Damn, working in anime production must be tough

Damn, working in anime production must be tough.

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>the type of people who visit at 5am when the shop opens
>"I was working until just now, and I came here straight after I finished"

holy shit

holy shit

And they get paid dick all to do it. Must really be a labour of love.

t. any creative medium ever
unless you stand at the very top in terms of popularity usually none of them make any substantial money.

When do they sleep?

The schedule is not always this stuffed. It's typically when they mess up and are about to hit the deadline that they forgo sleep this badly.
Normally they get off of work at 12PM.

when they die

>any creative medium ever
CG "artists" get good pay for relatively easy work in the industry and produce soulless garbage. There's no love or talent in that field.

Most of the 2D animators aren't talented either. They just grind inbetween frames every day. It's a job even user could do.

>There's no love or talent in that field.
There is, and it's objectively quantifiable. The talent is just not where you would want it to be. Otherwise they'd just hire random schmucks from the street, pay them 5 dollars per hour and save lots of money.
The problem with lots of jobs is that the talent you care about is not one that we have a good measurement for. What's a good teacher? What's a good artist? Neither of these professions get paid what they're worth. But if you're an artist you may be lucky and hit the jackpot when your name alone moves huge amounts of dosh.

Work a night shift, get off at 6 or 7am and drink a coffee in a nearby shop. There is absolutely nothing special about this.

>There is
There's not.

>pay them 5 dollars per hour and save lots of money.
That's what they do.

>What's a good teacher?
One who's students learn what they're being taught, retain the information, and can apply what they learned.

>What's a good artist?
One that produces distinguished work that displays technical mastery of their medium while also having an individual flair that invokes emotion from the viewer.

there are no night shifts, only overtime

>That's what they do.
You are disagreeing with yourself. Fix that or there is no point in arguing with you.

>You are disagreeing with yourself.
No I'm not. They hire any random CG animators and pay them an amount that costs less than hiring someone to do all the scenes by hand. CG is literally a cost cutting measure. If a CG animator makes 5 metaphorical dollars, then a traditional animator makes 1, but the studio needs to hire more of them and have them work more hours.

I can already tell that you're going to argue like a faggot from reddit and pretend you've made a logically sound post though, so could you spare me the bit where you talk in circles, ignore that I responded to what you said directly, try to argue semantics and then pretend that art is entirely subjective and can't be measured because you can't break it down into 1's and 0's?

>No I'm not.
>CG "artists" get good pay
>5 dollars per hour
I guess everything is relative. Are you happy being poor?

Working in television mean being surrounded by idiots, incompetents, as well as actual psychos, from the assylum.

Cost of living in Japan is actually relatively cheap, and you threw out a random figure. But please go ahead and pretend you were putting forth a hard, accurate figure in that argument and didn't just pick a number to mean "Not that much money" which is exactly the livable but still modest wage they get.

Are you kidding me? You know how many jobs have night shifts?

>pick a number to mean "Not that much money"
That is precisely the point though. Are you stupid?
When you are complaining that they are getting good money you can't at the same time agree with a statement that they are getting "not that much money".

This. Nobody's heard of night shifts apparently.
I work until 7am both weekend days.

>reading comprehension

Livable wages higher than traditional animators (what they get) and tons of money (what they don't get) aren't the same thing.

>Her friends said Ms Takahashi - who had been at the firm for less than a year - claimed to be so busy she slept just 10 hours a week.

>Death from overwork is relatively common in Japan, where it has its own word: karoshi.

>Ms Takahashi is reported to have worked 100 hours of overtime a month for some time before her death.

>She died on Christmas day 2015. According to reports, a note left behind for her mother included the line: "Why do things have to be so hard?"

>higher than traditional animators
Which would be a pointless expense if they didn't come with skills that the random schmuck on the street didn't have. Which is my point.
Now please shut up, retard.

>t. any creative medium ever
Not watched many films lately?

>being retarded
Okay okay.

>Star Trek
>average film
Do you have any idea how many TV actors can barely live off their wages?

>My point is that mass produced garbage skills that produce soulless animation where there's so little talent involved that people can't even recognize different animators by their styles and studios only use it as a cost cutting measure are talented animators that studios are hand picking for work
You're an idiot and you have no point.

You need to up your reading comprehension.
>The talent is just not where you would want it to be.

>doesn't know the difference between night shift and working overtime

>It's just different, it's not bad
Great point, user. Great point.

Of course CG animators deserve to get paid more than 2D animators. They have to be trained in that shit and develop algorithms to know how to make stuff move and know what their computers can do, while 2D animators are just doing dumb repetitive steps like penciling some movement. Pencil shit is so dumb and cheap and easy to do, even a Malaysian or a Philippine can do that
>b-but what about le Berserk last year?
Incapable 2d animators and directors trying to do their first step into 3D and totally failing at it, as was expected.

Your reading comprehension continues to fail you.
But please, go ahead and keep trying.
Here's just a hint: I never called them good animators.

>Haha, you see I've made an intelligent point that you simply couldn't comprehend and I've won
No, you said something that had no bearing on the actual discussion at hand, pretended it was a point, and then pretending you won an argument because no one addressed the part of your post that had fuck all to do with what was actually being discussed. You quoted me saying there was no love or talent in the field, you immediately said
>There is, and it's objectively quantifiable
Now you're trying to turn around and say that you never implied they were good despite quoting me saying they had no talent and saying I was wrong.

Now you're going to pretend you meant technical "talent" and not artistic merit, even though that's what the conversation is and has always been about, and that's why you're a retard. Every post you make absolutely reeks of "enlightened" redditor.

working overtime had nothing to do with this

>pretend
>>The talent is just not where you would want it to be.
I don't need to pretend. I've been pointing at that from the beginning.
>that's what the conversation is and has always been about,
It's not my fault you are too stupid to recognize that.
When I point out in the very same post that artists are in a bad position, then it's obvious that I am not talking of artistic skill in regards to the CGI animators. But go ahead, trying to save your face by "predicting" what is inevitable, which is that I bring back the points that I made a long time ago and that you were too stupid to see.
My point was not very complicated. It truly was just you being too stupid.

>picking "artist" or animator as an career
They deserve it

>Respond to a post about one thing
>"No, that's not what you were talking about"
>Get told you're going to pretend that you were making another point so you can pretend to be smart, because you're a stupid redditor
>Turn around and do exactly that
That's about what a figured.

Who's supposed to animate your waifu?

You can't save your face with this nonsense. The very first post was obvious enough.

>nothing to do with this
>implying animators do night shifts and not working overtime to meet the tight deadlines
You're fucking retarded

>You can't save your face with this nonsense.
>CG "artists" get good pay for relatively easy work in the industry and produce soulless garbage
>CG "artists"
>produce soulless garbage
If you thought the conversation was about anything other than artistic merit, then you literally and objectively can't read English. Can't wait to see you mental gymnastics your way through this one.

Once again, overtime had nothing to do with the original post.

A post is not a conversation. I'm not sure what your native language is, but there is a difference in English.

I wonder how the studios react to these sort of events. I can kind of see the management accepting it as her own fault but imagine being all those other animators who are also doing tons of overtime hearing about their colleague kicking the bucket from it.

If someone puts an idea forth and people respond to them, then that's what the topic of the conversation is. Nice try with the mental gymnastics and semantics that I said you'd get to here
>try to argue semantics
It must be frustrating to get read like a book while you're pretending to be smart. I'm done responding to you now, you can sneak the last word in if it'll help you sleep at night.

OP Reply about what the animator said in english You talking about night shifts user telling you it's not night shift but working overtime in the anime industry You being a retard

>then that's what the topic of the conversation is.
No, the topic of a conversation is a mutable thing, depending on whatever people are currently discussing. Are you of the opinion that we are still discussing the merits of art? If so, you are stupid.
>you can sneak the last word in if it'll help you sleep at night.
Thanks.

Typical
>it can't be helped
mentality.

Westerners shouldn't give a shit about it. The Japanese decided that it's good for them, so let them work and die from stress and sometimes even commit suicide because of it.
The amount of anime we get each season is not going to become less. There's enough otaku who will willingly work for cheap to replace all the ones who died.

No, the original post tells you why there is nothing special about it, regardless of whether or not it's overtime.

>working overtime from morning of the previous day till 5am of the following day
>it's nothing special since I work in the night shift
Stop being retarded

When you get to the higher roles like director and producer you get to fuck all the cute seiyuu

It's still kind of retarded. I mean, the time it takes to replace her is definitely many times higher than her getting 1-2 days of rest to recover and be ready to rush another 100 hours in overtime to make up for it.

The article mentioned the company taking precautions afterwards like shutting the lights off at 22:00 in an attempt to get people to leave. I think it was just them trying to spin it because they're the ones that foster that kind of environment in the first place.

...

you're clinically retarded

You know that picture is full of shit, right?
The studio in question is an out-source house. The guy is complaining about the economic situation not allowing them to become an actual studio producing their own work instead of helping out everyone else.

not only anime guys, I'm an architect in japan, its basically the same, I get out almost everyday around 2-4am and get back at 8:30am. same goes for salary man, no one is allowed to sleep in this country.

recently a food chain (sukiya) was sue because was forcing 24h turns on the staff, they could not even go to the toilet.

japan is not only anime guys, this country is the epitome of slavery and prostitution

Nah, most people only stay late in the office because they drag out their work and think being in the office means they're a hard worker, or they just don't want to go home. I worked much harder when I lived in America. It's really manageable to comparison here.

well, not in architecture at least, tried 3 offices, it only gets worse, salary is shit too

Are you fluent in moon and do you do your homework to make sure you aren't applying at black companies? Japan isn't even as bad as South Korea, let alone America in terms of most industries. Only animators are really slaves here.

the thing is, and what I'm about to say applies for many art industries (anime too), many of the famous companies, are black companies. I worked for one of the most famous architects in the world, in tokyo, he exploited people all the time, every month 10 new guys come, first 2 months no salary, then it starts with salary very very low, almost only enough to pay the rent of a 4m2 room in tokyo.

>almost only enough to pay the rent of a 4m2 room in tokyo
What? I know low level animators get shit on and Konami sucks, but there's no way every architecture firm pays less than a grad school scholarship here. Again, are you fluent in Japanese and do you use this to job hunt?

>there's no way every architecture firm pays less than a grad school scholarship here

Graduate scholarships are perfectly fine to live on as a student. I did my numbers and I'll be left with enough money to buy random stuff and travel. Granted, this time I won't be in Tokyo, but even if I use the number from my stay in Tokyo, it would still be completely fine.

But there's not way it would be enough to live without the advantages students get. Any normal job has to pay way more.

もちろん。日本語わかってるよ
the problem is not the language, the japanese staff get the same.
believe me, I know people that were at an office for 4 years getting paid 50K yen a month, less than 500 dollars. let that sink. very few people know about architecture situation, one of the problems is that we normally don't talk about it because we feel ashamed. Another problem is many japanese firms here get foreigners because its for our career to work in japan for 1-2 years and then go back to our countries, like heroes.
nonetheless, these offices, and they are many, I can even say the name if you want, can't keep the same staff very long, its rare a person that stays over 2-3 years on the same atelier.
To be clear, in japan there is only 2 types of architecture firms, big companies, like Nikken Sekkei, where you get good salary, good hours, shitty work, like designing toilets for years; and then you have the "artistic" ateliers that everyone want to go to learn with the masters, similar to famous anime studios, problem is, those artistic ones, never have money because of bad management, or even many bosses accept work for free.

Mind you, the Japanese government is now willing to ease down qualification requirements for foreigners to work in Japan as cheap inbetweener slaves.

animenewsnetwork.com/daily-briefs/2017-09-19/japanese-government-moves-forward-with-plans-to-relax-visa-restrictions-for-foreign-animators/.121523

All the SEAfags working for 100 yen per cut welcome.
That way, instead of having to hire foreigners in South East Asia and work with the companies there, the anime industry gets to keep costs down by hiring the ones who are already in Japan trying to become animators, and will spend their meager earnings into the economy of Banzai land, instead of money going out towards Laos and India.

>likes art
>wishes hate on artists
you should stop existing

I don't understand how the fuck do they have so much work to do. What's their productivity rate? Working in a regular game development company, we get so much done in regular 8 hour shifts, everyone takes their due days off, very little situations where people have to stay overtime. It's hard for me to imagine a state where everyone is working themselves to death.

>Graduate scholarships are perfectly fine to live on as a student.
He said 4 square meter apartment. My 18 square meter apartment is only 7万, and I live in a relatively expensive area.

分かるだけじゃなくて、日本語能力試験やビジネス日本語の資格を持てなけりゃ就活は大変だぞ

>To be clear, in japan there is only 2 types of architecture firms, big companies, like Nikken Sekkei, where you get good salary, good hours, shitty work, like designing toilets for years; and then you have the "artistic" ateliers that everyone want to go to learn with the masters, similar to famous anime studios, problem is, those artistic ones, never have money because of bad management, or even many bosses accept work for free.
So you chose fulfilling work over industry and it's hard and pays shit. That's the same for research and programming as well. That's nothing special.

It's mostly inefficiency. Talk to any American or European who works here and they'll tell you.

>分かるだけじゃなくて、日本語能力試験やビジネス日本語の資格を持てなけりゃ就活は大変だぞ

それは問題ではない、建築事務所はその問題は関係ないよ
Architecture offices here dont give a shit what language you speak, you just need to follow orders

Sounds like you just work for a low level company that is very clearly looking for cheap labor.

I tried 3, one of them is one of the most famous and biggest in the world, average salary was between 80k and 130k yen. not enough

Ignore him.
相手しても時間の無駄だよ

But this is more or less all studios.
It's all subcontractors subcontracting subcontractors. It's the same deal in animation, advertising, live action, feature films, you name it.
You get a finished design document written either by students or by a semi-literate marketing team. In the case of the latter, they just signed their names on it and it's written by students anyway.
And that is in case the complete plan even exists as a single document. More often than not, you will only have documents dealing with your part of the project, written in such a way to limit any sort of creative freedom. Freedom is bad for production, because freedom means risk and additional work.

>average salary was between 80k and 130k yen. not enough
A month? For what level of education? I get more than that as a grad student on a scholarship each month, and I can make 4 or 5万 a month just tutoring on the side for a few hours a month.

ただの暇つぶしだから気にすんなよ

Nice. Instead of a labor shortage giving more bargaining power to nip workers, just import the third world slave workhouse.

What uni are you at? A course in Japanese or English?

It's the same thing everywhere. I was fired from a job in which I never drank water so I wouldn't have to go to the toilet. All contracts in that company were 1-month or 3-month deals, and they had an employee whose only job was to spy and blackmail other workers.

Your post is disgusting to look at.

a month, to foreigners and japanese staff, no insurance paid, with a master in architecture (minimum 5 years of university), some (like me) with 2-5 years of experience in other offices, some people more years.

Todai, STEM. It uses English and Japanese.

I dont like art, I like mass produced chinese cartoons made for being consumed

Why the fuck is everyone always at Todai? I'll be at a different 旧帝. Noone at Todai had the same research topic as me.

if you want to be top in japan, you better go to Todai

>Why do people who are smart and go to Japan go to one of the world's best schools for scientific research for grad school?
Next, how about you ask why people going to America want to go to Harvard or MIT?

wait fuck that's a woman?

>a Philippine
I'm still fucking angry when I learned we were the monkeys who ruined the last season of the 90s X-Men and that now we're the ones ruining One Piece.

What's the foreign student body like? I went to a festival at one of Todai's campuses once and pretty much every stand was something like Muslim food, Indian food and such.

go to /3/ and tell them that. there is not a single correct thing in your post.

It's just digital claymation / puppetry. How is that any different?

Go to the board of unemployed people whining about student to tell them that their craft is shit so they can bitch and moan? No thanks, but you crossboarding faggots can fuck off every time someone says Studio Orange is shit.

wow
dropping japanese learning now

soudai here. feel like i'd never pass 入試 for toudai. i also can't apply for their English program because it prohibits graduates from a Japanese uni

Feels bad man

you seem strangely passionate about hating cg, i think you should try funneling this energy into something productive

>not an argument
Kys retard

Mostly japanese, too many chinese (and chinese tourists, my god the chiense tourists), some koreans, and then some very loud and annoying europeans and middle eastern/indonesian students who like to preach about diversity shit, but those are very few and far between. Most students are just busy working and doing research, and most people here are pretty nice.

Taking a few minutes out of my days spent doing biomedical research that actually helps people to tell unemployed "artists" that their craft is shit and CG anime is garbage doesn't take much time or effort, don't worry. Maybe you should funnel some energy into learning how to be a real artist.

For STEM at grad school you can just take the subject GREs to matriculate.

You sound like the epitome of STEM autism.