Anarchism is better

So I showed up and Sup Forums was like half-way an-cap
and I'm like "fuck'n great, this is where I belong"
now we're going super nationalist and I dont think this ride is very fun anymore..
Can we go back now please?

Other urls found in this thread:

bastiat.org/en/petition.html
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Anarcho anything is a meme tier ideology
As much as it sounds good on paper,it will fail as humanity needs a hierarchy to cope with.

>anarchy is not the answer, so do the exact opposite because that must be the answer

Authoritarian logic.

You can totally get a hierarchy in ancapistan.

Just no monopoly on force.

FUCK YOU NAZI!

...

Go be an anarchist then.
No one is stopping you.

COMMUNISM WILL WIN!

I don't need a hierarchy to cope with. Tolerating it for your sake wastes my resources.

Name a successfull society which didnt have a hierarchy.

Ever since the dawn if man,a hierarchy existed for tribes to be stable.
Mob rule or even total anarchy are symptoms of a collapsing society.

Minarchism is way more doable than ancap
kinda fpbp

...

fuck off antifa

That it is OP.
Voluntary & naturally occuring hierarchy > artificial and involuntary ones

You keep using this word "hierarchy"
how do you define this concept?

Why are you ashaming us?

Go be an anarchist OP, what are you waiting for? Do you need Sup Forums to tell you it's alright or hold your hand?

Ouch-y, saved

He's either too poor
or living in a non-anarchist society, like all of us maybe?

If you haven't already have fun reading The Law, it's only like 60 pages and for a Frenchy writing over 150 years ago his charisma and wit is brilliant.

The Candlemakers petition is hilarious too. The one where they petition the government to block out the sun for unfair competition against candlemakers,

Ancap is not opposed to hierarchy. It is opposed to political hierarchies. Hierarchy is the natural result of individuals of varying abilities and ambitions being free to manifest as they see fit. This form of hierarchy is not only acceptable, but the only moral form of social organization.

Hey antarctica is looking pretty fresh just saying. :/

Preach

Nice refference, can do.

Will read that

an organized body of ecclesiastical officials in successive ranks or orders.

Normalfags are sheeple that need a shepherd to follow. If anarchy occurs,who would they follow orders from and such? They would be running like headless chickens in a way.
Every successfull society needs a leader. It always had.
Roman Empire,British Empire,Ottoman Empire,Japan etc.

If we look at places where there was constsnt conflict of power and/or even attempt of making everyone equal,it went bad.
This is why too democracy doesn't shine and has a low expectancy of surviving.

Ancaps, discuss minarchism

Anarchism isn't capitalist at all.

Go fuck yourself OP!

Hello

That's the meme

It doesn't even matter if your position is morally correct. You are not the whole world and will never be the whole universe. Smaller groups fall prey to larger groups and your position is no group at all? An anarchy is just plum for any envious or other worldy eyes.

Is there any reason why such a guiding institution could not develop and exert it's influence without the use of force and royal blood? I think today we could easily set up such a voluntarist institution of sufficient magnitude to out compete any smaller institution based upon the use of force and coercion.

what about syndicalism?

Anarchist is the most leftist ideology you can get, capitalist or not.

If I could I'd vote for the deep state. Shillary didn't count because she's a worthless self-serving cunt bent more on power than actual perpetuation of the deep state ideals.

I wish the CIA put forward / openly endorsed a candidate.

Anarchy doesn't equal chaos, man. You can still have strong and binding institutions in ancapistan so long as they do not claim any special privileges to the initiation of force.

We're not evil
we're just misunderstood lol

> your position is no groups at all
Since when was Libertarianism confused and conflated with Egoism?

The market is the people, the global division of labour and the cooperation of all individuals is the largest group you can have. Collectivism is what divides a people by more and more categories until they are all minorities in conflict.

Being against an involuntary violent monopoly and being for the rights of individuals to live peacefully and cooperate with eachother does not make one against groups.

Haven't you been here long enough to know that yet?

Isn't Syndicalism an economic system? We are talking about political systems here. Ancap is a political system revolving around economy.

Way ahead of you user.

>so long as they do not claim any special privileges to the initiation of force

so whats the deal with a police force then. does this ancap ideology just dismiss the need for a police force, or is it putting forward some "the people will organize and enforce a set of expectations upon one another and be their own constabulary." If that's the case, some people are gonna be naturally better / more into that roll than others, and weak ass people are going to look to them for help / aid / enforcing "laws / expectations" and before too long you're just gonna have a police force.

being an ancap is great but the marxists are violating the NAP everyday so the swing against them is required for survival
if not the world ends as we know it and ancaps get culled
so lets just do the right thing and everyone goes back to nations built around gene sets and then you can be an ancap there

A PETITION:
From the Manufacturers of Candles, Tapers, Lanterns, sticks, Street Lamps, Snuffers, and Extinguishers, and from Producers of Tallow, Oil, Resin, Alcohol, and Generally of Everything Connected with Lighting.

To the Honourable Members of the Chamber of Deputies.

Gentlemen:

You are on the right track. You reject abstract theories and have little regard for abundance and low prices. You concern yourselves mainly with the fate of the producer. You wish to free him from foreign competition, that is, to reserve the domestic market for domestic industry.

We come to offer you a wonderful opportunity for your — what shall we call it? Your theory? No, nothing is more deceptive than theory. Your doctrine? Your system? Your principle? But you dislike doctrines, you have a horror of systems, as for principles, you deny that there are any in political economy; therefore we shall call it your practice — your practice without theory and without principle.

We are suffering from the ruinous competition of a rival who apparently works under conditions so far superior to our own for the production of light that he is flooding the domestic market with it at an incredibly low price; for the moment he appears, our sales cease, all the consumers turn to him, and a branch of French industry whose ramifications are innumerable is all at once reduced to complete stagnation. This rival, which is none other than the sun, is waging war on us so mercilessly we suspect he is being stirred up against us by perfidious Albion (excellent diplomacy nowadays!), particularly because he has for that haughty island a respect that he does not show for us......

We ask you to be so good as to pass a law requiring the closing of all windows, dormers, skylights, inside and outside shutters, curtains, casements, bull's-eyes, deadlights, and blinds — in short, all openings, holes, chinks, and fissures through which the light of the sun is wont to enter houses, to the detriment of the fair industries with which, we are proud to say, we have endowed the country, a country that cannot, without betraying ingratitude, abandon us today to so unequal a combat.

Be good enough, honourable deputies, to take our request seriously, and do not reject it without at least hearing the reasons that we have to advance in its support.......

Throughout history force was used to maintain such societies ofcourse. Without that,people wont take you seriously.
the thing about ancap is that majority of the humanity or atleast in this case,white people would be in a worser position than they are now.

Private police. Any problems you can find with that you are also going to find in a public police force. Just check out private police forces today, they are infinitely more effective, and 8 times cheaper than public police.

First, if you shut off as much as possible all access to natural light, and thereby create a need for artificial light, what industry in France will not ultimately be encouraged?

If France consumes more tallow, there will have to be more cattle and sheep, and, consequently, we shall see an increase in cleared fields, meat, wool, leather, and especially manure, the basis of all agricultural wealth.

If France consumes more oil, we shall see an expansion in the cultivation of the poppy, the olive, and rapeseed. These rich yet soil-exhausting plants will come at just the right time to enable us to put to profitable use the increased fertility that the breeding of cattle will impart to the land.

Our moors will be covered with resinous trees. Numerous swarms of bees will gather from our mountains the perfumed treasures that today waste their fragrance, like the flowers from which they emanate. Thus, there is not one branch of agriculture that would not undergo a great expansion.

The same holds true of shipping. Thousands of vessels will engage in whaling, and in a short time we shall have a fleet capable of upholding the honour of France and of gratifying the patriotic aspirations of the undersigned petitioners, chandlers, etc.

But what shall we say of the specialities of Parisian manufacture? Henceforth you will behold gilding, bronze, and crystal in candlesticks, in lamps, in chandeliers, in candelabra sparkling in spacious emporia compared with which those of today are but stalls.

There is no needy resin-collector on the heights of his sand dunes, no poor miner in the depths of his black pit, who will not receive higher wages and enjoy increased prosperity.

It needs but a little reflection, gentlemen, to be convinced that there is perhaps not one Frenchman, from the wealthy stockholder of the Anzin Company to the humblest vendor of matches, whose condition would not be improved by the success of our petition.

you're literally ten times more closely aligned to nazism than anarchy-capitalism is you fucking antifa spastic

The Dane always speaks the truth

We anticipate your objections, gentlemen; but there is not a single one of them that you have not picked up from the musty old books of the advocates of free trade. We defy you to utter a word against us that will not instantly rebound against yourselves and the principle behind all your policy.

Will you tell us that, though we may gain by this protection, France will not gain at all, because the consumer will bear the expense?

We have our answer ready:

You no longer have the right to invoke the interests of the consumer. You have sacrificed him whenever you have found his interests opposed to those of the producer. You have done so in order to encourage industry and to increase employment. For the same reason you ought to do so this time too.

Indeed, you yourselves have anticipated this objection. When told that the consumer has a stake in the free entry of iron, coal, sesame, wheat, and textiles, ``Yes,'' you reply, ``but the producer has a stake in their exclusion.'' Very well, surely if consumers have a stake in the admission of natural light, producers have a stake in its interdiction.

``But,'' you may still say, ``the producer and the consumer are one and the same person. If the manufacturer profits by protection, he will make the farmer prosperous. Contrariwise, if agriculture is prosperous, it will open markets for manufactured goods.'' Very well, If you grant us a monopoly over the production of lighting during the day, first of all we shall buy large amounts of tallow, charcoal, oil, resin, wax, alcohol, silver, iron, bronze, and crystal, to supply our industry; and, moreover, we and our numerous suppliers, having become rich, will consume a great deal and spread prosperity into all areas of domestic industry.

Will you say that the light of the sun is a gratuitous gift of Nature, and that to reject such gifts would be to reject wealth itself under the pretext of encouraging the means of acquiring it?

bastiat.org/en/petition.html

there only 2 sides now
communists and fascist

This bastiat guy sounds pretty metal

Nice try, D&C shill

He always ends with a flourish

get in the oven goldberg

>Ancap is not opposed to hierarchy
Its just opposed to the type of hierarchy required for a functional society.

>but the only moral form of social organization
Moral according to you and other ancaps. Very few see it that way.

Show us your flag, comrade...

I wonder how long this thread will survive after I leave. :/

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You first, larping homeless nigger

>and I'm like "fuck'n great, this is where I belong"
You belong where you come from: plebbit.

This board is full of retards who either want to give too much power to the state or too much power to corporations. In reality a careful balance is most efficient for the progress of humanity.

> Its just opposed to the type of hierarchy required for a functional society.
I think you misunderstand but it would nice of you to prove it.
> Moral according to you and other ancaps. Very few see it that way.
We take the basic moral principles of society and apply them consistently, it's even easier to understand than in-group preference, race and genetics desu. Or just as easy to agree with.

>ancaps get culled
we can only dream

You know I think somebody once said something like "any compromise between good and evil is a victory for evil" but what you described is just a compromise between super evil and mega evil.

Faggots don't use Karen for your retarded anarcho LARP bullshit.

Hey um...you know the state creates Pty Ltd corporations, gives them personhood, monopolies, grants, protections, regulates out competition, allows lobbyists to influence and use the violence of the largest gang in the land to the privilege of the elites right?

We want to end that....

>we can only dream
You've got that right.

syndicalism was supposed going to be built by the workers

if the workers had the necessary energy and momentum to built it they would have left at the very least an historic mark

instead, the ones that dared to do something were communist/socialists statists

the masses dont have the energy/organization/inspiration required to take control of the state

they end up delegating the responsability to others, either a ccp or a democratic party

same reason why so few cooperatives work/succed and same reason why they arent expansionary but relly on the inertial conquests of the founders of them

Nobody gives a fuck
leave

But I give multiple fucks?

Learn about real right wing, order, in economy and society. Not your crypto-leftist bullshit.

And stop smoking weed.

Enjoy the crash and civil war....

Ancap is great, because when your neighbor's sex slave escapes and is bleeding on your lawn, you can just hit her with the flame thrower without getting big government involved.

No, it's a compromise between super evil and mega evil to prevent either side from being too evil.

How exactly?

An-cap is the only logical conclusion when anarchy is achieved. An-com is literally impossible to achieve in any population larger than 50. As retarded as An-cap is, at least they have the brains to know what happens when all authority is dismantled.

FUCK YEAHI

What’s wrong with nationalism? Similar people with similar goals is bad?

I kind of miss the good old classic, "fuck everyone" attitude this site used to have.

Eh, the nationalism is fine I guess. Even good. It's the statist bullshit that always seems to come with it that's (((problematic)))

"we are not evil">proceeds to be evil

whats stopping private police of becomming cartel type kind of gang?
whats stopping them of having the idea of conquering some terrain and stablish a monarchy or tirany at the very least?

Enjoy your weak ideology.

Like, why cant we just be racist AND anarchist for once, you know?

Ancap is just a variation of communism, no state etc....

we already live in ancap world.

the biggest gang is the government. they assert their power by claiming legitimacy. sure there are other gangs in other lands across the sea, but the gangs generally keep to themselves and live the ancap dream within their own borders. some gangs engage in financial or psychological piracy (the most cost-effective form of piracy, ancap style), but for the most part the gangs respect the borders of other gangs.

Dumb amerimutts.

Dumb amerimutts

> How exactly?
The way I see it, the state is the greatest tool for political and corporate evil, hell as I mentioned they created corporations at they are and made them what they are today.

However the biggest reason why the state itself is the core cancer that needs to be cut out is because it is the only institution in society where we actually justify violence and what would normally always be considered immoral/wrong.

It is this justified immorality that is the core problem, so not only removing the cancer of the leviathan state but you only get to do that once you have a Libertarian culture, a Libertarian culture is one that does not justify evil in this way.

It's just like if you had a communist culture or Nazi culture, the politics is simply the shadow and the lagging indicator of the beliefs of the people.

Corporations go back to being accountable businesses without the state and they have little opportunity to justify violence the way we do with the rule of law/the state today.

Simply put abolish the state and you take away the power of the corporations, you get to that paint with a Libertarian morality in society which we already have 3/4 of the basis for ingrained in the populace.

REEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Fuck you faggot. Go the congo if you want anarchy. Stupid nog

>I think you misunderstand but it would nice of you to prove it.
No successful society has ever existed in which there wasn't some form of political hierarchy. When something has never been done, there is almost certainly a good reason. Never mind the natural instinct of humans to exert power over others which will inevitably manifest in any ancap state. Large power imbalances between various factions (private security, corporations etc.) will lead to a de facto state.

>We take the basic moral principles of society and apply them consistently
principles such as what?

>it's even easier to understand than in-group preference, race and genetics desu.
No abstract ideology will be easier to understand than what is instinctual. Brown people will never buy into your foolish vision.

>whats stopping private police of becomming cartel type kind of gang?
Same that's stopping them now: heavily armed citizenry.
>whats stopping them of having the idea of conquering some terrain and stablish a monarchy or tirany at the very least?
The presence of other police forces as well as massive otherwise force free institutions that respond to just such aggressive behaviour. Again, institutions, and powerful ones, are perfectly allowed.
I love how user pretends like we dont already have these problems with a state.

See image attached
That is the state of our reality.

We all have our separate right-wing ideologies, but if we don't unite against the left they will stamp each of us out.

Like I could break out some police brutality montages, maybe some videos of tennam square and the arab spring.

Believing in an authoritarian society doesn’t necessarily mean that the state has more control. Libertarians usually use this as a boogeyman to show everyone that they’re the “right” right wing. It just means they believe values and ethics should be promoted to society and that citizens should try to preserve and protect them.

>whats stopping private police of becomming cartel type kind of gang?
Today's police force already works that way as they extract funding by force (taxation) amd we have zero recourse if they decide to start oppressing us, excepting physical and armed retaliation of course.
In ancapistan the citizenry is also armed, so the best way for police companies to make money is not to take it by force as they currently do, but to do their jobs so well that we dont fire them.

if they start acting in a way we dislike, we dont have to pay them in ancapistan. In a state we are just SOL.

> No successful society has ever existed in which there wasn't some form of political hierarchy. When something has never been done, there is almost certainly a good reason.
I disagree. I would amend that because it is more accurate to say
> no successful society has ever existed in which there wasn't some form of dispute resolution and collective form
The way we see it is that the functions the state plays are important, like keeping the peace, resolving disputes etc but that they can be done better outside of the structure of the state with its very specific attirbutes that we find immoral.

> will lead to a de facto state.
Not as easy to say as you make it out to be. What you're misunderstanding is that just because an entity provides the services the state currently does, does not make it a state, the state as attributes and we want to pursue alternatives that move away from those attributes.

> principles such as what?
The NAP while insufficient is a good eye opener and explanation alongside property rights. Everyone in our society know what assault, theft, murder, rape etc are immoral. We argue that the state does these things and it isn't necessary to continue this way in order to get the same important services.

> No abstract ideology will be easier to understand than what is instinctual.
What's not instinctual about social animals disliking conflict and pain? The desire for harmony and disgust for unjustified violence has been as inherent to us as the ages of plunder and violence. Human nature is pretty well understood to be fair.

> Believing in an authoritarian society doesn’t necessarily mean that the state has more control.
Umm...sweetie....