Well Sup Forums?

well Sup Forums?

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There's more overhead costs than the worker's paycheck.
>The cost of the machine
>The machine's maintenance
>The raw materials
>The loss of the materials that aren't up to quality
>Marketing
>Risk of not selling
Etc.
If you believe otherwise, then explain why doen't the worker simply set up his own factory?

>The cost of the machine
>The machine's maintenance
>The loss of the materials that aren't up to quality
this exists in a socialist system as well. What's your point?
>Risk of not selling
>marketing
Doesn't exist in a socialist system

>why doen't the worker simply set up his own factory?
Because he doesn't own the means of production. He only owns his own labor.

>marketing
one of the biggest jew lies of all
HAHA SURE let's waste all that energy into outdoing other people making the exactly same thing
and trying to sell our thing as the better
instead of putting all the energy into going beyond that

Who will build means of production knowing they will be expropiated?
>Doesn't exist in a socialist system
Neither does food.

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>Who will build means of production knowing they will be expropiated?
The workers who will collectively own them.

Tell me, what does the boss do that the workers can't do themselves. What does he do that justifies him having complete control over the MoP and all the value produced by it?

>Tell me, what does the boss do that the workers can't do themselves.
Explain me why arent you a millionaire right now?
Exactly that.

Why don't you entice the laborer then with higher wages in your factory?

because I don't own the means of production and I don't exploit the labor of my workers.

I down own a factory. Why doesn't the worker seize the means of production and take what's rightfully his?

>I down own a factory.
Exactly
>Why doesn't the worker seize the means of production and take what's rightfully his?
Cause what stops the army then from seizing the means of production? They have weapons. You've already decided that might makes right then and the only personal property is that which you can defend

Collectively owning something is an oxymoron

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You're being sold a free lunch dipshit. Marxist ideologies don't seek to destroy a hierarchy, just restructure it.

Why do communists hate people being able to eat and work for their own good.
Why are they so lazy they want to murder other people and steal their shit rather than try?

>the right cant mem...

But you could in a capitalist system. Frankly, all youd be adding in a socialist system is the government.

What is the point my dude? Sup Forums isn't going to change.

>This confuses the 16 year old bernout

shitty commie comic.
from employer's point of view:
>he agreed to do this for this price so i should totally raise the pay.
>there are no risks nor any other costs involved.
>never want to expand my business.
>if i can just give away money, i should totally do it.

If that stupid kid wasn't happy for his pay he'd retire or ask for a raise. it's not complicated.

yes goyim you cant refure this, you should overthrow the owners and take the payment of the production.... but you will need money to do it, so... how about a little loan?

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and just like that the commie leaves the thread.

Oh greatest ally, what could i do without you, please give me the loan you were talking about!

>Fuck you. I don't like you. I don't want to like or be like you. I don't want to work along side you. I don't want to be apart of your community.
Fuckin' commies get gassed first.

>The workers had the asymmetrical information to find a gap in the market, come up with a business plan, attain investments and take on risk.
Jesus christ kid just crack open a fucking book.

It's funny because the reporter guy concedes here that the worker doesn't in fact pay him $75 to tell him to work faster

>Cause what stops the army then from seizing the means of production?
What stops all the owners of all the factories from collectively deciding to pay all the workers less?
>You've already decided that might makes right
That's not what i've said. I said that the people who use the MoP should own them. We don't need a parasitic capitalist class taking a cut of the value produced for doing absolutely nothing.
>Marxist ideologies don't seek to destroy a hierarchy, just restructure it.
Yes, we want people to run things, not a few parasites
It's wrong to exploit people.

>Yes, we want people to run things, not a few parasites
ah, you must be one of those people who plan on doing management work in a communist utopia
to think that someone could be this naive

>ooga booga gib dose machines cracka
>But I employ you and pay you according to your level of skill! I pay the engineers more than you because they have the skill to fix the machines. If you knew how to fix machines instead of operate them I could pay you more!
>mufugga dis our factory now das rite
*bang bang*

One year later
>Factory destroyed
>machines stripped
>no one works there anymore

All because some dumb brain let thought that him picking stuff up and loading it was the reason why the economy continues to spin.

Communists are literally niggers

If the boss is a VERY EXPENSIVE overhead, workers coop should be gaining markets everywhere.
Have you any work experience? have you been in a coop? have you created a single job?
dipshits.

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You forgot
>The energy to power the machine and everything else in the factory
>The property and other taxes
>The many government agencies and fees
>The insurance needed to operate
>The multiple other things retards like this artist can never understand.

redpill me on how many labor warren buffet does. Does he actually produce billions of dollars work of products himself or did he just skim off the top?
>being this retarded
it's time to stop smoking weed Geert.
Everyone shares in the responsibility of managing the workplace.
>a glorified logistician should have control over the MoP while the people who actually do the work get paid shit wages.

Im convinced Sup Forums is a board of people who think they will be millionaires in the future.

I phrased that poorly. A collective society restructures hierarchy to the exact same end at best. At its worst the middle class is all but eliminated. There is no better way to be efficient with resources than if your own ass is on the line my man, and unless we're boarding the enterprise tomorrow I think infinite resources are a coming a bit farther down the line.

>Have you any work experience? have you been in a coop? have you created a single job?
Bosses don't create jobs. They skim off the top.

>>being this retarded
>it's time to stop smoking weed Geert.
Wow such a clever and well thought out reply guess I love communism now

Why doesn't the worker just buy his own machines and pay someone 25$/day to operate then? Why doesn't the worker just buy a printer and print himself a million dollars?

I had found, what people will buy, so i know, what to make.
I had found, where i can sell it.
I had found, who can make it.
I had organized entire process, otherwise one, who make it, wouldn't make it, wouldn't sell it, so people, who need it, wouldn't get it.

I love how Sup Forums justifies getting assraped and cucked by rich people. It's hilarious. Truly a board of class cucks.

This is pretty dumb, it's basically asserting there's little to no value in thinking up something, having the wherewithal to get the tools and staff necessary to produce it, teaching athem what to do, being successful enough with it to continue doing it and being successful at continuing to do it, just because these are ephemeral and abstract acts while it's easier to gauge the value of physical labour and the end product.

It's all well and good thinking the worker has a right to all that money, but if we ran a society like that, chances are nothing would get done. The scenario for this exploitation of workers only exists because the workers don't come up with good enough ideas themselves.

>Bosses don5 create jobs
Didn't know factories were a product of nature

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>Everyone shares in the responsibility of managing the workplace.
>expecting janitors to manage a nuclear plant
yes, good

because the worker doesn't have capital. He was born poor, and will likely remain poor the rest of his life.

Go start a business, nigger.

Then come back and re-read your idiotic comic.

>t. Disgruntled subway employee

I’d like extra lettuce please, also toasted, thanks

Those billions of dollars that Warren Buffet makes aren't just rubbed together and then multiplied. They have to be re invested in order to take affect. Buffet is a hedge fund manager. He often buys failing business and restructures them rather than liquidating them saving jobs. Capital is worthless if not properly managed. So what does Buffet do? He uses his finances to high competent people to continue what he started. What is immoral about any of that?

You were born with more than some dumb nigger in Sudan. To him, you’re just the bourgeoisie. Life ain’t fair

>it's basically asserting there's little to no value in thinking up something,
Thinking something up definitely has value, but value isn't produced simply by thinking. Value is produced by labor.
You're right. They're built by WORKERS.
who manages nuclear plants today? Not the guy who owns them, it's usually a middle manager. why can't the middle manager impart his skills on the entire staff?

>will likely remain poor for the rest of his life.

Only if he's a complete failure with no discernable skills whatsoever.

> They're built by WORKERS.
They were never designed by workers, workers had never decided to make factory in the first place. Workers wasn't even workers until one had come and gave them job for money.

Insulting myself and the argument instead of refuting it. It feels good knowing that you have given up.

>doesn’t know they’re called sandwich artists
I prefer carbohydration technician personally

You're just going around in circles, nothing you added to that pic challenged 's argument

.t larping neet

This

If you ever crack open basic economics by Thomas Sowell you would know that the owner is paid dead last and anytime he is in the red comes out of his pocket. Workers get paid less because you get a garunteed paycheck no matter how much you sell

Do workers come together of thier own volition and build it? Do they acquire all of the needed permits and supplies? Do they purchase the equipment needed to build the factory?

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Warren Buffet isn't a retard so he uses his mind to do his work. So he isn't doing victorian era labor that a robot can do.

Hey commie, come to Poland so we can show you our trees.

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>Serbian intellectuals

>It's wrong to exploit people.
you are not force to work faggot

>>a glorified logistician should have control over the MoP while the people who actually do the work get paid shit wages.
He earns more because he assumes the risks of the operation; the worker hasa guaranteed paycheck, the owner doesn't. If it all fails, the worker just need to find another jobs and that's that, the owner will be neck deep in shit for several years and lost decades of accumulated wealth.

>What stops all the owners of all the factories from collectively deciding to pay all the workers less?
Because they risk a competitor undercutting them
>That's not what i've said.
You think you didn't, but you did. The workers don't own the factory, if they seize it from the owner then you've already created the precedent that property rights are void, and whoever carries the biggest stick holds control

>encourages violence
>circles the same argument after being BTFOed

Its like arguing with a real life commie. God you idiots are insufferable.

The boss was likely in their situation too. Some working class people save up, have a bit of pride, and pull themselves out of poverty. Others are just complacent watching Netflix and spending their pay check on booze and weed.

>Me clean floors in food market
>Stoopid manager comes say I clean badl
>I say I provide cleanliness as a product of my work therefore I decide how good shall it be
>Me is fired
>Bring comunesm back

Why don't the workers open up their own factory then?

youtube.com/watch?v=mtwe7kXaTiQ

kek

So whoever sold him those machines should not have the right to sell him them? What kind of backwards logic is that fucking commies

Yep just roaming bands of workers running around building factories for fun

>what is entrepeneurship

He had to have a machine before he hired the first person, you faggot.

Communism is nothing but blind hatred, and it leads to torture, genocide, mass starvation, and every human rights abuse imaginable.

You should be fucking ashamed of yourself, and anyone who knows you should bash your fucking face in until you come to your senses.

Can you faggots stop actually replying to retarded commies and just make fun of them instead, its much more effective
Also sage

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>You're right. They're built by WORKERS.
because they GOT A JOB FROM THE OWNER

>Start firm
>Make product
>Don't tell anyone about the product
>Sell nothing
>Firm goes bankrupt

debating and defeating your enimies with logic and facts is much better than replying with shitty meme images
but still sage

not an argument.
I've already addressed this. 99% of people are too poor to start a business.
>They have to be re invested in order to take affect. Buffet is a hedge fund manager. He often buys failing business and restructures them rather than liquidating them saving jobs.
In other words he pays other people to do stuff, and collects the lion share of the value produced. What do you call that? EXPLOITATION.
>So what does Buffet do?
He gets people to do it for him.
You are probably middle class and will probably remain middle class for the rest of your life. Class mobility is very difficult.
>They were never designed by workers,
yes they were. The architect is a worker.
> Workers wasn't even workers until one had come and gave them job for money.
Everyone who isn't a capitalist is a worker. when man was primitive he hunted and gathered for subsistence. He did this without getting his value stolen.
There is no argument there. We're able to produce more than enough basic resources for everyone to live off of, yet millions starve every year.
They can if we abolish capitalism. We produce out of need and profit currently. What we as socialists seek is to abolish profits.
im not denying that he's smart, but the labor he does is not worth billions of dollars. No one should have that much money.
>if it don't work I die.
Yes I am.
>He earns more because he assumes the risks of the operation
The risk only exists because we live a capitalist system.
>the worker hasa guaranteed paycheck, the owner doesn't.
this doesn't make sense. If the company goes under no one has a paycheck.
>the worker hasa guaranteed paycheck, the owner doesn't.
woah the capitalist will have to actually get a job. Makes me think.

Fuck off austin

What is stopping you from setting up your own"socialist" leader-less factory with fellow commies ?

So if the owner fired all of his employees, he'd be making them a favor, right? Now they can just build another factory and machines, but this time, they'll belong to them collectively. What do they need the owner for?

>he pays other people to do stuff
>EXPLOITATION
what? are you actually retarded?

>can't the middle manager impart his skills
I know you're retarded, but there's something called not having time to waste to teach a hundred sub 100 iq people what's the safety protocol to organize a nuclear power plant.
Why do you think you have specialized jobs if everyone could just explain what to do to the first monkey that came around? Everyone would have to work way less if all the population could do every job, working shifts of 1h per day.

>They can if we abolish capitalism. We produce out of need and profit currently. What we as socialists seek is to abolish profits.

I bet you don't even know what a profit is, and what are the two types of profits.

>tfw bosses dont create jobs
are you hearing yourself man?

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This is a very subtle slippery slope.
We can make fun of commies BECAUSE we know how their arguments are full of shit and why.
But newer people here lurking, in the process of being redpilled, who might not have a deep understanding of economy, and even young commies themselves, don't have yet the argumenst to effectively debunk communism, and if they just see a bunch of anons making fun and memes but not engaging, they may believe we're also full of shit.
That's why communism must be throughoutly debunked on sight, no matter how repetitive it is.

>WAAHHHH I HAVE TO WORK BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT REFUSED TO GIVE ME GIBS WAHHHHHH LIFE IS SO UNFAIR WAAAHHHHH!

I'll ask again, what is so oppressive about consensually working for a businessman?

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funny how the people in power hate violence. Im sure the kings of old said the same thing to liberals when they revolted.
>The workers don't own the factory, if they seize it from the owner then you've already created the precedent that property rights are void
That sounds good to me. The people who use the MoP should own them. The biggest stick will be the workers.
> Some working class people save up
SOME How few nigel?
>Others are just complacent watching Netflix and spending their pay check on booze and weed.
Who's more complacent, the cigar smoking capitalist who does nothing all day yet is rich, or the poor laborer who works 8 hours a day and is still poor?
why not?

>Warren Buffet enters into a mutual contract with someone else and therefore they are exploited.
Wew lad I wish you well in your future endeavors, life is going to be hard on you. And there was a basic argument there. You just can't comprehend it because you've told factories and machines are magic.

Obviously the commies on here are mind-numbingly retarded, but what do you guys think of a N. European system where you allow businesses and people to do what they want pretty much, but then redistribute a good portion of that income to poors to keep them from dying in the street and having to take out a loan to get anti-biotics.
This system seems to work pretty well for the countries that use it. Capitalism is great, unless you don't have any capital in the first place, and this system offsets that.

The capitalists who own the factories.
The factory belongs to the workers. They don't need to start they're own factory.
>, but there's something called not having time to waste
there will be so much leisure time in a socialist society.
necessity creates jobs.

>Work all my life, gather money for proper education for my children
>Time passes, elder son graduates, starts his own business with my help and bank loans
>15 years passed, business turned profitable long ago, son have plans on going international now
>Spic manager from one of my son's smallest departments calls my son
>Asks to give him the department, building and workers included , because spic is managing the place, not my son
>Spic found dead in the forest week later
>Cause of death - fall from a helicopter

Yeah its almost as if the people in power hate violence because violence ensures the destruction of the means of production.
Murder kills the labor.
Sabotage kills the Land and Capital
Riots get rid of all customers as they are afraid of getting mugged and now there is no wages for the employee and profits for the owner.

>The biggest stick will be the workers.
When has that ever been the case?

remember, if you don't suck off rich kikes you are a gommunist who should take helicopter rides

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>ceos, coos, managers, warren buffet are different from their workers somehow
they handle regulation compliance, large scale marketing, large scale budgeting, large scale hiring, research and development, and risk management for all of those. its all work that only they can do, and it keeps the business competitive and paying wages
all of these problems magically solve themselves in a socialist system, where everyone decides arbitrarily how much they themselves get paid. this never becomes a problem in congress, so it shouldnt be one in socialism!

Didn't the businessman commission the factory to built on his own land?

Then assume there's no factory at all. Are you going to wait for a capitalist to create one for you (and therefore admit you need him) or gather enough people to build a factory on your own?

Nothing. You know other than the fact he's a lazy piece of shit that can't even handle a 40 hour workweek let alone the 60+ hour work weeks it takes to start a business.