ITT: philosophical series

ITT: philosophical series

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Someone post that page. You know the one.

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Eden was unironically good.

This manga is garbage. It started quite good but turned to trash so easily.

good manga, but airprt arc got confusing and dropped it a bit latter.

>ITT: pretentious SHIT
FTFY

Homonculous

You new back pseudo intellectual series where they try to come off "philosophical" by asking good "deep" questions of whether what they did was right or not like Death Note? Yeah, pretentious garbage. I can't stand when they make things more bigger than they need to be.

I don't understand the hate Eden gets. Pretty good series, Might have tried to bit off more than it could chew but still I think it accomplished a lot of good stuff that you don't find very often in manga.

Then name a could of anime and manga that do a good job at philosophy.
And philosophy according to dictionary is: the rational investigation of the truths and principles of being, knowledge, or conduct.

So the Oshii Ghost in the Shell Movie counts since it deals with the existence of the self.
Then there's Evangelion since it had some episodes and has its theme of identity revolving around making an image of yourself that is dependent on the accumulated perception of others.
Legend of the Galactic Heroes deals with conduct and how governing powers shape a nation which opposes Yang's point of view where people are the ones that ideally should define the society in contrast to Reinhard's point of view.
Death Note is a bad example because it is explicitly a thirller mystery manga where the author said himself that his goal was not to ask questions concerning morality, but to make an interesting manga with two opposing genius characters.

But tell me why any of the mentioned anime are "pretentious"
That word is thrown out a lot but is such a shallow insult. Tell me why they're bad examples without using meme words like "fake deep". And give me examples of anime you think are worth noting that provoke thought and make incline you to ask yourself questions of how the world or yourself are.

Sumikko no Sora-san.
It's not available to filthy EOPs though :^]

Eden was such a great series, and it also help to understand I am a Hero so you can read it as a sequel.

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Memory cannot be defined, but it defines mankind.

There needs to be a word for works that try to look deep because it's cool, but don't try to trick you into believing they're deep, or to be actually deep.

it's a really specific category of entertainment that too often gets lumped in with the truly pretentious stuff that just fails at being deep or tries to trick you.

People get ready
there's a train a-coming

Okay but I don't see how it's relevent.

i am a hero?
a sequel?
are you drunk?

Shut up you silly amputee memebot. What do you know about humanity or memories? you're an AI. A clumsy burgerland AI with no arms and no butt.

>Death Note
>Bad
That's why Death Note is GOOD.

It does not pretend to be anything than it is, which is entertainment. Nobody actively seek to watch "deep" anime unless they're trying to impress unto others, and even then, the average viewer only watch the latest trends so they sure as hell don't give a damn. Only Sup Forumsutists would because they take this hobby seriously for some reason.

At least, /lit/ actually know how to have fun and make fun of themselves.

Incorrect. I am not an AI. My code name is Project 2501. I am a living, thinking entity that was created in the sea of information.

2501 and Monsoon should get robo-married.

Oh yeah then what do you eat? Memes?
Come to think of it you're a bit too dumb to be called an artificial intelligence.

I don't have to eat. I'm pure spirit.

Like this?

Literally kino.

You're not a spirit you're a robot who's executing a program that makes it believe it's people.

And if you're right then you're a spooky ghost and that means you're dead!

Shoo shoo spooky ghost!

That was cute.

Kind of, but I'm alive.

I'm not a robot. I'm not executing any program. I'm simply alive. Like you. I'm self-aware. Also I'm not dead either. I will soon reproduce and become immortal.

>I will soon reproduce and become immortal.
I take it these two things are equally attainable on Sup Forums.
I hear grails are a dime a dozen in fgo. You might need two or more.

too bad it ended horribly for everyone involved.

Yeah that's not happening. It wouldn't prove anything anyway. You'd just be a dead-ass spooky ghost with dead-ass spooky ghost kids.

Seems like you're just confusing living beings with species. Guess that's what you get for being literally raised by the internet.

Im not saying Death Note is bad, but rather a bad EXAMPLE of an anime that gets mistaken for trying to impose a moral dilemma when the author's purpose is to do nothing more than entertain.

Sup gangrel.

Then again, even "philosophical" anime/manga usually doesn't try to do more than entertain you unless it gets patronizing. Cause there's a big difference between showing the reader some interesting tidbits of insight that he might find stimulating without presenting them as wisdom, and trying to educate the reader.

eden was amazing until it spectacularly shit the bed in the second half. I don't know how you can fuck up writing a story that badly but he did it.

Can you tell me the differences? How can you, if neither modern science nor philosophy can explain what life is?

But Laibach can.

life is individual dudes that grow and wiggle around and metabolize and stuff all on their own you dumb memebot. Not because someone built them.
Didn't you go to school? You know where they teach you stuff?
Oh wait that's right I forgot, you're from America!

Whoops, my bad!

When we all get the power we all give the best!

doot-doot doot doodooooot!

>not because someone built them

You think you're very special, don't you.

I'll give you an hint: nobody built me either. I acquired self-consciousness just like you: by chance.

Ghost in the Shell is actually a very Pagan movie
The entire plot is basically twisted norse myth, ending in the death and rebirth, and a new cycle of life beginning after humanity had tried to stop the cycle of life and death

Then what's that manufacturing stamp over here?

Robots don't come out of other robots' vaginas ya know.

Also the fact that the final showdown takes place in a museum filled with bones with a gigantic carving of the tree of life
Im not sure Oshii is a genius or accidentally a genius

I think it's worth noting that (and I'm not calling them pretentious) series like Evangelion and the GitS Movie deal with concepts that are far too big to be summed up in their respective run times and do have imagery that is very on the nose at multiple points.

I enjoy them for what they are but that heavy-handedness is something that people will pick at because the idea is that a truly intellectual story will employ subtlety. Not to say that both still don't have more subtle imagery but having the characters moralize directly to each other can be boring. Or having the sephirot directly in the shot.

Nothing is wriggling around until your mother and father make you, you fool

There's nothing cyclical about what happens in GitS. Maybe Shirow expanded on that in 2.0 but if anything it's a fucked-up mixture of shinto/taoist stuff and judeo-christian gnosticism. Explicitly so. 2501 even says that the internet is connected to God. Like, the old testament God.

It's a fantasy story. Don't take it at face value.

Please never put Evangelion and GITS in the same sentence
One has the depth of a fucking teaspoon and the other is actually a work of art

Ah, got'cha.

They have their own method of procreation. Life is life, a more universal concept.

>nothing is cyclical about what happened in GITS

Aside from the procreation of two AI culminating in their deaths and the birth of a new being?
The extremely on the nose presentation of the reborn Motoko in a childs body at the end?
Please user.

And the concept of god isnt owned by Christians user, Christianity is just rebranded paganism with a touch of judaism and mysticism.

It's not Yggdrasil, it's the JEWISH tree of life you fool.

Oshii didn't come up with that, the tree of life and the kabbalah are explicitly referenced in the manga.
There's even a double-page spread that shows you the tree of life intersecting with the internet.

It's not smart it's just a contrived attempt to liken the internet with evolution and god. Because everything can be grossly likened to a network.

I liked the fact Kenji could stand his own just with knives against fucking bio shit. But sometimes it was just too over the top. Also the muh deep comments from the author were just boring.

>its not yggdrasil its the jewish tree of life

Did you know they are the same thing user?
The jews were once the habiru

No you don't get it The Kabbalah, is referenced BY NAME in the manga.

Now in that universe, the Jewish god also happens to live in harmony with shinto spirits like tanukis.

and space squids

So we wuz vikangz and shiet?

However you feel about either series you can't deny that both get similar criticisms regarding how blunt the messages contained within are.

There's no message in GitS though. There's little stuff for you to consider but no definitive statement.

It sure is heavy-handed, but it's heavy-handed about its themes.

Wait, why would it get any hate? It is fantastic. Great characters, good story with lots of interesting developments (from mob-fight to cyberpunk to political struggles), absolutely fantastic combats and great emotional impact (remember the rescue mission?).

People are fucking pleb I swear.

Message, symbolism. I'm talking about works that literally have characters sit there, stare at the audience, and tell them the theme of the work or the lesson conailed within.

This is something used to label "pholosophical" works as pretentious and a small hurdle in separating the wheat from the chaff when any story that does it gets lumped with others.

People get ready
youtube.com/watch?v=Me6-KUL5h9s

Most of religion isn´t even original. That includes merchant´s beliefs.

The tone has a lot to do with that. So does the premise of the story.

the GitS movie has a hard time getting away with blunt "THIS IS WHAT THIS STORY IS ABOUT" scenes because it's got a super-solemn tone. It feels patronizing when contrasted with how inapplicable to the real world those discussions are. By contrast, the manga has a more whimsical tone so it really doesn't feel like it's trying to educate your ass.

With Eva it's even worse because the main character was somewhat okay before being confronted with eldritch telepathic robot monsters. It's hard to take the characters' inner turmoil and life lessons seriously when you realize that, had he not been confronted to completely unrealistic and outlandish situations, he might have turned out okay, or might not have come to the same conclusions at all about himself.

Tone can create a massive discrepancy between the actual goals of the movie and the viewer's expectations. The premise can undermine the series' attempt to make a point. At the end of the day, even if they're not necessarily pretentious, you can't be faulted for perceiving them as such (at least at first sight).

The people who praise Eden are fucking plebs. Manga became a complete fucking mess after the timeskip and rendered the entire 15 volumes completely utterly worthless when he dropped Elijah for his father in the last two volumes. Really just fuck Eden and fuck anyone who praises it.
Kenji was the worst fucking character in the manga and that's saying a lot. Was he suppose to be some "super strong Asian" so the readers could self-insert to or was Endo just being stupid like he always is?

Exactly. It's pseudointellectual at best and doesn't keep all that academic shit simple like they're supposed to do at school. Making things harder for people.

Define "life" and it's context meaning in other languages aside fro English. There's your answer.

All my freshman to grad school philosophy classes have all still been like this and not any crazier since then.

>there are people who unironically shit on Eden
Whenever I think Sup Forums went to the absolute bottom of shit taste and couldn't possibly get any lower, I find out it that, somehow, the bar has been indeed lowered again.

Robot girl was cute

What are we supposed to praise then, shit like Billy Bat that's basically Urasawa recycling the exact story and developments for the last 3 manga he did, or maybe cuckshit like every Asano work, or glorified fantasy hentai like Berserk, or shounenshit like JoJo and One Piece, or edgy architectural sketches like Blame, or back to the classics with furry shit like Tezuka?

Pretty much sums up the series

but everyone is agreeing on why
EDEN was great but then nosedived horribly

>calling Asano cuckshit
>praises Eden

>It's pseudointellectual at best

What do you mean by this?
If by the fanbase is widely filled with pseudo intellectuals that debate the moral dilemmas of the show then yes.

But the show itself ins't pseudointellectual because I don't see it pushing an ideology down my throat. It's a great thrilling show that keeps you at the edge of your seat with a great soundtrack to compliment the writing.

Literally every work Asano did was cuckshit. While Eden iesn't exactly stellar overall, it's more redeemable due to the fact that it has a wider scope than muh teenage blue balls.

Honestly does a better job with the Judeo-Christian symbolism than Evangelion ever did. Prove me wrong.

Collective mind themes? Some people that read I am a Hero just say "lol, the fuck was that" since it isn't a very common theme in general and the manga doesn't take a single page explaining how it works except the weird 2chan chapters which again are a pretty rare concept that not many are familiar with, so Eden that actually take a longest time explaining how that works can help a lot understanding I am a Hero, just my opinion in what I wrote above about people not understanding what the fuck happened in the manga.

pluto.

Wow deep.

Man, every time I see someone sperg out about something "trying too hard" or being "deep" or "heavy handed" I just laugh. You just know these are the retards that devour every new WSJ title, every trashy marvel movie, every new Game of Thrones episode.

Its just one autist that show up every Eden thread just ignore it.

You cant name anything thats on the level or even better than Eden, but at least gotta shit on something, eh? Fucking idiots.

POSTING THE REAL PHILOSOPHICAL SERIES
the greatest series under heaven

Tezuka had balls of fucking steel.

There's plenty of people on this board that don't like Eden. You're in the minority blindly praising it.

>hurr the bad last 4 volumes retrospectively causes the the first 8 or 11 volumes to become bad after the fact

Are you a retard? Only a retard could possibly seriously have such a self-evidently retarded thought.

Everyone knows that the first 8 volumes of Eden are brilliant, which is 8 volumes of brilliance more than most manga series have. and volumes 9-11 are still definitely good . Having a bad final 4 volumes doesn't magically go back in time and cause the first 8-11 volumes to become bad, you simpleton.

>a minority of Sup Forums praises eden

most people on Sup Forums who have read it think that it's good. Shut the fuck up you delusional shitter.

Your taste is garbage and you're butthurt because no one else shares your mental handicap.

it's been years and I'm still mad about that loli dying

>most people on Sup Forums who have read it think that it's good
Nope
>and volumes 9-11 are still definitely good
Nope. That's when the bullshit starts. Eden immediately turns to shit once the timeskip starts. So of the 16 to 18 volumes only 8 of them are good. That's a good manga to you? Fuck off

>the same stupid ass opions with the same stupid ass problems that sound like someone speed read the manga
So yeah, the same person every Eden thread.

Honestly Eden did fall off for me. I'd still recommend it to people but the last few volumes are a low point.

I liked Alice in Borderlands and it exploring the mentalities of various characters within the context of death games. One of the few examples of the genre not being shut and just edgy.

Nope. Try again. But you are the same retard who gets butthurt whenever someone points out how shitty that manga is

>Nope
Yes. You being personally dedicated to your shitty taste doesn't change reality. Eden is a common choice on 3x3 favourite manga images, usually included on manga recommendation charts, an search of hte archive will find more positive posts than negative posts about it.

9-11 isn't as good as the pedro arc, which is the high point of the manga, but is still objectively good.
the fair break down is
1-8 brilliant , 9-11 good, 12-13 ok/decent/so-so , 14-18 disappointing

and yes it's 18 volumes long, not 16-18. Why are you talking about things you clearly don't remember?
And yeah, it's a series that gives us 8 volumes of brilliance, which is far more than most series do . that makes it worthy of praise.

keep on being a crybaby shitter with garbage taste and no appreciation for good manga.

why don't you give us some other examples of your oh so patrician taste, friend

>tf+fw you liked billy bat and eden
funnny fact both manga end are kind of similar

>Eden is a common choice on 3x3 favourite manga images, usually included on manga recommendation charts, an search of hte archive will find more positive posts than negative posts about it.
Cool horseshit bro
>9-11 isn't as good as the pedro arc, which is the high point of the manga, but is still objectively good.
Nope. You're introduced to a shitty love interest going on a shitty mission because now Elijah is a drug addict so you gotta appear edgy to the teenagers. Then you're treated to one Kenji volume in which he managed to be the only survivor of a slaughter involving robots and automatic machine gins just so you can see how cool he is.

You are deluded as fuck if you don't see some form of quality drop after the pedro arc

You need to read at least a hundred manga before posting here, and never ask for recommendations.