A Billionaire and a Nurse Shouldn’t Pay the Same Fine for Speeding

Equity requires punishment that is equally felt.

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Depends on whether the intent is to punish the criminal or to recompense the state for your violation of its serenity

agree with nytimes actually

if bill gates and some random retail worker both get a fine it should be based off their salary, but it should be a flat rate for everyone such as 0.3% or whatever

No actually everyone should have exactly the same punishment for the same crime otherwise the entire system is a fucking joke.
If you're too poor to pay the fine I suggest you stop fucking speeding.

Fuck you, 0.3 is a lot of fucking money

>same punishment for the same crime
so, if a nurse gets fined 3 hours wages for a traffic infringement, a multimillionaire CEO should ALSO get fined 3 hours of their wages?

or just 3 hours of the poor person's wages?

>If you're too poor to pay the fine I suggest you stop fucking speeding.
But if you're rich, go ahead and put everyone in danger because you can just brush off the fine, right? You dumb fuck.

>be billionaire
>officially pay yourself min wage

it should be biased in net worth, not a bad idea

No, If one pays $450 the other pays $450.
I'm awfully sorry that some people have more money that you, perhaps when you finally instate your socialist utopia things will be better? Who can say!

This is why you do bodily punishments like hard labor.

Would you like a Gulag trip?

a fine shouldnt exist at all, its just a way for the government to illegally tax people.

if you start making ridiculous fine limits on billionaires, then surprsie surprise billionaires are going to start getting tickets "coincidentally" very frequently

Speeding tickets cannot be contested?

the supposed justification for the fine is to act as discouragement for speeding (which is seen as increasing the danger and chance for injury)

instead of monetary fines, there should be a point system in place. if you rack up lets say, 2 points within a year, your license is suspended for 6 months. if you rack up 5 points, your license is revoked. the punitive measures for point values i gave are arbitrary to illustrate my argument and could be discussed at length to find the optimum balance but you get the idea.

this removes the monetary "fairness" aspect in a way that makes for safer driving and everyone is treated equally regardless of income. it also removes the incentive of police to ticket for the sake of generating revenue, which is honestly what most of them are taught to do by their local government. its atrocious

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>grandpa rapes a little girl
>gets 5 years because he only has 10 more years on this earth

not that high imbecile
not all of those guys money is liquid

>Same crime
>Different weights

wut

For a britbong, you're not half bad. All these fucking marxists on pol. Who would have thought we'd see the day?

Why do people want to drag other people down with them? Wah my life is hard you should make their life harder too so it's fair!

So what happens when somebody with negative net worth and income commits an offense? sure, they still go to jail for murder, but do they have free reign to masturbate in public and dump their garbage in the street? Because If you don't discourage dumb poor people from fucking everything up, well, they fuck everything up.

>so, if a nurse gets fined 3 hours wages for a traffic infringement, a multimillionaire CEO should ALSO get fined 3 hours of their wages?
>or just 3 hours of the poor person's wages?
You are retarded.
Punishment is meant to apply some sort of pain. Fine is supposed to hurt you mentally/emotionally,
so "same punishment" means it should hurt in the same way.

In my opinion a fine is not good punishment at all. It would be better if the punishment humiliate the criminal, like public flogging.

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The goal is to discourage dangerous bahvior like speeding which is illegal. I don’t think a lot of rich people are willfully speeding at all times just because they can afford it. Shitty argument

The chauffeur will pay the fine

this is good too. but see my solution

>Have 99.99% of your wealth in a trust.
>"You" technically don't own anything

Implying billionaires drive

Or get rid of speeding tickets and if somebody gets in a crash let them be legally/financially responsible.

Yes, we agree, fines are shit and incentive for corruption. They're not even fair.
Certainly a better solution needs to be made.

Its like someone in quick sand reaching for your arm, they dont care if they bring you into the sand too.

thx

>Equity
A meaningless word you started using when it because perfectly obvious that "equality," your previous buzzword, was definitely NOT what you were seeking.

A better idea would be to stop using financial penalties as punishments altogether.

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>the government should do something that would piss off rich people

this is a joke right?

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Fines should be higher for nurses-they are usually disease ridden skanks.

>I don’t think a lot of rich people are willfully speeding at all times just because they can afford it.

That's where you're wrong. Take UPS for example. They specifically tell their drivers to park illegally, because in order to save time they would rather pay millions of dollars per year in parking tickets than actually park legally.

That's easy, dude. This requires a new law anyway right? Just write the law to define trusts as being part of your worth. Take every way of hiding money you can think of and write it in the law, anyone who doesn't report it is now breaking the law further.

This isn't about punishing success- if they're fucking up at their station in life they should be punished appropriately. The rich already live like nobility, they should be held to a higher standard and expected to be better behaved than the commoners. But instead they are even more degenerate and disruptive and largely get away with it due to their wealth. Therefore their transgressions should be punished proportional to their wealth so that they get appropriately scaled messages when they are acting out of line.

Millionaires pay more taxes for the roads, so they should be able to drive however fast they want on them.

Fines for white people should also be more because they are more privileged in society

>I don’t think a lot of rich people are willfully speeding at all times

Well the jokes on you

this is better. bring back public lashing as the alternative to incarceration for lesser crimes, and as an addon to incarceration for greater ones.

>Millionaires pay more taxes

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>nigger gets fine
>pays nothing
>realises it can continue to do retarded shit with little repercussion
>continues to do retarded shit
just like real life

Both fines and points already exist. The thing is, everybody speeds all the time. If police enforced speeding laws more strictly, a lot more people would have their license suspended despite being very good drivers otherwise.

Speeding fines are just a moneygrab anyway, if it was actually about safety, they'd do something like . But speaking as a /o/tist, speed itself isn't inherently dangerous and we could do without speed limits on many roads, especially highways.

I agree, financial penalties makes it too easy for the rich to flaunt the laws, which is the exact opposite of what laws are meant to do; punish people no matter their station.

speeding laws are bullshit anyway. most american highways can be safely traveled at 100MPH by any modern vehicle with little issue. The proportional increase in lethality of crashes plateaus after 60MPH, as in you're about as likely to die biting it at 60 as you are at 100.

>This requires a new law anyway right? Just write the law to define trusts as being part of your worth.

No, my man. I'd sacrifice my life to keep trusts the way they are. They keep my stuff safe from being sued away in the (((court system))) if I tap someone's bumper or a wife decides to cash out on my hard-earned money.

Trusts protect private property from legal theft.

Judges always make the excuse that those how can’t pay fines can sell things of theirs to pay the fine

Fines for stuff like speeding are intent to hurt and discourage it (as opposed to other fines intended for compensation - speeding often has no harm done). You're being punished for being reckless and the potential of causing damage. Given that, it's not exactly absurd to consider higher fines for higher incomes. Extremely reckless driving is a pasttime of (young) rich people because they don't give a shit and fines don't hurt them.

So if you want a punishment that actually stops people from speeding, making the fine a proportion of the income/net worth is one way. Some countries also changed speeding from a civil to a criminal offense, meaning you can get jail time instead of "just" paying your way out of trouble.

Problem here is for some it's chump change and therefore not a punishment.

Maybe but you know they're going to use this to increase fines on middle class and not reduce them on the poor, and the rich will be fine no matter what.

There are some left complaints that make sense but their solution will always be worsethan the problem.

it's not theft, if you tap someone's bumper and your trust allows you to say "lol i have no mahney" then you are the thief my friend. you are speaking from a position of pure self interest, not rationality.

The wife thing is why you don't get married, you know the risks going in.

They pay more in absolute dollars, thus contributing more to the building and maintenance of roads than people who pay less. They should therefore have more right to the roads.

Is it supposed to be a punitive fine or is it supposed to pay for the amount of danger you cause by breaking the law? Because a rich person speeding doesn't do more damage than a poor person.

Only God can know what is equitable. No human can know the full cost to any person. So we make justice a flat rate that is blind, because only that is just, and anything else is ignorant profiling.

>then you are the thief my friend
subjective
>you are speaking from a position of pure self interest, not rationality.
Self interest IS rationality
>The wife thing is why you don't get married, you know the risks going in.
t. woman

No they shouldn't. Taxes are not fees. They don't entail anything and they don't even need to be used for what they're raised on.

They do.
taxfoundation.org/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2015-update/
>In 2012, the top 50 percent of all taxpayers (69.2 million filers) paid 97.2 percent of all income taxes while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 2.8 percent.

>The top 1 percent (1.3 million filers) paid a greater share of income taxes (37.8 percent) than the bottom 90 percent (124.5 million filers) combined (30.2 percent).

>The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid a higher effective income tax rate than any other group, at 27.1 percent, which is over 8 times higher than taxpayers in the bottom 50 percent (3.3 percent).

>be jeff bezos
>run traffic light
>fine is two billiondollars
>wtf.jpeg
>liquidate parts of amazon to get cash to pay fine
>lay off 100 workers cus u ran a red light

That won't really change anything. Laws already don't apply to large corporations and rich individuals. If your choices are now to pay $1m for speeding, or $100 to bribe a cop, what'd you do?

Wrong. Self interest is subjectivity. Objectivity requires the removal of all bias. The only rational being is one that exists to observe without acting. Therefore you can only speak from rationality when you internally abandon all your needs, desires and existing opinions.

And that was the last red light he ever ran.

All government revenue should be either fees or fines.

The billionaire doesn't create any additional risk to society. Fines compensate for the undue risk placed on society. Fines are not intended to be punitive.

Absolute != relative. I know it's hard to understand for a burger but please try to keep up.

>blacks shouldn’t have to pay a fine for breaking the law

>do something you shouldn't
>get punished

wow

americans love defending millionaires and corporations so much
they are not your friends

exactly

I agree. Infractions should be in percentages of tax-claimed net worth.

I also think rape, murder, and terrorism should be punishable by torture, organ harvesting and isolation, and white collar crime should be punishable by firing squad.

That's what I find weird about America, you guys have wide completely straight 4 lane highways with good asphalt that could be traveled safely at higher speeds than some unrestricted sections of the Autobahn, and the speed limit is something ridiculous like 55 mph. How come? Highways in my country are all 2 lane and almost always have slight curves, yet the speed limit is 80 mph practically everywhere.

The argument is that they should pay a fine that is no more or less crippling than it is to anyone else. A fine is supposed to be a punishment for misbehavior. If some people have to go bankrupt for the same offense that others sneeze at, it's not doing its job right.

>we should give the rich even more incentive to hide their incomes
>it will now pay off for small towns to extort fines from businessmen to make extra money
>while we're at it, make bums exempt from punishment as well
got any more genius ideas?

tht also fked up amazon and ruined 100 families

>Therefore you can only speak from rationality when you internally abandon all your needs, desires and existing opinions.
Then the rational man will always lose out and be victim and slave to the irrational man.

>millionaires don't pay more taxes in America
wait...holy shit you actually believe this? BAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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By that logic you could argue against any fines.

>speeding laws are bullshit anyway. most american highways can be safely traveled at 100MPH by any modern vehicle with little issue. The proportional increase in lethality of crashes plateaus after 60MPH, as in you're about as likely to die biting it at 60 as you are at 100.

I agree. I bought a new car last year and it's loaded with tech like collision detector, lane assist, and blindspot monitor. It wasn't even the luxury model. On a typical day, I would have to be really retarded to fuck up my driving.

My car doesn't shake above 80 mph like every other car I've driven in the past did. And my car avoided accidents several times from assholes who brake checked me. Why shouldn't I be allowed to drive 90+ on an empty highway with perfect clear skies and sun?

>The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid a higher effective income tax rate than any other group, at 27.1 percent, which is over 8 times higher than taxpayers in the bottom 50 percent (3.3 percent).

The rich pay more absolutely and relative to their income. You're just mad that some people earn more than others.

no because normal speeding fines dont ruin families

The logic behind the current system is that a billionaire and a nurse committed an equal wrong, and equal wrongs should be fined equally. To fine unequal amounts for the same wrong is unjust, full stop.

If leftists think people should be punished differently for different crimes, the next step will always be to punish whites more for the same crime because muh history of discrimination.

>Why shouldn't I be allowed to drive 90+ on an empty highway with perfect clear skies and sun?
Because people making these laws don't know anything about cars or driving and think speed = instant dead chillunz

If you can be bankrupted by a speeding ticket, you should probably be put down.

>ny times author has idea
>author has never read anything, so he thinks its a new idea
>doesn't know this has been a near-universal opinion since the beginning of the USA
>has never read any de Tocqueville
fucking sage, faggot

55 mph is because of a federal law limiting highway speeds to (((save fuel))) passed during the oil embargo in the 1970s. After the law was repealed, most states slowly raised their speed limits but most roads remained at 55. In Pennsylvania, the speed limit was 70 mph (113 km/h) back in the 1950s and it was just recently raised to 70 again a few years ago, and only on a few specific highways. Everybody drives 10 over the limit anyway and the cops generally don't care unless you're going 15 over the limit.

Fixed minimum with an addition percentage based on income.

Physical punishment needs to come back. It's equal for rich and poor, and while traumatizing, it's less costly than confinement.

They literally are though

Speeding can be a criminal offense in Virginia. If you drive more than 20 mph over the limit or over 80 mph total, it's a misdemeanor on the same level as sexual assaults. You go to real jail and unlike in other states, your record won't be expunged after serving time. It's impossible to get a traffic conviction removed in Virginia unless you have a really good lawyer.

>Sup Forums constantly screams about rich kikes
>Sup Forums argues that rich kikes shouldn't face any sort of legal repercussions that actually affect them in the least because that's communism

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Fixed fine and you get whipped if you're dumb enough to commit a crime you can't afford.

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Jews aren't bad because they're rich. They're bad, and some of them are also rich. Rich jews should have all their belongings confiscated because they're jews, not because they're rich.

>Because people making these laws don't know anything about cars or driving and think speed = instant dead chillunz

If you think about it, there is no safe driving speed on the highway. The only way to stay safe is to drive at the same speed everyone else is driving at, even if they are speeding. And at those high speeds, it doesn't matter if you're driving 70 mph or 100 mph. There is always the same risk of death in a crash.

People get more accidents in residential areas than they do on the highways. People also get into more deadly accidents in residential areas than on the highways. But the cops love pulling people over on highways to make people safe?

Sure they do.

because people are fucking illiterate and retarded.
there are fancy signs saying 'slower traffic keep right' but dipshits just sit in the left lane doing 2 mph over the limit. they also don't check their mirrors for people doing 100+ behind them and just pull out because the car they are passing is the only other car on the road because that's all they can see.

we say driving is a privilege, but this privilege extends to literally any dipshit that can use an automatic transmission.

and don't even get me started on the fags always looking down at their cell phones.

How about instead the state doesn't use tickets and fines as a source of revenue on top of taxes?

they know they just want the revenue. police departments (esp. in wealthy areas where there is little actual crime) depend on traffic violations to sustain themselves.

in all honestly we should have an autobahn like Germany

tortfeasor

a complex concept that eludes the marxist mind

Now show us how much they got in tax breaks and corporate subsides

>no because normal speeding fines dont ruin families
wrong. Most americans live paycheck to paycheck. A speeding ticket can be devastating to a regular family financial security

Misdemeanor fines are fucking joke to begin with and are just a revenue generator, it has nothing to do with reducing violations. The best way to go about dealing with misdemeanor infractions would be to issue the fines in the form of community service hours that must be performed by the person in violation. That way everyone is treated fairly, it will actually do something to really discourage people from committing violations, and you will actually get some good done in the form of community service.