Who wins?

Who wins?

Touma. Touma has precognition and since Shirou's swords are due to his magecraft, touching them with Touma's right hand will just make them disappear. Even his RM will disappear with one touch.

Touma, this isn't really a question.

Which Shirou are we talking about?

Who has more plot armor?

Shirou rocks him by virtue of actually being proficent in martial arts.

The guy on the right

Touma.

Shirou is a beef cake.

shirou cause shirou does kendo and other martial arts. he raised by a very militant father and isn't just a punk who punches people while complaining. touma relies on people using magic while any adult can rock him 1v1 and shirou is that guy

Touma was noted for his skill in street fighting way back in Vol.1, let alone how much better he's gotten in the time since dealing with the freaks he has.

Yeah but Touma's plot armor bullshit > Shirou's plot armor bullshit

Both are good normal high school boys and they should not fight but work together instead.

Shirou by virtue of living his life correctly, Touma has no power.

touma never beat anybody who was simply strong without magic. they always do these stupid magic gimmicks and then he wins using tricks or plot device. shirou isn't just a street fighting punk but somebody who was raised by a militant father and trained his entire life

Do they get any weapons? Shirou is exceptionally capable with a bow or a gun.

I feel like they'd be pretty evenly matched.

Shirou for sure/ They both have semi procog during fights but Shirou has a better trained body.

Plus if you give Shirou a non magic bow it's just a roflstomp.

He's not fucking Kuzuki. He's just some guy who works out and does archery.
Once he pulls out his projections Touma's precog kicks in and Shirou ain't touching him.

Assuming Shirou uses actual weapons, it'd be a pretty close match. Touma's got precog though, and if Shirou relies on magic instead, it'd be a clear Touma victory.

Touma's just a street brawler, Shirou has experience with actual weapons. If he needs to use projections then he's fucked but with normal weapons I can't imagine Touma beating him.

Not true,Touma's fought off Skillout multiple times.

>Touma's just a street brawler
"Just" is one hell of an understatement in my opinion. Also, he's done far more than streetfight.

>in my opinion

Good thing I didn't ask for your opinion, then.

This entire thread is about opinions you retarded sperg.

yeh but shirou relies way the fuck too much on magic later on and doesn't actually carry a weapon.
he would trace a sword and it would get rekt then shirou would get decked in the face.

If Shirou pulls out a sword or a gun I can't imagine Touma doing anything besides legging it. And then try to get a cheap shot in with a fucking bus.

Now that i think about it, can Touma negate Avalon's healing power? I haven't watched/read Index, but based from what i read here his power only works when it touches magic. Avalon is deep inside Shirou's body so unless Touma's power affects it i don't think Touma would win.

Shirou's body is far more durable than the average person due to swords reinforcing his bones. So basically Shirou would win since he can't die when he's killed, unless Touma has a healing power of his own.

i'm not a nasufag or a raildexfag so let me give my uneducated opinion
without plot armor, Shirou's magic would be stomped by Touma's bullshit, but can Touma actually use his his power offensively? isn't it required that he touch the magic with his hand to negate it? Could Shirou not overwhelm him from a distance with sheer volume?

>unless Touma has a healing power of his own
Hasn't he regrown his arm multiple times already?

Your thinking too much about it, Lets just assume Avalon has no power because Saibah isn't around.

Because if she is around well good luck finding Toumas corpse when it is goop on the side of the road.

Well if Shirou cuts his arm, he will die. His OP power inside his arm will only manifest if he's killed or there is a threat that warrants its attention
It's only done that with planet to casual universe busters.

I mean during Fate/Stay Night itself, sure, but after that it's pretty clear he's a pragmatic fellow. If he has cause to expect any fighting, he is a professional-tier sharpshooter and close friend with a yakuza boss.
Thus always with similar powerlevels. When in their respective storylines is this happening? How much prep time is allowed? And in which setting?

>overwhelm him from a distance with sheer volume
The guy avoided an attack that "surpassed the concept of numbers," so probably not. All he really has to do is pull out a real sword and Touma will have to run.

What about that thing in Touma's arm?

i said without plot armor. Shit like that doesn't fly

Relying purely on their fists and powers, Touma.

If they can use actual weapons, Shirou.

I don't know what to tell you, man. The guy has dodged shit that makes no sense on many occasions. All we can infer is that simply chucking shit at him doesn't really work.

One of them dies in all but 3 of 40ish endings, the other is Touma.

Can Touma erase UBW?

So far Imagine Breaker only regenerates his right arm. But Imagine Breaker managed to come back after being 100% deleted from existence so it probably regenerate more than just his right arm

Touma can negate projections by touching them. He was also shown being capable of fighting vs a high spec cyborg, Rensa, that had the powers of all the level 5 combined in a 1vs1. Said cyborg can move at mach speed or faster.

His power is to negate distortions in reality, isn't it?

As i said, i haven't watched/read Index. I'm assuming he can only regrow his special arm. I haven't seen people talking about Touma's healing power other than regrowing his special arm so that's what i'm assuming.
Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong though.

Well, i just had that thought because nobody ever thinks about Avalon. All people are talking about is his projections so i thought i'd freshen up the discussion a bit by talking about Avalon.

Probably. But Imagine Breaker is something that would not function at all in Fate's world.
If Touma touches the ground then the planet itself would die beneath his fingertips.

This is just totally incorrect, Shirou has the training of martial arts and the capability of finding a chance of success in a fight even if the odds are super hard against him (servant version of him has this as a skill even but that's kinda irrelevent.)

In story Touma is against training for martial arts because it would go against what he has done, Bringing the best out of enemies sometimes turning them into allies.

Neither, they become friends and go on adventures.

guy fist fought a god a metric fuckload of times, and then fought a few more gods after taking on the entire damn world and winning. considering in the fate universe gods pretty much outrank literally every god damn thing except types and touma went to toe with a few gods who similarly rank as pretty much the highest thing in the kamachiverse other then silly shit like the unexplored or the white queen, i feel slightly skeptical as to how well shirou would actually do in that case.

if it doesn't make sense then it's pretty obvious he's got loads of plot armor, and by removing that plot armor in this scenario is effectively removing power. that's to his detriment period.

Don't forget Touma being able to react and destroy a magical crossbow bolt fired by a god at literal infinite acceleration

Eh I don't think that would be the case, Even in ToAru world the earth is full of mana like Nasuverse but the world just rejuvanates each time Touma comes into contact with it, I'd assume earth in Nasuverse would behave the same.

>If Touma touches the ground then the planet itself would die beneath his fingertips.
Not really, if the planet is continued to be supported with mana, it wont. Just like how Stiyl's innocentious in Index wasn't put out

it's a close match if we're talking number of annoying shitty threads or awful fanbases

Shirou wins.

Does military style training daily like 100 situps/push ups etc and is trained in combot vs Touma who is just a skinny kid (has been in street fights but those are just regular punks).

Can have his swords canceled out but could also possibly produce so many that he just over whelms Touma. Touma doesn't have a limit to what he can cancel but his cancel is around around the vicinity of his arm; a stray sword shot at his back and he's dead

finally Avalon inside Shirou will heal all his injuries and it's beyond the scope of magic: Fate goes into detail about how it's such high tier shit that it can cancel reality breaking attacks... it's something otherworldly and can't be canceled by Touma

he does leave holes in shit with touches though, shit just immediately refills cause mana patches the holes, just like how touma actually drags lines of no mana zones wherever he goes that quickly get patched up and thats actually a legit plot point in NT2, he would proably cut a small hole through gaia in the nasuverse for essentially the same reason, fall through it, then it would immediately patch up.

Fool, you cannot simply remove pseudo precog and IB keeping him alive for the sole purpose of suffering. Honestly though, is probably what's going to happen.

"surpassing the concept of numbers" is a meaningless buzzword through and through, the attack is not unavoidable or omnidirectional and you can't even infer wht the numbers represent.

Touma dies in an unarmed fight and against HF Shirou's crane wing combo which overwhelmed Saber alters B-rank instinct that's close to precognition.

but shirou could literally just beat the shit out of him with his fists since hes such a bad fighter, though given his nature I don't think they would fight each over

IB's negation doesn't work like that. IBM can't negate anything with a constant supply of mana. It can simply repair itself as it's being destroyed, as shown when Touma had to deflect rather than negate magic beams that were thrown at him. IBM won't destroy the planet either as the planet would be considered a natural occuring thing which IB won't destroy. It's similar to how touma can touch fairy Othinus and she won't disappear.

>But Imagine Breaker managed to come back after being 100% deleted from existence
when did this happens?

I realize i'm not in the right thread to say this, but logically thinking aren't Touma's achievements total fucking bullshit? He's a regular dude aside from his power to negate illogical phenomena (i.e magic) But despite this he's gone toe to toe in death matches with cyborgs, gods, and again despite being a regular dude, somehow manages to dodge shit like infinite crossbows traveling at omnipotent speeds? Surely somebody has to see the ridiculousness of this right?

>fate/raildex powerlevel threads are back
What a time to be aliv

>normal
Even in universe it's a meme. The gods straight called Kamisato out on it.

Casual reminder that Shirou fist-fights Kirei to a standstill in HF

He wins through sheer, he's better in a straight fist-fight, Touma isn't a good enough street fighter to beat someone whose both physically and athletically better than him, and who has trained harder with better resources (Saber training is OP)

oh no thats the fun is watching the sheer bullshit touma gets away with by punching shit.
i can't wait for WWIII to get animated and Sup Forums completely flips its shit through the entire fiamma shitfest.

>He's a regular dude
Wew. Precog is a hell of a drug as well. His bullshit achievements are also noted in-universe.

>Touma
>bad fighter
What? Touma is skilled in street fights.

plot armor because the author is a shit writer

what do you expect from some kid who doesn't even know the basics of christinaity?

dude post NT9 touma has had a metric fuckload of millennia of experience of straight fistfights against a god and is probably the oldest thing alive next to gods.

Shirou is actually pretty /fit/ and can easily put up a fight against a normal though.

Touma says several times iirc that he could fight one guy, hold out against two guys, and has to run away from three guys.

Well then it wouldn't negate UBW which remains until the caster runs out of magical energy. Though nothing in UBW should affect him meaningfully anyway.
Unless..
>IBM won't destroy the planet either as the planet would be considered a natural occuring thing which IB won't destroy.
In this case everything in UBW would have the same protection and kill him without difficulty. The world and a reality marble are fundamentally the same structure of existence. The world in Fate is just as artificial as a reality marble.

Something people are overlooking, Is that if for some reason they both decided "Oh shit I got to beat the shit out of this guy"

Do you really think Shirou would start of projecting a weapon against a non magus?

I think hell no he wouldn't he would just have a ordinary fist fight in that case it's simple who would win Touma wouldn't get a suprise hit in when he Imagine Breaks a magecraft and Shirou's better training would take this.

This, Touma says he can win a 1v3 if he's cafeful from what I recall. He's far from a terrible fighter even at the start of Index.

suspension of disbelief can only get me so far. I suppose index really isn't my thing since when I'm told somebody is a human, i expect them to have some weaknesses i can relate to, like bullets, swords, bombs, guns, you know? Shit that when used against a human, that human generally dies

i'm still convinced touma would straight fall through nasuverse earth though for that exact reason cause he does effect both though.

oh wow look Touma punched a punk kid and that kid backed off. Wow so amazing

mean while Shirou fought another man to the death with just his fists.

Touma is noted to be weak to gun.

weirdly enough regular bullets still fuck his shit, but everything not that gets rekt.
so you with a gun is more dangerous to him then someone with an infinity+1 bullshit supermagic sword.

He is weak to that stuff. He just tries really, really hard to not get hit. It's like 80% of his fighting style.

Kamisato used World Refectory on it. WJ beat IB and erased it from their world's existence but Kamisato got rektd by whatever IB was holding back.

Touma has fought and taken beatings from Saints (pretty much a heroic spirit in human form), cyborgs, angels, gods, ninjas, assasins, spirits, and more. All without the need to borrow power from others like shirou has. Touma has far more experience than shirou ever will.

Unlimited Blade Works is only Shirou himself, so it's a "naturally occurring thing". No reason for Imagine Breaker to destroy it, unless Touma putting his hand on your forehead obliterates your soul.

>meanwhile shirou fought another man to the death with just his fists while blades were coming out of his body
Fixed that for you. Each punch of Kotomine to Shirou damage Kotomine as well because of the blades.

Can't he just slice touma to cheese using UBW?

but I read earlier in this thread that he dodged a crossbow bolt fired at infinite acceleration by a god, and last time i checked infinity crossbow bolt > bullet
I'm kinda getting how this is going but jesus fuck man

It's funny as hell that getting his ass whooped is the best training he'll ever have. They literally beat precognition into him.

Magic is kind of key here. Touma can't negate or otherwise fuck with a bullet.

Who wins????

I forget, but can't Touma negate Gemstone attacks in Index? Because if so, he could negate UBW.

Hisprecog doesn't work so well when multiple people are involved. However if it's 1vs1 he'll pretty much be able to dodge anything and come out alive.

UBW will get destroyed as it's Shirou projecting his world onto the actual world itself which would consider being unnatural. However there's nothing stopping shirou from just using it again.

Never tried but I am sure he can. He survived Aiwass' universe blinding sun thing, and he's an angel of the pure world. Doesn't get much more connected to IB's roots than that.

>UBW will get destroyed as it's Shirou projecting his world onto the actual world itself which would consider being unnatural.
And "the actual world itself" is being projected over a blazing hellish dead rock in Fate. The truth is that the world is an illusion just like a RM.

Probably Shirou. Touma's ability can only put them at par.
This is usually enough to win him fights because he's fighting pussy magicians who haven't done a pushup in their lives whose faith has just been shattered along with their magic.

Touma have survived billion years of emotional trauma

It also gave him turbo PTSD, and he's done a lot of mental fuckery to be able to live with the knowledge of all the worlds of suffering he went through.

at least his PTSD translated into something somewhat useful where he goes full murder mode when magic gods get involved.

What about the Invisible Thing, or whatever it is that Imagine Breaker's keeping sealed up? Isn't that something important here?

There's really no discussion to be had if that thing is included.

So did Shirou.
A Shirou, at least.

Well that's kinda the point, isn't it? It's pretty much Touma's nuclear option, and I see no real way for Shirou to deal with it.

A who beats who usually never goes anywhere interesting, so how about who's a little more reasonable? They are both kind of batshit, but who has the more sensible ideology?