Is this the sorriest excuse for a "fight" in a shounen arc finale?

Is this the sorriest excuse for a "fight" in a shounen arc finale?

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At least he looked cool back then.

You're shallow.

b8

>sorriest excuse for a "fight" in a shounen arc finale
You're missing out:
Bleach
Naruto
Toriko
Rave Master
Seven deadly sins
Row row fight the powa

cell would have been the perfect ending for dragonball.

>old enemy comes back
>the son surpasses his father.
>the rival realizes he is a prick

Fact!

Shit had zero build behind it. No fight
psychology. And didnt tell a fucking story. It was a glorified walking montage.

Gohan hit less than 6 hits the entire fight. And became a pacifist outta nowhere.
He he did do shit the entire arc and now he gets to be the hero. Fuck outta here.

This entire arc is overrated as fuck by causally anime fans that dont watch anime. And nostalgic DB fans. Period.

The Freeza and Buu arc where superior.

DB is 90% style.

How? Literally everything in this arc was random and came outta nowhere with too many plot twists and retarded character decisions.

>Hyped up 2 cyborgs that are suppose to be killers. The do nothing.
>or These arent the Android s youre lookin for.

>They want to kill goku. They drive there.

>Cell a monster from another timeline that somehow comes to the present with zero build. Outta nowhere.

>Cyborgs just let themselves get absorbed

>Vegeta turns into a retard that keeps fucking everything up. Wants to fight 17&18 and let cell become perfect.

>Gohan had no build and didnt do shit. And had a total shit fight.

>And cell's regeneration had 1000 plot holes in it.

The entire arc was a mess.

Series toppled after the Garlic Jr. arc.
Prove me wrong.

Gohan should have had some fights before that in the arc.

That's not Ichigo vs Aizen.

Seriously, more than 200 episodes of build up for that fight, and it's literally nothing.

>And became a pacifist outta nowhere.

Oh, you're one of those retards.

You forgot One Piss

>Fuck outta here.
Oh, you're one of those retards

Anybody got the sexy webm of Hit and Jiren throwing punches at 60 fps? I think it was cut content. Saw it in one of these threads but didn't save it.

>Oh, you're one of those retards.

Oh, you're one of those retards.

Actually a pretty good post.

Only one he forgot was Fairy Tail

muh 'their friendship is so powerful i give up even though i was literally winning until they all stood up and held hands while staring at me'

Is that all you can say. You guys must be those types of retards on youtube that get but hurt if someone dislikes something you like. Take off the skinny jeans and pull out your butt plugs faggots.

I bet you dont even know Gohan's real age. Chodes.

It really isn't.

Fuck you

Kid Gohan is cool

>getting your dad killed by being a stupid fuck is cool!

Leave it to Sup Forums to be this autistic about the best arc in dragon ball.

>Hyped up 2 cyborgs that are suppose to be killers. They do nothing.
Because a worse villain appeared in between and goku was still alive to reveal the existence of the time chamber
>or These arent the Android s youre lookin for.
How is that a bad thing?

>They want to kill goku. They drive there.
The cyborgs primarly wants to have fun, killing goku is as just of a mean to that end than driving to his house.

>Cell a monster from another timeline that somehow comes to the present with zero build. Outta nowhere.
He was introduced early in the arc, that's not what a villain who appeared out of nowhere is (hello Kaguya).

>Cyborgs just let themselves get absorbed
What? both 17 and 18 tried to fight back.

>Vegeta turns into a retard that keeps fucking everything up. Wants to fight 17&18 and let cell become perfect.
Are you implying that he wasn't this way before? Are we still talking about the same saiyan who taunted Freezer to transform just to get trashed by his new form?

>Gohan had no build
Easily the most retarded thing in your post. No build up? Did you somehow forget the fights against raditz/Nappa/the ginyus/Freezer?
>Didn't fo shit
Except, you know, killing Cell and saving the earth.

>And cell's regeneration had 1000 plot holes in it.
Vastly exagerated but true. By the explanation he gave when he came back to earth he should have died to Goku before that.

All shonen battle anime are like that, especially One Piss.

He's right though. Do you not remember piccilos training or Gohans character for literally EVERYTHING up to the cell saga? Gohan was always a pacifist and always exhibited exponential boosts in power when angry. Jesus man. Cell x Gohan fight is still the best fight DB has to offer.

No, they may be at some degree but none of them does it as bad as FT does. In One Piece when Luffy gets a power-up there is usually another reason behind it that makes it believable in the universe. In Fairy tail it's almost always "It's friendship, I ain't gonna explain shit".

He's absolutely right about Gohan having little build. He literally does nothing in the arc until its time to fight Cell. Keep in mind how the power jumps from the first set of androids until perfect Cell. We're talking 4-5 huge jumps in power in that arc alone. We don't even see how far Gohan progresses in the 3 years because he doesn't do shit until they go an train again.

He's going to be the main hero of the arc and he's a bystander for 95% of it. He was far more active and involved on Namek. Goku gets shit for missing chunks of arc but he's still more in the story than what Gohan was during the Android shit.

Gohan being the surprise hero was meant to be a subversion of the usual "Goku saves the day" trope that the series had grown used to. And even if Gohan wasn't hyped up to be the hero, his hidden power was being hyped up since Raditz, so it's not like it comes completely out of nowhere.

Whether that's good or bad writing is your call, but there was a reason for it.

>He literally does nothing in the arc until its time to fight Cell.
No he trains with Goku. True it's not much but not nothing

>Keep in mind how the power jumps from the first set of androids until perfect Cell. We're talking 4-5 huge jumps in power in that arc alone.
Dude stop trying to keep tracks of powerlevels and trying to make sense out of them. There is a reason even Toriyama abandonned them after Namek.
We don't even see how far Gohan progresses in the 3 years because he doesn't do shit until they go an train again.
What? he trained with Goku and Piccolo before 19 and 20 appeared and again with him in the time chamber

It's "I was 12 when I saw it" the fight.

You can apply that logic to all of DBZ.

Buu arc manages to be even worse, only Majin Vegeta was kinda okay but Jesus Christ why didn't they ended this show in Freeza arc? Unforgivable shit.

It was ok in the manga.

In the anime you get one of the most emotional and well animated scenes in the series with the SSJ2 transformation.
Then the animation turns to unwatchable shit IMMEDIATELY afterwards as the fight starts. It's like a joke on the viewer.
Like "Did you like the sakuga and cool details, user? WELL BAM! FUCK YOU! EVERYBODY IS A CARBOARD MUTANT NOW lol"

Just fuck Toei.

>It's "I was the target demographic when I saw it" the fight.

Many a fag is in a prison of their own nostalgia.

obviously a joke post, ssj2 gohan vs cell was the hypest shit

a really shitty fight is right here in the bleach finale. i actually had to look up what happened because it was really that unmemorable.

Get a towel and wipe the cum off your lips.

>ssj2 gohan vs cell was the hypest shit

How?

He's deflecting by trying to devalue the post.

Luffy always asspulls wins because I FIGHT FOR MY FRIENDS

He's no better than Natsu.

DB fans in general.

>Except, you know, killing Cell and saving the earth.
With help and yeah at the literal very END of the ARC. Yeah that's great, lets wait till the last part of an arc to do something relevant.

>How is that a bad thing?
Umm because it makes Trunks look like a retard. Seriously. They hype them up to be killing machines and nothing. If not for the History of Trunks movie no one wouldve believed Trunks warning to be that serious. It buries them.

>The cyborgs primarily want to have fun, killing goku is as just of a mean to that end than driving to his house.
Again makes Trunks' warning look dumb.

>He was introduced early in the arc, that's not what a villain who appeared out of nowhere is (hello Kaguya).
Yes but we were told about two extremely deadly killing machines and that was what we were suppose to get. Cell being added to the story was as random as 16 existing. It took at credibility any from 17 & 18.

>What? both 17 and 18 tried to fight back.
They were 100% outclassed and had multiple opportunities to run but nope, they just stick around and get sucked up.

>Are you implying that he wasn't this way before? Are we still talking about the same saiyan who taunted Freezer to transform just to get trashed by his new form?
On Namek Vegeta wanted everyone dead even freeza. And showed no mercy to everyone. With Freeza he wanted Freeza to not have any bullshit tricks. And im pretty sure Freeza would have transformed regard less of Vegeta. Freeza isnt stupid. If he was introuble he would change. Like Zarbon.

>Easily the most retarded thing in your post. No build up? Did you somehow forget the fights against raditz/Nappa/the ginyus/Freezer?
By that logic Krillin should be the hero. He had the same experiences. Same for goku and piccolo. And that doesn't mean shit for gohan when "Your not in the story 98% of the time." He was a mailman. And plus no motivation.

Gohan was ready to fight the androids at the start of the arc.
He goes into the time chamber after being pissed as hell at Cell for nearly killing Piccolo, and then decides he doesn't feel like trying to fight anymore.

Trunks should've been the hero. He's the only one that deserved anything.

Gohan was hyped up as being far more powerful than a being who bested Goku. And it happened.

So user had a point, the fight was pure hype. You nerds being older and cynical enough to see the fight as boring and one-sided in retrospect doesn't change that.

Its one of those fights where it seems cool the first time you watched it, but then you realized they barely actually threw punches at each other.

When Cell came back as Super Perfect, Gohan immediately getting his arm damaged and the remainder being a beam-o-war was such a missed opportunity for a real brawl to take place.

Gohan was overwhelmed and nervous due to the sudden pressure put on him by Goku to defeat an enemy that not even he could beat. Pacifism has nothing to do with it, he isn't fighting all-out because he didn't enter the fight with a warrior's mindset, he entered it as a scared and confused kid.

By the time Gohan figures out why Goku chose him, he tries to use words to get Cell to back off because he has no idea how to access his hidden power. He's stuck and he knows it, so he tries to scare Cell into thinking the fight's already been decided.

This arc was better because it went old school dragon ball. And did many things cool and better than Cell.

·Added School Slice of Live which was a cool addition. Was like a classic superhero hidden identity thing.

·Brought back a REAL marital arts tournament.

·Had a nice Z fighter reunion.

·More world building with other world and the Kais.

·Dangerous villain lives up to hype and gets shit done. Beats all the Z fighters, kills every human on earth, and then destroys it and many others. No fucks given.

·And delivered what people wanted for years a Rematch between Goku and Vegeta. (1st canon SSJ vs SSJ fight).

·Plus no one knew who would be the hero. It was open, which was a good thing. And the tag team of Goku & Vegeta was the best choice.

·The old school came back with Buu because that's what DB always was an Action Comedy. And later got more series with pure evil buu.

>·And delivered what people wanted for years a Rematch between Goku and Vegeta. (1st canon SSJ vs SSJ fight).

If you read the manga, you wouldn't be bragging about this at all.

Yeah, After talking shit to Goku about him being soft on him and criticizing Goku's power performance with Cell, and then turns into a pussy after get the spot light.

Tbh I only liked the Vegeta and Goku fight, I didn't like the kids becoming SSJ so easily, the villains, the fusions, the "now someone can beat Majin Buu but fucks up for no reason again and again".

I respect your opinion but I can't stand that arc while Androids arc is kinda comfy at the beggining. Anyway I'd just end it in Namek.

So it was shorter big deal. So where alot of things in DB. Still got to see it. So who cares.

You're aware that's filler, right?

The only complaint I see is "why does gohan have flaws!"

It's not that "it was shorter", it's that the vast majority of the fight takes place off-panel and is largely ignored in favor of what Gohan is doing.

You can complain about Gohan vs Cell not having much actual fighting, but you'd better also be willing to have similar complaints about Goku vs Majin Vegeta since we barely even get to see it.

I never got why this fight was so popular, it's not even the best fight in Dragon Ball

One time an upload of Cell v Gohan got over 30mil views on Youtube before taken down

Gohanfags

>With help and yeah at the literal very END of the ARC. Yeah that's great, lets wait till the last part of an arc to do something relevant.
So now we went from "He did nothing" to "he did it too late" huh? Nice goalpost moving.

>Umm because it makes Trunks look like a retard.
How exactly? I agree it would have been better if he could have shown them a photo of 17 and 18 but he only met 2 cyborgs, he had no way of knowing that there would be more.

>They hype them up to be killing machines and nothing
It was to show that Trunks somehow altered that past universe and that's why things turned out different from his reality. Were you that eager anyway for yet more sociopathic villain? 17 and 18 turning out to be more humans than the other antagonists was a nice change of pace.

>Again makes Trunks' warning look dumb.
How? I will remind you that the futur cyborgs had fun at an amusement park. Them wanting to have fun doesn't mean that they won't slaughter anyone.

>Yes but we were told about two extremely deadly killing machines and that was what we were suppose to get. Cell being added to the story was as random as 16 existing. It took at credibility any from 17 & 18.
And again, Trunks butterfly effect. It was also stated that the "past" and the "future" were parallel universe and not the same timeline, given that explanation the same things don't have to happen the same way in both timelines.
>had multiple opportunities to run
Such as? 17 got cocky and was absorbed and 18 was always cornered by Cell/Vegeta/Trunks, there were reasons.

>On Namek Vegeta wanted everyone dead even freeza.
And you think he didn't want Cell dead? Somehow you are mistaking Vegeta letting him absorb 18 for mercy when he he actually did it for his ego and nothing else.

>By that logic Krillin should be the hero. He had the same experiences.
I was not talking about experiences but power. When did Krilin exhibit the same kind of insane potential that Gohan did?

>And plus no motivation.
Wanting to save your homeworld, your loved ones as well as yourself seems like a pretty good motivation to me but then I guess it's just my opinion

Off panel yes but it made DBZ logic sense. If everything is happening super fast then that's fine in the manga. And it actually increased the drama a bit. Because of how fast Buu got to full power. And makes it less awkward for Gohan & Supreme Kai for not engaging Dabura & Babidi immediately.

And at least in both the Manga & Anime we got more kicks and punches from both fighters.

>And the tag team of Goku & Vegeta was the best choice.
No that was horrible and broke up with the end of Cell saga as well as Goku's reason for not killing fat Buu. This was by far the worst mistake of the Buu arc. The heroes should have been either Gohan or the kids.

Just because things are happening fast doesn't mean the fight should just be largely ignored. Toriyama was perfectly capable of showing us more, but he didn't, and it made the whole thing feel cheap. I don't see how it increased the drama. If anything, it hurt it.

And there was hardly any action shown in the manga. What we got was nothing special.

Ssj Goku vs Freeza was also shit. It's really incredible how Toriyama repeated that mistake again with ssj2 Gohan vs Cell.

But SSJ Goku vs Freeza was an actual fight.

It was Goku toying around with Freeza.

Goku and Vegeta were better because it gave us TRUE closer to their rivalry. Which has been ongoing for years at the begining of DBZ and now it ends with them. And not to mention both fan bases for both of them enjoyed this a lot.

No at least there are reasons in universe that explains the power-ups. Against Doflamingo, it was because he spent two years training.
Against Oars, the souls.
Against Blueno, because he got previously shit on by aokiji and the CP7 and had to come up with a way to get stronger.
On the top of my head I can only think of the fight against Lucci where Usopp speech somehow gave Luffy more energy.

I may have forgotten a few fights but saying that Luffy does it with the same frequency as Natsu is bullshit.

What rivalry? It was mostly just Vegeta wanting to beat Goku.

>Goku and Vegeta were better because it gave us TRUE closer to their rivalry
Their rivalry isn't as important as the theme of the Cyborg saga as well as the theme of 80% of Buu saga. The manga kept trying to tell us that Goku can leave the earth to the new generations and then in the last turn "lol nope" it did a 360 turn and moonwalked back.

> And not to mention both fan bases for both of them enjoyed this a lot.
And this is exactly the problem with Dragon Ball in general, fans pressuring the author to do what they want at the expense of the manga's quality.

The fuck are you talking about. That was an actual fight with build and hype behind it. And fight psychology and storytelling and emotion. Plus the added drama of wondering how the hell Goku was gonna escape from a dying planet Namek. This was real cool shit.

Plus Goku toying with Freeza wasnt until like after 100% Freeza. It showed just how powerful SSJ truly was. That's how you sell a transformation that had type.

No. Gohan never deserved it and wish is why Toriyama canned him. If you look at the end of Z, none of the "kids" including gohan gave a shit about being fit.

The Luffy asspull against Lucci was worse than anything Natsu has done. Because it didn't have to be one: Oda went out of his way to force it just to make Usopp relevant.

Goku always wanted a rematch with Vegeta that was the whole point in letting him leaving earth. The rivalry was always there.

It was an incredibly passive rivalry on Goku's part, at best. Once the shit on Namek happened, Goku stopped giving two fucks about fighting Vegeta again for pretty much the rest of the manga.

>Gohan never deserved it and wish is why Toriyama canned him
Then why did Toriyama kept building up Gohan as the sucessor of Goku that culminated at the end of the cyborg saga?
Why did 80% of the Buu saga was about the new generation trying to save the earth with the old generation trusting them to finish the job?
If Toriyama originally didn't want that Gohan would be the earth next protector, why did he do all that?
Face it, the only explanation is editorial pressure to make more bucks out of the manga by giving to the fans whatt hey wanted.

>dad tries to get you killed so you can possibly get a power boost

Toriyama himself said he just didn't feel like Gohan was suited for the role as the main hero.

The Buu Saga was Goku and Vegeta's fault in the first place for fighting. It makes sense for them to be the ones to fix the damage. Plus no one believed for a second Gotanks would be the One & we all knew Gohan was gonna fuck up. He did with Cell so this would be any different.


And the fans have nothing to do with it. Toriyama makes these choices either on his own or his bone head editor convincing him. Fans have nothing to do with it. If that was the case Vegeta would be the Center of attention in DB 90% of the time and the hero. But he's not.

youtube.com/watch?v=aYSmABWrazQ
>Cell arc
>Bad

Spotted the Boo arc powerlevelfag.

>Toriyama makes these choices either on his own or his bone head editor convincing him. Fans have nothing to do with it.

>It makes sense for them to be the ones to fix the damage.

Which makes Vegeta's whole "earthlings should help for once" thing pretty questionable.

because he made a mistake. Gohan is a scholar at heart and half-saiyans have desire to achieve other things than being the hero. They might be prodigies but lack the desire to fulfill their talent

The final Kenshin fights, the one to rescue Kaoru, was pretty shit with no real build up and a lot of arbitrary shit happening

>we all knew Gohan was gonna fuck up
Nope, litterally how could he have fucked up if not for the "O MY ABSORBING ABILITY", unlike Gotenks he didn't have a time limit so there was no reason at the time to believe he would fuck up.

He has a bad history of fucking up

>made goku die
>died in the future
>missed the earrings
>didnt kill buu

Gohan is just a gag character. Talented but a jobber

>Show the flaws of his reasoning
>"Bakana! I can't be wrong! It must be the author who is wrong!"

Dude that's because the editors were fucking dicks and rushed Kubo after chapter 680. He was forced to write the final battle that way by upper management and not through laziness. Did you NOT read the Juha Bach CW Ichigo fight prior to that rushed fight? It was real good.

>Akira Toriyama: I intended to put Gohan into the leading role. It didn’t work out. I felt that compared to Goku, he was ultimately not suited for the part.

I don't understand why Gohan fans just let him be who he really is? Guy just wants to study and be a family man

>it gave us TRUE closer to their rivalry
Which already happened when Vegeta begged Goku to beat Frieza.
Or when Vegeta admitted he was suprassed and decided to not fight after Cell was defeated.
Or when Vegeta fought Goku as a Majin and then went on to sacrifice himself against Buu.

Gohan may have ended up becoming a jobber and a cuck and you can hate him, but the shafting he received in the Buu arc after all that buildup was, in terms of writing, the worst shit in the history of the franchise.

>Toriyama himself said he just didn't feel like Gohan was suited for the role as the main hero.
What was he supposed to say in an interview for a mag?
"Yeah, I admit I scrapped the orignal plan due to backlash and I didn't really give a fuck anymore."?

>What was he supposed to say in an interview for a mag?

He is just repeating what he has been saying since the beginning of the manga of dbz Gohan is a scholar, not a fighter.

here he says it again

youtube.com/watch?v=0aDcWucKFjA

>Made goku die
True
>Died in the future
that goes for literally everyone bar Trunks.
>missed the earring
We are talking about pre-absorbtion buu DB
>Didn't kill buu
He tried but Buu got away.

And a gag character wouldn't have been the one to kill Cell.

Character's personality =/= character's role in the work
Are you literally retarded? This is completely irrelevant.

He wouldn't have killed cell without the help of Goku. He basically gave up when Cell returned. Goku had to talk him into overcoming cell.

Without Goku, he is nothing. He needed gokus help in the future, needed Goku's help in cell saga , needed Goku's help in buu saga and neede Goku's help in super. Not sure why you don't understand this

As if he would admit that he fucked up in front of an interviewer.
My point still stands either way, you don't go in one direction for the overwhelming majority of your manga/arc and then U-turn at the very end of it. The determinism in Naruto is a prime example of that.

Do you not understand that his personality is the reason why Toriyama dropped him from the main character? What part of Goku suited the part over Gohan did you not understand?

To be fair, this arc was very hyped since it was the final one, but damn if it didn't deliver, well.. at least until the end. Just imagine what could've been.

Editors are dumb.

gohan was all originally about "potential" and now he is just the definition of wasted potential

The final arc as a whole was the third best arc of the series. Only Soul Society arc and Pre-Reaper were better.

Kubo really learned from the criticisms of the Fake Karakura Town War arc and took it to heart.