Female Fighters in Shonen

Someone explain this to me. People always complain that the female characters in Shonen are relegated to housewives but when they do get to fight, if they get beaten up, there is massive outrage. "Why is Videl a housewife now?" "Spopovich vs Videl was unacceptable. Fuck Toriyama"

This awakened something within me as a child
I cant stop searching for ryona now

I think it's because Videl was completely outmatched in that fight. Like, she stood no chance. Just used as a punching bag.

>Spopovich vs Videl was unacceptable. Fuck Toriyama
those are autistic whiteknights and should be ignored. also Videl never was a serious deal. even db saga 120 pwoer level Roshi could have oneshot her.

i am of the opinion that spopovich vs videl was fucked up, and am completely fine with videl being relegated to a qt loyal housewife. my views are at least consistent, no matter how beta they are

Gohan was outmatched vs Recoome

Vegeta was outmatched vs Freeza.

>outclasses opponent
>achually he has super special powers and can come back from getting his neck broken

Yeah, but they would redeem themselves in later fights. They had more to come. This was Videl's only fight. It ended here. After that, Videl's character took a complete 180.

How many threads with this exact topic do we need to understand that the opinions of newfags are worthless and shouldn't be discussed here?

gohan took beating after beating as a child. piccolo, raditz, recoome, freeza, vegeta, even cell. You think they could get away with 5 beatings for videl?

Because people have different opinions, mind blowing I know.

The only beating that involved lengthy torture like this was Vegeta vs Freeza, but
>Vegeta was an asshole/murderer/superstrong villain
>Freeza was the final boss trying to kill the heroes, not a tournament fighter
>no one could do anything

so it's not just because Videl is a girl, although this plays too

hypocrisy. they want fighters but not to get beaten up?

She took it like a champ. Videl is a keeper.

recoome broke 4 year old gohans neck

You just proved my fight. Each of those characters never retired from battles whereas Videl did. Toriyama completely ended her after that and put her off to the sidelines.
Pic related shows Toriyama's personal opinions of women getting themselves involved in affairs that are "meant for men."

so you think female fighters should win every fight? You want mary sue not characters

In one blow and it wasn't as graphic, Gohan was unconscious right after that. It was closer to a superpowered fight than normal torture like Videl vs Spopovitch.

No, but you shouldn't completely drop them once they (horribly) lose one fight.

so if recoome broke her neck in one blow, it would be ok with you?

>messenger of justice loses against the cock
Is Toriyama /ourguy/

Japan has archaic views on women
More news at 11

>Each of those characters never retired from battles whereas Videl did.
Honestly, each of those characters were far stronger than Videl would ever be.

he got lot of shit for videl vs spopovich.another scene like that would cause issues wouldn't it?

Videl was barely a secondary character, and a human. She'd get herself killed if she continued fighting with the main cast.

I think he wants videl losing 4 times and winning her 5th.
There is just not enough fodder for her to beat up.

She did well as saiyaman2 and took out some human thugs.
She's a human who trained lightly and mostly went to school.

Gohan can't do shit cus he went to school and has saiyanblood and trained since he was 4 against dinosaurs with piccolo.
She's nothing compared to the zoo fighters.

She had her spotlight beating bad humans and that's all she can do, she can't fight demons and world destroyers, she's a human and weaker than hercule overall, much less krillen, Yamaha and tien, all drastically weaker than real z fighters.

I'm okay with both fights, but I'm sure people would have been less shocked if Spopovitch broke Videl's neck in one blow rather than what we have now (an entire episode of sadistic torture with all the disturbing faces and shit).
It's not the case in the manga, so I guess someone at Toei was a ryonafag.

>win every fight

that would imply that women fought seriously in dbz to begin with

And? Kuririn was a human, yet he still kept on fighting. Videl could have been no different.
That's why you progress the character into getting stronger, user. it's not rocket science.
>and a human
So was Kuririn, Roshi, and Yamcha.

>Kuririn was a human
Krillin was always exceptional.

Heh, step aside.

krillin and yamcha died and were useless. She's human she can only get so strong. If he made her female krillin, you would bitch

Killen, Yamcha and tien all get shit on every time.
Videl is far weaker and hardly trained.
Yamcha current powerless is probably higher.
She's still weaker than a saibaman.

>So was Kuririn, Roshi, and Yamcha.
Exactly, none of these losers were anywhere to be seen during the Buu saga. DBS is such a fanfiction riddled mess that Videl could eventually show up, though.

Videl thought she is a very strong fighter and realized that shes absolutely nothing compared to the main characters.
Gohan probably has more potential than his dad and quit, Vegeta has his pride and potential.
You cant compare them at all.

>krillin and yamcha died and were useless.
Yet Toriyama didn't throw in the towel with them. They garnered fans over time and were used in fights, especially included in the most recent tournament.
Read above. Videl could have gotten stronger from training with Gohan just as he taught her ki control.

>Videl thought she is a very strong fighter
>and realized that shes absolutely nothing
Nice headcanon.

and then if freeza poked holes in her, you would complain

It doesn't matter if it's a girl or a boy, whenever someone beats the shit out of someone who can't defend themselves and the scene just keeps going on and on and on, then of course the scene will get a reaction. There are fair fights, there's murder, and then there is sadism. Pain is powerful catalyst for identification, most audiences can't remain cool when they watch a character suffering on the screen.

Maybe she stopped fighting because she was beaten half to death, and like a regular sane person, didn't want to go through that again.

Male humans werent relevant through the entirety of DBZ (except for a few seconds each) and didnt even attempt to do anything during the Buu saga.
DBS is shit and shouldnt count.

>krillin were useless

as if

>you

you mean like freeza did to vegeta or androids did to trunks ?

Kuririn got killed by Tambourine in Dragon Ball as a child yet kept fighting.

I don't know I never watched DBZ.

Why would videl want to fight superaliens?
She's unironically happy dating Gohan and chilling.

What about launch?
What about those female saiyans in super?
What about red ribbon army in DragonBall?

>But muh videl who never took training seriously besides 30 minute karate practice kids usually have.

She's focused on school and wants to be independent you dumby. She's her own woman and you're oppressing her with your own fantasies.

>competes in the tournament of the best fighters in the world and is able to defeat criminals with guns
>sees that her BFs 7 year old brother can fly without trying, shoot laserbeams and Vegeta can destroy a punching machine without any effort while shes just a meme strong human
>headcannon

neither of those scenes got reactions

People still make fun of Vegeta getting trashed by Freeza.

Come one. Dragon Ball power levels weren't as ridiculous as the Buu saga, every single human stopped trying after Cell.

Krillen had nothing to live for.

>you're oppressing a fictional women

don't get lost in the tumblr falseflags now

>Freeza
see >Androids
They're main villains who needed to be killed and they just koed him even in the movie

and he became used as a punching bag for freeza and cell

>if they get beaten up, there is massive outrage.
That's only if they're pretty. If pic related actually got her shit pushed nobody would bat an eye

>Why would Krillin/Yamcha/Roshi want to fight villains who completely overwhelmn them in the power department?
I'd rather you just admit you have double standards.

he saved the day like 4 or 5 times after Tambourine

Ay it's what the subject is about. Muh female human that can beat flying spacealiens.
Doesn't refute my argument.

Doesn't change the fact that Kuririn was a human child who met death in the first time in his life yet never felt discouraged on fighting.
But he kept fighting.

yamcha retired

roshi didn't do shit in Z and only came into tournament where killing wasn't allowed

krillin quit and became a cop

Videl stopped fighting because no one gives a shit about Videl, her PL is too low and she doesn't have much of a character outside of being Gohan's wife

In DragonBall sure. Early z sure. Maybe some sneegy plays in z.

He's kinda weak but he trains 23 hours a day probably in gravity shit knowing about space aliens and videl practices for half an hour a day to fight other humans.

>roshi didn't do shit in Z
Yet Toriyama never let him go like Videl after a single fight. Roshi fought in RoF and in this tournament of power.
>krillin
Same with him.

Krilin may have stronger resolve than Videl, has that ever crossed your mind? Yamcha gave up right after getting killed once, don't you remember?

Dragon Ball Super is literal official fanfiction, not canon.

he tried a bit in the android saga before getting penetrated

Ironically she was beaten up so badly because of her strength of character. She wouldn't give up.

Perhaps she quit fighting because there is literally no reason for her to. She knows her dad isn't the one who beat Cell and no longer has to live up to his example or whatever. It was her boyfriend, ridiculously more powerful than both her and her dad and his crew fight beings just as strong. There is no incentive to bother. There are better, happier routes, like being a housewife.

>Krilin may have stronger resolve than Videl
Exactly. Toriyama intentionally threw in the towel for Videl after one fight when he could have done the same thing he's done with Roshi, Kuririn, and Yamcha. There's absolutely no excuse, especially with how headstrong Videl was.

if videl entered the ToP and frost proceeded to torture her like he was doing to roshi, the bitching would be endless

Only in early Z actually, secondary characters didn't matter in DB but it was okay since it was just fun and adventures

Revival of Freeza was a film written by Toriyama before it became an arc in Super.

No excuse for a character having different traits and personality than other characters?

In this case, most definitely. She was a fighter, a confident one at that. The first whose shown to be apart of the main cast yet also want to fight since Chichi. Unfortunately Toriyama couldn't let go of his personal bias and Videl suffered the same fate as Chichi, albeit more sadly.

>torture
>roshi

Krillin didn't fight anyone that wasn't thousands of times weaker than him in the Buu arc. Videl doesn't matter just like everyone who's not a Saiyan doesn't matter after Namek. They only recently started fighting again because Toriyama realised it was a dumb choice to make, but no one gives a shit about Videl so she's not gonna fight again thanks God.

What is OP trying to prove here? That Toriyama can't write women? We know this already. That Toriyama doesn't care about female characters? We know this already. That women usually become housewives after getting pregnant? We know this already. I don't get the point he's trying to make.

>Videl doesn't matter just like everyone who's not a Saiyan
When will this meme end?

>how headstrong Videl was
She was headstrong because of her daddy issues. She could be headstrong as she was, the reality is she'll be trashed over and over again. Most people aren't sadists like you, they don't want to see cute girl get beaten up repeatedly.

I do. Videl getting her shit kicked in was very hot.

Strongest angel in anime

>after Namek
Piccolo briefly fought a subvillain (didn't stop him) and helped Cell find the androids.
Tien delayed Cell's final form by a few hours.
Krillin caused Cell's final form.
Everyone jobbed to the Cell Jrs.

>they don't want to see cute girl get beaten up repeatedly.
And thanks for proving that you haven't read a single one of my arguments when I've stated time and time again that I would have wanted Videl to grow stronger from her experience with Spopovich instead of settling down as a housewife.
I think we're done here, your refusal to admit your double standards are too great. Piss off.

good taste

Yet came back and continued to fight villains like Freeza and even Beerus when he tried to ruin Bulma's power. They still fought and never gave up that trope of bravery.

Bulma's party**

Best girl.

>Android 18
>Zangya
>Arale

Toriyama had a few strong girls. But he tends to keep it male vs. male for the exact reason people don't like the Spopovich fight. When men beat the shit out of women, even if the girl is strong, it never feels ok. But look at this fight as a storytelling devise. What did it do? It showcased the brutality of Babidi's fighters (which would be driven even further when Babidi and Pipi ruthlessly kill both of them a few episodes later).
The real question is, is it possible to make characters worthy of your hatred if you don't show them doing hate worthy things?

so if videl was still a fighter and repeatedly got beaten up by the likes of freeza force, tournament fighters, etc it would be fine?

>they don't want to see cute girl get beaten up repeatedly.
and that's your fucking problem, you're seeing videl as some "cute girl"

>Yet came back and continued to fight villains like Freeza and even Beerus
After Namek and Buu, Toriyama wanted
>jobbers
>make dropped characters be more relevant
Videl is too weak to be a jobber, and she wasn't relevant enough in the first place to come back. So it makes perfect sense she's not fighting.

Why did Toriyama ever stop doing gag shit?
This is gold

i guarantee you if freeza beats up kale or caulifla like he did that yardrat. there will be a LOT of bitching

...

Shonen is made for boys, women btfo

>missing the whole point: the post
Please get out of this conversation with your personal bias.

Mostly. Girls get beaten in shonen or capeshit all the time. You might get a few complaints that it's evocative of domestic violence but that's really all and there'll always be retards to cry about everything.

...

Not the same person, dickeater. No one gives a fuck what you would want. The reality is she would take an asswhopping every single time. She did get stronger, just not the way you wanted.

Kale got viciously beaten by two aliens in the ToP, you already forgot?