The ends justify the means

>the ends justify the means

Do people really agree with this "person"?

Depends on the end and the means.

Name ONE(1) thing that he did wrong that can not be justified.

I'll wait.

deontological ethics are for gays and losers

lobotomised his queen. killed Kirounaru's clan.

Self-preservation justifies all means.

idk man. he dont deserve to be tortured like that

>lobotomised his queen
Sexy.

>killed Kirounaru's clan
Good.

>lobotomised his queen
try again pal. he did nothing wrong in this situation. Killing Kiroumaru's clan was essential for winning the war, they were all traitors.

Self defense. Pre-meditated self-defense.

Right it should have been worse

I don't get it, he didn't do anything wrong.

...

Did he have sex with Messiah? If so he truly enjoyed life.

IT WAS HIS TURN!

Saki save his life when he was still powerless. He then proceed to betray her since before timeskip by sell her out to Kiromaru(who however help Saki instead because he actually has honor and integrity). After the timeskip he kidnap, force-breed her friends and kill them, raise their baby to be a living weapon and intend to kill Saki/repeat the breeding process again. His cause may seem noble but his action reveal his wicked heart and lust for power.

He also annihilated/enslaved weaker tribe too without even bother to ask them if they want to join his "rebellion" peacefully.

Nothing he said was untrue.

maoist propaganda

>smartest scientist tribe believes themselves to be chosen and superior
>tribe launches conspiracy to dominate all other humans
>dumb them down
>dehumanize them
>make them forget their origins and ancestors
>squealer realizes the truth, mobilizes his people, fights back
>fights for freedom, self determination for the non-kantus
>loses but knows he fought for his people
>people remember him as a cruel genocidal maniac but in reality he was the good guy

Squealer is our guy, he's the hero of the story.

Very important question.

>He then proceed to betray her since before timeskip by sell her out to Kiromaru
I don't get it, he's just doing his job. Nothing is wrong here.

>force-breed her friends and kill them
He didn't force breed them. He doesn't even have the power to do that. He naturally let them give birth then killed them in their sleep.

>raise their baby to be a living weapon
How is this any different from Kiroumaru seeking out nukes to destroy the human race. Squealer was securing his weapon for the greater good of his people.

>He also annihilated/enslaved weaker tribe too without even bother to ask them if they want to join his "rebellion" peacefully
They had a democratic society formed by many, many tribes so that never happened. But he did kill tribes that didn't agree with his ideals and assimilate them into his own.

>the end of I become god king of ratkind and murder and enslave everyone justifies the means of murdering and enslaving everyone
It's a pretty compelling argument if you think about it.

when the end goal is killing all the humans what do the methods matter?

Squealer deserved it all for being the republican scum that he is.
God save the queen.

If the end is worth reaching,then the means are justified

Honestly squealer wasn't even the issue, it was the fucked up society the humans had that bothered me the most. And then the fucktard protagonists, despite knowing how horrible your end can be if you aren't a perfect little drone, still go on and have a child themselves.

There's a good chance our child will be torn apart by mutant cats
- B-b-but m-maybe things will have changed by then!

This assumed means and ends are interchangeable and means don't affect the end at all.

>"person"
Oy vey.

The fucking death penalty quote is the one that gets me. How can people see what he said and not realize the cantus "humans" are genocidal maniacs?

My favorite part in the end is how Squealer says that even if he dies, a new savior will eventually rise.

He Didn't send his soldiers off to die, they voluntarily risked their lives to defeat the cantus users because they wanted Independence.

the ends justify the means

I'll be honest, non-utilitarians kinda weird me out. People who get upset when you use moral math on certain things. The math is necessary. What kind of horrors are you going to allow to exist, because you didn't think we should use math?

In this case it's hardly a question. Obviously the war made sense, even if the plan had some major flaws, that only we can see.

>Your entire race is made up of humans who were turned into rat people and treated as garbage by a bunch of psychic assholes who will kill you if you step out of line or even consider the possibility that you should be equal to them.

You're goddamn right I agree with Squealer.

Cantus users should all be killed on the public square

>Humans deserve to LIVE!
>Vash man they are killing us by sucking up our power.
>HA HA LOVE AND PEACE BRO!
>Vash they dissected our sister
>LOVE
>AND
>PEACE
>Vash pls

Maybe try killing all the humans without slaughtering all the other colonies.

He did literally nothing wrong. The psychic humans were monsters who kept snapping and killing everything in their path. MC and friends were the villains.

There were no villains in this story, just ancestors of a bunch of people who did fucked up things, and ancestors of another bunch of people who also did fucked up things, but worse. Keep in mind why the molepeople exist as they do during the story in the first place.

Squealer did nothing wrong, as he was fighting for his people, the humans of old. The psychic people had long forgotten where these naked molerats had come from, so they also did nothing wrong. Their society for as long as anyone could remember was always like that, just as ours is today in regards to animals.

Cantus users are a goddamn blight. All of those people murdered and forced into a fate worse then death to build a fragile society that could shatter the moment a psycho is born. It's sickening that they won, I hope that cantus fuckers improve or squealers successor comes up and does what squealer failed to do

>squealer was wrong
cantus users literally are destroying their surrounding environment because of their leaking subconcious telekinetic powers, theyre also low IQ mouth breathers so that the society can be properly controlled by an elite group

Also being a queerat slave with even the most sympathetic of cantus users not giving a shit about your kind and mocking any apparent evidence of enslavement of your race while also knowing your race was radically metamorphed from regular humans into rat hybrids kinda puts you in a tough spot

>I hope that cantus fuckers improve or squealers successor comes up and does what squealer failed to do
Too bad that won't happen because in the end they did the exact same thing Sqeauler was trying to do and purged all Queerats aside from Kiroumaru's clan (and only because he begged them and betrayed his race). Can't believe that people will defend the Cantus cucks as the lesser evil.

#FreeMyNiggaSquealer

Squealer did nothing wrong

This show should have started on episode 12. What was the point of the first 11 episodes.

>the ends justify the means
He was referring to the show itself. 23 episodes or pure dogshit with a good ending.

Well, at least they're not consequentialist ethics.

Was it A1's fault that every character felt painfully bland or was it like that in the source material as well?

Squealer was the hero

Shinsekai Yori. The protagonists are stupid, the antagonist is the hero and does literally nothing wrong except lose.

Reminder that the descendants of you, I, all of us are Queerats in this future; the nonpsychic slaves, eternally oppressed. If you let the pretty cartoon people fool you into thinking that twisting the majority of humankind into a slave species was at all forgivable then you've been had.

I really don't know how anybody can find the psychics to not be utterly contemptible. Whenever queerats don't behave like groveling shit lickers to them, their magnanimous facade melts away and they proceed to treat what are truly fellow humans as less than scum, even before the rebellion. They deserved more than what they got.

>just as ours is today in regards to animals.
That's the problem
You don't sympathize with them and call them animals while the cantus users you consider humans.

A pretty lie is all it takes to manipulate you into slavery.

Leterally 1776 the animation.

The novel went into what Saki is trying to help their society improve. Like they figured out how peoples powers go berserk or how kids go insane with power.

When does the anime get interesting?

Bad story telling. Honestly felt they were just making it up as they went along and forgot about what came before most of the time.

Some ways into the second half.

The first half is incredibly fucking boring. They could have put everything important in the first twelve episodes into like four. To be fair the information conveyed is necessary; the recycled animation of rocks being tossed around is absolutely fucking not however. There's so much that feels like padding.

Episode quality in the second part also vastly depends on whether or not Squealer is in it and/or his presence can be felt.

Squealers plan was more or less the elimination of cantus users, while cantus users stick kept non cantus users alive so by that metric he was actually worse. He also betrayed cantus users that actually helped him. And some of the cantus users actually want to make things better for both of them, while he didn't.

However he was still perfectly justified.

He killed the beautiful people. The powerful, gorgeous psychics are the future of the human race, not the mud people. The Cantus users were right: The molerats are not human beings.

Are human beings monkeys? Of course not. We're a superior existence in every way. For the crime of lifting his hands against his betters, for actively plotting against them, he deserved to suffer eternally.

To iterate on this, the first half is just a fucking mess in general. It has good elements, but they'r largely drowned out by pointless plotlines and shite execution of said plotlines. The way the queerat introduction arc was handled, in my opinion, was completely wrong, in nearly everything that it did. Practically the only things relevant that it showed could have been done another way. The only actual good multi episode segment I can think of from the first twelve episodes is Shun turning into a karma demon. Everything else could have been easily cut down, cut out, or just done in another way entirely because it took fucking forever to say what it had to say.

I consider myself quite patient but Shinsekai Yori really fucking tested me. I've never seen a story go on so long without a fucking conflict.

Fpbp.

>superior
>living like middle age peasants
wew
That's what I'd call lack of foresight

I don't see the problem. There's nothing fucked up about the society, it's one where every human being is beautiful, powerful and immortal.

It's the God-Emperor's dream. Who cares about the slave caste?

Because they wanted to. They literally have no need of anything else, because every human being is a force unto himself! They can do all kinds of crazy shit like telekinesis, flight, wiping out whole armies and so on. With that kind of power, you can live however the fuck you want.

kami-sama please go

Attack Inhibition and Death Feedback say hello

Most people live their entire lives without killing another member of the human race.

They were added later because do whatever the fuck you want includes killing people, and with cantus you don't need that many users before everyone is dead.

Not when a kid being disciplined by his parents can kill them because of a bad thought.

It means that you can't "live however the fuck you want" if a psychopath shows up and decides you need to be dead. Being unable to defend yourself basically means you have absolutely no power where it actually counts.

It's such a problem that the autistic social order requires people to cull their children, and it still isn't a one hundred percent prevention.

WATASHI WUZ NINGEN N SHIET

Squealer's plan may have been too smart to win

Yes.

>superior
laughingningen.jpg

is this the messiah

hirogaru uchuu no naka CAN YOU FEEL

...

Squealer is basically robespierre

Nah he planned on raising his own Cantus Users and have them mutate Queerats and keep his society built the way he wants to.

They were shown to be taking more children to groom for that purpose afterall.

You mean Pol Pot?

Really the Cantus users had it coming. The council especially, they fucked up humanity. They destroyed it even themselves. They literally neutered themselves instead of teaching discipline.

This still cracks me up to this day.

So his end goal was to build a society just like the one he toppled, except he was the one in charge? That is just unoriginal.

But I think the point of raising cantus users was to raise them as weapons to secure his victory, not necessarily to let them live.

Rats don't count as people though.

This is exactly what it was. No doubt Sqeauler was going to murder all those shit Cantus users in their sleep once the war finished

his goal was to eliminate cantus users and ensure queerats were free

also queerats had democracy but yeah he would be ruler as long as he lived cause he would be seen as hero

>it's a filthy ayylmao apologist episode
Not again.

This is an American website.

Childhood is idolizing Squealer.

Squealer is 100% justified.

His only real crime was that he was a liar, but Kamisu is built on lies, so it doesn't really mean anything.

I don't think he is any better or worse though, even if he succeeded he still has cantus users at his disposal and the unending moral of the story is that the only way you'll ever truly be safe from the apocalyptic power of Cantus is to wipe them off the face of the planet.

Eventually one of his not-fiends would break the conditioning, and the cycle of asshole espers ruining things for everyone continues.

>Eventually one of his not-fiends would break the conditioning, and the cycle of asshole espers ruining things for everyone continues.
And even if not, it cycles back to the core of the issue: The kind of power Cantus offers cannot be controlled by society. The Scientists couldn't contain it and the Queerrats can't either.

Squealer was evil, but his opposition were far more evil.

He was entirely justified.

There is truth in the saying that one needs to become a monster in order to defeat monsters. Squealer had to do those harsh acts in order to even stand a chance against the cantus. Without them, they'd be crushed like all the other times a rat spoke up against the "humans".

Why contain it?

Please don't doubt the rat man's personhood, thank you.

underrated post.

they were slaves, and tried to fly to close to the sun.

humans are members of the great ape family, not the monkey family you mong

And he's saying humans are not monkeys. Your point?

His bloodlust doomed him morally and strategically. Had he simply employed his messiah as a defensive weapon instead of launching into outright genocide, he would have been able to preserve the freedom of his people and the Cantus users could do fuck all to stop him.

Yes because it's true. Face reality already.

You're right. I felt really angry when the rats raised their hand against their betters and destroyed the lovely little town. Especially considering the cheap, shitty, underhanded method they used to achieve their aims.
I think this show offended and upset me more than any other one that I've ever watched.

>Had he simply employed his messiah as a defensive weapon instead of launching into outright genocide, he would have been able to preserve the freedom of his people

Yeah for some years before she dies and they can't replace her.

They stole several babies from the hospital.

Oh you are talking about that time? They had to chased Saki down because they were going to find a weapon to defeat the messiah.