Honestly how come Shishio didn't get damaged from this?

honestly how come Shishio didn't get damaged from this?

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he had child porn under his bandages to soften the blow

Asspull.

As a matter of fact by that point Shishio's plot armor just shot up so absurdly I couldn't take the end of the arc seriously at all anymore.

I attribute it to the fact that Sano's hand was a jigsaw at that point.

Shishio was the most powerful character in the entire series, why do you even question him?

Sanosuke's hand was basically dust in the shape of a fist at that point, and some bullshit about Shishio not feeling any pain due to MUH BURNZ.

Anime. The cancelled reboot literally has someone catching a bullet barehanded in the second chapter.

But Kenshin slashes him a dozen times. If Kenshin was using an ordinary sword he would've easily won against Shishio, Saito, and everyone else.

He broke his fist on the punch.

Sano had messed up his hand fapping to child porn the previous night.

Shishio had shown that he was smart enough to figure out how to counter moves that he had seen before. Not only did Shishio explicitly see Sanosuke perform the Futae no Kiwami at the Purgatory, but Anji was one of his top henchman- he may have even known how the Futae no Kiwami was performed.

Plus, the entire last arc in the manga dealt with how badly Sanosuke's hand was damaged in the fight with Anji, so it's unlikely that he was in a condition to perform the Futae no Kiwami at full power when he attacked Shishio.

WELL YEAH

No he's not.

nigga has 9th deegree burns still fucking owns

>Hiko
>Enishi
>Soujiro
>Kenshin
>Aoshi
He ain't even top 5.

Because Shishio wasn't a pathetic lolicon like the Monk Anji.

He utterly humiliated Aoshi. Even if he was injured at the time, Sanosuke had better luck than he did.

Plus, I never really got the sense that Enishi was actually stronger than Shishio. It's just that Kenshin wasn't mentally equipped to face him, and Enishi had trained himself to have a style that hard countered Kenshin's.

> But Kenshin slashes him a dozen times

That was after Shishio literally ate his shoulder and went Allahu Akbar on his ass, THEN proceeded to fight Saitou, Sano AND Aoshi, mopped the floor with everyone, giving Kenshin the chance to recover and try again.

1 on 1?

Either him or Houji could simply cut Kenshin´s head while he was out cold.

> He ain't even top 5.

That´s bullshit and you know it,

The pedo author literally uses Word of God through Sanosuke to make it clear that Enishi is weaker than Shishio.

Only guy who most likely would beat the mummy one on one was Hiko.

Wasn't Kenshin shitting on him until he started fighting dirty? He literally tricked Kenshin and stabbed him. That's some "strength" right there.

They canceled it? Thought they were just slow in translating it.

Look at this stupid edgelord

> Wasn't Kenshin shitting on him until he started fighting dirty?

Either reread or rewatch the fight. Shishio defeats Kenshin without taking a single hit.

It´s only on Round 2 (that would never happened if Kenshin´s allies didn´t keep buying him time to recover) that Kenshin manages to hurt the mummy.

To be fair, Kenshin almost passed out on the way to the fight from the wounds he got earlier. It was bad enough that even Yumi pitied him enough to give him the option to leave.

>It's just that Kenshin wasn't mentally equipped to face him, and Enishi had trained himself to have a style that hard countered Kenshin's.
I literally thought that was the point. Wasn't it Soujiro that even said it in the last arc, Enishi was certainly very skilled, but nothing beyond that?

Just from the thumbnail I thought that was Aoshi.

> To be fair, Kenshin almost passed out on the way to the fight from the wounds he got earlier. It was bad enough that even Yumi pitied him enough to give him the option to leave.

Yeah, the whole thing was far from your conventional "protagonist and villain fight at full strenght" final battle. It´s all a huge mess full of "what ifs", including Saitou´s surprise attack (countered with Shishio´s bullshit adamantium Naruto headband), Shishio´s time limit, etc.

Some scenes do portray Shishio as monstruous instead of "lucky", though. Damage to Sanosuke´s hand aside, Shishio did tank a Futae no Kiwami to the face, countered Saitou´s and Aoshi´s best techniques (he literally showed his back to Aoshi and STILL owned him) and got back up from a technique that knocked out Hiko, Aoshi and Soujirou (yeah, he would have died if it was a real sword, but I´m using the comparision to the other characters to make a point about his endurance).

>why does the jobber character job to the main villain?

I would point out that it's canonically the most destructive technique Kenshin has seen. He says it twice, during Sanosuke's fight with the dumb arm shield guy and the dumb twin guy.

100% an asspull. But Sano is designated jobber. At least he got his own volume near the end where he beats the shit out of 200 men by himself.

Please remember that Enishi could fly by double jumping.

>At least he got his own volume near the end where he beats the shit out of 200 men by himself.

Honestly the best part of the Jinchu arc.

Hiko Seijuro solos the entire cast.

>and Enishi had trained himself to have a style that hard countered Kenshin's.
Why do people still say this? No, he didn't.

Soujiro? He wasn't around for the last arc.

>Hokkaido arc was going the Reflection route with the leprosy and jap-sino war parts along with cyborg opponents
F

It's been a bit since I've re-read it, but I distinctly remember them calling out the fact that Enishi's stance was too low to the ground for Kenshin to get a clean hit with the Amakakeru Ryu no Hirameki, and therefore any battoujutsu, which was Kenshin's bread and butter.

Kenshin would have been so much better had he stopped being a moralfag for the last fight and just murdered. But instead, moralfag.

The prequels were great until he became moralfag yet again.

Oh cool, a powerlevel thread.

Was Kenshin actually stronger than Soujiro?

In the last fight, Saitō mentions that pretty much every move Kenshin has is countered by Enishi's. Enishi says earlier that he and Kenshin are pretty much dead even anyway, except that he can jump higher (the writing is worse that I remember)

The name of the chapter is literally Hiten Mitsurugi Ryuu Completely Defeated. That's seems pretty indicative overall.

He means Saito

I haven't read the series in years and have a concussion, what said.

if it was a fight without secret techniques and no talking then no, Soujiro is just that insane fast and was beating Kenshin

but due to Kenshin being able to mind fuck him and his secret technique he won

while Enishi had a style that counters Kenshin, it's important to note that it also only worked because of Kenshin's clouded guilt

in their final fight when Kenshin is of clear mind he destroys Enishi. So in short if Enishi tried his counter style on a different Hiten Mitsurugi master it would fail

Reminder that Kenshin literally would have been dead without the soundwave secret technique bullshit thing.

>his secret technique
So with techniques in the mix, Keshin is stronger than Soujiro?

I need to sleep now, but if the thread is still up in a few hours I'll come back to you with counter-points.

How strong is the Nerves of Insanity really? In the one chapter where he has it, Kenshin literally can't even fight back. Saito says that it's because hiten mitsurugi ryu is useless against it.

>Saito says that it's because hiten mitsurugi ryu is useless against it.
No man, for some reason it has a secret technique that would literally only be useful against people with super hearing

> Hiko Seijuro solos the entire cast.

In a sequence of isolated 1 on 1 fights, I agree. The way powerlevels worked in this series, no character could really win if 3 or 4 other characters ganged up on him.

> Was Kenshin actually stronger than Soujiro?

Yeah, cuz messing with the opponent´s head is also a skill, and Kenshin´s Talk no Jutsu is better than Naruto´s.

> but due to Kenshin being able to mind fuck him and his secret technique he won

That was the point. Soujirou was a nutcase and Kenshin is a war veteran. He also mindfucked Aoshi in the previous fight.

> Reminder that Kenshin literally would have been dead without the soundwave secret technique bullshit thing.

To be fair, Enishi´s MUH NERVES power up was bullshit even for the author´s standards of wacky fighting styles

I love how primal Shishio can be, like when he fucking bited Kenshin's shoulder.
I wanted to see more of Makoto being a complete beast in battle.

Fuck off, Okada

>mindfucked
That was literally plot armor up the ass in both those cases.
There's no way in terms of skill or power that Kenshin was stronger than Soujiro, much less Aoshi.

you're forgetting that Kenshin is always fighting handi capped with a reverse blade, and that in his fight against Aoshi he was holding back as he wasn't trying to beat Aoshi but talk sense into him

It's what you call COMPOSURE

> I love how primal Shishio can be, like when he fucking bited Kenshin's shoulder.

one of the best scenes in the entire manga. People in this thread who go "oh, Kenshin would have won easily with a normal sword" or "Soujirou was stronger than Shishio" really need to reread the fight.

I blame the fact that most anons barely remember the details from watching the anime many years ago

There's no way Soujiro was stronger than Shishio.

Reminder that Kenshin's fight with Enishi is the only fight where Kenshin's reverse blade sword is not a factor. Kenshin doesn't land a single hit till the final page.

Actually, who was the bigger mental case between Seta and Enishi?

> There's no way in terms of skill or power that Kenshin was stronger than Soujiro, much less Aoshi.

Soujiro maybe, but Aoshi?

Kenshin didn´t even want to use his sword against the guy, the whole purpose of the fight was just surviving blows until his words could get through that thich chuuni skull.

And Soujiro was fast, but skill and power? He wasn´t more experienced or stronger than Kenshin (both of them had girly builds).

Also, Kenshin fails to finish off Enishi and nearly collapses. The fight is stopped by outside events.

FUTAE NO KIWAMI AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

> Actually, who was the bigger mental case between Seta and Enishi?

Soujirou, easily. Enishi was functional enough to become a mob boss.

Without Shishio, Soujirou would have probably killed himself (either before or after killing his abusive relatives).

> Reminder that Kenshin's fight with Enishi is the only fight where Kenshin's reverse blade sword is not a factor.

Round 1 against Shishio

fpbp

Everyone here has tried this at least once.
Don't lie.

I thought it was overall "powerlevel" differences.

Even a show that was technique oriented caves to power levels cliches sometimes.

Enishi seemed to get stronger the more fucked his head was while for Seta it was the opposite.

Kenshin's amakakeru packed a bigger punch than Sojiro's shuntensatsu. It made the difference because both ougis were equally fast.

That's not how it works. Statements made in-universe do not count as word of God.

I can't take anything about that fight seriously thanks to all the Nico videos with the dubs.

someone post a guide to see which chapters of the animu i should avoid

Alright.

Enishi's style was not made to counter Kenshin's. Chapter 202 dedicates some panels to talk about the origins of Enishi's style in great detail and the Hiten Mitsurugi-Ryu has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Pirates came from Japan to raid Chinese coastlines, Chinks couldn't do anything because all they had to defend themselves with were shitty spears while the Japs had proper swords. so a Chink general adapted those as standard weapons and taught his soldiers how to use them in tandem with Chinese martial arts. Enishi found a book about all this in the house of a family he killed.

He taught the style to himself and added some personal twists to it.

And that's about it. Nothing about Enishi's fighting style is related to Kenshin's, at least in terms of their history. So, if Enishi manages to counter any of Kenshin's moves, it's because of two reasons:

1 - He observed the move beforehand and so was prepared for it.
2 - He was simply that good of a swordsman.

Now, I'm not saying he's stronger or weaker than anyone else, I'm just enlightening you on some shit.

Here's some more pages for emphasis.

...

>There's no way Soujiro was stronger than Shishio.
Well, let's see:

>Kenshin got a full hit on Shishio with the Kuzuryuusen, and even with a bunch of slower moves
>Kenshin couldn't even touch Soujiro until they decided to go for an ougi clash
If they were bloodlusted, Soujiro could teleport behind Shishio and cut him in two in a moment.

It's the same for the Soujirou fight.

Hiko > Kenshin > Enishi >=Soujiro >= Shishio > Saito > Aoshi > Sano

>Only guy who most likely would beat the mummy one on one was Hiko

Soujiro would've creamed his ass if he weren't so autistic.

Misao > other girls

Shishio honestly isn't that inpressive once you consider that everyone he fought was a walking corpse.

GUREN
KAINA

Dunno man, I'd say Soujiro is stronger. Enishi is nothing but brute force.

Now that Watsuki is going to jail, someone who knows Japanese should send him a letter asking him who would win etc. It's not like he is going to have much to do in prison.

Does Soujiro deserve his own spin off done by another artist?

That's a lie. Enishi's swordsmanship is literally equal with Kenshin's.

>muh sister
>muh vengeance
Eishi was such a edgy piece of shit. After we got Shishio who was a perfect foil to Kenshin, we had to put up with his weak reasoning for all the terrible shit he does.

That's what you get when you got editors and other shit pressuring you.

How are the movies? I hear there the one good anime to real life movie adaptation.

>Monk was a lolicon
>Watsuki starts dressing as a monk after Kenshin
Oh shit, the clues were there all the time!

They're surprisingly good. The second one isn't great due to falling into the usual adaptation problem of trying to cram too much into too little space, but the first and third handle it perfectly. Plus, the sets and fight choreography are fantastic.

A speed boost plus literally weaponized autism. Superhuman heightened awareness. The way Enishi describes it, he could probably see the Flash coming at him.

>That's not how it works. Statements made in-universe do not count as word of God.

It really depends on how it is portrayed. When a character makes a point and no one disagrees, that´s a way of conveying information to the reader.

Why would the author put that dialogue there unless he wanted us to compare Enishi and Shishio? He could just stay quiet about it and we would assume Enishi was stronger because of shonen logic, but instead he chose to make it clear that Shishio was overall stronger while Enishi was just a tough matchup for Kenshin (who was also feeling guilty and shit). The author thought that was an important point to make, that´s why he wrote the scene that way instead of going "OH NOES THIS NEW GUY IS KENSHIN´S STRONGEST OPPONENT EVAAH".

But Sanosuke said during the first fight. Enishi looked way stronger in the second one, even before using the nerves thing. All the statement tells us is "he isn't stronger than Shishio the way he is performing right now".

>muh stronk eat weak
>muh social Darwinism 101
Shishio was just a generic bad guy. He had a boring motivation for the shit he did and the "feh, nothin personnel" personality to match. At least Enishi had genuine characteristics.

>Why would the author put that dialogue there unless he wanted us to compare Enishi and Shishio?
Forgot to answer this. To me it really looked like the intention was to cast doubt whether Enishi had something else up his sleeve to justify his confidence.

> If they were bloodlusted, Soujiro could teleport behind Shishio and cut him in two in a moment.

Please. Soujirou couldn´t even cut the much smaller Kenshin in two after teleportig behind him. We know he was already "subconsciously holding back" at that point or some shit, but wouldn´t it be even worse if he fought his saviour and father figure?

Soujirou´s whole gimmick, other than his insane speed, is how he´s unpredictable because of his lack of feelings, but as soon as he became bloodlusted Kenshin could read him easily.

Makoto showed similar skill in provoking his opponents and then countering their best techniques (he reacted to both Saitou´s and Aoshi´s best attacks at point blank).

Also, if Shishio could block Kenshin´s ougi (he only got caught by the bullshit unavoidable blackhole no one in the manga had an answer for), he could also block Soujiro´s.

FOOTAE NO KEEWAMEE AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

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>When a character makes a point and no one disagrees
When that same point is made before an event that contradicts it, then it isn't really conveying anything aside from a character's over or underestimation, and this was the case since Sano made that statement before either Enishi or Kenshin got serious. You really think a judgement about a character's strength could be made from a few seconds of sparring? Of course not. The author wasn't trying to convey what you think he was.

Nigga, Shishio was a walking corpse himself.

ＧＡＴＯＴＳＵ・ＥＲＯＳ・ＴＩＭＥ

Soujirou´s autism is also his greatest strenght. If he was only "faster" than Kenshin, the fight would have been much easier. Shit, as soon as his feelings came to the surface, Kenshin could instantly read his moves, speed became irrelevant.


Dude, it´s a shonen. If the point of that whole fight was "oh noes this guy is so cunning, what an asshole, he´s taking advantage of his injured opponents", we would have tons of internal monologue ( "If only I wasn´t so tired...!") and onlooker´s commentary ( "Shishio is not that strong, but his strategy worked perfectly!"). You know it´s true, and it wouldn´t be subtle at all.

Instead, we got fight after fight of Shishio being portrayed as a monster.

The author could easily write Sanosuke´s internal monologue going "Oh no the Futae no Kiwami didn´t work because my hand is hurt".... same with Saitou and Aoshi, "Oh no he could only block my best attack because I´m feeling weak right now"... instead, we just get Shishio taking their best shots and coming out on top again and again while Houji creams his pants and goes "BANZAI SHISHIO SAMA".

One of the themes of the manga is that fighters can go beyond their limits if they are motivated enough, so there´s no reason to believe everyone was performing "weaker versions" of their attacks if the author gave us no reason to assume that.