Localizations should be as literal as possible

Localizations should be as literal as possible.

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That's not even a literal translation though, it's literally a lack of translation.

But yes you're right.

I wish I could talk to the guy who subbed like that and ask him why. Not in a provocative way, I really want to know what his reasoning was.

A lot of people did it back in the olden days.
I think it was a combination of thinking it was "cool" and wanting to spread the coolness that was nip-speak.
Also, thinking certain words lost it's meaning when translated. Like "Nakama" from One Piece, sub group back in the day thought it would lose it's "weight" if they translated it or whatever.
Obviously it's gay and that's why it died.

>Original
>Do your best!
>Translated
>You can do it!

The irony of this post is that the group responsible for OP's screenshot is still around and still this bad.

Because they think it "means" fools but it doesn't EXACTLY have that meaning due to a small nuance, so they left it untranslated.

For the same reason people don't translate "onii-san"

muh jelly donuts tho

Buffoonish amateurs who don't understand proper translation entails?

Pretty much

...

It's TV Nihon or whatever, right? If not, who is it?

This isn't /m/, user. Use anime.

Anyone have that old Tsukuyomi image where the subbers just left in "Kouhei-oniichan no baka!"

Yes, it's TVN.

That's a 8/10 cake.

>anime & manga
>OP's pic is neither anime nor manga
Hmm, really makes you think.

I'd still hit it.

Heck, if you're too lazy to actually use the translation note for explanation of why "Obaka-chan-tachi" is different to "baka-tachi" then just translate it as "my dear foolywoozles" and be done with it.

TV-N was a mistake.

Here, user:
tvnihon.com/taxonomy/term/45

>It was suggested that people would learn better by having the translation each time, a reenforcement of the meanings. And that makes sense, but it would seem to me that you'd learn a Japanese word better if you saw the Japanese phrasing. People more than likely know animal names like "hawk, tiger, grasshopper", it's the Japanese that they need practice on. Even if you missed a note, I'm sure you can infer "that's a bird" or "that has tentacles", it must be this animal. There's nothing wrong with saying there's a slight bump in the learning curve that one must overcome. I mean, you're watching a Japanese show with subtitles and not a dub or English remake for a reason, right?

He thinks that if he doesn't translate shit, it will help the viewers learn Japanese.

Who cares! This is toku thread now.

fuck off /m78/

You need to go the fuck back to

Because fuck you, that's why
No really, TV-N are smug assholes and really believe their translations are the best
Which makes me wonder if all subbers feel the same way (but at least it made me learn Japanese so I can avoid them)

>Which makes me wonder if all subbers feel the same way
Tends to be the case for bad subbers. Good subbers know the value of criticism.

Goes for everything, really. Shitty artists and shitty writers have a tendency to consider everyone except their biggest asskissers trolls, while good artists and good writers are more humble and accept feedback.

That's a good point.

Because baka-chan-tachi is a fun word.

Even Hadena would consider this bad.

I think, he is right. You should steak to dub.

>Cartel faggots discovered Sup Forums
Fuck you.

>Buffoonish amateurs who don't understand proper translation entails?
Translating honorifics and onii-sans is the dumbest idea ever. Eat your burgers, faggot.

Just learn moon at that point

Didn't hear the original, but left side looks much better.

Why? You can easily translate those words.

>ignore half the dialogue
>mistranslate the other half
>better

No, you can't.
Nii-san
Nii-chan
Onii-san
Onii-chan
Nii-sama
Onii-sama
Aniki

How? "Big brother" for all of it?
It's moronic.

I don't know what any of this is, nor any of the context for it, so it's not really a useful image. I mean, for all that I know, both sides could have been released by the same group, the right intended to fix the issues apparent in the left.

>>ignore half the dialogue
Did you hear original? I don;t thinks so. Right side could be (and most probably - it is) just an over interpretation and scriptwriting for "better" flow.

No, user.

People like you that just assume translations are correct because that's what the subtitles say is the entire reason TVN is still around.

You don't need a word for word translation to convey that information in dialogue.

You just use their name, with varying degrees of reverance or familiarity based on context.

LIKE HOW PEOPLE SPEAK IN ENGLISH.

Go away TVN

Should we change their names to western ones to while we're at it?

>casually say name
>use nickname
>casually say name
>use nickname
>more context sensitive, various different things would apply
>see above
>bro.

>You just use their name,
Fuck. Are you serious? I mean, really? Fuckfuckfuckitfuck. You made my day. Seriously.

It's from Kamen Rider Hibiki. The left is from TVN and the right is from another group. You can always tell TVN's work because they try to use fancy font faces and effects, especially during transformations.
Also TVN would never fix their work because they believe their work is always accurate

>LIKE HOW PEOPLE SPEAK IN ENGLISH.
In Japanese series, with Japanese characters, in Japanese town and Japanese family. Consider kys.

When was the last time you went around addressing your siblings/cousins by their titles in relation to you?

Maybe cus/bro/sis, but we generally address each other in fundamentally different ways in English, however we carry over the same information, just in a different way.

>dear

Yes, because what I'm doing is "translating" I am taking this Japanese series, and putting it into a readable format in English with as little loss of information as possible.

If I was specifically trying to preserve flavour I'd keep some specific titles, especially for sengoku era things, I wouldn't turn Daimyo into lord, etc.

Fansubbers should not aspire to be artists or writers. Their job is not to make an artful representation of a foreign language. Their job is to assist in comprehension for an audience that has a relatively high level of baseline knowledge of what they're dealing with already. Subs without honorifics, with names swapped around, or with familial terms replaced are the result of arrogance.

That is how actual Japanese literature is translated. Only anime and manga fans who don't know any better expect anything else.

>When was the last time you went around addressing your siblings/cousins by their titles in relation to you?
I can use my brain and I can assume, that usage of honorifics or different words to call siblings/whatever in a foreign movie/series can be a cultural thing. I can understand that my country is not the only country in this world and if I decide to watch a movie from different country, I want to understand it as close as possible, especially if (if it comes to Japan) honorifics are a huge part of thier culture. Removing it, replacing by names or translating 10+ phrases to 1 is plain dumb. It's acceptable only in dubs, because dubs are made for kids.

Literature is translated for a wide audience. Fansubbing is for a smaller and drastically different audience

My point was more that the image should be updated to clarify these things, or perhaps that bits of the script should be included so as to allow a more fair comparison. Making simple dialogue sound complex is an extremely easy way to publicly discredit others, and is frequently used as a tactic in 'scanlation/sub wars'. It's not clear, to a neutral or uninitiated viewer, who is correct or why they are correct.

I only speak for myself, but I only want the language translated. I don't want the original meaning to be changed at all, in my opinion it's better to use onii-chan etc and just learn what honorifics are. Seeing a name and hearing onii-chan is jarring and stupid. It doesn't take that long to learn, even t/n could do it.

>honorifics are a huge part of thier culture.

Yes because their language is structured this way. You can keep the cultural importance on status relative to yourself without them because English works differently to Japanese.

The rest of your post is by and large jumping through hoops to try and justify it. You aren't gaining any understanding of Japanese society or linguistics by seeing it in your subtitles. You gain that by actually studying it. (and anime by and large is totally abnormal anyway)

They shouldn't be considered translators as much as friendly helpers.

>I don't want the original meaning to be changed at all

But translating that doesn't change meaning. There's -very- few situations where it would do anything, and you can account for those times and do it differently in those contexts.

>They shouldn't be considered translators as much as friendly helpers.
Oh, then give me more "friendly helper" and fuck all "true" translators.

>Onii-san
>Ogre
Its shit like this that makes me wonder how the fuck do they translate shit if they barely have any grasp on the language

What if the Ogre was also his Onii-san?

>weebshits who use bullshit terms like "tsundere" and "moe" in subs instead of just translating them

To be fair, those ones can be a bit more finicky, and those are terms which can add to the flavour of a piece which means that in the right work it's totally up for debate if you should keep em around.

>it's totally up for debate if you should keep em around.
It's nothing to debate about.
If you are translating (or rather trying to, because there is no way to translate it) terms like tsundere, moe, names of traditional Japanese food etc, then you are just a xenophobic moron.

"Moe" is just a word for cute and "tsundere" can be easily translated as "hot-cold," there's no reason to leave them as they are

They mistook "onigokko" for "Nigoku" too.

>"tsundere" can be easily translated as "hot-cold
Cutting "translator's" fingers is not enough for doing something like this.

>"Moe" is just a word for cute
Um, no?

Moe isn't just cute, it's covered a bunch of different concepts. And lets say Otaku no Video, lets imagine it was a book right, I'd be tempted to leave terms like Moe, Otaku, etc for flavour purposes and because it provides a bit of insight into the culture which the work is intended to provide. I'd put a bit of a foreword in and have the terms neatly in an appendix. (I'd specifically keep the number reasonable so you don't flick back and forwards a lot)

>names of traditional Japanese food

No one translates names, that's dumb. Otherwise we'd be calling people shit like CHERRY BLOSSOM QUIET.

I think translating nakama to comrades or crew in the context of One Piece still holds more weight than simply friends, since it invokes a deeper sense of family.

>watching Shimoneta on KissAnime
>random honorifics added where there aren't any in the dialogue
>Anna-sama-senpai
>Onii-chan-san
I don't stream anymore.

Like, Moe specifically is perfectly translatable, but the context it's in depends on how you do it. Japanese by and large is more context based than English. You can use a word and everyone knows what you mean based on context, while in English we'd use a different word.

How do you think I learned Japanese?

Why don't you just learn japanese instead of spending time arguing why people translate it so bad?

Because if they learned, they'd realise it's not as bad for the most part as they think.

>Oh, ok.
>Let's learn Japanese
>one week later
>ok I can watch anime without subs
no, it doesn't work like this. And I could easily assume that people complaining about subs and localization are already learning Japanese.
For example, I'm using subs as support. Sometimes I can't understand a word or something and I'm looking at the subs. If subs are localized and liberal-edited then it's confusing and distracting as hell.
Sometimes I can't even believe that people are watching their anime with so much mistranslated and altered subs. No wonder why moe series are hated by some people. With burger subs it's really pointless to watch it.

But I did, O baka-chan-tachi

It's pointless to watch anyway. Tomino series are much more of a big deal the shift from English to Japanese. the dialogue really loses a lot when it's translated (most of the time, sometimes it keeps what makes it special)

>tfw there's still a bunch of anime with TV-Nihon tier subs
>they'll never be re-subbed because they're all old shit no one cares about

>understand enough Japanese to notice when words are localized
>this just makes me worried that there are worse changes that I can't hear

Just like translating watashi, atashi, boku, ore, washi, etc. as I is an aberration, right? Watashi want a kissu from onii-chan, onegaishimasu!

>Bro
>Bro
>Big Bro
>Big Bro
>Brother
>Dearest Brother
>Bro/Boss depending on context

And that's why whenever wordplay and shit based on this shit is used, said translations become useless. Actual Japanese literature is translated for trailer trash, no different than best buy having computer packages to sell to moms who can't even use their iphone properly.

Are you saying you want everything to be based on that standard? Is it an extreme of best buy and being a rocket scientist? Is there no middle ground for the average enthusiast aka everyone on this fucking board?

aka
>I'm fucking imbecille

>Just like translating watashi, atashi, boku, ore, washi,
This actually doesn't affect the story/relationship in most cases. There was a certain scene in Kimi no Na wa where it was important and even official BD subs explained it properly.

>I know a tiny bit of broken japanese that's largely contextless
>thus I am an average enthusiast

"no" that would be the very small number of people that are in shit like DJT and actually learn shit.

And Japan is widely regarded in literary circles, a lot of Japanese novelists are highly praised, they get very good translations. A couple of authors even write their own English versions of their novels.

>listening to this on audiobook
>conversations between the Japanese have honorifics in them

What the fuck, why isn't this book properly localized?

Chiaki Horan a cute.

This guy gets it. No one wants word-by-word translation (is it even possible? fir me, it's just a retarded argument for people with no arguments), but most of anime fans (something more than shitty Dragon Ball or other mainstream shit) want Japanese culture properly reflected in translations. They aren't watching anime for American jokes and setting. It's quite opposite. And don't forget that majority of anime fans is not from US, so localizing it to US, in current situation (English is universal language) is plain stupid, but typical for burgers.

The writer was a historian, who made a specific point to show the Japanese point of view and adding honourifics adds to that, as well as avoids him having to alter the contents. None fiction books get a lot more of a pass to read badly.

>chic means fashionable

I wonder if there are autistic westaboos on 2ch that get angry when Japanese dubs of American cartoons add honorifics or other Japanese phrases

I've only seen a few Japanese-dubbed cartoons but none of them used honorifics. Maybe they're better about that sort of stuff?

Undertale localization sparked big debate on JP side due to pronoun choice.

How so?

>you don't get it you baka, "bro" "bruh" and "brotha" have clearly different connotations

...

Now that is a sub i can get behind