Why wasn't One Piece as big as Naruto in the west?

Why wasn't One Piece as big as Naruto in the west?

Is 4kids to blame? Or the goofy artstyle?

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The west (and by extension the rest of the world outside of Japan) grew up with DBZ as their gateway shonen and expected shonen battle anime to be edgy and bloody and Wan Piss characters don't have that edgy appeal on the surface at first glance.

Unfappable bitches.

Please.

Pirates are boring, ninjas are not.

DBZ and Naruto do not have a single attractive woman.

By that logic Bleach or Inuyasha would be the most popular anime in the west.

Fapping to unrealistic barbie doll looking bitches doesn't mean it's fappable - it just means you have no standards.

Yes, the art style. 4 kids. One piece isn't REALLY good until arlong park.

-questionable artstyle
-tries too hard to be funny while it really isnt at all
-luffy acting retarded is way less amusing then naruto acting like one
-theres no actual rivalry which is something westerners love
-there are no actual "stales" which is one of the single most important factors for western 12-24 year olds to like something, if nothing dies theyll be "whats the point lmao"
-up until like chapter 500 or something there was nothing superhero unique about the character, no bloodline limits etc like in naruto and dbz that make you feel special
-ninjas are just way cooler than funnily drawn pirates to the average person, and also way more exotic to us since we actually know pirates

Thats the things that instantly come to mind.

>DB Bulma, Pre Buu Chichi, 18, Launch
>All the Konaha bitches - Tsunade, Hinata, Ino etc.
>not attractive.

>DBZ and Naruto do not have a single attractive woman.
What are you some kinda faggot?
Also I think Bleach was the biggest in the west at one point

>Naruto does not have a single attractive woman

Attractive women isthe only thing the show has going for it.

Most of them are underage girls. Only Tsunade is fanservicey, but she's too bland to be attractive.

Dragon Ball Z was 10 times more popular than bleach

Kids in the US don't read manga and Naruto had a much better anime. Naruto is also more of a direct successor to DBZ in many ways. I don't really think the quality of the dub had much of an effect.

>Is 4kids to blame?
Yes.
Shit on it all you want, but Naruto had a pretty decent dub with minimal censorship for the mid 2000s in Cartoon Network. One Piece on the other hand was fucking butchered and turned off a lot of newcoming fans as well as existing ones.
To this day there's still people who only know One Piece as that awful series with the rap theme song. It's recovered since then what with the manga still ongoing and Funimation stepping in to dub it, but it's moment to shine was shat on.

Zolo
Is really cool
Nami
The beautiful

Naruto was big enough for an anime but Shippuden failed completely and for the same reason as One Piece. Only diehard fans are going to put up with an anime that is hundreds upon hundreds of episodes long. Even DBZ which might be the most popular anime ever in America was only about 190 episodes through it's most popular parts (end of the Cell Saga).

>underage girls
>unattractive
Do you know where you are right now?

>-questionable artstyle
This is probably it almost entirely.
>-tries too hard to be funny while it really isnt at all
It's funnier than most comedy anime.
>-luffy acting retarded is way less amusing then naruto acting like one
Not true.
>-theres no actual rivalry which is something westerners love
What exactly is your basis for this? Outside of Japan, rivals to the MC are rare in fiction.
>-there are no actual "stales" which is one of the single most important factors for western 12-24 year olds to like something, if nothing dies theyll be "whats the point lmao"
I assume you mean stakes and you can make this same argument about Western fiction and other popular anime. Series where characters die at any regular rate are rare and are considered edgy. Usually, it's the antagonists that die, and that doesn't increase the "stakes" at all.
>-up until like chapter 500 or something there was nothing superhero unique about the character, no bloodline limits etc like in naruto and dbz that make you feel special
Devil Fruits are even more individualistic than bloodline limits or being a Saiyan. One Piece also has inhuman races in the very first saga.
>-ninjas are just way cooler than funnily drawn pirates to the average person, and also way more exotic to us since we actually know pirates
There is some truth to this, but it's kinda' weak. Medieval fantasy isn't exotic, but it doesn't stop it from being popular. Also, Naruto characters aren't exactly ninja-like.

A mix of bith to be honest. Westerns like the ideal fantasy of ninjas and samurai and the land of the rising sun. One Piece is just another pirate story in a sea osf millions.

people cant take a story with that kind of art style

Attractiveness is subjective, look at /d, they find chair people attractive

Speaking from my memories of being a child at the time, One Piece fucked around way too much and felt like it had too much filler. I stopped watching when they were on that snow island they got Chopper from. I tried to peak interest back up when they were in that sand place to kill Crocodile but by that point I had no idea what was going on. Some of the characters like Usopp and Chopper are really god damn lame and when the show drags itself to a halt while they fucked around on some boring island a lot of other people probably dropped it too.

Naruto on the other hand didn't become shitty until after Sasuke left and the rest of the series became filler, but even then you could pick it right back up in Shippuuden and miss nothing of significance anyways so it didn't matter. Plus, while One Piece had a lot of hit and miss characters, most of Naruto's were likeable to some degree up until the point where you've already been keeping up with the series for years.

One Piece is just less interesting than Naruto

>It's funnier than most comedy anime.
Not idea what sort of mental disability someone must suffer from to actually believe this. I am not saying that Naruto is funny, but the jokes are well place while One Piece just tries to be funny at all time which makes the comedic value completely worthless. You dont want jokes being told while you watch muh epic battle. Thats probably another issue. One Piece battles and combat are and have always been bad. The world building doesnt matter that much to the young audience.

>Outside of Japan, rivals to the MC are rare in fiction.
What does this matter? Its about the appeal of anime. Rivalries in shonen, be it Pokemon, Beyblade, Naruto, Dragonball, Yugioh, Bleach etc are something that many of them share. Theres a pretty clear pattern here. I dont know what its like today, but its not like that matters.

>Series where characters die at any regular rate
No one said regular rate. People dont constantly die in Naruto or DB either, but at least they die every now and then. No one in One Piece died prior to Ace.

>are even more individualistic than bloodline limits
You dont gain their ability because of who you are, its a random item that you can technically acquire at any given point. Thats doesnt make the power or the character special, it makes it lucky.

>Medieval fantasy isn't exotic
Sure as hell is to Americans. They dont have a history.

youtube.com/watch?v=RSe8D2wfGKI
In reality, 4kids was merely trying to fix a joke of a series that took itself too seriously with muh nakama feels.

It's not edgy.

HE'S MADE OF RUBBER
HOW DID THAT HAPPEN?

four anime episodes to one chapter of manga.

Shitty marketing.

>One Piece first premiered on American TV inside the Fox Box, on September 18th, 2004. 4Kids heavily edited the dub, and made some… interesting choices.

>Looking back we can now laugh at the dumb choices made by 4Kids to make the show appealing to a young demographic but to anyone who was reading the manga, which was running uncut in American Shonen Jump at the time, it was truly frustrating. This was legally the only game in town. One Piece never really seemed to find it’s footing on Fox Box aiming at that really young demographic that previous 4Kids productions easily captured. Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were wildly popular anime with that 6-11 age demographic and 4Kids went ahead treated One Piece like any of it’s other anime franchises. That seemed to backfire as it left the Fox Box, and ended up seeking the slightly older 9-14 demographic that watched Toonami.

>Toonami premiered the 4Kids episodes on April 23rd, 2005, promoting the series with it’s trademark Peter Cullen narration, and a Pelican City song. At this point, 4Kids’ time with the license was coming to an end, and it’s clear they didn’t really want it. The episodes became a little less edited thanks to the eased restrictions of basic cable versus over the air broadcast, but that didn’t really change anyone’s mind on the show.

>jokes are well place
Other than Guy not remembering Kisame, there isn't a single thing in Naruto that's funny if you're 10 or older. The funniest things about Naruto have always been created by the fans, like Sasuke's meme apology or Itachi's blindness.

>One Piece just tries to be funny at all time
It creates levity, like in real life where people aren't super serious all the time, and as a result it makes the dramatic scenes stronger due to the contrast.

>muh epic battle
The fact you phrased it this way is exactly why you do want jokes in it. Chibi Luffy smacking Lucci on the nose in the middle of his monologue is funnier than the entirety of Naruto. The best fight in the series is probably also the funniest: Zoro vs. Kaku.

>battles and combat are and have always been bad.
They're not really that different than Naruto battles, except One Piece battles actually have more martial choreography in them. Half of the fighting in Naruto is blurry streaks and vague explosions. I personally don't like that kind of shit. I'd take Jackie Chan over Vin Diesel every single time. There isn't a single thing Naruto does in the whole series that is as interesting as even Luffy's dumbest attack.

Also, Luffy does have a rival.

>No one in One Piece died prior to Ace.
Sure, but why do you actually give a shit? You know the main cast is never going to die and, in One Piece, the cast sails away from everything, so the majority of characters don't come back after their initial encounter. If Oda said, "Yeah, they all died," would that somehow make you like the story more? DB also is arguably worse, since people just get wished back or you can visit their ghosts. In Naruto, most deaths pissed off the fans.

Being born special is also luck.

>They dont have a history
By that logic, we should love stories where the heroes suck since it's exotic to us.

>there isn't a single thing in Naruto that's funny if you're 10 or older
So its basically One Piece, just that the jokes are fewer.

>and as a result it makes the dramatic scenes stronger due to the contrast
Absolutely delusional. Youre supposed to be fighting for your life. You dont make jokes like One Piece does while that happens. If anything it creates a disconnect to the situation at hand. If you are fighting for survival you dont joke, not even Dragonball pulled in its battles with equally powerful opponents, at least not to the extend that One Piece does.

>The best fight in the series is probably also the funniest: Zoro vs. Kaku.
Holy hell. I am done. No point in bothering past this point.

>It's funnier than most comedy anime.
The shit I read in this board sometimes.

It's because One Piece wasn't as good as Naruto.

...

The real answer is that the others had better anime.

Manga market is relatively smaller in the west, while kids can watch anime on TV for "free."

4kids is to blame for the most part for making it unbearably bad.
youtube.com/watch?v=RSe8D2wfGKI
youtube.com/watch?v=VWPVcINjV88
Also none of the characters in OP are as edgy as the characters in Naruto, which westerners love. Not to mention it appealed to people who felt lonely and isolated because Naruto's backstory gets told every 5 minutes and is basically played as a sob story. Also hand signs were a thing kids loved doing, and kids like ninjas.

PIRATES DON'T RAP

they replaced guns with magic hammers and cigs with lolipops and turned black people white

Tell that to the Somali pirates

4kids definitely ruined it

I think the series is generally weaker in anime form regardless. Even before it got worse.

>So its basically One Piece, just that the jokes are fewer.
And it has better characters, better world building, more interesting super powers, more creative fight choreography, more drama, less plot holes, and the anime has better openings. Otherwise, yes, it's exactly like Naruto.

>Youre supposed to be fighting for your life. You dont make jokes like One Piece does while that happens. If anything it creates a disconnect to the situation at hand.
You sound like a 13-year old Mexican right now.

>If you are fighting for survival you dont joke, not even Dragonball pulled in its battles
I hate to be the guy to say this...but Dragon Ball sucks. As soon as Raditz shows up, the series starts feeling as cheesy as professional wrestling. The Buu Saga is unreadable. It was great for its time, but it became instantly outdated. JoJo and YuYu Hakusho, even while Dragon Ball was around, took what it did and made it more interesting.

>with equally powerful opponents, at least not to the extend that One Piece does.
I hate to be pedantic, but what do you mean by equally powerful? The strongest character in One Piece is weaker than Master Roshi.

>Holy hell. I am done. No point in bothering past this point.
>underestimating the power of a giraffe
Making a big mistake, my ESL friend.

4kids ruined it.

also naruto kind've got fucked too. it was going strong, strong enough to keep being aired on cartoon network even after toonami initially died. but then it went to disney who edited shippuden to hell and when it came back on toonami, it was in the same boat as funimation one piece. too late and too far behind.

>and the anime has better openings
The fuck are you smoking.
Also, I'm not sure about the "more creative fight choreography" Lee vs Gaara or Lee/Gaara v Kimimaro is better than eeverything in OP. You're right about the rest tho.

>more creative fight choreography
Have you seen Ishimaru's and Lee fights? Say what you want about Kishimoto but he was good with the fights

>the anime has better openings
What

>>underestimating the power of a giraffe
People don't really take seriously most animals. Most animals are stronger than us, a giraffe could easily kill 2 adults.

>and the anime has better openings

Personally, I like about half the One Piece openings, but only six of Naruto's. Maybe it's just me. One of One Piece's openings is literally a joke and it's the most awkward thing I've ever seen. Talk about bringing comedy into a serious situation.
>Lee vs Gaara or Lee/Gaara v Kimimaro is better than eeverything in OP.
Alright, that's fair, you're right. Hidan and Kakuzu were also great. Sasuke vs. Deidara.

I think I tend to be hard on Naruto because I felt so into it back in 2005 and over the next decade I came to fucking loathe it. I even like Bleach more now, even Bleach at its worse. Naruto has so much "gay panic" humor and literally every moral within the series gets refuted by the series itself eventually. It became so unbearably stupid. The revolving door final villain was a joke.

Unfortunately, even Oda does. Zoans have gotten the worst treatment in the series. They're kind of a joke. You could make Zoans a lot more interesting by taking stock of the less obvious superhuman attributes that animals have, but most Zoans don't do that, they're used to give ascended mooks extra strength.

>One of One Piece's openings is literally a joke and it's the most awkward thing I've ever seen. Talk about bringing comedy into a serious situation.
I meant one of Naruto's openings, obviously.

One Piece is more like DB, which also wasn't as big as DBZ. It's no surprise the Z types gravitated more toward Naruto and Bleach.

Because westerners are dumb, they won't be able to appreciate a story driven show.

There's a reason why every Hollywood movie is 50% superheroes..

*whale noises*

>Some of the characters like Usopp and Choppe
Say what you want about Chopper but I refuse to let you shit on the legend

They look better in the manga.

>if nothing dies theyll be "whats the point lmao"
This is my only real gripe with One Piece. The lack of death really reduces the stakes and emotional investment at times. I don't care about what X villain is doing because at the end of the day no one will have actually lost anything. Thankfully the latest arcs seem to be reversing this course, at least a little.

>He actually thinks Pedro's dead
lmao

It took them too long to increase the size of Nami's titties

No, I know he isn't. But some of Big Moms unimportant children and the Homies are. It's not much but it's better than the shit where Enel didn't kill fucking anyone.

>the west?
>thinking US=the west

Better question, why are amerilards so dumb? Is it the low-testosterone levels?

We've got plenty of samurai and ninja fantasies.

Trully a specimen of a shit taste

>Why wasn't One Piece as big as Naruto in the west?
Wasn't edgy and cool enough.

Yep nobody ever dies except in Impel Down where Luffy just pushes scores of marines into a pit of lava

Literally Nothing Happens: the manga/anime