Name the exact moment that Naruto jumped the shark

Name the exact moment that Naruto jumped the shark.

Not the moment it goes to shit (obviously that's Naruto vs Kiba when the budget suddenly ran out and it became a generic QUALITY romp). Just when it no longer was what you thought.

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The manga? It was already bad by then, but there was no coming back from the stupid moment when Nagato revives everyone. I know that Kakashi wasn't meant to die due to Obito, but Kishimoto shouldn't have killed so many characters in the first place. It just removed all weight for the story; and that same feeling of "who cares" continued all the way to the end.

Naruto is a gateway anime of the worst kind. It's a bad series, a clusterfuck of story and characterization that isn't very well done by any aspect, but which attempts to compensate for its weaknesses by adding in excessive shipping faggotry and DARKNESS. The normal user can see this as the shit it is, and may enjoy it, hate it or be indifferent to it, but all the while recognizing that the series itself, regardless of their opinion, is plain bad.

However, these very aspects that try to smear over the shit of its core make it a breeding ground for aspie, unsociable underageb& faggots who engage in every kind of faggotry both online and in the real world. The superpowered characters all trying their hardest to look cool, the jutsus, peculiar, colorful clothes, the whole ninja faggotry and everything about the Naruto world fuels their escapist fantasies, while the pity-party character backgrounds, emphasis on revenge, and overall preachiness of the series make it fit just right with the mary-sueish drives of your average preteen and his sense of unwarranted self-importance towards the world. Exactly the kind of shit that makes little kiddies and underageb& retards eat this shit right the fuck up.

Naruto is basically THE series to attract the most hated anime fanbase known to Sup Forums, which is why, regardless of individual opinions, it is the responsibility of every user to troll the fuck out of this show and everyone who likes it, and ensure that no Naruto threads ever encourage the newfriends to show their faces here.

>Naruto vs Kiba

Literally the only remotely clever Naruto (the character, not the anime) ever had.

It was actually surprisingly consistent with its world and boundaries overall until Shippuden
If you want to pick like a specific shark jump it'd have to be either Susano'o or Rinne Tensei

Rinne Tenei was the "no turning back" moment that removed all tension from the story. At that point, you knew Kishimoto could just asspull whatever he wanted to give a good resolution for Naruto.

>>Naruto vs Kiba
> went shit

dude, all fights in that arc were top tier. specially gaara vs lee. kys

I remember I started to read Naruto at the same time as I picked up HxH (around 2000). But after a few chapters I knew that I didn't really care for the character of Naruto and dropped the manga. A few years later a friend made me watch Naruto up to the Sasuke-rescue ark.
I never got really excited about it. So there was no precise point where it went off the deep end for me, it just got more and more tedious with an uninteresting premise and a dumb protagonist. I only got really disappointed in it when I had basically already dropped it.
In HxH the main character has some depth, and he does what he wants. He explores the world and has fun with his friends. The fights and powerlevels are not the only thing tying the whole manga together.
Naruto as a character is a manifestation of shonen cliches and the plot is just a construct for the battles and morals.
That is not to say HxH is good. But it accomplishes those things that Naruto fails at.

Naruto was clever against Pain. If you think he wasn't you need to read that fight again.

Chapter 1
First page
First panel

Somewhere between the first sasuke retrieval arc and the arc where sai showed up
anybody remember sai?

You are my ideal commentator.

See, that's where you and everyone else who parrots this are wrong. Let me list off those reasons.

A. Sage of Six Paths controlled life and death. He was literally in control of the Gate of Hell and could necro people back to life with his own chakra. Power-wise it was within reason.
B. Naruto convincing Pain in spite of the damage being done and having no concept that it could be overturned spelled out the difference between both; as Pain couldn't even fathom swallowing that degree of anguish. He had every expectation that weakened Naruto was going to try to kill him, and either he'd beat Naruto with the last of his strength or become vindicated in his quest to try to stop the cycle of pain by being a martyr to it. Naruto showed him love was more powerful than hate. Something he sympathized was worth trading his life for Konoha.
C. As you said, Kakashi had unfinished business but it's not because of Obito he lived. The entire last 200 chapters are all about breaking the cycle of karma that Pain was so obsessed with. There was another force throughout the manga steering the story. I'm not saying Pain couldn't have killed Kakashi, but if he had then that would have gone unresolved and Kakashi would have been revived by Kabuto in his prime and somehow or other it would have wrapped up.

I agree. Susannoo was the breaking point. But it came before Pain which is what makes it so hard to defend Naruto. On that note you're just as wrong as the other guy.

For me it was probably during the arc where they had to rescue Gaara but I dropped right after the Pain arc.

But isn't HxH just a Naruto rip-off? The Nen plot device sounds like it's a font for Ninjutsu. I know Naruto heavily ripped off YYH, with Sasuke/Hiei and Itachi/Sensui and Kabuto/Elder Toguro, etc. But all those things were changed enough to be indistinguishable from the source.

HxH sounds to me like it's Naruto's forest of death arc continuously.

After the first timeskip (the one where Naruto fights Sasuke with the curse seal fully fledged). Sure, there were some good moments, but the ninja war was where it all dropped the balls completely.

Nah the entire pain fight was like the peak of the series, the resolution was stupid, but if you wanna talk about when the manga really hit it's low point it is definitely the kage summit arc.
Like after rinne tensei the manga really took a nosedivw in quality and had it's uos and downs with Madara's shenanigans, but it never became as good again as everything pre rinne tensei.
Even if rinne tensei itself wasn't the breaking point you can definitely agree that everything that came after it was way worse than the series ever was before.

So the ninja war or after the time-skip? There's a long discrepancy between those.

I say everything after rinne tensei, rinne tensei itself might not have ruined it for you, but you can definitely agree that the quality took a nose dive after that.

>Nah the entire pain fight was like the peak of the series, the resolution was stupid,
Pain was literally just short of a GOD. He was the culmination of every chakra type. Literally an avatar for the Geddo Mazo. Master of the Rinnegan, which allowed Madara to see into the future and cast a jutsu to revive posthumously. And the point that gives you pause is a jutsu that specifically trades one's life for others within a nominal time-span? Keep in mind, the fox alone could revive Naruto after Sasuke punched through his heart, to say nothing of Pain.

>manga really hit it's low point it is definitely the kage summit arc.
FUUUUUU- Why do you even read Naruto? The Kage summit and Danzo fight was high point of the manga. The only thing Kishi failed at was going into why they arranged it, obviously because the villages are beholden to the Daimiyo's and they couldn't allow Madara's boogie-man status to strike fear and undercut their funding. That Sasuke chose that venue to kill Danzo was only convenient because he would want to incite war between the villages as long as Konoha was destroyed.

Yeah, I agree that otherwise post-Tensei is not as good as pre-Tensei though, but not because of those reasons.

Kage summit everyone was so fucking terrible.
Naruto getting a panic attack and starting to hypeeventilate to the point he loses conscious, because Sasuke was now officially a criminal, the fakefession which really didn't help.Sakura's character at all and as much of an edgelord Sasuke he acted waaay too edgy even for him, like.he was so fucking edgy to the point it was ooc even for him which says a lot.
And it wasn't even really build up.or anything since during the bee fight you saw that he still cared about team.7 and his team mates and the arc after that he suddenly returned to normal so what even happend?

It just reay highlighted team 7's worst aspect and dialed it up to eleven.

I agree. The blond haired girl in the main trio is also a ripoff of Sasuke, she has red eyes and her clan was massacred... So yeah...

> But isn't HxH just a Naruto rip-off?

HxH is older than naruto, and give how shitty naruto is, HxH cant have copied from it

I'd say the time skip, most of the stuff before that while variable in quality overall had the same sort of actual "Ninja shit" feel. You had stronger and weaker ninja but you also had a rock-paper-scissors thing where the right abilities were contextually useful, where a variety of characters could win or lose battles off of things like tactics, etc.

Once the timeskip happened it gravitated much more towards more conventional shonen, and that sort of group feel to it was dead to me.

I can see why you think that and I respect your opinion since shippuden started off way weaker thsn any nardo arc befir, but up untill pain atleast it also had the strongest arcs in my opinion.
Gaara and the kannabi bridge arc was weaker than any pre timeskip arc, bit I also thought the hidan&Kakuzu arc, ti uchiha brothers arc and the jiraiya/pain arc were better than any of the pre time skip arcs so.I think that it balanced eachother out up untill pain.

OP asked for when it was no longer what we thought, not the moment it went bad to no return. I did actually like the Pain Arc, but you have to admit that even though it was better than the rest of the timeskip stuff (up until the resurrection, anyway) that it was very different.

>that it was very different.
Well I can agree with that.

Sauce rescue arc. It really marked the point where there would be no more missions or world building. At basically guaranteed there would be no more arcs like the land of waves

I really liked Sasuke retrieval, but I feel like it jumped the shark with the introduction of Itatchi and Kisame.

>all these people who don't know what a shark jump actually is

Timeskip when one of the strongest characters get finished off by a nobody

Naruto trully ended on this page
mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v47/c439/15.html
this is what you call jumping the shark.
And yes
>mangafox
because Naruto doesn't deserve anything better.

I liked it because the team used was literally only the guys they had around after the attack. It also gave us Drunk Rock Lee.

>I liked it because the team used was literally only the guys they had around after the attack
And it was the most.based squad in the.series.
youtube.com/watch?v=Psr4rq-ICu8

I recall when I stopped watching: Kabuto snake version was talking to the half black half white nigga about... Something... I was completely lost and started to wonder why the fuck I was watching.

>Choji vs Jirobo
>Neji vs Kidomaru
>Lee and Gaara vs Kimimaro
Fuck I used to love Naruto so much, shit

Naruto is one of the shounen series that really suffered from an anime adaptation. Everything feels so much more generic and boring in part 2 because Kishi was trying to match the anime's style

I was so happy that Rock Lee got a really cool fight.

>tfw I used to watch that story arc on youtube with all the episodes constantly getting flagged and every episode being cut into 3 parts because of youtube restrictions
>tfw part 3 was always just 2 minutes of the show and the ending

I've always said Gaara was the moment things started to go wrong

TImeskipp

Shippuden, the Akatsuki shit

The Naruto vs Pain arc was the moment the entire series went to shit. Sage mode was retarded.

In the manga we had almost an entire year of Pain explaining his dumbass story to Naruto and then just being convinced that Naruto is the chosen one in the end. Boring as fuck.

Agree

Susanoo and other eye jutsu entirely unrelated to the functions of an eye. Also unearned power ups in general, sage mode was great and I guess kyuubi cloak makes sense due to relationship development between Naruto and Kurama but it's ANOTHER strength/speed power up after sage mode.

TL;DR the jutsus became less strategic and unearned. My favorite part of the show was the power system.

Five Kage summit is when it went down, mostly.

Itachi should've never been retconned into a good guy. Discuss.

kurapkia came first though

>Power-wise it was within reason.
>It's entirely reasonable for a character to be able to res anyone

Honestly, I'd say that everything post-Shippuden has some shitty writing in the fight department. Hidan's conclusion is wildly counter to the entire setup of chakra stamina and the overarching morals, Kakuzu's fighting prowess vanishes around Naruto, and then you have the "summon and brainwash the greatest Snake and use a timespace jutsu on zero chakra"

>sage mode was great
I actually disagree with this. In one week Naruto went from nearly being killed by a weakened Kakuzu to being able to beat 5 Paths of Pain in like 10 minutes. It also conveniently allowed him to ignore the downsides to the Rasenshuriken. People shit on MS for being OP but Sauce jobbed in nearly all of his fights after getting it.

it went down the trash the moment kabuto brought strong ninja back to life

>you and everyone else who parrots this are wrong

You are wrong, it was it made death in Naruto have as much impact as it had in DBZ, none

if you wanna see fetch quests and fights against literal who then watch the filler. also play the video games.

It was balanced by a pretty relevant downside of gathering energy and the shadow clone integration made perfect sense. Maybe it should've been a little weaker, and thats why I don't like Kyuubi mode since I felt sage mode was poweful enough, but I like all the technical stuff about it.

I would also add that chakra reserves and costs became increasingly inconsistent as the series went on.

>if you want to see a show about ninjas continue to act sorta like ninjas then play video games

O MY MANGEKYOU

You mean the time he lucked out due to a literal fart?

Are you implying the games are bad?
It is like one of the few good things to come out of the retarded power creep.

Something about Sasuke's repeated spinning kick is hilarious to me.

>gotta go fast!

>implying farting on someone with enhanced smell isn't clever

Naruto turned Kiba's own abilities against him

Almost all the fights are better in the games. It's really quite something.

I remember watching fairy tail on youtube, I was literally tasteless

The arc where they fight the sound 4 was bullshit and I didn't really like it after that. Boring fights with zero tension because you know none of the cast would die.

It's made by the guys who did asuras wrath, so you could expect some cool shit.
Also the president/CEO seems to really like Nardo like there are more pictures of him cosplaying as nardo then there are of him in regular clothing.

To me I feel Gaara was one of the better things to come out of this entire series. He was an incredible overall character and seeing his development throughout the entire shitshow was really heartwarming. The climax of his arc with meeting his dead dad and learning his mom loved him always gets to me.

Top 10 Anime Battles before the anime turns to shit

Around the time Sasuke tried to kill Sakura after just getting in fights with multiple kage's and Naruto was still convinced to save him. That moment of realization will always stick with me.

this has to be bait

Sage of Six Paths is our never before mentioned God, Rinnegan is the never referenced most powerful dojutsu, muh Child of Prophecy, Hey did you know I trained some other kids I've never mentioned before, the Akatsuki Leader and BH are literal whos, and all of the other random shit he dropped in the same three fucking chapters.

zetsu reveal was dumb. wasted potential for what could have been like a cool biological experiment, plant-type ninja

Shippuden had some good fights. the hidan/kakuzu ones were dope

>Are we allowed to discuss Shippuden?
If so the Asuma arc(or whatever the fuck it was called.) Yeah it was sad. Yeah it was cool seeing shikamaru plan around the enemies plan but it just.....was dull.

>kurapika
>girl

Pain arc.

Shintoism came first though

true but I referring to what he did to the fights, he was the first character in which fights against him became hit him really hard and really fast. There was no cleverness to it.

Shinto bit is good bait, probably, but it's equally as retarded as these other guys. READ ANOTHER MANGA. Contrary to popular belief, Naruto isn't the only one.

When they kept adding new supervillains ontop of other supervillains for basically no reason at all. I would've been content with the series ending after the Pain fight, but I'm fine with Obito being introduced since his story had to be wrapped up somehow. Madara was already pushing the limits since Kishi made him (and by extension most other people like the first Hokage) way too strong.

The true jumping the shark moment was Zetsu being behind everything and Kaguya being introduced with like 2 manga chapters of buildup. You could argue that the quality of the series had already dipped by then (it has) but it was still readable up to this point.

The usual theory is that Kaguya was introduced to enable sequels by having a higher power ceiling with her ayy lmao family, and another is that Madara was otherwise unbeatable. What if the problem was people were rooting for Madara's Infinite Tsukuyomi to work? I was, but Kaguya made it so that the true nature of IT is objectively negative.

In any case I agree Kaguya is the biggest shark jump, but that there were other big ones before it as well.

a fellow oldfag? I remeber one legendary uploader just called the yellowflash. It was so much fun as youtube community was less shit back then and comments were fun to post and read on each section of the ep. And you would basically be watching it with everyone as be talking to the same dudes each video. Was a lot of fun. That was years before youtube started banning everything and then eventually when google bought it and made it a no-fun zone

Mangekyo. Everything wrong in-universe and with Naruto's narrative is because of these fucking eyeballs.

I know that this is well into the series but for me it honestly wasnt until the fight with Kakuzu.
It had significantly decreased in quality before then but i felt it still had some bright spots but for me the moment where it was clear that there was no reason to care anymore, the kind of feeling this guy is talking about, was the Kakuzu fight.
It was looking like the Akatsuki was bringing out some good fights for characters to handle on their own and the main cast was getting back into the spotlight if only for a little bit. Kakashi, literally everyones favorite character, is having a great fight with Kakuzu and then Naruto shows up and uses a move he learned that day to end the fight moments after arrival. At that point it was like, well who gives a fuck now if Naruto can just show up and resolve any arc consequence free with no trouble? It just makes you wonder why we even bothered with the Akatsuki arc being this long when the best fight so far was just fucking neutered so 12 year olds could wank off to one of the worst MC's of recent memory.

>reincarnation of Six Sage's brother
>gifted with special eyes able to fashion reality out of sheer will
>avatar for the Geddo Mazou which had the chakra of like 5 tailed-beasts or something
>Madara used those same eyes to revive himself across space-time by having his own corpse perform Izanagi, then envisioned Nagato's incarnation, ordered Zetsu under the false pretense that he was formed of his will to shape Nagato's life in such a way that would prepare him to wield the Rinnegan again and then subtly transplant them, all with the intent that he perform this same jutsu on him after he died to make himself into a god. A fact that Tobi laments in the very same chapter.
>the same manga where Tobimaru created a jutsu that bind souls from the Pure World to corpses in the Impure World, which just happens to make up one of said Six Sage's powers.

So being fully conscious of every one of those points that had exposition "up to this point", making up the narrative confines of the story, the one thing that breaks the camel's back for you was ninjas who were just killed by Pain getting ress'd is too much? And Sasuke replacement jutsu summoning Mandra when he never said he was out of chakra and obviously stopped his Sharingan because Diedara was on the verge of teaming with him just before he had a judgement lapse to blow himself up because Sasuke was "too cool?"

Kishi is being humble. Zetsu being the curse of the Uchiha had to have some exposition. If Kaguya wasn't behind it, then who?

Didn't Naruto hurt his arm really badly from some of the aftereffect when he killed Kakuzu though? It was alright if you consider he was using a powerful move that no-one in their right mind would try and just lucked out. Then again he has Shadow Clones so I suppose that only works as an excuse once.

bro you're missing the point entirely. In whatever bullshit made-up deus ex pwoerleveling exposition they wasted time doing doesn't stop it from being shite writing and horrifically contrived.

Naruto stopped being fun when Shippuuden came along, but if we're being honest the 80+ episodes of pure filler from the original series were crap as well

Both Naruto and Bleach became shit once they moved away form cool teenagers with dank skills fighting evil theme,to the powerleveling schtick where basically only the protagonist's power matters anymore, and the fun school-life and coolness of the characters with SoL elements gets completely dropped for a shitty DBZ clone battles

Please your manga started getting bad when the Tenchi Bridge arc happened and nothing was accomplished.

Uchiha arc followed and was filled with RETCONNED NONSENSE.

Pain Arc was the moment I said "FUCK IT I'M GOING TO BLEACH!"

Glad I jumped off this shitty ship a long time ago. I found Bleach much better written.

Bleach was better written though.

>power level shit happened in Fake Karakura War.
>timeskip stops this with Fullbring
>TYBW goes horizontal with the powers instead of vertical.

>I found Bleach much better written.
What

Manga didn't CONSTANTLY retcon itself like Naruto, characters were much better written (Aizen had a better moral compass than Sasuke), love triangles were nonexistent in the manga and the art was much better.

There were only minor roadbumps, that is, until Lee vs Gaara. That was the peak of the series, and nothing after that ever came close. That fight alone killed the show because they could never recreate a moment with a deserved, humble powerup. They had to continuously jump the shark to even try to match the precedent they set with that one fight.

>Bleach was better written though.
Don't even joke about that.

You do have some problems if you can't see Bleach RETCONNING itself hundreds of times.

>It's entirely reasonable for a character to be able to res anyone

edo tensei was introduced in the chunin exams invasion, and Nagato was the closest thing to sage of six paths and mastered his rinnegan. it's entirely reasonable. you just dont like it because it feels like a copout to you

I don't think there was any one moment that it truly jumped the shark. It was more of a creeping death for Naruto. A more accurate question would be 'Were did Naruto hit it's peak?' and the answer to that is the Sasuke Rescue arc. After that it started to go downhill. Like I said, it was just little things. Bigger flashier jutsus, less clever use of powers, genjutsu being neutered to the point that using it pretty much condemns you to being a non-character, everyone and their dog being part of bloodline that gives them god powers, fucking Kaiju monster fights. The list goes on and on, and things just piled on until it became an entirely different series from what it was at the beginning. If there was any point at which Naruto jumped the shark, it would have been the point where Kishimoto decided he wanted to write Dragon Ball Z.

I'm not a huge Bleach fan by any means but you don't know what a retcon is if you think Bleach ever retconned jack.

Wait a second. You don't know what you're talking about either. The only one of the Big Three that retcons is One Piece with the Haki bullshit, seastones, intimidation, and the whole wazoo about the powers being able to be anything contrived to the author's whim..

>80+ episodes of pure filler from the original series were crap as well
You say that like it has relevance to the argument.