Has literally seen and talked to god

>has literally seen and talked to god
>calls himself an atheist

i don't get it

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Probably atheist in the sense that he doesn't worship God and/or doesn't like him so he can piss ofd than the angsty teenage God doesn't exist way

You can't just.

He outright says shit like 'God don't exist'. The sentiment is also absurd when you consider the actual tradition of alchemy.

even by the end of the story we and by extension the characters in the story don't know what the truth really was. He called himself "Some call me god, some call me the universe, some call be all, some call me the truth" but essentially we don't know for sure, other than something like that being exist in every person, and it might be that they are all different beings, because the one that inhabited Al acted differently than the one that inhabitant Ed

So no, from a scientist point of view, he has not confirmed a "god" yet

Truth wasn't God

>and talked to god
I thought Father was God and Truth was a higher being.

I'd have several questions for god.

Truth only said some people call him God. He never claimed he is one.

he is an edgy character like that black hair ninja guy

Isn't that only from 2003? 2003 doesn't have any kind of God.

No, he also said that in the manga

...

Hitchhiker's Bablef8sh explanation.

God requires faith to exist, and evidence of g9d destroys faith.

I checked. He says "we alchemists don't believe in gods" but in context that just means they are skeptical and don't follow dogmas. He never talked about his own believes.

okay i'll concede that truth may not literally be "god" as we refer to him, but wouldn't you think experiencing something like that would fundamentally alter one's perception of the idea of a deity or higher being? he straight up acts like and even specifically says that he doesn't believe in higher powers/god. not that he doesn't worship, but that he thinks humanity and science is all there is.

and he says all this AFTER he gets pulled into an extradimensional realm, is magically bestowed with ancient knowledge, gets both his limbs ripped off, and his brother turns into a walking talking tin can.

>beleives Satan is a real entity
>isn't a Satanist

I don't get it.

Lets say you're a caveman and one day you meet a isekai'd modern Japanese schoolboy with a cheat skill and the ability to recreate modern technology. He tells you he is God. Do you believe him?

>a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.

Then he should have said religions not gods
Entire fucking series is just them all jacking off over their particular magic bullshit while claiming to be superior because in their particular religion their god/magic actually works.

If Truth is a God then so is Ed

It's up to the eye of the beholder and ed never saw him as god. It's the same reason why Tanya from youjo senki is an athiest.

He was being an arrogant little shit.

The whole "alchemists don't believe in gods" thing is referring to how normal humans in that universe believed they could use alchemy to make themselves something more than human. That's like half the symbolic shit in the entire series, it was directly tied into the plot and climax with Father and the moment Ed gets Alphonse's body back by throwing away alchemy. He also said it somewhat tongue in cheek because he used to be just like that and got btfo for it and is still mad about it.

Well the truth was never stated to be a god. It is said to be a thing that is everything. It's probably not looking over us either. It's just a higher entity that manages equivalent exchange

>The whole "alchemists don't believe in gods" thing is referring to how normal humans in that universe believed they could use alchemy to make themselves something more than human.

Ironic though. Them not wanting to be something other then human but desperately looking for power to pretend to do something that only gods and magical entities in religions and mystical legends can do.

>magically bestowed with ancient knowledge
He traded his limbs for them, it conformed the law of equivalent exchange in universe, so yeah that thing is "science".

Ooga ooga uck

The point is that alchemy is treated as science in Amestris. They only explain the universe and apply its theories. Truth is treated as a force of the universe and not a superior being with a will. He is not deified

To be fair, whatever "god" he conversed with made it pretty obvious that it doesn't care for Ed, or any other human's, well being. So in that sense, can you really blame him for thinking religious worship is retarded?

I always just assumed him and King Bradley were just being maximum edgelords because they felt God was a prick.

Well, Truth IS a prick.

"God" in anime just means powerful person.

Not the same

Oh yeah. Ed knows.
But Bradley never met him. I think Bradley just hates "God" because it is a concept that enforces the idea that free will is a meme, which is true for him, but he doesn't like to be reminded of that, evidence by his dying words about his wife. Or God fucked over his life hard by making him an eternal puppet for others.

Truth is yourself, so who's the real prick?

The real prick is (You)

My point was that knowing a god exists, and being atheist, are not mutually exclusive.
If there was suddenly undeniable proof that the god of Abraham was real and all humans suddenly knew this fact, would that then make everyone on Earth worship this god? Do you think Atheists would suddenly bow down of their own will and start praying this God bring about miracles, or to explain the complexities of the Universe?

In FMA, Truth doesn't really DO anything worth being worshiped over, just like in real life YHWH couldn't beat iron chariots. Alchemists solve and handle problems on their own, and we have steel tanks now.

>Tumblr
Fuck off

Ironically is voiced by a Christian in English.

What was wrong with the 2003 adaption?

No happy ending, fuck that shit I was a kid when I watched it.

The Demiurge isn't god.

This, but slightly more complicated. Kami-sama WILL refer to actual gods including the Christian ‘God’ and so on. But yeah, very often the intended meaning is ‘like a god’ or ‘at the level of a god. Most characters that say things like this don’t believe they are becoming like an omnipotent, omnipresent god, just a powerful ‘kami’ (though I’m sure sometimes it’s the other way round too).

That's in the first episode, you dip. He had no idea what "the truth" actually was until the end of the series.

>My point was that knowing a god exists, and being atheist, are not mutually exclusive.
but they are, that's exactly the definition of an atheist. you can believe in god an not trust/hate him/it but you still understand that some kind of supreme deity exists.

>>calls himself an atheist
Only in the anime, and he kinda gets over it when he realizes the world is a big place.

Yeah there's a lot of fake gods that are a crutch for people which is what he gets angry about, but he is a man who has seen the truth beyond the gate. Think he could hardly deny it after the second time.

>supreme deity
What makes this entity supreme, or a deity?
Just because Ed knows Truth exists, doesn't mean he beleives Truth is some sort of all powerful god or anything. He just acknowledges there's an unknown entity with vast knowledge that exists outside of what he understands.

Looking at things differently, let's say the universe was a simulation. If I discovered this fact, and even got to observe the humans from our host universe, and recognized them as beings that created our universe, do I then stop being an Atheist, because you think these beings should be called gods?
Fact of the matter is, a "god" isn't a being that creates the universe, or anything flashy like that. A "god" is a being that's worshiped as such, so because a "god" is something vague like that, it means that Atheists are already wrong, because I could very well worship the Internet itself as a god, and it would be so. But Atheists would still be atheists, because they don't worship any god, whether or not there actually is one.

Because FMA's god is not "le extraplanar deity that creates things and oversees", it's a concept of truth, everything, etc. More like a natural law than something with consciousness and plans.
As far as we know the god Ed met was just part of himself, and it makes sense that if god is everything, everyone is god, just separated by a gate.

So yeah, they're not atheists they're just anti-religion.

The worst atheists are religious faggots who hide their acolytism for and hatred of it or others (insert religion here) behind athiesm.

youtube.com/watch?v=pa8xXpsOfrs

>jobbed to Jesus
>jobbed to other angels
>jobbed to God
>jobbed to fucking Job

Who would worship him?

>jobbed to fucking Job
Kek

Humans that like knowing things, instead of being mindless sheep? God's whole beef with wanting Adam and Eve was that the serpent convinced them to eat from the Tree of Knowledge.
God tells you to listen and believe, satan tells you to think for yourself.

>t. satan

If it makes you guys feel better he learns to accept God and the truth in the end of the series.

So if you're from another religion and meet the christian god does that make you a christian?

Let me get uh one 1 Thessalonians 5:20-21

Thinking is evil, be a good goy

Except Father's greatest sin is denying Truth's will

makes sense desu

FMA isn't a good manga about the idea of God.

people traded small right to choose sitting in that garden for bigger one which is in the end the same small one with assorted garbage fillers but nobody would know that without trying.

Put Edward and Tanya in a room together.

Who fedora tips harder?

Nice. Need to meet this guy

It seems to me that God's main purpose is overseeing "equivalent exchange" in Alchemy. That's all we see him do after all, and he's tied to the 'Gate of Truth' which is what allows people to perform alchemy.

So in a sense, Ed, as an Alchemist, worships God.

Tanya easily.

>tfw you are only worth as much as your older brothers leg

yeah, fan theory, but whatever;

after the series ended, i was under the impression whatever was behind those doors was basically their universe version of the Akashic Record; a collection of all human conscious thoughts, events and emotions from the past to the future. Basically, knowledge & truths, itself. accessing what's behind the door naturally coming with a brutal price, if not something the human psyche or body can't handle on it's own.

the white space with the single door itself would be the collective unconscious. note how each door for Ed, Al, and the Homunculus in the Glass differ greatly in design, with the latter effectively being a blank slate, signifying either how he's not really human or did not develop normally as humans would.

the so called "God" sitting there could pass off as the individuals id, ego, or superego, or collection of those all together. To put it in Atlus speak: it's the individual Shadow, or every person's Zangetsu really just there looking out for your despite how rude they are to you.

Why do people assimilate science and atheism, when the philosophical and mathematical basis of modern science is based around concepts that are just as abstract as God ?

science is it's own thing. atheism kind of co-opted it as an alternative belief system to religion after societies became more secular. scientific principles themselves never claim to be the end-all-be-all and are always subject to change, which is something that overzealous atheists sometimes forget. adoption of them as a belief system sort of makes sense though since, for lack of a better way to put it, scientific logic just works. although i'd say a more accurate summation of an atheist's position would be materialism, not a blanket term like "science".

i'd say the overly dogmatic adherence to science some atheists have is just a mechanism to replace a previously religious worldview with the next best thing they can find.

Materialism is not a belief that is held by anybody. You will not find a single human in the entire world that does not believe in substance dualism.

>couldn't protect his smile

;_;

You're right, it's mostly materialism, combined with a childish understanding of what science actually is.

>couldn't protect their smile

>same reason why Tanya from youjo senki is an athiest.
Man, reminds me of what happened to Mustang. "Lol you got forced to open the gate? I'm taking your eyesight."

Eh I don't know. Just because God made the internet and is tied to the 'Great Firewall' doesn't mean I worship him when I use it.

Isn't the whole point that he saw the truth during the attempt of transmuting his mom, and that's why he can do Alchemy with no circle?

i dunno man i've seen some pretty hardcore defenders of pure materialism on here. not saying i agree with it though.

there's a difference between seeing that freaky shit and connecting the dots to that being GOD

If somebody believes that there is or is not an afterlife, they do not believe in materialism.

>79 posts in
>no one has replied to this yet
Wow I feel old

God is defined in FMA as the everything and every single little part of everything. God is just the rules of the world, and different religions explain possible stories as to why "God" made those rules the way they are; why is there pain, why is there suffering, what is good and what is evil, etc.

>substance dualism
You're already dead Descartes. Go back.

>If somebody believes that there is [...] an afterlife they do not believe in materialism.
right

>If somebody believes that there [...] is not an afterlife, they do not believe in materialism
how? a proponent of materialism wouldn't (or rather, shouldn't) believe in an afterlife if they believe consciousness is merely a physical process in the brain that fully ceases upon death. that belief is logically consistent under the umbrella of materialism.

Why would a non-religious or non-spiritual person have any beliefs about the afterlife at all? You know, beyond its existence as a cultural idea/phenomenon.

Because the question of an afterlife wouldn't make sense in the first place to somebody with a materialist view of life.

Because sciences' successes, I guess you could say, sort of raises the standards on what counts as "worthy of belief". Or adds new standards.

It's sort of why the hard sciences mock the soft sciences. It's not some philosophical thing.

Thats before he learns that he saw God.
Even if he knew somehow it was God, the thing literally took away his brother soul, arm and leg.
Theres no way anyone would see that as God.

That's retarded. Like that argument that atheists aren't REALLY atheist, cause they "worship themselves", or some silly shit like that.
Your idea of a materialist is an unobtainable entity that exists outside of cultural knowledge.

A materialist can fully understand the cultural view of life and death, and merely conclude that all of it is just the result of chemical processes in the brain, and that the question of an afterlife is fruitless because "You" are just the current state of a configuration of fundamental particles, in a specific frame of time.

but... that's my point.

the question can still be raised by someone who does believe in an afterlife, and that belief can be rejected through materialist principles, ergo a materialist doesn't believe in an afterlife.

What are you guys even talking about?
I can't keep up......

Then it was just a semantic fuckup because I consider "not believing" and "believing their is none" as different things, with the latter humoring the question in the first place.

That comes up a lot in talks like these. Belief, no belief, and belief in not-X. It's clumsy because 2 and 3 aren't usually kept separate in casual english.

Usually it doesn't matter. It's a pain when it does because no one is used to talking like that.

Why are you still arguing about god? We saw her hundreds of times during the series.

I could never lewd anyone besides Lust. The nip artists really failed me there.

I only remember him being an atheist in the 2003 version.

Though, I do recall him saying something about doubting whether God exists in Brotherhood early on, which was kind of weird. I guess part of him was still trying to rationally explain Truth as some kind of gatekeeper rather than an actual God? I dunno.

>I thought Father was God

>Truth wasn't God

Father's master plan was literally "I going to absorb God".

ah okay i see what you're saying now. shoulda picked up on it earlier.

>jobbed to fucking Job
this is why I still come here