How has the World Government ruled for 800 years when they pull stupid shit like this?
Declare war on the strongest man in the world and risk all of your Marine VIPs getting killed just so you can execute a pirate that most people don't give a fuck about? Those aren't the actions of a government that would survive one year never mind close to a thousand.
they are villains who control the world through power and corruption what do they care
They baited WB to a war on their own turf and won. I think they did pretty good
If they are villains they could have just kill him privately.
But using Ace to lure and kill WB you're killing two birds with one stone
Do you even propaganda? They wanted to use him and whitebeard as an example an exceeded to a certain extent. Blackbeard was pretty much their only miscalculation
Whitebeard was dying, he was no threat to the WG and declaring war on him was guaranteed to be a clusterfuck no matter what happened.
What has happened since Marineford? Garp has left and is likely to be an enemy of the WG in the future, Sengoku has left, Kuzan has left and is likely to be an enemy of the WG in the future, Blackbeard has Whitebeards fruit and is likely to be an enemy of the WG in the future. How does any of this make the World Government stronger? You wanted to beat Whitebeard fine but you've broken your arm doing it and your enemies are even stronger.
>Do you even propaganda?
Do you? The best kind of propaganda is the kind that doesn't require you to lift your finger. On the other hand doing something that requires you to waste valuable resources for no real gain is the bad kind of propaganda. Do you think the Revolutionaries or the Yonko are scared because of what happened at Marineford? No they just see the chance to strike the WG now that it's wasted it's strength.
But the thing is, you see, Blackbeard handed Ace over to them in broad daylight. Everyone saw him do it and THAT's the point. He forced their hand. If they don't execute him they'll look like cowards and people will lose faith in them. If they do execute them, WB will come fuck them up. The WG loses either way. It's not exactly their fault BB had a keikaku that forced their hand. They haven't pulled shit like that since Roger and he ALSO forced their hand by publicly turning himself in and they had to cover it up to make it look like they captured him to save face.
Why don't they shoot pirates with sea stone bullets?
He was a retarded bitch, but also the only son of the biggest criminal to ever lived. Public execution was the thing to do in this case.
Sea stone is very rare. I don't think they'll want to waste it on literal fodder who might not even be able to accurately hit their target. It's much better used in handcuffs for dangerous DF users or as nets to capture Logia users. Bullets would be a waste since most of them might miss. If you're going with sea stone bullets you'd need a master sniper like Augur or Sogeking to make sure you're not wasting any precious seastone.
>Seastone-Bullets? That'd be stupid.
>But sir!
>No buts. I don't want to hear anymore of this...
>execute a pirate that most people don't give a fuck about?
were u sleeping when Ace's flashback was going on? Everyone he talked to told him that if roger had a son, they'd want him dead. You underestimate the hate that people had for Roger. He started the Great Pirate Age and a lot of people suffered from it.
This. It was more of a symbolic victory for the WG more than anything. Yes they lost a lot of men fighting WB and BB pulled a fast one on them. But that doesn't matter. They killed the son of the man who started an era and ended Roger's bloodline. In their eyes and in the eyes of civilians that's a MASSIVE victory against piratekind. Even as propaganda it'll serve as a reminder that eventually, even the Pirate King's bloodline will be brought to justice and there's no escape. It was a good move by the government worth the sacrifices.
They could've made a secret deal with Whitebeard and handed Ace over then spin it any way they want. Propaganda follows policy, not the other way around.
Roger was free for years and years and the WG only got a chance to execute him when he turned himself in, they weren't betting their government on their ability to capture him it just happened to come together and they used it for propaganda purposes. Obviously they could've waited for Whitebeard and Garb to die of old age before they bothered going after Ace.
In fact had they waited for Ace to really make his name as a pirate before they executed him it would've given his death a thousand times more impact.
>In fact had they waited for Ace to really make his name as a pirate before they executed him it would've given his death a thousand times more impact.
You could say the same thing about almost any aspiring young pirate, but letting a bunch of dangerous pirates run around is not such a good idea after all.
World Government is actually strong, speedreaders.
They almost executed all the Giant Pirates from Elbaf before the Con Artist Nun stopped the execution.
Oda just hasn't done a Commander Kong Flashback yet.
Most young pirates aren't part of a Yonko's crew.
>In fact had they waited for Ace to really make his name as a pirate before they executed him it would've given his death a thousand times more impact.
He's already as high up as he could get without leaving Whitebeard's crew. What more do u want?
>the WG only got a chance to execute him when he turned himself in
The Public doesn't know that.
>In fact had they waited for Ace to really make his name as a pirate before they executed him it would've given his death a thousand times more impact.
They could've. But you know what sends a stronger message? Executing Ace while he's STILL under Whitebeard's protection. It shows that the Marines will carry out justice by killing Roger's bloodline even if it means fighting the Strongest Man in the World. And they succeeded. Nobody could have predicted BB's betrayal there but as far as the government is concerned, they've gained a significant symbolic victory. They showed guts taking on a Yonkou and ending Roger's bloodline. And really, the Marines didn't lose TOO much anyways. They lost a bunch of fodders. But none of the Admirals took any long term damage. All the Vice Admirals survived the war. They replaced the lost Shichibukai with new ones. And arguably, the Marines are under a 'better' leader with Akainu. Sengoku and Garp retiring doesn't affect them much, they were both getting old anyways. They weren't as strong as they used to be in Roger era.
Maybe it's difficult and ineffective to reproduce? Guns wouldn't be able to fire them?
I also assume the reason why Smoker uses it as a jutte instead of a bladed weapon is because the properties couldn't forge a sharp, durable blade and it suits Smoker to smack around pirates rather than outright kill them. That means most fighters in the world would rather use seastone as a DF deterrent than as weapons because the stones are suitable to be made as such moreover they're rare so you might want to use them to coat cuffs or jails. If people could use a limitless and convenient resource like Haki to damage DF users then why forge a expensive item with seastone?
This. Ace had no ambitions beyond serving WB. If WB dies, he loses what protection he had under him, the WB Pirates get cannibalized by another Yonkou crew or BB himself and Ace gets captured anyways. Better to execute him now and send an even better message by fighting WB, killing him and Ace. And like said, the government is strong as fuck. Nothing short of a Yonkou crew can go against them and hope to win. Even Dragon and the Revs have to use guerilla tactics on them. They can't take them on in a conventional war yet.
When do the villains ever kill people the easy way?
He's the son of the greatest criminal in history. The WG knew that they needed to take him before he became a threat and wanted to use the war as a show of strength at the same time.
Which is the point. The best propaganda is the kind that doesn't require you to lift a finger.
Yeah really nice ideology, too bad Marineford was fucking stupid and is going to be one of the major factors in the fall of a 800 year old government.
Zoro and Sanji as rookies before the time skip casually dodged regular bullets.
Imagine all the actually threatening pirates in the New World you would need such a weapon for.
WB did say he wanted to make Ace the next Pirate King so WG did the right thing to kill him now.
>Yeah really nice ideology, too bad Marineford was fucking stupid and is going to be one of the major factors in the fall of a 800 year old government.
This is a shonen manga and the big bad evil government falling is completely inevitable. Marineford was just the straw that broke the camel's back in that inevitable fall. But though we readers know that, the government can't possibly see that far into the future. As far as they're concerned, they've ended the reign of Whitebeard and ended Roger's bloodline at the same time. Yes, BB's betrayal was a loss but in terms of net gain, it's still the government's victory. Now under Akainu, they've moved their base into the NW and are stronger than ever. Old timers like Garp and Sengoku have left, now the Admirals in their prime will lead the military.
So you can gain everything by not fighting WB, or you can risk losing everything by fighting WB and your 'brilliant' idea is to start a fight for no reason. Are you people neocons or something what the fuck is wrong with you? And don't try to talk about propaganda, the WG will paint a good story no matter what happens and if the WG can paint a good story without risking the lives of the Admirals then that's the choice they should make.
He's not Luffy.
I'm not a neocon and this isn't my political ideology, user. I'm just speaking from the perspective of the government. I know it's a Marineford was a bad idea by the Marines. But let's look at things from their perspective.
Blackbeard just handed over a notorious pirate (commander of a Yonkou) in broad daylight. So they made him Shichibukai. Now they can't just let Ace go (the people will accuse them of moral cowardice). And since he is of Roger's bloodline, which Celestial Dragons etc. fear, he'll have to die. Unfortunately they'll have to take on WB, but they've already played into BB's hands. Their only choices now are to 'Let Ace go' or 'Execute him anyways'. Of course, the Marines chose the latter.
Yes they took a massive risk with the war. But let's count the casualties. None of the Admirals were hurt bad, none of the Vice Admirals died, none of the Shichibukai died. On the other hand, Whitebeard died, Ace died, Jozu is crippled for life and the WB Pirates are scattered to the wins. Yes, the WG can paint a good story no matter what. But this war is better than any story. It was streamed live worldwide. Now everyone knows the Marines won't back down, they're not afraid of the Yonkou. It scares the pirates (not even WB could stop the Marines) and reassures the civilians (the government will protect us no matter what from pirates).
>Marineford was just the straw that broke the camel's back in that inevitable fall. But though we readers know that, the government can't possibly see that far into the future.
Marineford was retarded and anybody with the slightest bit of political foresight could've seen it was a pointless clusterfuck. I'd think Dictators who've been ruling the world for eight hundred years could do better.
What did Rogers even do that he's labeled as the greatest criminal?
He didn't do anything bad. Just finding out about the truth of the world via Rio Poneglyph is considered a crime since it would probably reveal the Celestial Dragons as usurpers to whoever's supposed to be the original rulers in the Void Century. Remember when Clover of Ohara tried to name the original kingdom, the CP agents shot him instantly. And he, by his own admission, didn't even figure it all out. Roger, on the other hand, reached Raftel and figured out the full truth. Naturally, he'd be considered the most dangerous criminal alive at the time. If I were a Celestial Dragon, I'd be frothing at my mouth calling for his death since if he spills the beans, all my legitimacy is gone.
So what else should they have done? Release Ace and pretend nothing happened? They can't. Ace's capture was already in the news. If they let him go, the reputation of the Marines goes down the drain. They can't keep him in Impel Down either, the Whitebeard Pirates will raid Impel Down and free him eventually. The only option is to go for immediate execution. Remember, they didn't capture Ace, Blackbeard did. The Marines had NO other choice except execution in that scenario.
>very rare
>marines literally coat the bottom of their ships with it
you can take ONE ship's worth of seastone and use it to arm an elite squad and have enough bullets for a decade's worth of operation
>How has the World Government ruled for 800 years when they pull stupid shit like this?
>Stupid shit.
>Took out the son of the pirate king and a yonko.
>Crippled a pirate alliance.
How is completely shitting on a yonko and completing their objective stupid? The entire world things the Navy crushed the pirates. Which they did.
WG was not trying to scare the yonkou and revolutionaries. They were using whitebeard's and ace's death to not only deter would be pirates, but to also cement theirselves in the eyes of the public as a powerful force that stands up against "injustice". Unfortunately, that back fired when BB showed up and when WB revealed that one piece existed
Unlike a ship though, you can steal bullets.
This. Any bullet that misses a pirate will be one bullet wasted. We already know top tier fighters like Katakuri or Marco or Jack would be fast enough to dodge those bullets. And after the battle is over, pirate scavengers can scavenge the battlefield for seastone bullets and reforge them into seastone swords and chains and use them against the Admirals. Or just coat their own ships with it and cross the Calm Belt like the Marines. It's too risky. Seastone handcuffs and nets are better. They won't need seastone on the low tiers anyways. And on the high tiers bullets probably won't hit. Once the top tiers fall though, the handcuffs are a good idea to keep their powers suppressed. And seastone nets can easily capture Logias like Caesar.
This. Although if you look at it carefully, the Marines still had a small net gain. Yes BB now has WB's fruit and is a new Yonkou. But Roger's bloodline is gone forever and will never come back. WB is gone and that's a massive propaganda victory. And now under Akainu, they've moved their base to the New World and are stronger than they were under Sengoku. I think overall, although it backfired with WB's final speech and BB's betrayal, the government is still the winner by a small margin. Marineford was a huge gamble, but they hit the jackpot.
We don't know if he did or didn't do anything "bad". Let us not forget that roger killed all of squards crewmembers for whatever reason. I'm sure he has some marine blood on his hand
Honestly, if Roger is anything like Luffy, I'll bet that Squard's crewmembers were all massive dicks. People keep comparing Luffy to Roger's personality and if that's true, I can't see Luffy randomly going around killing people for fun. Squard's crew must've either been hurting Roger's friends or on some bad shit. I mean, we never got to see how Squard's original crew were like so we can't say for sure. I doubt Roger was doing it for fun he probably had a good reason to kill them.
The nets are not used outside of Impel Down. Probably because any resources used in that isolated environment can be recovered after the battle.
It's stated Roger destroyed countries because someone merely insulted him
Samefag. I agree in a way, but i think WG lost more than they gain. They lost a powerful soldier in the form of aokiji defecting and joining BB. Their new admiral force (for the most part) doesn't respect authority so much, making it hard for akainu to keep up appearances. They brought on a loose cannon in the form of weevil who is wrecking towns in the midst of hunting WB pirates. This has to be lowering public opinion. Not to mention how they basically provided BB with a platform to become yonkou. Along with the fact that there are still lvl 6 impel down pirates out there doing god knows what. Shit doesn't look to good for them.
They could've just been bystanders who don't know the context of the situation. I mean, Luffy made himself out to be the villain in Dressrosa by "kidnapping" Rebecca. And Luffy's also prophesied to "destroy" Fishman Island. So he'll be destroying countries too. People who knew Roger well, like Rayleigh, Shanks, Whitebeard and Garp never spoke ill of him. The only ones that did were fodders and civilians who might not have known the full context of the situation. Maybe Roger was taking the fall like Luffy does on occasion.
I dunno if roger destroyed armies because they insulted his crew I don't know who is the good or bad guy. I mean we assume that he destroyed them like how luffy destoyed the enies lobby army. But I'm sure roger sent a few heads flying and took away the lives of men who had loved ones.
>Kaido slaughtered morias crew
>Roger slaughtered Squardos crew
>Shanks slaughtered higumas gang
>WB slaughtered marines
>BM eats people
Wow
If Luffy wants to be a top tier like them he needs to start his very own slaughterfest soon. Hopefully if he goes to Reverie he'll take the heads off every world leader except the Nefertaris, the Rikus and the Fishmen. Throw in a few dead Celestial Dragons to the mix. Make his dad proud. Live up to Roger's legacy and emulate his idol Shanks. Perhaps traumatize a new gen Supernova or two. Give them the Moria treatment. Just to impress Kaidou before their fight.
>Implying his father would allow himself to be cucked out of murdering the reverie royalty
I don't see why not? He already got cucked out of his home base by Blackbeard. Might as well get to Reverie too late just to see them all already beaten black and blue by his son and be forced to deal with the fallout without receiving any of the satisfaction.
Killing Ace only doesn't seem like a big move to us because we knew he had 0 chance of being Pirate King since this is Luffy's story.
>we're supposed to believe that what Akainu did here was wrong
You have the worst criminals of the earth knocking at their doorstep and this was when that marine decided to run away thinking he could protect himself and loved ones on his own? The admiral was right to kill this guy.
Luffy would have never surpassed him. Ace would have become PK
It wouldn't be wrong either way. Desertion is a crime. Even in real life, for instance, if US soldiers deserted during a battle that's still a major crime. Akainu didn't do anything wrong, I mean, even if Aokiji and Kizaru were in his place they'd still have arrested the coward. Akainu may have gone a step further but still, desertion IS a crime. Although preferably he should've tossed the guy's ass into jail or dragged him back out into battle and put him in the vanguard.
thats why luffy is the biggest red herring in the entirety of literature and the real pirate king EoS will be Eustass "Captain" Kidd
The balance of power is actually fucked in the OP world. There are only like 5 people worth their salt on the marines side and millions of pirates, Vice admirals are also a non-factor. It's pretty dumb how even one jobber character in the New World could solo the entire Imperial Down if they wanted to since no one knows haki.
Haki should have never become a power level indicator.
>Eustass "Captain" Kidd
His name is Eustace not Eustass.
>Enies Lobby, but with a deathcount.
I don't even want to think about it
And Coby just made things worse.
>Akainu has the chance to wipe out some of the most infamous lawbreakers on the world fleeing the battlefield
>Coby shows up with his ugly crying face to stop him
Fuck this series.
All Vice Admirals have Haki.
I'm just wondering why a government that clearly has no moral qualms would keep the Level 6 prisoners alive to rot instead of just quietly executing them. I mean the whole point is that they're erased from history, right? Just literally erase them by killing them instead of wasting resources putting a guy as big as Sanjuan Wolf down there.
This, plus I have no doubt Magellan knew Haki. They wouldn't put a man who doesn't know Haki in charge of the prison that holds prisoners like Crocodile, Ace and Shiliew. You'd need to at least know basic Haki to stand a chance against them in case of an escape. Magellan just got unlucky against Blackbeard since his DF is a 'fuck your DF' power plus I believe they ganged up on him.
By the same logic CP9 should've had Haki.
Honestly it's just plot armor to let them live to join Blackbeard's crew. They clearly aren't as strong as the Marines, otherwise they wouldn't be there in the first place. Magellan should've doused them all in poison and left them to die in there. Or Akainu should've flooded Level 6 with magma and burnt them all alive. Either way, I think Oda just put that plot point in so BB can have a new crew.
I live in Brazil.
I assure you that some public executions would help more with the violence problem than taking the no risk routes
I believe CP9 isn't exactly at the top of the hierarchy yet. CP-Aegis 0 is at the top and I believe every CP-0 member will know Haki at least. CP9 is still sort of Paradise tier. They're one of the best but not at CP-0 level yet. Even Lucci only because CP-0 over timeskip. CP9 seemed terrifying as fuck, but they're still a cut below CP-0 and might explain why they didn't have Haki yet.
it was a policy change based on whitebeard been old
they woudn't dare do the same in his golden age
That was a hack moment, he hadn't fleshed out halo yet at that point. Even though they are assassins they should've had basic use of it instead of training for 20 years on an island for jobber techniques.
Even if we suppose Magellan doesn't know Haki, he was still strong enough that Crocodile and Jinbei just spent all their time running instead of taking him on.
>One piece have a bad writing
In other news, water is wet
It would be true only if Akainu wasn't working for the true bad guys. Retard. Whitebeard is a peace keeper in the NW. You are american, right? Only an american would worship the military like that.
>I believe CP9 isn't exactly at the top of the hierarchy yet.
They are clearly above Vice Admirals and even the weakest VA know basic haki. Also don't CP0 focus on intelligence instead of assassinations and fights?
One thing I always wondered is why the WG higher-ups and the Marines obey the Celestial Dragons.
The Celestial Dragons don't seem to actually do or control anything themselves, they're weaklings just live lives of debauchery in Mariejois on the Government's dime. You'd think at some point somebody in the WG or the Marines would realize that they don't need them and could just take power for themselves, while also improving the WG's image to boot, since everyone hates the Nobles.
Torture them maybe? It's the whole point of Impel Down, they are torturing the prisoners.
>Rokushiki
>Jobber techniques
Take that back. Rokushiki is a very versatile martial art that can be used in a variety of ways including imbuing it with Haki for far more lethal attacks. If Lucci had known Haki back then, his Rokushiki with Haki added on would've turned Luffy into mincemeat. Plus Luffy himself had to take inspiration from Rokushiki for Gear 2nd and Gear 3rd so you can argue the success of the Gears stems from the success of the Rokushiki arts. Also, most Marines are also taught Rokushiki which explains why Coby can use it. Plus I believe most Vice Admirals have been shown using Rokushiki too. I believe it was mentioned in the (now non-canon) Z movie that the three Admirals are also Rokushiki masters.
>putting a guy as big as Sanjuan Wolf down there
How did they even get him there? And how did BB get him out?
WB wasn't he strongest man, they were overwhelmingly stronger and their plan was to kill ace and WB pirates. What's the problem.
Then the question is, why doesn't Lucci know haki?
But the Level 6 prisoners were the only ones that WEREN'T tortured. They were just left alone. You're better off there than in Level 5 or above.
>CP9 is still sort of Paradise tier
You mentioned Crocodile, where was he based? The idea that just because CP9 works in Paradise they don't need Haki is wrong, Haki works as a equalizer and having assassins that can't do their job is pointless.
My headcanon is that tekkai is armament haki. Same way mantra is observation haki.
Lucci can't even move while using it.
Plot hole really. Oda probably hadn't thought of Haki as an offensive technique that counters DF powers yet, Skypeia's Mantra was all he had in mind at the time.
Because it quite literally wasn't a fully developed idea at that point.
Why does the North Korean military obey the Kims?
That's a good point. The Celestial Dragons hold meaningless power, they have no physical power to actually control anything. A coup would be the easiest thing ever.
Tekkai is just a part of Rokushiki. Its not Haki.
That's a completely different situation and you know it. The entire North Korean system relies on a cult of personality around the Dear Leader. Not to mention that the Kims actually did things and were hands-on in assigning people and making decisiones.
The Celestial Dragons do nothing while other people do all the work for them, all while the entire population of the world despises them and everything they stand for, eroding trust in the WG.
It probably has something to do with that "secret" Doflamingo referenced. It's how he could get the Tenryubito to do what he wanted even though they exiled him.
I think it's because they know what happened in the void century and are using it to blackmail the WG.
Jabra can tho. I don't think Oda made it clear yet but it would be so easy for him to retcon tekkai into a form of armament haki like he did for mantra.
The World Government is North Korea in 800y.
All the more reason for the WG to kill them then. Dead men tell no tales.
How strong do you think the CP9 will be by the time they come back?
It's probably that.
It depends. The Gorosei are maybe Celestial Dragons. I believe they are. And they sure look like they can fight.