Is there any sound and valid argument against "taxation is theft"?

Is there any sound and valid argument against "taxation is theft"?

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None that im aware of.
Its certainly not a voluntary tax system.

No there really isn't, in an ideal society taxation would be voluntary.

so getting taxed 30% to 50% is fair, whilst the money goes to fund niggers and pedophiles.

hmm

I, as a poor student/N.(E).E.T enjoy free healthcare and education.

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>Is there any sound and valid argument against "taxation is theft"?
If you don't want to be taxed, get the fuck out of the country.

Taxation is the price of living in a country.

CHECK EM

If taxation is theft, not paying taxes and then using any service that is public would also be theft. Society in this essence is based on thievery, which changes the negative connotation of it

"theft is the price of living in a country"

fixed

Government needs money to defend the land against aggressors.

[spoiler]Why doesn't government just print the needed money like they already do?[/spoiler]

I understand that tax plays an important role, however most of it goes to either pay a part of the debt off and help niggers/spics?

Why would I want to give people my money when it's not used to benefit me?

there is none

>"theft is the price of living in a country"
I'd be perfectly fine with someone opting out of paying taxes if they could prove they do not partake in anything that taxes pay for in the slightest.

You greedy fucks problem are that you want to take advantage of everything taxes have paid for but not actually contribute.

I bet you don't even tithe at your church, do you?

>Why would I want to give people my money when it's not used to benefit me?
Then create a White only, pro-White country where you trust the government to spend tax dollars wisely and for the White race.

No
>muh imaginary social contract

Do you mean real taxes that go to social programs and infrastructure or the tax that goes into private bankers pockets when we pay for the interest in borrowing from our central banks?

lol. None of that addresses whether or not taxation is theft.

Besides, good luck leaving the country without buying a plane ticket or bus ticket, on top of possessing a valid US passport and ID. Which you had to pay money for (and subsequently taxes on)

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do those taxed consent to being taxed?

Taxation would work as intended in a pro-White, White only society.

Though it is interesting how you post a subhuman non-White culture as your "reasoning" as to not pay taxes.

Property is theft.

there's 0 difference. what do you care the robber does with your stuff after he's robbed you?

Let people purchase roads and maybe we'll have a deal.

Tax is voluntary.

Federal income tax is voluntary, and only applies to gains derived from the federal enterprise.

It is the lawyer, the jew satan, who twists words and arrives at your voluntary consent through coercion which you mau not prove in court.

No attorney who does this remains a member of the foriegn society which awards titles of nobility (esq).

It is your consent and your forefathers consent to not meet this insurrection and overthrow of the constitutional republic.

>Theft would work as intended in a pro-White, White only society.

>lol. None of that addresses whether or not taxation is theft.
Unjust taxation is theft.

Don't like being taxed so much? Start another revolution.

>Besides, good luck leaving the country without buying a plane ticket or bus ticket, on top of possessing a valid US passport and ID.
The border is so porous that you could leave the country by walking across. Eventually you'll come to a country that is shit enough that either they don't have taxes or you can barter your way to a country that doesn't pay taxes.

there would be basicalyy no taxes in a white ethnostate

Social contract, you implicitly agree to be taxed when you live in a country.

Capitalism is Jewish and anti-White.

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I didn't sign a contract

>Let people purchase roads and maybe we'll have a deal.
But I thought travel is an inherent right?

this dude is right

No.
But the only three extrapolations you can make irl from that statement is either :
>Dismantle the taxation system and, as such, the government system it feeds
>Reduce taxes to a minimum for a government to operate optimally
Otherwise you turn into a communist dictatorship
As you can see, option #1 is only as viable as long as every one involved in the previous taxation system agree to the NAP and to voluntarily provide to the government, which is materially impossible. Otherwise, you'll be subject to total collapse and reintegration into a new system, whether it be one native to the state in question or foreign to that state.
Monarchism is unironically the best form of government to get close to a minimally economically involved government sustained by (mostly) voluntary taxation from the aristocratic/voting (in case of a parliamentary monarchy) elites.

>Money goes to VA hospital to help wounded vets
>Money goes to Jew in Switzerland
I think there's a difference

>I have no problem with white countries being turned into non-White countries just as long as my 401k is left untouched.

no
if there were some benefit to paying taxes aside from not going to jail, i would be ok with it
instead, we pay and get inept police, garbage roads, garbage education system, etc etc. but at least we get to not be incarcerated. fucking churches and nonsense sjw schools dont have to pay taxes, but i do? fuck this shit. taxation is theft

Taxation is a voluntary agreement, when you start a job you sign a paper which authorizes taxation, therefore no theft has taken place

You don't have to sign a piece of paper to agree to a contract.

That's the worst fucking image I've ever seen

Crime is a social construct, but even if theft in that scenario is considered a crime by that society, might makes right. The NAP only counts when everyone has the same capacity for force, which cannot exist.

yes I do retard that's how a contact works

>Police
>Fire Dept
>Medical Service
>Public Schools
>Roads
>Military
>Railways (may have been privatised depending on your localisation)
This?

You know that when you log onto Sup Forums you agree to abide by their rules and regulations, right?

Even if you've never clicked on that box that pops up on the homepage...

Yes.

If you believe taxation is theft then you essentially don't believe in the social contract.

If you don't believe in the social contract, you don't deserve/have the right to live within civil society.

Don't walk on the sidewalks/roads that are paid for by taxes. Don't send your kid to public school paid for by taxes, don't call the cops when you're in trouble because they're paid with tax money.

You can have your right to believe that taxation is theft, but don't be a hypocrite and use the things that other people paid for with their taxes.

What if I work without signing the paper that authorizes taxes?

>Yes.
Which just goes to show...

A White Nationalist/National Socialist cares about his people.

A Conservative only cares about his money.

Though I do wonder how all that money is going to save you when a nigger or sandnigger breaks down your door to rape your entire family to death and the cops won't save you because they're more afraid of being called a racist.

You can't (well, unless you're an illegal immigrant), when you get hired at a place they make you sign a bunch of stuff, pic related among them.

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But government imposes that requirement on the business. And so

>thefts

So I'm forced to sign a contract that contractually obligates me to pay them money if I am to work?
Sounds like extortion.

I believe that taxation is theft and I do all of those things. I might as well get my fucking money's worth since it's being involuntarily taken from me.

Eat shit faggot.

It's a law, not extortion. Don't like it? Then vote to have the law changed

The democratic vote is tyrannical in its very nature.

Two wolves and a sheep vote for dinner.
It's a democratic vote, the sheep has no room for complaints.

Again, a meritocratic government of appointed officials is better.
The Monarchy-pill is the true political redpill.

this, why are we felating society and fucking over the individual?

>A White Nationalist/National Socialist cares about his people.

more like he cares for the people half way across the country while his people are doing just fine.

Nature is tyrannical, tjose who belive the world can exist soley on the basis of voluntsry exchange deny human nature as bad as the communists. Wolves will prey on the lambs, from now until the end of time, you just better hope you arent a lamb, or look like good prey.

thats why we're not a democracy.

yeah. It's okay to steal

>Is there any sound and valid argument against "taxation is theft"?
yes

theft is, by definition, unlawful. Taxation is lawful. Therefore, taxation is literally NOT theft.

you could say that excessive taxation is comparable to theft, and be making a fair statement that starts a conversation, but saying "taxation is theft" is not correct if you accept the common definitions of the words you are using.

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A republic has essentially all the same problems.
It's simply two steps further from the cliff.
That nature is tyrannical is justification for tyranny?
A natural aristocracy made of leaders and not tyrants is what I desire.
A leader is followed, voluntarily, based on his merit.
A tyrant uses force to ensure compliance.

>it isn't theft if the people stealing from us have enough power to write a book of laws and say that's what is truly legal
lmao somebody never took a basic civics course. The absolute state of the world when people don't understand the basic distinction between what the governors say is right and what is right.

Yes, it is. Might makes right, whats so hard to understand?

And Tyrone enjoys raping your wife. Does that prove anything?

this would be a fair case to make in a monarchy or a fascism or any sort of dictatorship, but in a democracy you're arguing against the majority. The laws are a reflection of morality, and morality is decided by consensus. The majority of people have decided that taxation is not theft, so taxation is not theft, and it doesn't really matter if you disagree because you don't get to unilaterally declare what is and isn't theft.

The wolves have decided that eating sheep is moral.

youtube.com/watch?v=vn6G3lS9k1E

>If you don't want to be taxed, get the fuck out of the country.
Obviously, that argument fails when a country makes it impossible for a citizen to leave, or when it still taxes citizens after they left (like the US sometimes does).

>Taxation is the price of living in a country.
This begs the question of why the state has the right to claim this price. I don't feel like anticipating any of the possible responses to this question and then writing my objection to them.

>If taxation is theft, not paying taxes and then using any service that is public would also be theft.
Not when use of that service is mandatory, like with schools, or when all the alternatives to using that service (besides not using it at all) are being violently rooted out, like with every service the state has a monopoly on. If I call the cops because burglars are invading my home, do I really have to pay them even if they confiscated my firearm last week? In similar cases were the state is not involved, we would say no.

And a mugger enjoys your money

Enjoyment of the outcome of theft does not make theft no longer theft.

Doesn't make it not theft though, and what you said is flawed in two ways. One, a nation could exist and have law, defense, etc without taxation - considering that a nation is its people (who share culture, language, etc), and not whenever a group controls a certain area. The second is - only big gays want to live under a state/country.

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>Government needs money to defend the land against aggressors.
In that case, why does it tax between thirty and seventy percent of our income, not between five and ten percent, which would be more than sufficient for a powerful defensive military?

If you do have a sound argument best believe your book will be banned and you'll be thrown in jail for the rest of your life in a country that has "free speech"

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Its not immoral, if thats what youre arguing, go live in a sheep society next time, if you cant, bad roll of the dice. You seem to think force is immoral, morality is subjective, as is the use of force and the form it takes. You merely are in a society that allows more of it than you wish, you either need to accept the consensus or secede from said society.

History and the currently existing white ethnostates prove otherwise

There can be no true or real health of society or of the collective since neither is a separate entity.

However, the state of individuals within a society IS important. No one should ever argue otherwise, it's just dumb.
But - why are taxes related to this at all? Why are taxes necessary to there being a majority of healthy individuals (which leads to a healthy society).

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that video was terrible. I could shit out a better critique of democracy than that.

Sure, but that doesn't mean any of us have agreed to any contract. I wasn't born voluntarily.
The argument that I should just move doesn't work in 2 ways

One, it supposes that the state's claim of ownership over the land is legitimate.

Two, it fails to recognize that I literally cannot leave without needing to pay fines/money/etc. I am trapped in a place I didnt choose to be in unless I pay. Secondly, even if I leave the country, at least for the USA, I remain a citizen and have to keep paying taxes. It costs money to renounce your citizenship.

So Id have to pay just to leave and Id have to pay to get them to stop taking money from me even if Im not there anymore, all because I was born somewhere (not a contract I agreed to), all on the basis that the people within the State are the owners of the vast territory of USA.

So if my mugger buys me a sandwich the money he took from me, it isn't theft?

You're right! I don't believe in the imaginary social contract

I dont believe taxes are necessary to live in a civil society, and I cant see how being anti theft makes me undeserving of civility.

>hurr you ate the sandwich the mugger made for you after he took your money and also has made leaving his house extremely difficult and has made other food options also much harder to use or even will beat you for trying, so because you ate that sandwich this means you support his robbing you and its just the fair price

I believe that people own themselves and aggression against them is immoral.
But if your stance is that slavery is justified by it's simply being, then there's really not much i need to critique.

>he thinks "State law" and extortion aren't the same thing

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Yea the same as against "rent is theft" and "property is theft".

Taxation = Repersentation

It's as voluntary as anything else, you can take it or leave it.

Glad to see you made it through public school Civics class user

>As you can see, option #1 is only as viable as long as every one involved in the previous taxation system agree to the NAP and to voluntarily provide to the government, which is materially impossible. Otherwise, you'll be subject to total collapse and reintegration into a new system, whether it be one native to the state in question or foreign to that state.
So your argument boils down to defense of property being impossible without a state.

no because it is. i agree with it though.
only poor fuckers really pay tax anyway or at least, they are the ones that feel it

>If you believe taxation is theft then you essentially don't believe in the social contract.
Bingo.

>Don't walk on the sidewalks/roads that are paid for by taxes. Don't send your kid to public school paid for by taxes, don't call the cops when you're in trouble because they're paid with tax money.
I destroy your washing mashine, and point a gun at you whenever you go to a neighbor to wash your clothes. Also, I hit your kneecap with a crowbar whenever you so much as put your clothes in the sink or bathtub. You decide to come to me to wash your clothes after five weeks, and I demand a thousand dollars from me. There is nothing wrong with this conduct. Or, I come to you after five weeks, point my gun at you and tell you to stink, then demand a thousand dollars after stuffing your clothes in my washing mashine; there is nothing wrong with that, either. Not by your logic.

but property IS theft!

>Yea the same as against "rent is theft" and "property is theft".
>rent is theft
So demanding compulsory payments is okay because demanding payments after you made a voluntary contract is also okay?

>property is theft
So demanding the property of others is okay, because not sharing your property with others is also okay?

Why should I come up with an argument when I can just vote to tax you instead?

Democracy is just soft communism

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>So demanding compulsory payments is okay because demanding payments after you made a voluntary contract is also okay?
Staying on a given plot of land is voluntary so you have to pay rent and/or taxes yes.
>So demanding the property of others is okay, because not sharing your property with others is also okay?
Because the states sovereignty over it's territory is no different than any other property right.

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Its those principles that will continuously be the undoing of individualists, read The Prince. Your opponents can use techniques you consider impossible to utilize, and for which you have no protections from, to undermine you and your society. Effectively defeating your movement ideologically and physically if it goes that far.

>morality is subjective

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It is a necessary evil. Low taxes are the best we can get.

There are no such things as -isms, only survival. Taxing you makes my survival easier, so I support it.

"If taxation is theft then those wouldn't be two different words with two different definitions to describe two different things."
This literally destroys your retarded equivalence.

Proofs please? Also, not an argument.

>Staying on a given plot of land is voluntary so you have to pay rent and/or taxes yes.
Always, or only when whoever demands payment legitimately owns the land?

>Because the states sovereignty over it's territory is no different than any other property right.
It is, because the state has decreed its sovereignty over the territory. It has done nothing to homestead it, nor has it acquired it by voluntary means from anyone who has homesteaded it. Supposing it did so in the past, you'd have still have to establish that the present state can trace its sovereignty to this first sovereign, or else it would be an usurper.

>my entirely subjective opinions are objective