier.
The minimum wage is just a small redistribution, it doesn't create or destroy money (as you seem to think). It increases, very slightly, velocity of money because poor people spend more of their income than extremely wealthy people. But as noted, if you are worrying about inflation in 2018, congratulations, its you and the EU central bank whose anti-inflationary policies you can see powering Italy and Greece to greatness.
Brandon Kelly
it avoids the actual issue which is a labor surplus
you can't just mandate businesses pay more while you flood the country with immigrants and hand out H1Bs like candy
not only will the prices of goods and services provided by those workers increase, their increased demand will exacerbate that
meanwhile people who already made more than the minimum will have to suffer these extra costs without any additional income to offset it
it's nothing but another insidious way to harm the middle class without admitting that labor shortages are good for workers
Aaron Watson
>misgendering IS hate speech
why do you need to faggottry your point
Hudson Bell
Artificially raising the price of labor doesn't make cheap labor more valuable. It just effectively bans cheap work. And yes, I know you can't raise a family on one minimum wage job. Lots of people need or want work who aren't raising a family.
Xavier Wilson
if a low min wage is so great, why not make it $0 an hour. Then we'll all be rich when it trickles down!
Luke Wilson
Correct.
And again
What's wrong with deflation?
It does increase the money supply, because it increases costs, forces borrowing, and increases the money supply.
Instead of saving money, paying off debts and ending interest payments.
Hudson Jones
The financial crisis of 2008 was not caused by the minimum wage.
Maybe stop calling other people "idiot" Professor Google?
Joshua Hall
I agree, abolish minimum wage.
Thomas Howard
see
Ryan Diaz
Businesses only hire labor when it makes them a profit. With the minimum wage, all the businesses that normally would hire people for 5, 6, 7 $/hr can no longer make a profit, so they fail/downsize. Then all the people who aren't skilled enough to be worth minimum wage don't get jobs.
Liam Adams
wasnt japanese supposed to be intelligent?
Ian Turner
>Implying that you’re literally stupid enough to take a job that doesn’t pay anything
Logan Torres
na
theyll actually charge more bc they have added value
brand name
costumer service
etc
most industries are some kind of poly anyway
Blake Rogers
better yet, we make people pay to work! When min wage is a negative number, it won't be a trickle down, it'll be a torrential down pour of riches. A golden shower, if you will.
Hudson Green
thats not what the graph says
Xavier Jones
Because a minimum wage doesn't allow me to out compete you for labor market share as it makes hiring each of us an equal liability and significant loss of profit. Driving up inflation of prices while deflating purchasing power. I'm against ANY minimum wage laws, let alone alot of labor laws. Please utilize me for 60 hours a week at the same employer without overtime so I can actually afford something!
Joseph Hill
If we raise the wages, companies will automate and we'll lose jobs.
Unless Trump is the one raising wages via tariffs and stimulus spending. Then everyone benefits and there are no downsides at all.
Aaron Collins
>...raising wages via tariffs and stimulus spending.
Not how that works dude.
Ethan Russell
Who is dumb enough to work for free?
People will get paid what they are willing to get paid, instead of the wage bar being set to a limit only corporations can afford.
I'm not sure why Liberals love corporations m so much and absolutely hate small business and franchise owners..
Ryder Turner
But automation is being developed whether the minimum wage increases or not. Sooner or later people will be replaced by robots anyway.
Andrew Jenkins
You think spending money and preventing imports make wages go down?
Please tell me how the crayons taste today.
Dominic Mitchell
But there is a minimum wage and unemployment is not through the roof.
Juan Collins
Small businesses sell brand name products.
If Walmart and K-mart are both selling the same product, but Walmart is willing to cut the price by 5%, people will shop at Walmart.
And
Oh..
businessinsider.com
Benjamin Long
Work is worth what it's worth. I know it's hard, but imagine you are the business owner, and all salaries come out of your pocket.
Maybe it'd be cool to have someone hand out hot towels to your customers. Or whatever. Not $1,000 a month cool, but maybe $500 a month cool. You'd pay $500 a month for this service. When the government insists that the service must cost $1,000 you don't pay it, the the job just goes away.
Maybe some downie or an ex-con could have got his foot in the door and now he doesn't. Why is that good? The people who thought that wasn't enough money could try for a different job. And the customers don't get the extra service either. But you can only legislate the price, not the value.
Zachary Mitchell
>Sup Forumstards complain about third worlders taking their jobs
>hurrr abolish minimum wage!
>third worlders will settle for $3/hr making it a net negative for the same people that complain about third worlders that take their jobs
Nicholas Hall
There are still obvious drawbacks to protectionist policies. We can employ more people in America in better jobs, yielding more money in the pocket, but due to the trade restrictions, that money has less value when purchasing imported goods.
So you’ll have more money, but it won’t be worth as much.
Blake Nguyen
I wrote a paper on this subject. Basically I supported a limited increase in minimum wage. This was because the supply/demand model a lot of libertarians use is too simplistic for realistic macro cases. You can have multiple market equilibrium. Also there was a study that found an increase in minimum wage increased unemployment by 2% however it was still a raise for 98% of people. There has been a change in general opinion of economist on the subject since 1996 economist have been able to do better "natural" experiments on the study of economics and they generally support the minimum wage.
For example
epi.org
Sean Last of the alternativehypothesis is a Post Keynesian and he has spoken out in support of raising the minimum wage. I wish he didn't take down his econ videos desu, why I bring him up is that even on the alt right there are people who support raising the minimum wage
Nolan Hill
Unless it's conservatives in the U.K. who want to cut tariffs. Then they are terrible and getting rid of them is the best thing you can do in an economy.
Carter Nguyen
tarrifs are for tax income.
stimulus spending is (supposed to be) for infrastructure.
You're just assuming we still won't be buying everything from China still. If they and others don't sell to us they go bankrupt, all it will do outside of releaving the US taxpayer is shuffle around the deck chairs and cause inflation overseas.
Lincoln Flores
wrong pic
Ryder Watson
is walmart the cheapest store in the us?
are we only talking about grocery retailers?
Benjamin Perry
But that's not a meritocracy.
Which is what I thought we are all aiming for.
The slackers end up starving.
Xavier Adams
Make it $0 and let the market reach equilibrium. Let people whose labor isn't worth $15, work for $12, or $10, or whatever they are worth, instead of making nothing and requiring welfare.
Ryder Wilson
Yeah no shit.
>Third world makes $3, spends $10 on groceries for the week
>Leaf makes 15$, spends 50% instantly on tax, most of it goes to third worlders and their families, spend $100's a month on groceries, including overhead for wages, carbon taxes, sales taxes, more taxes, etc etc so fat people can ride scooters for free and third world countries can have a military
>Be unemployed, don't make any money. Minimum wage makes all things unaffordable on welfare, ask the Government for more money, increases taxes
What's the problem here? Money =/= Wealth
My $15 isn't worth more than their $3, if my food bill is 10x the cost.
Justin Flores
But user how am I going to afford all my useless shit if I work on a real living wage instead of a middle class wage.
James Hernandez
What other retail stores do you think exist in Canada?
Target?
Nope.
ottawa.ctvnews.ca
There's Giant Tiger, maybe Canadian Tire, and that's about it.
Ian Barnes
How about abandoning the 40 hour week or would people working two jobs fuck everything up?
Carter Nelson
The biggest competition for Walmart these days is from the Dollar Store, but that tells you something about how much products actually cost, and how much the overhead costs.
Jordan Peterson
30 hour work week*
then it goes into overtime.
Please kill me.
Isaiah Robinson
You'll have more expendable income since your cost of living hasn't risen in tandem with minimum wage inflation.
Another option is studying/training and getting a real job.
Jack Russell
Because of I N F L A T I O N
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F
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A
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I
O
N
Kayden Wood
wow how dare you provide graphs, evidence, and logistical arguments you fucking RACIST BIGGOT you dont care about the poor at all!
Jordan Lewis
Some people will work less (like high school students) however there is evidence of general increase in productivity from being paid more; this is part of the reason I brought up the multiple market equilibrium graph.
Mason Miller
cough.... leaf
now thats out of da whay...
Lets say i can only afford $100 for employment. I hire 10 people for $10 each. I need at least 6 people to complete the task.
Now the gov comes in and say that I half to pay $25 min wage. now I can only afford 4 employees. 6 people lost their jobs and now the quality of my service/ product suffers due to insufficient labor. I can either hire illegal aliens or buy robots to make up the labor gap.
thats why it sucks
Logan Robinson
The 30 hour work week is long overdue. With the current costs of production we're looking at a 25 or even 20 hour work week. That is only if companies don't want to decrease their x5-x20+ the actual cost prices.
Carson Foster
You want the truth on minimum wage? Check this shit out.